whats your selection of a decent combat /defensive knife?

grumpyvette

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OK what do you guys feel is the best value in a knife you would consider useful enough to trust your life to if forced into a combat situation with only a knife.
it must be small enough to carry on a daily basis (possibly concealed)yet durable enough to use under high stress without any potential for failure or breaking, thus any folder is at a huge dis-advantage in my experience.
as with most things theres a balance that needs to be struct and compromises made!

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/basic-fighting-knife-design.13761/
yeah! I'm fully aware that your chances of needing the skills required are very remote at best ,but having those skills is like having several fire extinguishers around the shop!, you hope you'll never need them but if you do you'll need them very badly and be glad you had them handy
obviously theres the factors of concealment and length and the blades ability to slice, chop and stab and its defensive design,it generally helps to set a few parameters or limitations and define carefully the basic characteristics that will be required in selecting the best tool for the potential use, you have in mind...

characteristics in the guard blade configuration and handle , design that allow you to manipulate it quickly that all figure into its utility,
obviously some factors are counter productive too some goals,
and help on other goals ,so a compromise needs to be reached.
a good combat knife must be small and short enough to carry easily but large enough to be effective as a weapon, any blade less than about 3.5" in length makes it less potentially leathal, blades over 10"11" may make it very difficult to conceal or carry.
how many of you gentlemen would SERIOUSLY consider a folder for use as a back up weapon if you actually thought you might be forced into using a blade and especially, ESPECIALLY if your life depended on winning in a knife fight.
(yes I fully admit the chances are nearly non-existent in today's world, yet I,ve always been fascinated by tools weapons and their correct use!)
Honestly I've busted enough folders just field dressing a few dozen elk and deer too no longer even consider using one in the field.
OK what do you guys feel is the best value in a knife you would consider useful enough to trust your life to if forced into a combat situation with only a knife. obviously theres the factors of concealment and length, and its ability to be used as a weapon, but you can,t exactly conceal a 14" kukri or bowie either


heres a few of my choices, notice ID never consider a folder or a knife without a decent grip with a quilion


on the lower end ID consider the KBAR
kbar.jpg


http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/6350/kbar.htm
http://www.thekhukurihouse.com/catalog/product.php?id=343239f87

smallk.png

on the upper cost range

When I first handled one of these bowies I was impressed, but later research showed they had a huge design flaw.
the cold steel Natchez bowie, the problem with the larger bowie is its nearly impossible to conceal, AND LATER IN THIS THREAD I'LL POST WHY THIS PARTICULAR BOWIE IS IMPRESSIVE LOOKING BUT A VERY BAD ,FLAWED DESIGN
http://www.rockynational.com/3445_16ABS ... Bowie.html
http://www.coldsteel.com/Product/16ABSJ ... BOWIE.aspx
natchez.jpg


http://www.coldsteel.com/natchezbowie.html
http://nepalkhukurihouse.com/Products/? ... y&CatID=31
cskukriz.jpg

http://www.coldsteel.com/Product/39LGKT ... KUKRI.aspx
the cold steel kukri makes a good replacement for a small camp hatchet but its too large to easily carry on a daily basis unless you have a custom made sheath/belt

http://nepalkukri.com/index.php/popular ... beast.html

http://nepalkukri.com/index.php/10-pana ... a-373.html

http://xxxknife.com/product.asp?productid=f0031

with any blade, youll need a decent sharpening tool, and these are easy to use and carry
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/DMT-Double-Sided-Diafold-P12.aspx
 
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Re: whats your selection of a decent combat knife?

I would use either of the two below. A Gerber MKII or the Buck Nighthawk. I'm no knife expert, but I have trained some with "Brownie" (Robin Brown) who has trained extensively with James Keating and Michael Janich. For my size, IMO, I believe that the larger "bowie" type knives would be slower and a disadvantage for me.
 

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Re: whats your selection of a decent combat knife?

