which oil , what viscosity

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
now the short answer is that almost any name brand of automotive 10w30 oil can be used in most modern auto engines,but obviously some are going to be better quality than others,THINNER VISCOSITY'S WILL TEND TO FLOW FASTER , ESPECIALLY AT LOWER TEMPS.
ID strongly suggest you read thru the thread carefully and take a few notes. most of the more modern oil formulas designed for modern engines with roller cams and catalytic converters have a good deal less ZINC and friction reducers that the older formulations designed for the pre- catalytic converter/ emission testing, and flat tappet cam engines of the muscle car era so they have slightly less ability to lubricate the flat tappet cam lifter lobe and sliding friction, contact area, ZINC, and several other friction modifier additives were used in the older formulas as it provided extra wear resistance, but over time it tends to reduce the catalytic converter efficiency.All current engine oils have an additive called ZDDP (Zinc DialkylDithioPhosphate) for wear protection. but be aware its not the only or necessarily the most effective wear additive in all applications. In general, heavy duty engine oils (truck oils like Mobil Delvac) have a higher level of ZDDP. Automotive engine oils generally have a lower level of ZDDP to protect catalytic systems.
as the newer engines were built during the later 1980s- and 1990s that still had flat tappet cams ,the manufacturers became aware of the gradual shift in oil formulas, mostly done to allow the catalytic converters to survive, as ZDDP additives gradually burn off and are reduced over time, and the resulting ash build-up in the converters internal surface does not help catalytic converter function. and the resulting shift in durability it was causing, to flat tappet lifter valve trains and they made changes to the metallurgy of the cams ,and lifters to try to offset the wear issues , some components and applications were much more successful at the attempted improvements than others.
and the frequency of oil changes and filter changes and the way you drive also has an effect, simply waiting until oil temps reach about 200f or more before stressing an engine tends to reduce wear.
a MINIMUM level of ZDDP of 1800PPM is suggested for use with flat tappet cams and lifters AS IS breaking the cam in with a MOLY based assembly lube and an oil having that minimum ZDDP level.
both synthetic or mineral base oils will work fine, synthetics tend to last longer and have a higher tolerance for heat, theres sub links in the thread pointing out the better oils, a quality filter, reasonably frequent oil changes and a bit of research into what actually are the better oils and what you should ask for rather than asking whats on sale helps a great deal
synthetic oils generally have a higher temp limitation and can last longer between oil changes, most conventional mineral base oils work best if used at under 240F and usually are designed to operate in the 190F-230F range, but SOME modern formulations were not formulated for the older flat tappet cam and lifter friction levels. , as a general rule youll want to use the viscosity that maintains 15-20 psi at idle, once the cars engine is up to full operational temps, keep in mind. higher heat thins oil so its common to have oil pressures read higher with cold oil. and have oil pressure gradually get lower as the oil thins with increased heat.
Some modern SYNTHETIC oils can safely operate up to 280F for brief periods and will provide better engine wear protection in the 230f-270f range
its the quality of the oil.
its additives and formulation that will provide most of the lubrication,protection to the moving surfaces and its the viscosity that provides the resistance to flow through the bearing clearances, its that resistance to flow that's being read as BACK pressure or oil pressure on your gauge, thinner oils like 10w30 tend to pump faster and cool better with the higher flow rates , and because most wear in any engine occurs during start-up before pressurized oil flow can force a protective film between moving surfaces the automotive manufacturers have, along with the conversion to roller lifter based valve trains, slowly graduated to the thinner and lower viscosity oils,because they realize the benefits.
As long as you have at least 15-20 psi oil pressure at idle once the cars up to full operational temps (generally 180f oil temps) youll be better off with the thinner synthetic oils that have a higher heat tolerance in many engines

theres a great deal of detailed info later in this thread
, and the answer to what oil is (BEST) is never as simple as sticking to a single brand, most oil companys produce a wide variation of grades and types, so you need to both do some quick research AND remember what to ask for specifically
watch this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... dEFGJqpCMY

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...bil-1-annual-protection-oil.13331/#post-69399

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/diff-oil-for-the-10-bolt.11659/#post-54543

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-filters.11189/#post-54673

look up your fluid capacity

http://www.amsoil.com/lookup/auto-and-light-truck/?zo=531421&page=/products/application_guide.aspx

HERES A FEW OF THE OILS I TRUST, coat flat tappet lifters and cam lobes with crane moly assembly paste lube
crn-99004-1_w.jpg

I usually use 6-7 quarts of oil and 1 quart of marvel mystery oil added in my oil pan 11 quart oil pan and oil cooler system capacity
10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil
10W30 Valvoline NSL
10w30 Castrol GTX conventional,
10w30 mobile 1
10w30 KENDAL racing oil

zddp.jpg

and heres a good break in additive for flat tappet lifter cams
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRO-86092
obviously the formula effects the resulting products characteristics
oilpc1.jpg

api.jpg

9079.jpg

stb1.gif

stb2.gif

stb3.png

stb4.gif

stb5.jpg


viewtopic.php?f=54&t=4793&p=13024#p13024
groove1.jpg

groove2.jpg

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2102
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=10186&p=40285#p40285
its the constant supply of oil, under pressure and its constant absorbing and transfer of heat from those moving parts, and the oils ability to prevent direct physical contact of those components that's critical.
youll generally want to select an oil with a viscosity that will maintain a 15psi-20psi reading on your oil gauge, when the engines at idle speed and up to operational temperatures of about 200F, on a newer engine with tight bearing clearances that should be about a 10w30 viscosity
you can try too debate the rate moisture in oil dissipates if you choose , but I,m just pointing out that testing by several oil companys and G.M. have stated in the past that PHYSICS REQUIRES the oil temp reach and stay at or above 215F for several minutes to FORCE the trapped moisture to convert the acidic molecules to be converted back to oil and steam,and force the calcium in the oil to absorb the acidic content of the trapped exhaust gasses.
keep in mind that does NOT MEAN the oil in the sump must reach 215F it means the CIRCULATING OIL FLOW must cycle the oil continuously, long enough so that ALL the oil volume at some point cycles repeatedly over components that will raise its temp to above 215F, (not the same thing as raising all the oil in the sump,too and keeping it over 215F)
keep in mind the rings,valve springs, rockers and pistons normally run significantly hotter than other components, so a constant circulation of the oil flow is critical to the process.
a standard SBC or BBC flows between 2-6 gallons or oil thru the bearings and lifters per minute oil is obviously cooler in the sump than when draining over valve springs or trapped on piston to bore surfaces, so SO TOTAL RUNNING TIME and the percentage of the oil being heated obviously will effect the burn-off and cleaning process efficiency. you just as obviously need to be able to JUDGE when the engines run long enough and you only have a oil temp gauge to use,as a guide, so if the oil temp gauge reaches and stays near 200F or above for about 10 minutes you can be fairly sure most of the oil at some point has cycled at above 215F , if it reaches 215F on average in the sump,you can be certain that all the oil has at some point exceeded that temp.
if you just change the oil and filter about every 4500-5000 miles or so, most of the better name brand oils will work, but there are big differences in the oil that's available, example most synthetic oils tend to have a higher resistance to breaking down due to heat.
while some mineral oils start to slowly break down at about 250-260F, most synthetics can add an easy 30F to those numbers, before heat becomes a huge factor in lubrication.
ON FACT many guys ignore is that you can increase the gauge pressure reading with thicker viscosity oil, and you can decrease the gauge pressure reading with thinner viscosity oil,mods that increase the oil flow rates like drilling the front oil passage plug or grooving the lifter bores or distributor lower band will reduce the gauge pressure reading,and the resistance the pump places on the cam gear driving it.
now if you've got a flat tappet cam engine you'll want about a minimum of a .12 %-.14% zinc listed in the formula as a wear additive (LOOK THRU THE LINKS) , but 1800 ppm is the minimum ID consider with a flat tappet cam design as thats been proven to work, as a protective wear level and having some moly in the oil wont hurt at all.
I generally use, Kendal gt, Valvoline, mobile one, shell , or Texaco, in a 10w30-10w40 viscosity and have a qt of marvel mystery oil added into the mix and pureolator or wix oil filters,
once your get your engine up to operating temp. (usually about 180F-200F the oil viscosity due to the temp. and engine clearances , will quickly let you know if the viscosity is about correct, thinner oils are far easier to push thru clearances, so they get too and lube parts far faster on cold mornings but as heat increases they tend to thin out, so a good way to gauge is to look at your oil pressure gauge once the engines up to temp at idle, you'll generally want 15-20 psi at idle (no less than 10-12 psi) and a steady increase in pressure as the rpms increase up to about 65-70 psi where the oil pump bye-pass circuit limits further increases, higher oil pressure requires the oil pump to work harder, eating up potential hp, and generally provides no more increased lubrication benefits, but pressures up to about 120 psi won,t hurt the engine,
keep in mind that having a large baffled oil pan with a windage screen sure helps as it maintains oil supply to the oil pump far more consistently.
adding a few magnets to trap metallic dust sure won,t hurt either
with the engine up to operational temp.of between about 180f-210f
and using an oil viscosity that maintains at least 15-20 psi at hot idle in traffic,
your engine should maintain a MINIMUM of 10 psi per 1000rpm and max out pressure at about 4500-5500rpm at 60psi or higher
remember the thicker the oil the harder it is to force thru the clearances in the engine, and pressure is how you measure the RESISTANCE to oil flow, but you should use an oil viscosity that at least maintains that 15-20 psi at idle

