Where's The Hp?

chasracer

Member
I have a bracket car that has me scratching my head a bit. Let me first say that I am asking a question(s) here right now but still need to do some work checking things out.

The car is a Chevy Monza 2+2 body style that is on a 2x3 frame with an A-Arm front on it (components are mostly Monza/Vega). The engine is a 434" SBC with the only GM part being the oil filter adapter. The engine was built and dyno'd by a very good engine builder (known him for 40+ years now) and he also put together my 555 BBC that sits in my rail. The engine came in at 747 HP - I don't recall the torque number but it was strong. This is backed up with a FTI Series 4 Powerglide that has basically all the good parts and a 1.80 first gear. The rear is a 9" Ford with 4.86 set and we ride on 31x15 slicks. The car weighs with driver at just short of 2200 pounds RTR. Best 1/8th mile is currently 5.71 @ 121, this was a 75*, 50% decent air day. Other runs that day were in the same area of performance. At that time, we had a TSI convertor that was supposedly built to match the dyno sheet of this engine. I have always felt that the convertor was too tight. While I find online performance calculators to be fun, I understand they are based on "perfect conditions" and given the information they will indicate that the car should be at 5.10 @ 138. My gut feeling is that the car should be somewhere around the 5.40 @ 128-132 mark. Based on that guess, the calculators tell me that HP is only in the 560-570 range.

The engine was dyno'd on race gas, we run it on alky with a 1050 QF carb. Sensor readings tell me that exhaust gas is in the 1250 range so I believe the jetting to be right. Cutting the threads off the plugs and checking the porcelain does not reveal anything out of order. Timing is at 32*, CR is just over 14:1. I have not done a leakdown or compression test yet but those are my first items on the list. The engine fires, idles at about 1050-1100 with a little temperature, there are no misses and pulls to 7000 easily. I can push the engine further but haven't as the power band of the dyno sheet showed 6300-6600. I don't have the cam specs in front of me but I can provide them.

Open to ideas.
 
what rpm do you launch and shift at ?,
and what engine rpm do you cross the lights at?
yeah, cam specs, compression test numbers,
and ideally a dyno sheet would be helpful
 
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Punched the lever at 6600 to 7000, not a lot of change in ET. At the cones, about 6400-6500.

Update: Launch has varied between off-idle to 3000. That was more to do about going red in the car than getting a better ET. I have been racing off and on for 50 years now, I recently climbed in my son's 9-second 3rd Gen Camaro at Bristol Dragway and went .001 and .002 in my first passes. It was almost 4 years since I had sat in the car. I have a method of leaving on the last amber and I never change it - so I was attempting to find a sweet spot where the Monza would not leave me a rather consistent .017 red.
 
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I think I would have it dynoed somewhere else as something seems off in those numbers. Upper number sounds more right with a blower for a small block. Could he have switched dyno sheets?

Still nothing to sneeze at as it performs great.
 
just a question, what happens if you adjust the ignition advance timing to lets say 34 or 35 vs the current 32 degrees ?
and yeah, Id be expecting about 580-630 hp, not 747 with the vary limited posted info
 
I think I would have it dynoed somewhere else as something seems off in those numbers. Upper number sounds more right with a blower for a small block. Could he have switched dyno sheets?

Still nothing to sneeze at as it performs great.

No - this guy and his son have held numerous NHRA Modified and Comp records over the years, he's not one to fake a dyno result and ruin his reputation. Besides that the coin in this engine was pretty healthy and I am only about 15 minutes from his shop. I watched most of the assembly of this one.
 
just a question, what happens if you adjust the ignition advance timing to lets say 34 or 35 vs the current 32 degrees ?
and yeah, Id be expecting about 580-630 hp, not 747 with the vary limited posted info

We've run the timing up and down, engine is happy with the 32*, additional timing does nothing for ET and only makes it harder to start. As to the engine, I will find the build sheet and list the components later today.
 