" I believe that the larger "bowie" type knives would be slower and a disadvantage for me."

for about 90% of the guys I taught over the years the first tendency they had was to slash or thrust at an opponent,s body and while that fully understandable because its what you see in 90% of the movies, its not necessarily a winning strategy.
the first rule in fighting with a blade is Don,t get cut!, followed closely by force the opponent to impact your blade with his flesh, theres no rule that you must win in the first 15 seconds, you don,t need to get fancy/artsy, and its not fencing, with a foil for sport, its a mental chess game where you hopefully have the advantage, arm locks trapping , foot work and feinting to get the opponent to commit on your terms are all, skills.
in many cases a blade forward, point down stance once learned and practiced as a ,learned defensive skill, almost a boxing stance and semi ping/pong like pivoting action with a short snapping , or praying mantis style parry or tight snapping deflection of the opponents moves , while pivoting your center-line of mass , out of line from his trust vector very quickly results in your opponents, hands legs,or arms taking cuts, without your need to extent or expose yourself much. obviously the main object is to NOT get cut while forcing any opponent to run flesh against steel if he attempts to engage you

the problem with using a knife for self defense is two fold,
(1) to be truly effective,to its full potential, in both defense and offensive use, a knife must be of fairly decent size , making it a bit difficult to conceal and illegal to carry in many areas,AND used by someone with EXTENSIVE MARTIAL ARTS TRAINING IN ITS USE
now Im certainly not suggesting that a completely untrained person with a blade can,t do impressive damage, but a skilled user can do that damage to an opponent far quicker and with less chance of being disarmed or injured

viewtopic.php?f=94&t=2082

(2) juries tend to look on people killed or extensively cut with a blade as VICTIMS and knife wielders as ATTACKERS/MUGGERS/SADISTS, rather than an intended victim that was defending themselfs
 
Re: whats your selection of a decent combat knife?

As I mentioned I am far from being a knife expert or even a good knife man. What you stated seems to mesh with what I have learned. That was that the primary goal with the knife is to protect the core and in doing so cut the opponent. The difficult part is to recognize how the opponent is presenting and to take advantage of mistakes he makes doing so. It is a complex art.
 
Re: whats your selection of a decent combat knife?

IBob said:
As I mentioned I am far from being a knife expert or even a good knife man. What you stated seems to mesh with what I have learned. That was that the primary goal with the knife is to protect the core and in doing so cut the opponent. The difficult part is to recognize how the opponent is presenting and to take advantage of mistakes he makes doing so. It is a complex art.


that sums up the core idea rather well,Its really difficult to describe what can be demonstrated rather easily in face to face practice.
skills like hooking/trapping and redirection/deflection of force lines, maintaining center of mass, over support, not extending, so as to provide potential leverage to an opponent and how to avoid, or use an opponents leg sweeps to your advantage, how to meet steel with steel, only when required and use of the off hand to pull /push an opponent off balance all factor into the skill set
obviously you'll want to avoid all confrontations.
as even morons can get lucky, but if forced, into a fight it helps to have some familiarity and skill in the weapons use.
the object is not usually to kill, but to rapidly dis-arm and rapidly cause enough superficial damage to cause the opponent, to be dis-armed, to flee, or surrender, and stop the attack, usually thats not that difficult to accomplish once your opponent starts bleeding profusely, most people are rather reluctant to continue a confrontation after they require several stitches, especially if you can display the skill to inflict them rapidly and seemingly easily far surpassing their ability to reciprocate in kind.
the advantage of the larger more massive blade of the bowie is that it deflects blows and chops, with ease far easier than a stiletto, or Sykes-Fairbarin
knife_sykes_fairbairn_600.jpg
, but those were never designed to be used defensively, unlike the bowie, which in its later variations was.
The Cold Steel Natchez Bowie was born “Under-The-Hill†and takes its pedigree from those seedy taverns and dimly lit streets. Line-bred for battle, it’s the definitive fighting Bowie. Its long blade is perfectly shaped for strength, reach and leverage, and its significant heft is flawlessly balanced, giving it unparalleled liveliness and velocity. Combine all that with its wickedly razor sharp edge and you have a knife that pierces like a dagger, cuts like a razor and chops like a cleaver!
http://www.historicarkansas.org/knife_gallery/
policestuff_2099_146419476

inside of about 6 feet a blades usually potentially lethal, in trained hands,faster and it won,t jam, run out of ammo or mis-fire

examples of why a knife as a weapon , even in unskilled hands should not be taken as less dangerous than a handgun, thats why most cops just shoot knife armed attackers