whats your oil pressure at idle?
oil pressure is the result of the balance of oil flow volume and engine clearances or the resistance to oil flow, larger clearances result in lower pressures or they can also be increased slightly with a higher viscosity oil that's a bit more difficult to force thru tight clearances.
if its under about 20 psi, at idle with the engine up to temp, it may not be enough to fully seat the lifters push rod seats up to the full extent,, your clearances may be large enough that you can use a high volume oil pump, and it sure won,t hurt to loosen up the lifter seats, why not do an oil change and add a quart of marvel mystery oil so the solvents can brake loose any crud and swap to a higher viscosity, IE, if you use 10w30 now swap to 20w50,viscosity just to see if it clears up the noise issue, if it does then you know its basically an oil flow/volume issue and swapping to a high volume oil pump will mask the problem, by supplying more low rpm oil flow/volume with your standard mix of oil, but you may also want to mix in a couple quarts of 10w30 and 20w50 as the oil/viscosity will better suit your clearances

theres a good deal of interesting reading, and a lot of good info in the links, below
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/index.html

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2726

http://www.classiccarmotoroil.com/articles.html

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2102&p=11190#p11190

http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil Tests.pdf

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/generica ... Id=7007302

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... index.html

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/engine-oil-analysis/

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

http://www.elephantracing.com/techtopic ... rature.htm

as a general rule as your engine oil viscosity is reduced the effort required to pump the oil thru clearances is lower and the pressure reading on the gauge drops, thats not necessarily an indication of lower bearing protection, as thats generally a function of oil quality and its formula, and basic components used, in its design, and generally its increased flow rate increases bearing cooling, a good quality 10w30 should ideally provide 20-22 psi at 800rpm idle (anything over 15-17 psi at 800rpm is fine) and 60-65psi by 5000rpm which is all you can use

viscosityvstemperature400.gif

oilvis1.jpg


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/index.php ... &Itemid=59

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/all/misc/all_oilfaq.html

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/tech/oil/index.html

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=296

http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/oil_myths.pdf

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=150

http://www.mellingengine.com/TechnicalS ... etins.aspx

http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil Tests.pdf

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=615

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubricant

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=866

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=11043&p=48999#p48999

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=612
keep in mind both engine oil temps and trans fluid temps seldom reach operational temps,fluid
and stabilize , for semi consistent data,in under 12-15 minutes of drive time,temps have a huge effect on lubricant viscosity and durability. .
BTW one frequently overlooked factor, in cooling your engine or adding an additional oil cooler, is your alternator size,in amps and wiring the alternator correctly, if your running a 70amp-100 amp stock alternator and using electric fans to cool the engine,its not going to provide the power required to spin the fans nearly fast enough to cool the engine like a better 200 amp alternator can
-
---- Original Message ----- From: "Valv Tech Line" To: <
>Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 9:16 AMSubject: Re:Feedback From Valvoline: Question/Comment about product: Valvoline Conventional Motor Oil IID

This is the real story behind the myths. With ever increasing limits on emissions, automobile manufacturers have tightened emission control systems on newer vehicles. This is one of several factors considered when the American Petroleum Institute (API) sets standards for engine oil. The current API standard is SM which replaced the previous SL classification. Because phosphorus can poison a vehicles emission system, the level of zinc is lower for current engine oil. Because of this, many hands-on car enthusiasts and engine experts believe the lower levels of zinc in SM engine oil is causing excessive wear in older style push-rod and flat tappet engines. This is despite the fact that all new engine oil classifications are intended to be backward compatible, which in turn has resulted in the widely accepted belief that modern engine oil is not adequate to protect older engines.Valvoline uses an advanced zinc/phosphorus additive that keeps higher levels of phosphorus in the engine oil where it protects the engine, instead of poisoning the catalytic converter. Valvoline is the only brand offering this unique additive across its entire line of passenger car engine oils, including SynPower which is the only synthetic offering this additive.The only exclusion to this would be if you are operating a high performance or aggressive cam application, where high Zinc levels may be required. Because of these requirements, there are high-zinc engine oils available to meet this need, such as our Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil. The VR1 Racing Oil establishes a 75% higher zinc content than SM engine oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and street-legal applications. This product will protect older style push-rod and flat tappet engines and carries an oil change interval recommendation of 3 month/3,000 miles.It is important to note, however, that the entire additive package still needs to be balanced for best performance. For example, engine oil with a high zinc level but low detergent may not perform over a drain interval of 3,000 miles or longer.
keep in mind that your oil pressure gauge measures the resistance to flow the oil sees as it flows thru the bearing clearances, larger clearances will require higher flow rates or a higher viscosity oil, higher flow rates can be supplied with a high volume oil pump but that also requires a larger baffled oil pan and windage screen to control the higher oil flow rates

clearanceload.jpg



clearanceflow.jpg



clearancetemp.jpg



with the engine up to operating temperature (about 180F-210f oil temp) you should be fine, but even cold it should flow and lubricate reasonably well if youve got at least 15-20 psi at idle and a minimum of about 10 psi additional per thousand rpm up to about 6000 rpm, roller cams require less oil flow and it generally takes under 5 minutes at idle for engine oil to hit 170F or above


keep in mind oil accumulates soot and acids over time, and even the fine black soot , most filters won,t strain out causes wear, so oil needs to be changed, even if its well filtered
sootwear.gif



http://www.driverstechnology.co.uk/oils.htm

What's written on your oil bottle, and what does it mean?

This post may seem like going back to basics but I'm constantly surprised by the number of people who do not know, or understand, what is written on a bottle of oil, and therefore have no idea what they are buying/using.

To be blunt about the subject, if a bottle of oil does not contain the following basic information then DO NOT buy it! Look for something that does!

1) The purpose for which it is intended (i.e. Motor oil, Gear oil etc)

2) The viscosity (i.e. 10w40, 5w30 etc for Motor oils and 80w90, 75w90, etc for Gear oils)

3) The specifications that it meets (should contain both API and ACEA ratings)

4) The OEM Approvals that it carries and the codes (i.e. MB229.3, VW503.00, BMW LL01 etc)

Ignore the marketing blurb on the label - in many cases it's meaningless and I'll explain later what statements you should treat with some scepticism.

So, what does the above information mean and why is it important?

THE BASICS

All oils are intended for an application and in general are not interchangeable. You would not for example put an Automatic Transmission Oil or a Gear Oil in your engine! It's important to know what the oil's intended purpose is.

VISCOSITY

Most oils on the shelves today are "Multigrades", which simply means that the oil falls into 2 viscosity grades (i.e. 10w-40 etc)

Multigrades were first developed some 50 years ago to avoid the old routine of using a thinner oil in winter and a thicker oil in summer.

In a 10w-40 for example the 10w bit (W = winter, not weight or watt or anything else for that matter) simply means that the oil must have a certain maximum viscosity/flow at low temperature. The lower the "W" number the better the oil's cold temperature/cold start performance.

The 40 in a 10w-40 simply means that the oil must fall within certain viscosity limits at 100°C. This is a fixed limit and all oils that end in 40 must achieve these limits. Once again the lower the number, the thinner the oil: a 30 oil is thinner than a 40 oil at 100°C etc. Your handbook will specify whether a 30, 40 or 50 etc is required.

SPECIFICATIONS

Specifications are important as these indicate the performance of the oil and whether they have met or passed the latest tests, or whether the formulation is effectively obsolete or out of date. There are two specifications that you should look for on any oil bottle and these are API (American Petroleum Institute) and ACEA (Association des Constructeurs Europeens d'Automobiles) all good oils should contain both of these, and an understanding of what they mean is important.

API

This is the more basic as it is split (for passenger cars) into two catagories. S = Petrol and C = Diesel, most oils carry both petrol (S) and diesel (C) specifications.