Dart Block
Callies Crank & Rods
Diamond Pistons
Total Seal Rings
Comp Cams Mech Roller (need to find that cam card)
Comp cams double roller chain setup, w/torrington
Offset Comp Cams roller lifters
Brodix Track 1 STS T1 245 Series 40/60
Port Matched to Edlebrock SuperVictor intake w/4500 flange
Jesel Rocker setup to match offset 40/60 valve arrangement
Port matched header plates
2" primary pipe headers to a 3.5 collector
1050 QF Alky carb
MSD Distributor, Plug Wires and Ign Box
Moroso Crank Trigger setup
NGK plugs
Moroso Vacuum Pump, Idle about 4-5 and full song at 11
CSR Aluminum flexplate
ATI dampner
Hamburger Aluminum pan which included scraper, trap doors and mesh to break-up oil return
Steph's pickup and custom worked oil pump
Original convertor was a TSI that flashed at 5200 (Spragless)
Now has a BTE that should flash 6100-6200 but no test yet.
Trans is fresh so we will pick up a few hundredths as it loosens a bit.

Obviously there's a lot of other bits and pieces putting a new engine together -


I need to find the cam card for this build.




 
Cam Card

Gross .728 .728
@ .020 309 307
@ .050 280 288
Lobe .455 .455
Lobe Separation 110.0
Installed Intake Centerline - 110.0

This is a custom grind so you will not find it in the Comp Cams catalog.
 
Rick can you do a software dyno,
btw
his cam valve timing should be darn close too,

int 34-67
exh 78-30
 
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5800 592.6 654.4
5900 591.5 664.4
6000 594.3 679.0
6100 610.8 709.4
6200 591.3 698.0
6300 591.1 709.0
6400 597.1 727.6
6500 592.0 732.7
6600 588.1 739.0
6700 567.9 724.4
6800 568.0 735.5
6900 557.8 735.5
7000 544.3 725.5
7100 541.7 732.2
7200 536.5 735.5

Had 747 in my head but peak hp was 739.0

as to cam numbers

int 30-70
exh 74-34

according to the card
 
I will need some info before I can get started. Please supply the info listed below.

Dynomation 6 Input Variables

Bore & Stroke:
Displacement: cubic inches
Rod Length:
Heads Make/Model with flow numbers: Flow (CFM) at several lift points.
Combustion Chamber Size in CC’s:
Dome Volume: For a domed piston use a (-) negative number.
Valve Relief Volume: For a piston with valve reliefs or dish, use a (+) positive number.
Deck Clearance:
Head Gasket Bore:
Head Gasket Thickness:
Valve Sizes Intake/Exhaust:
Intake Manifold Model Type: [Single or Dual Plane]
Model #:
Carburetor Size or EFI (CFM):
Blower/Turbo Make/Model:
Belt Ratio:
SCR & DCR: Or the info to calculate SCR & DCR [ http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...comp-ratio-cranking-pressure-calculator.4458/ ]
Header Tube Diameter: Small, Medium, Large (1-5/8", or , or)
Cam Card: Need all 8 valve timing events at seat-to-seat and at 0.050” & lobe lift or valve lift
Rocker Ratio - Intake/Exhaust:
Cam Installed per Cam Card, or Retarded or Advanced:
Fuel Used: Gasoline, Methanol, Ethanol, E85 .....
 
Thanks for the offer but a lot of that information I simply do not have my hands on.

What I do know is that a compression test the other day showed 240-250 across the cylinders. A leakdown test showed 3-4%. I checked valve settings only finding 3 that were .001 tight. I cleaned and reworked the set of NGK-8 that were in the engine. I tested the car yesterday in rather cool conditions. The plug rework seemed to help quite a bit and the cleaning on the vacuum pump made a big difference. No huge change in ET but finally got the car to give me a good string of decent RTs. Now I need to work on a suspension issue that is causing it to move right off the line after lifting the front end 8-10" and planting the rear tires.
 
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