Copknifefight.jpg




FOR014.jpg

FOR026.jpg
 
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Re: whats your selection of a decent combat knife?

imo, it starts off in the mind. your opponent will probly know nothing about you. a larger blade would seem to be more dangerous. a very skilled combatant would probly win with a box cutter. its probly unlikely to come across a very skilled blademan. you may be able to see it in his eyes when he sees your big blade. i would like it to be as sharp as a new razor....or sharper. a very sharp blade will cut flesh on contact. i would prefer a double edged blade. i would also like the tip to be very pointed for ease of penetration and for a spookier look. a very polished finish to top it off. weight would depend on the physical size of the user. i dont believe that one size fits all. i dont know the first thing about this subject. this is just my 2c.
 
Re: whats your selection of a decent combat knife?

grumpyvette said:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2d8_1367104934
watch this linked video, it shows a knife in the hands of an opponent is very effective, , and faster than most guys can use a pistol

I watched Grumpy.
Learned. .
21 feet to get 2 shots off.
Less there is a 90 % or greater chance your will be knife stabbed cut.

I am Strong & Fast.
But good to learn new defense & offense tatics .
Like to trip them.
A push & they are off balance.
Edge then .
 
Re: whats your selection of a decent combat /defensive knife

when I was a martial arts instructor for a very short time, we were invited too, and did give demonstrations to the police,
we had a couple of them, volunteer to wear plasticized white paper shirts and slacks like painters sometimes wear,and gave them plastic prop cap guns, and I demonstrated how effective a knife in the hands of a trained opponent could be using a large red magic marker.
disp1.jpg

disp2.jpg

I explained that they were to defend them self's if they saw any hint of a threat. I would walk up and start a conversion and before ANY of the guys ever got off a singe shot, I produced the magic marker simulating a blade, they looked like a deranged idiot was striping them like a barber shop pole , with long red slash marks before they could respond.
keep in mind I studied several styles of KALI, and eskrima for years
but I,m not that good ,or fast, compared to some people, but I am fairly well practiced in the arts

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/basic-fighting-knife-design.13761/
 
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Re: whats your selection of a decent combat /defensive knife

grumpyvette said:
when I was a martial arts instructor for a very short time, we were invited too, and did give demonstrations to the police,
we had a couple of them, volunteer to wear plasticized white paper shirts and slacks like painters sometimes wear,and gave them plastic prop cap guns, and I demonstrated how effective a knife in the hands of a trained opponent could be using a large red magic marker. I explained that they were to defend them self's if they saw any hint of a threat. I would walk up and start a conversion and before ANY of the guys ever got off a singe shot, I produced the magic marker simulating a blade, they looked like a deranged idiot was striping them like a barber shop pole , with long red slash marks before they could respond

Lol Grumpy.

I have always been the defensive type 98% Of the time.
My area has crazies too. When younger I would do the bar hop & drinking like others.
Seen plenty of knives pulled. Few hanguns too.
No messing around. THINK FAST & REACT. Running tends to be a mistake in an indoor area.
The maniac with weapon will pursue.
Most were high on illeciet drugs. Makes them slow.
 
Re: whats your selection of a decent combat /defensive knife

Defense & Offense to protect yourself & loved ones lessons from you Grumpy are appreciated.

Brian
 
Re: whats your selection of a decent combat /defensive knife

Mmmm, don't agree with that Lynn Thompson fellow.

Below is what I used to carry. I consider it the perfect tactical knife. This is a Gerber back when they were made in the USA. Great quality and I have had it for many years.

I dunno what Mr. Thomson is talking about, but folding knives are not unreliable and prone to breaking. There are many quality pieces out there. Are they as tough as a single piece of forged steel? No, but they don't need to be and they will not break on the job. There is a lot of junk out there but it's just silly to imply that all folding knives are unreliable.

The knife below is of extremely tough construction - can even rebuild it (never had to). The grip is large, shaped and texture so it will not slip from your hand even when slippery. The grip is shaped for both stabbing and slashing. For stabbing, the grip will seat very well in the palm of your hand.

It works very well with a reverse grip backed by your forearm.

The blade is European shape and NOT serrated. There is no chance of it getting snagged or unfortunately stuck somewhere.