The following table shows how up to date the specifications the oil are:

PETROL

SG - Introduced 1989 - has much more active dispersant to combat black sludge.

SH - Introduced 1993 - has same engine tests as SG, but includes phosphorus limit 0.12%, together with control of foam, volatility and shear stability.

SJ - Introduced 1996 - has the same engine tests as SG/SH, but phosphorus limit 0.10% together with variation on volatility limits

SL - Introduced 2001 - all new engine tests reflective of modern engine designs meeting current emissions standards

SM - Introduced November 2004 - improved oxidation resistance, deposit protection and wear protection, also better low temperature performance over the life of the oil compared to previous categories.

Note:

All specifications prior to SL are now obsolete and, although suitable for some older vehicles, are more than 10 years old, and do not provide the same level of performance or protection as the more up to date SL and SM specifications.

DIESEL

CD - Introduced 1955 - international standard for turbo diesel engine oils for many years, uses single cylinder test engine only

CE - Introduced 1984 - improved control of oil consumption, oil thickening, piston deposits and wear, uses additional multi cylinder test engines

CF4 - Introduced 1990 - further improvements in control of oil consumption and piston deposits, uses low emission test engine

CF - Introduced 1994 - modernised version of CD, reverts to single cylinder low emission test engine. Intended for certain indirect injection engines

CF2 - Introduced 1994 - defines effective control of cylinder deposits and ring face scuffing, intended for 2 stroke diesel engines

CG4 - Introduced 1994 - development of CF4 giving improved control of piston deposits, wear, oxidation stability and soot entrainment. Uses low sulphur diesel fuel in engine tests

CH4 - Introduced 1998 - development of CG4, giving further improvements in control of soot related wear and piston deposits, uses more comprehensive engine test program to include low and high sulphur fuels

CI4 Introduced 2002 - developed to meet 2004 emission standards, may be used where EGR ( exhaust gas recirculation ) systems are fitted and with fuel containing up to 0.5 % sulphur. May be used where API CD, CE, CF4, CG4 and CH4 oils are specified.

Note:

All specifications prior to CH4 are now obsolete and, although suitable for some older vehicles, are more than 10 years old and do not provide the same level of performance or protection as the more up to date CH4 & CI4 specifications.

If you want a better more up to date oil specification then look for SL, SM, CH4, CI4

ACEA

This is the European equivalent of API (US) and is more specific in what the performance of the oil actually is. A = Petrol, B = Diesel and C = Catalyst compatible or low SAPS (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus and Sulphur).

Unlike API the ACEA specs are split into performance/application catagories as follows:

A1 Fuel economy petrol
A2 Standard performance level (now obsolete)
A3 High performance and/or extended drain
A4 Reserved for future use in certain direct injection engines
A5 Combines A1 fuel economy with A3 performance

B1 Fuel economy diesel
B2 Standard performance level (now obsolete)
B3 High performance and/or extended drain
B4 For direct injection car diesel engines
B5 Combines B1 fuel economy with B3/B4 performance

C1-04 Petrol and light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 low SAPS, two way catalyst compatible.
C2-04 Petrol and light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 mid SAPS, two way catalyst compatible.
C3-04 Petrol and light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 mid SAPS, two way catalyst compatible, higher performance levels due to higher HTHS.

Note: SAPS = Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous and Sulphur.

Put simply, A3/B3, A5/B5 and C3 oils are the better quality, stay in grade performance oils.

APPROVALS

Many oils mention various OEM's on the bottle, the most common in the UK being VW, MB or BMW but do not be misled into thinking that you are buying a top oil because of this.

Oil Companies send their oils to OEM's for approval however some older specs are easily achieved and can be done so with the cheapest of mineral oils. Newer specifications are always more up to date and better quality/performance than the older ones.

Some of the older OEM specifications are listed here and depending on the performance level of your car are best ignored if you are looking for a quality high performance oil:

VW - 500.00, 501.00 and 505.00

Later specs like 503, 504, 506 and 507 are better performing more up to date oils

MB - 229.1

Later specs like 229.3 and 229.5 are better performing more up to date oils.

BMW - LL98

Later specs like LL01 and LL04 are better performing more up to date oils.


FINALLY

Above is the most accurate guidance I can give without going into too much depth however there is one final piece of advice regarding the labelling.

Certain statements are made that are meaningless and just marketing blurb, here are a few to avoid!

  • Recommended for use where.....
  • May be used where the following specifications apply.....
  • Approved by...........(but with no qualification)
  • Recommended/Approved by (some famous person, these endorsements are paid for)
  • Racing/Track formula (but with no supporting evidence)
Also be wary of statements like "synthetic blend" if you are looking for a fully synthetic oil as this will merely be a semi-synthetic.

Like everything in life, you get what you pay for and the cheaper the oil the cheaper the ingredients and lower the performance levels.

- By Simon from the Porsche 968 website.

Changing your oil and your oil filter are necessary to keep your car's engine running well.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
Re: which oil , what viscosity (Lynn63 posted this)

I, too, used to question "0" weight oils thinking they didn't have any viscosity. A few years ago I ran across a book titled "Motor Oils and Engine Lubrication" by Dave Mann, a lubrication engineer and member of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). Here is an excerpt from his book.

"AMSOIL 0W-30 5W-30 and 10W-30 synthetic motor oils are ALL 30 weight oils. The answer is that ANY one can be used regardless if your vehicle owners manual says to use, for example, a 5W-30. "W" means winter. In winter weather the 0W oil will flow like a 0W oil, and the 5W will flow like a 5W oil and a 10W will flow like a 10W oil just until the engine warms up. In order to understand the differences you must first understand that the numerical values given to these various weight oils are strictly empirical numbers. For example, 0W does not mean that the oil has no weight. It is simply an assigned number to compare with another assigned number such as 0W compared with 10W. That is one of the reasons why we say it is strictly an empirical number.

In order to determine the differences between the three oils you have to look at the kinematic viscosity of each lubricant. The kinematic viscosity is essentially the amount of time, in centistokes, that it takes for a specified volume of the lubricant to flow through a fixed diameter orifice at a given temperature.

Let's compare the kinematic viscosity of the three AMSOIL lubricants:

* AMSOIL 0W-30 is 57.3 cST @ 40 deg. C, & 11.3 cST @ 100 deg. C
* AMSOIL 5W-30 is 59.5 cST @ 40 deg. C, & 11.7 cST @ 100 deg. C
* AMSOIL 10W-30 is 66.1 cST @ 40 deg. C, & 11.7 cST @ 100 deg. C

Here is the important part.
As you can see from the data above the kinematic viscosities are extremely close. Therefore, whether you use the 0W-30 5W-30 or the 10W-30 is strictly a matter of choice. With the small differences in kinematic viscosity you would be hard-pressed to detect these differences on initial engine start-up without specialized engine test equipment.

All three oils are excellent motor oils and ANY one can be used in a vehicle which requires either a 0W-30 5W-30 or 10W-30 oil as well as in several other engine applications including an engine which recommends a 5W- 20 oil."

I have been using 0W30 in my 99 Venture van for over three years now without any problems.

I hope this helps a little.

http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil Tests.pdf

Lynn63

Mobile1Oil-1.jpg

Mobile1Oil-2.jpg


THIS STUFF WORKS
crn-99004.jpg

very good
molypaste.jpg

very very good
permassembly.jpg

zddplus.jpg


cambreakin.jpg

yes the additives in the the quart of MMO you can add to your crank case oil, do a good job of breaking up and holding in suspension oil sludge and transporting it to the oil filter
marvel.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
I frequently hear the younger guys say that they want to run a 160F t-stat because they hear that cooler air is denser and holds a higher oxygen content, and while thats true the fuel air mix in an intake port can very easily be traveling 100-300 feet per minute, that means that in a typical intake manifold at lets assume a low cruise speed the time it takes an individual cubic inch of air to be blended with fuel mist and too move from the carburetor or throttle body to combustion chamber could easily be less than 1/20 of a second, how much heat transfer do you thinks accomplished in that time span?

oil must reach and at least briefly exceed 215F to burn off moisture and prevent acids from forming, bearing surface temps can and do run 50-70 degrees hotter than oil in the oil pan, so if the engine oil circulates for at least 15-20 minutes this is seldom an issue, the ideal oil temp range in the oil pan,would normally fall in the 180F-210F range as this both lubricates, cleans and COOLs the bearing surfaces.
oil needs to be changed on a regular basis, you don,t need to change it as frequently as in years past (every 3500 miles) but every 5000,too 8000miles is mandatory if your to maintain top performance from lubricant oil

when selecting oil,for your engine, thinner viscosity oils pump with less effort and transfer heat away from bearings and the valve train faster so within reasonable limits thinner oil provides better protection, but you MUST maintain adequate film strength naturally, keep in mind the gauge pressure indicates is mostly the result of RESISTANCE TO FLOW thru the engine bearing clearances
you don,t really care what it is cold but once its up to operational temperatures of about 200F -210F oil temp it should ideally be thick enough (HIGH ENOUGH VISCOSITY) to maintain about 15-20 PSI at idle and gain about 10 psi per 1000rpm up to about 60-65 psi, theres nothing gained if the pressures higher it just puts additional strain on the oil pump and cam gears

most engine wear occurs during the first 7-10 minutes while the engines oil and coolant are getting up to operational temps and the parts stabilize, it usually takes 7-10 minutes of normal low speed street driving for oil to reach optimal operational temps.
oil temps normally run 10F-15F higher than coolant temps in most engines under cruise conditions but spike higher rapidly under high loads or under rapid rpm increases

oil temperatures below about 180F don,t allow the oil to flow and function correctly, and oil temps over about 230F slowly form varnishes and sludge the higher the temps the faster the oil degrades

Some experts estimate that the wear on the rings of an internal combustion engine is as high as 0.001" per 1000 miles of operation when the oil temperature is below 170 degrees F. If the maximum allowable wear is 0.006", how long can you run your engine when the oil temperature is below 170 degrees before you wear it out?"
img212.gif

enginelifea.jpg


ringheat.jpg

hotrod said:
For a dual-purpose car, engine oil needs to be at least 220 degrees F to burn off all the deposits and accumulated water vapor. For every pound of fuel burned in an engine, the combustion process also generates a pound of water! If engine sump temperatures rarely exceed 212 degrees (water’s boiling point), the water will mix with sulfur (another combustion by-product) and create acids that can eventually damage bearings.

As for ultimate power potential, the general consensus among most racers is that hot oil and cool water make more power in most engines. Cold engine oil causes excessive frictional drag on the bearings and cylinder walls. A quality conventional motor oil will tolerate oil sump temperatures of up to 250 degrees, but starts breaking down over 275 degrees. The traditional approach is to try to hold oil temperatures between 230 and 260 degrees. Even on a short-duration, drag-only combo where oil is frequently changed, I would not want to routinely see under-200-degree oil temps.

READ THRU THESE THREADS

http://www.le-international.com/uploads ... linder.pdf

http://www.elephantracing.com/techtopic ... rature.htm

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=65

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2102

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=64

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187
 
Last edited by a moderator:

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
Racing Oil lab tests - and others

Postby 540 RAT » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:43 pm
All samples were taken from brand new, thoroughly shaken bottles of oil. And all tests were performed at ALS Tribology, formerly Staveley Labs, in Sparks, Nevada. The oil samples are put into a Spectrometer which generates the results. This prevents the possibility of a technician introducing human error.

Brief overview/comparison of High Performance and Racing Oil:

Lucas 10W30 Racing Only
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2943 ppm
Total anti-wear = 7895 ppm***

Redline 30 wt Race Oil
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2059 ppm
Total anti-wear = 5494 ppm**

Joe Gibbs 10W30 XP3 Racing Oil
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 620 ppm
Total anti-wear = 2670 ppm

Joe Gibbs 10W30 HR-4 Hot Rod Oil
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 3134 ppm
Total anti-wear = 2408 ppm

Royal Purple 5W30 XPR (Extreme Performance Racing)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 3050 ppm
Total anti-wear = 2963 ppm, plus their proprietary “Synerlec” extreme pressure additive that does not show up in basic lab tests
Note: This particular RP XPR oil info has been posted previously, but it is included here for comparison purposes.

Royal Purple 10W30 HPS (High Performance Street)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 3676 ppm
Total anti-wear = 3310 ppm, plus their proprietary “Synerlec” extreme pressure additive that does not show up in basic lab tests
Note: This particular RP HPS oil info has been posted previously, but it is included here for comparison purposes.

Valvoline NSL (Not Street Legal) 10W30 conventional Racing Oil
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 1618 ppm
Total anti-wear = 3971 ppm

Valvoline VR1 10W30 Racing Oil (Silver Bottle)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2787 ppm
Total anti-wear = 3019 ppm

Valvoline VR1 10W30 "SYNTHETIC" Racing Oil API SL (Black Bottle)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2683 ppm
Total anti-wear = 2454 ppm

Brad Penn 10W30 Penn-Grade 1 High Performance Oil
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 3173 ppm
Total anti-wear = 3211 ppm

Brad Penn 0W30 Penn-Grade 1 High Performance Oil
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2939 ppm
Total anti-wear = 3058 ppm


----------------------

Brief overview/comparison of Mainstream Oil:

Mobil 1 5W30 API SN
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 1489 ppm
Total anti-wear = 1755 ppm

Mobil 1 5W30 Extended Performance - 15,000 miles API SN
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 1697 ppm
Total anti-wear = 1813 ppm

Quaker State 5W30 Ultimate Durability API SN
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2845 ppm
Total anti-wear = 1870 ppm

Valvoline 5W30 SYNPower API SN
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2628 ppm
Total anti-wear = 1730 ppm

Castrol 5W30 Edge w/ Titanium API SN
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 1810 ppm
Total anti-wear = 1835 ppm

Pennzoil 5W30 Ultra API SM
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 3387 ppm
Total anti-wear = 1684 ppm

Royal Purple 5W30 API SN
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2834 ppm
Total anti-wear = 1759 ppm, plus their proprietary Synerlec extreme pressure additive that does not show up in basic lab tests

Royal Purple 5W20 API SN
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2875 ppm
Total anti-wear = 1856 ppm, plus their proprietary Synerlec extreme pressure additive that does not show up in basic lab tests

--------------------------

Detailed info of High Performance and Racing Oil:

Lucas 10W30 Racing Only (lab tested 2011)
Silicon = 18 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = <5 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 1 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 2929 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 9 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2943 ppm
Zinc = 2642 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 3489 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 1764 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 7895 ppm***
Potassium = <5 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 9 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Tin = 23 ppm (from bearings, bronze parts and piston coatings, but this is brand new oil……..)
TBN = 9.0 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 11.5 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.

***NOTE: The zinc and phosphorus anti-wear levels of all oil in this list, are elemental values, which are NOT the same as ZDDP values. Earlier oil industry testing found that above .14% or 1,400 ppm, ZDDP INCREASED long term wear, even though break-in wear was reduced. And it was also found that .20% or 2,000 ppm ZDDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling.

But the correlation between elemental values and ZDDP values varies by motor oil manufacturer, and they do NOT publish their ZDDP values. That makes it difficult to impossible for the consumer to know how elemental and ZDDP values actually compare for any particular oil. However, these elemental values are so extremely high here, that this oil really is only suited for short life dedicated racing engines, as the name implies. Using zinc/phos levels this high in other engines could be cause for concern, since excessively high levels, used for more than just break-in, can “cause” engine damage rather than “prevent” it.

This by Brad Penn:
There is such a thing as too much ZDDP.
ZDDP is surface aggressive, and too much can be a detriment.
ZDDP fights for the surface, blocking other additive performance.
Acids generated due to excessive ZDDP contact will “tie-up” detergents thus encouraging corrosive wear.
ZDDP effectiveness plateaus, more does NOT translate into more protection. Only so much is utilized.
We don’t need to saturate our oil with ZDDP.


Redline 30wt Race Oil (lab tested 2011)
Silicon = 23 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = 70 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 4 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 1982 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 3 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2059 ppm
Zinc = 2207 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 2052 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 1235 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 5494 ppm**
Potassium = <5 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 20 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Tin = 18 ppm (from bearings, bronze parts and piston coatings, but this is brand new oil…….)
TBN = 5.0* (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 9.9 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.

**NOTE: The zinc and phosphorus anti-wear levels of all oil in this list, are elemental values, which are NOT the same as ZDDP values. Earlier oil industry testing found that above .14% or 1,400 ppm, ZDDP INCREASED long term wear, even though break-in wear was reduced. And it was also found that .20% or 2,000 ppm ZDDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling.

But the correlation between elemental values and ZDDP values varies by motor oil manufacturer, and they do NOT publish their ZDDP values. That makes it difficult to impossible for the consumer to know how elemental and ZDDP values actually compare for any particular oil. However, these elemental values are high enough here, that this oil really is only suited for short life dedicated racing engines, as the name implies. Using zinc/phos levels this high in other engines could be cause for concern, since excessively high levels, used for more than just break-in, can “cause” engine damage rather than “prevent” it.