The lock is very positive and sturdy.

FWIW it's matte and will not glare - not being parkerized, you won't lose it in the mud when it's dark.

The blade is just long enough to be effective. All organs and major and blood lines are within straight forward puncture reach. Longer blade suffer from leverage issues - with lower penetration and increased risk of it breaking out of your hand. Once your over a certain length, slashing (which is indeed more defensive) becomes more difficult. The sykes-fairbairn has such issues. Larger knives also suffer from inertia issues. They are good at hack and chop and can do massive damage but are not nimble and able to do sudden reversals. The below knife is very nimble.

The below is also VERY concealable. Typically I would loop on my belt behind my back sheathed upside down.

Dunno what Mr. Thompson was talking about in terms of keenness... but ALL knives should be as sharp as possible. I won't say razor sharp - cuz they aren't... but certainly they should shave the hair off your forearm.


F3B0A006-F2EA-4D7A-9B53-4042ADC36388-758-00000059AD6FEB7B_zps52750658.jpg


F68A52DD-8B42-4EB3-8349-C795E175379D-758-00000059B5BFFE28_zps04ac81a8.jpg


99223E62-F9C4-464F-8280-AAB37629E2F9-758-00000059BC7BED94_zpsb06ea4f4.jpg


19E2AFA7-A208-4F7E-9C04-47BD90F270B2-758-00000059C60858E3_zps0787b101.jpg


BAEA79E1-9AF1-4677-B5EF-1BD1310E3EDF-758-00000059CF5C1C61_zpsbf7b2af7.jpg
 
Re: whats your selection of a decent combat /defensive knife

I don,t understand how any adult can function without having access to a few tools, and in my opinion having some type of blade that you can access on an instants notice is mandatory, now Im not suggesting you need a 12' bowie or a kukri on your hip to function, but a dozen times a day I reach for a pocket knife , and I'm certainly guilty of having something a bit larger than the typical key chain knife I see a few guys carry, and a decent pocket knife with a locking folding blade of 2.5"-3.5" is certainly useful.
Ive had several folders from cold steel and gerber over the years,and frequently just carry a sheath knife, from cold steel, but I frequent prefer too have some type of sheath knife on my belt also, even if I have a folder.
this morning my olde son comes over to me with a package containing a computer mouse packed in thick transparent plastic that he found was far to thick and difficult to cut with the stupid safety scissors that the wife keeps on the desk, all I can say after watching him try to open the pack with the scissors is that they obviously don,t intend you to open the package and remover the mouse, my knife will easily shave hair and it took a bit of effort to slice off the sealed edge of the blister packaging.and as usual my older son did not have a pocket knife handy.
If I don,t have a blade handy, It makes me a bit crazy to have to have to consistently ,and repeatedly, need to get up and go looking for a steak knife in the kitchen, or walk to the back garage to get scissors from the tool chest, as I find it rather annoying to find I don,t have a blade when its needed for a dozen reasons every day, and if you forget , youll darn sure be forced to remember that over-site fairly soon. theres always something that needs to be opened, cut, trimmed or sharpened

the sharade woodsman may not be ideal but its not expensive and its durable , fairly easy to maintain an edge,and Ive found it to be a very useful tool to have handy on your belt most of the time, and if you wear long shirts like I do its not obvious you have it on your belt

http://www.knifeoutlet.com/shop/10Expan ... e=SCH165OT
\or a folder
http://www.knifeoutlet.com/shop/10Expan ... e=CS27TLCT

sch165ot.jpg


If you can,t get a razor sharp edge with a set of these stones diamond faced folding handle sharpeners, below, and a can of WD 40 and a leather strap for stropping after some practice your approaching hopeless at a dead run!
Ive always had decent results, getting a shaving sharp edge, on anything like decent steel, if you take the time and effort.