This by Brad Penn:
There is such a thing as too much ZDDP.
ZDDP is surface aggressive, and too much can be a detriment.
ZDDP fights for the surface, blocking other additive performance.
Acids generated due to excessive ZDDP contact will “tie-up” detergents thus encouraging corrosive wear.
ZDDP effectiveness plateaus, more does NOT translate into more protection. Only so much is utilized.
We don’t need to saturate our oil with ZDDP.
*NOTE: The low TBN value in this Redline oil is also consistent with short term use only.

Joe Gibbs 10W30 XP3 Racing Oil (lab tested 2011)
NOTE: Some of the numbers here were so unusual and unexpected, that I had the lab re-test the oil sample on another day, after other oil tests showed normal results, just to ensure that the original test was valid. And the re –test came back with the exact same numbers. So, the numbers here, are what they are. But we know this line of oil works incredibly well. Because it was developed for, and is used by, winning Sprint Cup NASCAR teams.
Silicon = 4 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = 259 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 1 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 356 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 4 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 620 ppm
Zinc = 743 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 802 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 1125 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 2670 ppm
Potassium = 5 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 5 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
TBN = 1.8 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 12.2 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.

The detergent and TBN levels are so very low here, that this oil should most likely be changed after every outing, before those components are totally exhausted.

This oil line is one of the leading oils used in NASCAR Sprint Cup endurance engines, yet it has very low levels of zinc/phos, about the same as modern API SN oils. So, this is one example of a textbook case showing that you cannot really depend on elemental zinc/phos numbers alone, to predict how well an oil can protect against wear in high HP, high RPM engines. If you looked at the zinc/phos levels alone, like so many folks do, you’d think this oil should only be used in granny’s late model grocery getter.

This is something that the Royal Purple folks have said all along as well. Because their proprietary “Synerlec” additive is their primary extreme pressure additive, and their zinc/phos levels are only icing on the cake and do not need to be as high as it does with other oils.

The only way to really know how oils compare to each other with regard to preventing metal to metal contact, is to perform lab testing (quickest and most controlled method, particularly when testing a large number of oils) or real world on the road or on the track testing (time consuming, not well controlled, and perhaps impractical if a lot of oils are involved). This way you can test the whole additive package along with its base oil, to see how the overall product actually works. Simply looking at an oil lab test printout, is not enough information to always give you the right answer.

It’s the same thing with a new engine. You don’t just look at its build sheet to really see how well it will perform. You test it on the dyno and/or on the track (or road), to see the real deal.

So, with all that in mind, I’ve ordered an oil wear tester. And in the coming months, I’ll be performing impartial testing of all the oils on this list, and maybe a few others, to see how they rank against each other. I don’t really care which one wins or how they rank. I just want to “KNOW” which one wins and how they rank, so that I can make a better informed decision as to which oil I want to run in my own motors. I have no problem switching brands if the test results show the need to do so. Once I put all that data together, I’ll post the results for anyone interested in seeing it.



Joe Gibbs 10W30 HR-4 Hot Rod Oil (lab tested 2011)
Silicon = 4 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = 6 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 164 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 2964 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 0 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 3134 ppm
Zinc = 1247 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 1137 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 24 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 2408 ppm
Potassium = <5 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 2 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
TBN = 9.4 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 11.6 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.


Royal Purple 5W30 XPR (Extreme Performance Racing) (lab tested 2008)
Silicon = 4 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = 1 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 10 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 3039 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 0 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 3050 ppm
Zinc = 1421 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 1338 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 204 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 2963 ppm, plus their proprietary Synerlec extreme pressure additive that does not show up on basic lab tests
Potassium = 0 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 0 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
TBN = 10.9 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 11.6 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.
Note: This RP XPR oil info has been posted previously, but it is included here for comparison purposes.


Royal Purple 10W30 HPS (High Performance Street) (lab tested 2011)
Silicon = 7 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = <5 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 46 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 3626 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = <1 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 3676 ppm
Zinc = 1774 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 1347 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 189 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 3310 ppm, plus their proprietary Synerlec extreme pressure additive that does not show up in basic lab tests
Potassium = 11 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 2 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
TBN = 10.2 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 11.3 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.
Note: This RP HPS oil info has been posted previously, but it is included here for comparison purposes.


Valvoline NSL (Not Street Legal) 10W30 conventional Racing Oil (lab tested 2011)
Silicon = 6 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = <5 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 5 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 1607 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 2 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 1618 ppm
Zinc = 1669 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 1518 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 784 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 3971 ppm
Potassium = 7 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 190 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Tin = 13 ppm (from bearings, bronze parts and piston coatings, but this is brand new oil……..)
TBN = 4.4**** (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 9.8 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.

****NOTE: The very low TBN value in this NSL oil would require increased oil change frequency, to avoid acid build-up. And Valvoline has said that their NSL oils should be changed at least every 500 miles.

Valvoline VR1 10W30 Racing Oil (Silver Bottle, lab tested 2011)
This one does NOT have the API symbol, but its text says it exceeds API SM
Silicon = 10 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = <5 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 73 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 2707 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 3 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2787 ppm
Zinc = 1472 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 1544 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 3 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 3019 ppm
Potassium = 6 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 380 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
TBN = 7.6 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 11.0 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.


Valvoline VR1 10W30 “SYNTHETIC” Racing Oil API SL (Black Bottle, lab tested 2011)
Silicon = 8 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = <5 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 15 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 2664 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 0 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2683 ppm
Zinc = 1180 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 1112 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 162 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 2454 ppm
Potassium = 5 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 195 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
TBN = 7.4 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 10.4 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.


Brad Penn 10W30 Penn Grade 1 High Performance Oil ( lab tested 2011)
This oil is from Bradford, Pennsylvania, thus the name Brad Penn.
Silicon = 9 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = <5 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 646 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 2518 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 5 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 3173 ppm
Zinc = 1557 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 1651 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 3 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 3211 ppm
Potassium = 5 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 450 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
TBN = 8.7 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 10.3 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.


Brad Penn 0W30 Penn Grade 1 High Performance Oil ( lab tested 2011)
This oil is from Bradford, Pennsylvania, thus the name Brad Penn.
Silicon = 6 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = <5 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 13 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 2922 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 0 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2939 ppm
Zinc = 1621 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 1437 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 0 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 3058 ppm
Potassium = <5 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 2 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
TBN = 8.7 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 10.5 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.

---------------------
The High Performance and Racing Oils on this list that have acceptable levels of all that is needed, and are suitable for High HP Street Hotrods and Street/Strip cars, as well as many dedicated race cars (including flat tappets and bronze dist gears) are:

Joe Gibbs Hot Rod Oil
Royal Purple XPR (Extreme Performance Racing)
Royal Purple HPS (High Performance Street)
Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil (Silver Bottle)
Valvoline VR1 “SYNTHETIC” Racing Oil API SL (Black Bottle)
Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1, High Performance Oil

NOTE: Joe Gibbs oil can be ordered directly from JoeGibbsDriven.com or Amazon.com
These Royal Purple oils can be ordered from Summit or Jegs
These Valvoline oils can be found with limits at some regular Auto Parts Stores, or can be ordered from Jegs, but NOT Summit, as I recall
The Brad Penn oil can be ordered from Amazon.com or from Summit as Howards Cam’s Brad Penn oil
And there are a variety of local shops, etc that carry some of these oils as well

------------------------

Detailed info of Mainstream Oil:

Mobil 1 5W30 API SN (lab tested 2011)
Silicon = 8 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = 87 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 603 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 799 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 0 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 1489 ppm
Zinc = 801 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 842 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 112 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 1755 ppm
Potassium = <5 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 6 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
TBN = 7.5 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 11.5 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.

Mobil 1 5W30 Extended Performance (15,000 miles) API SN (lab tested 2011)
Silicon = 5 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = 89 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 666 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 942 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 0 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 1697 ppm
Zinc = 890 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 819 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 104 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 1813 ppm
Potassium = <5 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 0 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
TBN = 7.9 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 10.5 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.

The detergent, anti-wear and TBN components of this Extended Performance oil are either about average or below average for typical API SN oils (even though some of the components are a little higher than in its standard Mobil 1 counterpart). TBN eventually becomes depleted as miles accumulate on oil in service. That’s “one” of the primary reasons for changing oil in the first place, to replenish the exhausted additive package. And it’s not unusual to see TBN values drop by as much as 60% from the original value, in only 5,000 miles. And with this oil starting out with a fairly low TBN value to begin with, it would seem very unlikely it could ever go a whopping 15,000 miles without having the TBN totally depleted well before reaching that 15,000 mile mark. So, this extended mileage claim appears to be only an unsupported marketing gimmick.

But, for those interested in long drain intervals, I’d suggest sending in a sample of this oil and having it lab tested at about the half way mark of 7,500 miles to see how much, if any, TBN remains. But, of course motor oil is typically already dark, dirty, contaminated and in need of changing by 5,000 miles anyway.

Quaker State 5W30 Ultimate Durability API SN (lab tested 2011)
Silicon = 3 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = <5 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 10 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 2831 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 0 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2845 ppm
Zinc = 877 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 921 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 72 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 1870 ppm
Potassium = <5 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 0 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
TBN = 7.9 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 10.5 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness
NOTE: This bottle’s plastic was so paper thin and flimsy, that just gripping the bottle with the cap off, squeezed oil up, out and all over the place. So, use extra care with this one.


Valvoline 5W30 SYNPower API SN ( lab tested 2011)
Silicon = 5 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = <5 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 19 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 2605 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 0 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2628 ppm
Zinc = 969 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 761 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 0 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 1730 ppm
Potassium = 11 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 205 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
TBN = 7.1 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 10.5 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.


Castrol 5W30 Edge w/ Titanium API SN (lab tested 2011)
Silicon = 4 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = 55 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 1176 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 577 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 2 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 1810 ppm
Zinc = 818 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 883 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 90 ppm (anti-wear)
Titanium = 44 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 1835 ppm
Potassium = <5 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 0 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
TBN = 10.1 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 10.6 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.


Pennzoil 5W30 Ultra API SM (lab tested 2011)
Silicon = 3 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = 363 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 13 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 3011 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 0 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 3387 ppm
Zinc = 806 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 812 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 66 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 1684 ppm
Potassium = <5 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 0 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
TBN = 10.3 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 10.8 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.


Royal Purple 5W30 API SN ( lab tested 2011)
Silicon = 3 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = <5 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 8 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 2822 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 0 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2834 ppm
Zinc = 942 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 817 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 0 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 1759 ppm
Potassium = 6 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 424 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
TBN = 7.7 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 10.3 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.


Royal Purple 5W20 API SN (lab tested 2011)
Silicon = 2 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = <5 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 9 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 2862 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 0 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2875 ppm
Zinc = 964 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 892 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 0 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 1856 ppm, plus their proprietary Synerlec extreme pressure additive that does not show up in basic lab tests
Potassium = <5 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 267 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
TBN = 7.7 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 8.7 (cSt range for SAE 20 is 5.6 to 9.2) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.
 

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil Tests.pdf

read thru this link above it should make you see there really is a huge difference in the protection some oils provide and its rather surprising that those oils might not be the ones many of us use.
I know IM going to be changing what Ive used for years (mobile one) as the formula for that oil changed recently (not for the better) and the price tripled over the last couple years

https://bestfordriver.com/oil/best-differential-fluid/

from a different test
Motor Oil Wear Test Results and Ranking

*** The higher the psi result, the higher the “Load carrying capacity/Film strength”, and the better the oil is at preventing wear.

*** All oils were tested at 230* F (representative of actual running temperature).

*** Multiple tests were performed on each oil, and those results were averaged to arrive at each oil’s final value shown below. Differences between oils of 10% or less, are not significant, and oils within that range can be considered approximately equivalent.

*** All oil bottles were thoroughly shaken before the samples were taken. This ensured that all the additive package components were distributed uniformly throughout all the oil in the bottle, and not settled to the bottom.

*** All oils are full synthetic unless otherwise specified.

*** All oils are suitable for street use unless otherwise specified.


Oil categories:

*** Over 90,000 psi = OUTSTANDING protection

*** 75,000 to 90,000 psi = GOOD protection

*** 60,000 to 75,000 psi = MODEST protection

*** Below 60,000 psi = UNACCEPTABLE protection




1. 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM = 115,612 psi
I have not been able to find this oil with the latest API SN certification. The bottle says, “No leading synthetic oil provides better wear protection . For once, a product hype turns out to be true.
zinc = 806 ppm
phos = 812 ppm
moly = 66 ppm

2. 10W30 Lucas Racing Only = 106,505 psi
zinc = 2642 ppm
phos = 3489 ppm
moly = 1764 ppm
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

3. 5W30 Mobil 1, API SN = 105,875 psi
zinc = 801 ppm
phos = 842 ppm
moly = 112 ppm

4. 0W30 Amsoil Signature Series 25,000 miles, API SN = 105,008 psi
zinc = 824 ppm
phos = 960 ppm
moly = 161 ppm

******* 10% below number 1 = 104,051 psi ********


5. 10W30 Valvoline NSL (Not Street Legal) Conventional Racing Oil = 103,846 psi
zinc = 1669 ppm
phos = 1518 ppm
moly = 784 ppm
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

6. 5W50 Motorcraft, API SN = 103,517 psi
zinc = 606 ppm
phos = 742 ppm
moly = 28 ppm

7. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi
zinc = 1472 ppm
phos = 1544 ppm
moly = 3 ppm

8. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Synthetic Racing Oil, API SL (black bottle) = 101,139 psi
zinc = 1180 ppm
phos = 1112 ppm
moly = 162 ppm

9. 5W30 Chevron Supreme conventional, API SN = 100,011 psi
This one only costs $4.29 per quart.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

10. 5W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN = 99,983 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
titanium = TBD


11. 20W50 Castrol GTX conventional, API SN = 96,514 psi
zinc = 610 ppm
phos = 754 ppm
moly = 94 ppm

12. 30 wt Red Line Race Oil = 96,470 psi
zinc = 2207 ppm
phos = 2052 ppm
moly = 1235 ppm
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

13. 0W20 Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy, API SN = 96,364 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

14. 5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, API SN = 95,920 psi
zinc = 877 ppm
phos = 921 ppm
moly = 72 ppm

15. 5W30 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN = 95,717 psi
zinc = 818 ppm
phos = 883 ppm
moly = 90 ppm
titanium = 44 ppm

16. 10W30 Joe Gibbs XP3 Racing Oil = 95,543 psi
zinc = 743 ppm
phos = 802 ppm
moly = 1125 ppm
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

17. 5W20 Castrol GTX conventional, API SN = 95,543 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
NOTE: Oil numbers 16 and 17 were tested weeks apart, but due to the similarities in their wear scar sizes, their averages ended up the same.

18. 5W30 Castrol GTX conventional, API SN = 95,392 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

19. 10W30 Amsoil Z-Rod Oil = 95,360 psi
zinc = 1431 ppm
phos = 1441 ppm
moly = 52 ppm

20. 5W30 Valvoline SynPower, API SN = 94,942 psi
zinc = 969 ppm
phos = 761 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

21. 5W30 Valvoline Premium Conventional, API SN = 94,744 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

22. 5W20 Mobil 1, API SN = 94,663 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

23. 5W20 Valvoline SynPower, API SN = 94,460 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

******** 20% below number 1 = 92,490 psi ********

24. 5W30 Lucas conventional, API SN = 92,073 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

25. 5W30 O'Reilly (house brand) conventional, API SN = 91,433 psi
This one only costs $3.99 per quart.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

26. 5W30 Red Line, API SN = 91,028 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

27. 5W20 Royal Purple API SN = 90,434 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

28. 5W20 Valvoline Premium Conventional, API SN = 90,144 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD


************ GOOD PROTECTION **********


29. 30 wt Castrol Heavy Duty conventional, API SM = 88,089
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

30. 10W30 Joe Gibbs HR4 Hotrod Oil = 86,270 psi
zinc = 1247 ppm
phos = 1137 ppm
moly = 24 ppm

31. 5W20 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM = 86,034 psi
I have not been able to find this oil with the latest API SN certification.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

32. 5W30 Royal Purple API SN = 84,009 psi
zinc = 942 ppm
phos = 817 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

33. 20W50 Royal Purple API SN = 83,487 psi
zinc = 588 ppm
phos = 697 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

34. 5W30 Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15,000 mile, API SN = 83,263 psi
zinc = 890 ppm
phos = 819 ppm
moly = 104 ppm

35. 0W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN = 82,867 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

******** 30% below number 1 = 80,928 psi ********


**************** MODEST PROTECTION ************

36. 5W30 Royal Purple XPR (Extreme Performance Racing) = 74,860 psi
zinc = 1421 ppm
phos = 1338 ppm
moly = 204 ppm
NOTE: This particular bottle of oil was just opened, but was out of a 3 ½ year old case.

37. Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 Nitro 70 Racing Oil (semi-synthetic) = 72,003 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

38. 0W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 (semi-synthetic) = 71,377 psi
zinc = 1621 ppm
phos = 1437 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

39. 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 (semi-synthetic) = 71,206 psi
zinc = 1557 ppm
phos = 1651 ppm
moly = 3 ppm

40. 15W50 Mobil 1, API SN = 70,235 psi
zinc = 1,133 ppm
phos = 1,168 ppm
moly = 83 ppm

******** 40% below number 1 = 69,367 psi ********

41. 5W30 Motorcraft, API SN = 68,782 psi
zinc = 796 ppm
phos = 830 ppm
moly = 75 ppm

42. 10W30 Royal Purple HPS (High Performance Street) = 66,211 psi
zinc = 1774 ppm
phos = 1347 ppm
moly = 189 ppm

43. 10W40 Valvoline 4 Stroke Motorcycle Oil conventional, API SJ = 65,553 psi
zinc = 1154 ppm
phos = 1075 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

44. Royal Purple 10W30 Break-In Oil conventional = 62,931 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

******** 50% below number 1 = 57,806 psi ********


Summary:

Readers can of course do whatever they want with these results. But for me, seeing is believing. The smallest wear scars created by the best oils, were quite impressive. So, now I’ll be choosing oils for my Hotrods and daily drivers from the OUTSTANDING PROTECTION category, in order to have the highest level of protection. There are plenty of different oils in this category, 28 of the 44 to be exact, and they all have 90,000 psi or higher capability. After reading this report, you may never think about motor oil the same way again.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
NASCAR Racing Oil Test Results
Of course I've always known that my carefully generated “motor oil wear protection capability data” was completely accurate, but now my data has been validated and backed-up by a total of FOUR other independent Industry sources. They are as follows:

1. Well known and respected Engineer and Tech Author David Vizard, whose own test data, largely based on real world engine dyno testing, has concluded that more zinc in motor oil can be damaging, more zinc does NOT provide today's best wear protection, and that using zinc as the primary anti-wear component, is outdated technology.

2. The GM Oil Report titled, "Oil Myths from GM Techlink", concluded that high levels of zinc are damaging and that more zinc does NOT provide more wear protection.

3. A motor oil research article written by Ed Hackett titled, "More than you ever wanted to know about Motor Oil", concluded that more zinc does NOT provide more wear protection, it only provides longer wear protection.

4. This from the Brad Penn Oil Company:
There is such a thing as too much ZDDP. ZDDP is surface aggressive, and too much can be a detriment. ZDDP fights for the surface, blocking other additive performance. Acids generated due to excessive ZDDP contact will “tie-up” detergents thus encouraging corrosive wear. ZDDP effectiveness plateaus, more does NOT translate into more protection. Only so much is utilized. We don’t need to saturate our oil with ZDDP.

Those who are familiar with my test data, know that my test results came up with the exact same results stated by all four of those independent sources. So, this is an example where motor oil “Dynamic Wear Testing Under Load” using oil testing equipment, engine dyno testing, Motor Oil Industry testing, and proper motor oil research using only the facts, from a total of five (including my own) independent sources, all converged to agree and come to the same exact conclusion. Back-up validation proof, doesn't get any better than this.

So, with all those sources in total agreement, that should provide more than enough proof to anyone who questioned my test data, that my data is absolutely correct. And that questioning any one of those sources, questions them all, and questions Physics and Chemistry that determined all those identical results. And no sensible person would try to argue against Physics and Chemistry. Because that is a battle no man can win.


**************************

Now, getting to the purpose of this write-up, a NASCAR engine supplier out of North Carolina, was so impressed with the motor oil “Wear Protection Capability Testing” I perform, that they sent me 3 NASCAR Racing Oils they use, for testing. I considered that quite an endorsement, that these guys valued my testing efforts enough to include me, in some of what they do. They have been seeing some wear issues, and wanted to see if I could shed any light on that by testing their oil. They came to the right place.

The NASCAR oils they sent me were:

0W Mobil 1 Racing Oil (this was out of a 55 gallon drum)

0W30 Mobil 1 Racing Oil (this was out of a normal quart bottle)

0W50 Mobil 1 Racing Oil (this was out of a 55 gallon drum)

In addition to performing my normal “Dynamic Wear Testing Under Load”, I also sent all 3 oils to the Professional Lab, ALS Tribology in Sparks, Nevada for them to perform component quantity and viscosity testing. The test results from the lab are:

wornlifters.jpg

many more modern oil formulations lack the correct additives for flat tappet lifters, so be very sure you check to see what oil your using and if its designed for flat tappet lifter applications
0W Mobil 1 Racing Oil synthetic (lab tested 2013)
Silicon = 7 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)

Boron = 74 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)

Magnesium = 14 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)

Calcium = 1938 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)

Barium = 0 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)

Zinc = 1952 ppm (anti-wear)

Phos = 1671 ppm (anti-wear)

Moly = 1743 ppm (anti-wear)

Potassium = 4 ppm (anti-freeze corrosion inhibitor)

Sodium = 1 ppm (anti-freeze corrosion inhibitor)

TBN = 8.2 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9)

Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 6.1, and cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.



0W30 Mobil 1 Racing Oil synthetic (lab tested 2013)
Silicon = 17 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)

Boron = 67 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)

Magnesium = 13 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)

Calcium = 1823 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)

Barium = 10 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)

Zinc = 1693 ppm (anti-wear)

Phos = 1667 ppm (anti-wear)

Moly = 1326 ppm (anti-wear)

Potassium = 4 ppm (anti-freeze corrosion inhibitor)

Sodium = 1 ppm (anti-freeze corrosion inhibitor)

TBN = 8.0 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9)

Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 11.3 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.



0W50 Mobil 1 Racing Oil synthetic (lab tested 2013)
Silicon = 8 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)

Boron = 74 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)

Magnesium = 212 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)

Calcium = 1694 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)

Barium = 0 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)

Zinc = 1676 ppm (anti-wear)

Phos = 1637 ppm (anti-wear)

Moly = 1263 ppm (anti-wear)

Potassium = 4 ppm (anti-freeze corrosion inhibitor)

Sodium = 0 ppm (anti-freeze corrosion inhibitor)

TBN = 8.4 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9)

Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 17.6, cSt range for SAE 50 is 16.3 to 21.8, and cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.


*****************************


After I performed my “Dynamic Wear Testing Under Load”, you can see below how those 3 NASCAR oils ranked regarding “Wear Protection Capability”, just among other Mobil 1 oils I’ve tested, as well as among other oils I’ve tested that had “Racing Oil” in their name. And they are all ranked in the order of their “Wear Protection Capability” values.

Wear protection reference categories are:

Over 90,000 psi = OUTSTANDING wear protection

• 75,000 to 90,000 psi = GOOD wear protection

• 60,000 to 75,000 psi = MODEST wear protection

• Below 60,000 psi = UNDESIRABLE wear prot
ection

The HIGHER the psi value, the BETTER the Wear Protection.




1. 10W30 Lucas Racing Only synthetic = 106,505 psi
zinc = 2642 ppm
phosphorus = 3489 ppm
moly = 1764 ppm
calcium = 2,929 ppm


2. 5W30 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic, street oil = 105,875 psi
zinc = 801 ppm
phosphorus = 842 ppm
moly = 112 ppm
calcium = 799 ppm


3. 10W30 Valvoline NSL (Not Street Legal) Conventional Racing Oil = 103,846 psi
zinc = 1669 ppm
phosphorus = 1518 ppm
moly = 784 ppm
calcium = 1,607 ppm


4. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi
zinc = 1472 ppm
phosphorus = 1544 ppm
moly = 3 ppm
calcium = 2,707 ppm


5. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Synthetic Racing Oil, API SL (black bottle) = 101,139 psi
zinc = 1180 ppm
phosphorus = 1112 ppm
moly = 162 ppm
calcium = 2,664 ppm


6. 10W30 Amsoil Dominator Racing Oil synthetic = 97,118 psi
zinc = 1613 ppm
phos = 1394 ppm
moly = 0 ppm


7. 30 wt Red Line Race Oil synthetic = 96,470 psi
zinc = 2207 ppm
phos = 2052 ppm
moly = 1235 ppm


8. 0W20 Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy, API SN synthetic, street oil = 96,364 psi
zinc = 742 ppm
phos = 677 ppm
moly = 81 ppm

9. 10W30 Joe Gibbs XP3 NASCAR Racing Oil synthetic = 95,543 psi
zinc = 743 ppm
phos = 802 ppm
moly = 1125 ppm



10. 5W30 Maxima RS530 Synthetic Racing Oil = 91,162 psi
zinc = 2162 ppm
phos = 2294 ppm
moly = 181 ppm

11. 20W50 LAT Synthetic Racing Oil, API SM = 87,930 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