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/DMT-Double-Sided-Diafold-P12C24.aspx

FW-z.jpg
 
Re: whats your selection of a decent combat /defensive knife

yeah Ive always been into learning how to use tools, firearms and knives, and martial arts,so this may or may not interest you!
cold steel sells a high quality kukri
31TmEy5ZP%2BL.jpg


the three designs linked here are all the basic for a decent and effective lower cost combat blade, now granted these are all fairly large and not something easily concealed, but if your betting your life on an edged combat tools ability to swiftly and effectively over come an antagonist these are worth looking at.
these blades don,t have the fit and finish you might be looking for in a custom knife but for the price they represent a good value in effective edged weaponry on a budget

kur1.png

http://nepalkukri.com/index.php/11-gk-co-bowie.html
kur2.png

https://nepalkukri.com/index.php/featur ... ender.html
kur3.png

http://nepalkukri.com/index.php/popular ... brown.html
custom kydex scabards / Sheath's are available, from several suppliers, or you can get the materials to make your own.
http://www.knifekits.com/vcom/index.php
http://www.valhallacustomkydex.com/knife-sheaths.html
http://willowhavenoutdoor.com/general-s ... r-kitchen/
http://clevelandkydex.com/index.php?mai ... cPath=28_4
READ THE LINK
viewtopic.php?f=91&t=1128
Glock41_c4a.jpg

personally I think the GLOCK41 in 45 acp and the nearly identical in appearance GLOCK #40 in 10mm, with its 6" barrel are my first two choices in a defensive hand gun
I carry a GLOCK #20 10mm only because the #40 was not available when I bought my 10MM with its slightly shorter barrel length, yeah! most guys will point out they are both too large to easily carry or conceal, but I don,t see that as an issue and if I ever need a weapon I damn sure want something that 100% effective and 100% dependable

20.gif


After DECADES of martial arts training, I can assure you that the quality of your equipment MATERS! and while personal martial arts SKILL's , spacial awareness, and good JUDGMENT are easily 70%-80% of the equation in wining,you can,t use crap quality equipment so do your research well. and practice with that equipment! and it should also go without saying that it does you no good at all if its not instantly and easily accessible when or if needed. and NO I'm not suggesting you buy, carry or use a knife if you are not willing to put in the years of practice its use requires, as a pistol is ALMOST ALWAYS a faster and more effective weapon choice, but as a BACK-up, defensive weapon of choice, knives don,t JAM, RUN OUT OF AMMO, don,t make any noise, or damage innocent people beyond the intended opponent, all things you might consider under some conditions
I recently found a site offering hand forged knives at very interesting prices, above are three that I think are very good buys considering the price, and the fact they have full tang forged blade designs that are made from a decent spring steel (old truck leaf springs)and the price is far lower than comparable knives I see advertized else ware/
keep in mind it would take even a skilled craftsman a full day or more to shape, forge and sharpen and polish any single blade this size and while I'm sure the fit & finish is hardly the best show quality a few days of careful hand detailing should allow you to have a dependable and fully functional blade at what is really a bargain in cost vs the $700 PLUS that is the MINIMUM I see quoted for any blade Id feel comfortable using if my life might depend on the resulting knife NOT failing, under stress.



for a long time I was saving my spare change to buy a COLD STEEL NATCHEZ BOWIE, which sure looked impressive
THAT WAS...UNTIL,


I found something posted that stunned , SHOCKED .SICKENED and amazed me!,


COLD STEEL has a good reputation, UP UNTIL NOW!
but look at the pictures below!!! obviously quality, in fabrication and thinking thru the intended potential FLAWS in a FIGHTING KNIFE design has now been TOTALLY IGNORED in a search for increased profits! I don,t think Ive ever seen lower quality in a design
kur4.png

I ALMOST BOUGHT ONE, I'M GLAD I RESEARCHED THE KNIFE AND LOOKED FOR USER FEED BACK! BEFORE TOTALLY WASTING MY HARD EARNED CASH
kur5.png
 
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Ive been using this kukri rather extensively for months now and its undoubtably a good quality reasonably priced kukri ,
A much better value than I expected too the see for the price!
while its not top quality its well made and a decent value

https://nepalkukri.com/index.php/popular-products/11-afghan-brown.html
certainly one Ill take hunting in the future, I just wish it had a kydex sheath
kur3.png

http://www.survivalprimer.com/a_word_on_Sunday/Warning_Kukri.htm


BTW lighter weight and smaller version with a bit straighter blade design
(unfortunately significantly more expensive)
http://www.thekhukurihouse.com/catalog/product.php?id=343239f87


smallk.png
 
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