12. 5W30 Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15,000 mile, API SN synthetic, street oil = 83,263 psi
zinc = 890 ppm
phos = 819 ppm
moly = 104 ppm

13. 5W30 LAT Synthetic Racing Oil, API SM = 81,800 psi
zinc = 1784 ppm
phos = 1539 ppm
moly = 598 ppm

14. 5W30 Royal Purple XPR (Extreme Performance Racing) synthetic = 74,860 psi
zinc = 1421 ppm
phos = 1338 ppm
moly = 204 ppm

15. 0W50 Mobil 1 Racing Oil = 73,811 psi
zinc = 1676 ppm
phos = 1637 ppm
moly = 1263 ppm
Onset of thermal breakdown = 270*F

16. 0W30 Mobil 1 Racing Oil = 71,923 psi
zinc = 1693 ppm
phos = 1667 ppm
moly = 1326 ppm
Onset of thermal breakdown = 280*F

17. 15W50 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic, street oil = 70,235 psi
zinc = 1,133 ppm
phos = 1,168 ppm
moly = 83 ppm

18. 5W30 Klotz Estorlin Racing Oil, API SL synthetic = 64,175 psi
zinc = 1765 ppm
phos = 2468 ppm
moly = 339 ppm

19. 0W20 Klotz Estorlin Racing Oil, API SL synthetic = 60,941 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

20. 10W40 Torco TR-1 Racing Oil with MPZ conventional = 59,905 psi
zinc = 1456 ppm
phos = 1150 ppm
moly = 227 ppm

21. 10W40 Summit Racing Premium Racing Oil, API SL = 59,483 psi
This oil is made for Summit by I.L.C.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
NOTE: This oil line was discontinued in Spring 2013.

22. 0W20 LAT Synthetic Racing Oil, API SM = 57,228 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

23. 0W Mobil 1 Racing Oil = 55,080 psi
zinc = 1952 ppm
phos = 1671 ppm
moly = 1743 ppm
Onset of thermal breakdown = 210*F, which was confirmed by repeated tests. This is the WORST/LOWEST onset of thermal breakdown point I’ve ever seen. So, this oil is STARTING TO FAIL even before getting hot enough to quickly boil off normal water condensation. And this is on top of its very poor wear protection capability. Mobil should be embarrassed to even offer this oil for sale.



So, as you can see, these Mobil 1 Racing Oils were poorly ranked at 15th, 16th and 23rd, out of these 23 oils above.

And if you look at my “Wear Protection Ranking List” of all 104 oils I’ve tested so far, you’ll see they rank 65th, 72nd and 99th.

The wind-up is that the 0W50 Mobil 1 Racing Oil and the 0W30 Mobil 1 Racing Oil only provide MODEST wear protection, while the 0W Mobil 1 Racing Oil only provides UNDESIRABLE wear protection. So, it is quite clear that these modest/poor performing motor oils are NOT a good choice for NASCAR small block endurance engines that make around 900HP, rev between 9,000 and 10,000 rpm, and do that for hundreds of miles. For applications like this, choosing an oil is just as important as choosing the engine components.

All 3 of these oils might look good on paper for wear protection, since the zinc, phos and moly are all substantial. However, this is yet another example of how looking at a Lab Test Print Out of an oil’s component quantities, shows you absolutely nothing regarding how well it can protect against wear. The ONLY way to determine the FACTS as to how well an oil can protect against wear, is to perform “Dynamic Wear Testing Under Load”, which is precisely why I test oil that way.

You don’t just rely on an engine’s build sheet to guess its power/torque characteristics. You dyno test it and track test it, to find out how it really performs in operation. It’s the same thing with testing motor oil. You don’t just rely on an oil’s Lab Test Print Out, you need to test it dynamically at a representative operational temperature to find out what its wear protection capabilities really are.

The wear issues this NASCAR engine supplier was experiencing with these oils, is exactly what you would expect by looking at my “Dynamic Wear Testing Under Load” test results, which showed that the oils were severely lacking in wear protection capability. Unfortunately, they had no way of knowing this before they started using these oils. But, if I had tested these oils BEFORE they started using them, I could have saved them time, money and grief.

An oil’s ability to protect against wear, is determined by its base oil and its additive package “as a whole”, NOT just by how much zinc is present. Using zinc as the primary anti-wear component, is outdated technology. The idea that you need a high level of zinc for a high level of wear protection, is simply an old MYTH that has been BUSTED. Many of today’s anti-wear components (they are often proprietary in nature, and are not specifically tested for, in a basic Lab Test) are not only equal to zinc, but they are BETTER than zinc.

Until I started performing Tribology Research, and setup my motor oil “Wear Protection Capability Ranking List”, there was no good way to know which oils provided good wear protection, and which oils didn’t. Previously, all we could do was guess, or use trial and error to determine which oil was good enough, and which oil was not. And even then, we had no way of knowing how various “good enough” oils compared among themselves. But now, we have documented wear test data available. So, all we have to do is look at the Ranking List, and choose an oil that provides the wear protection we are comfortable with for any given build. This is the 21st Century, and we no longer have to guess or use trial and error to decide on which oil to use.

Also, engines are best served by using oils that have excellent wear protection capability (no matter how much zinc is in them) during Break-In. If folks use these superior oils, and avoid traditional high zinc, low wear protection capability Break-In oils and avoid aftermarket zinc additives which actually REDUCE an oil’s wear protection capability, worries about flat tappet Break-In procedures could become a thing of the past.

The “Wear Protection” test data here DIRECTLY APPLIES to flat tappet lobe/lifter interfaces (no matter how wicked the engine), distributor gear/cam gear interfaces, mechanical fuel pump pushrod tip/cam eccentric interfaces, and all highly loaded engine interfaces.


BOTTOM LINE:
I have no doubt that this Professional NASCAR engine supplier is using good quality engine components, and that they are building their engines well, so all they need to do is select better oils, and their wear issues will go away. Fortunately, there are many, many far better oils available for them to choose from. Even 5W30 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic street oil, that is available at any Auto Parts Store, provides a whopping 47% MORE WEAR PROTECTION than the 0W30 Mobil 1 Racing Oil.

Of course, there can be friction reduction capability differences between street oil and Racing Oil. And keep in mind, that friction reduction and wear protection are two entirely different things, and often do not go hand in hand. If a particular Racing Oil does provide reduced friction, that can increase HP. But, you still have to finish, and you have to run strong to win. So, no matter what, your oil has to provide adequate wear protection to get the job done.

If I were choosing the oils for this NASCAR endurance engine application, as an Engineer, I’d only select oils from the OUTSTANDING wear protection category, which means oils that produce at least 90,000 psi capability in my testing. Any oil in that category would provide sufficient margin of safety to prevent any further wear issues.

***************


If you’d like to see my entire 104 motor oil “Wear Protection Ranking List”, along with additional motor oil tech info, here’s a link:

http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

540 RAT
Member SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers)
 

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
http://www.stle.org/resources/lubelearn ... on/#fluids

http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oi ... lained.htm

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Rea ... -viscosity

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Rea ... importance

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Rea ... ion-basics

yeah! you don,t care to read links!
well youll tend to miss a good deal of critical info if you don,t take that effort!

  • Quote:
Over the years there has been an overabundance of engine oil myths. Here are some facts you may want to pass along to customers to help debunk the fiction behind these myths.
The Pennsylvania Crude Myth -- This myth is based on a misapplication of truth. In 1859, the first commercially successful oil well was drilled in Titusville, Pennsylvania.

A myth got started before World War II claiming that the only good oils were those made from pure Pennsylvania crude oil. At the time, only minimal refining was used to make engine oil from crude oil. Under these refining conditions, Pennsylvania crude oil made better engine oil than Texas crude or California crude. Today, with modern refining methods, almost any crude can be made into good engine oil.
Other engine oil myths are based on the notion that the new and the unfamiliar are somehow "bad."

The Detergent Oil Myth -- The next myth to appear is that modern detergent engine oils
are bad for older engines. This one got started after World War II, when the government no longer needed all of the available detergent oil for the war effort, and detergent oil hit the market as “heavy-duty” oil.

Many pre-war cars had been driven way past their normal life, their engines were full of sludge and deposits, and the piston rings were completely worn out. Massive piston deposits were the only thing standing between merely high oil consumption and horrendous oil consumption. After a thorough purge by the new detergent oil, increased oil consumption was a possible consequence.

If detergent oils had been available to the public during the war, preventing the massive deposit buildup from occurring in the first place, this myth never would have started. Amazingly, there are still a few people today, 60 years later, who believe that they need to use non-detergent oil in their older cars. Apparently, it takes many years for an oil myth to die.

The Synthetic Oil Myth -- Then there is the myth that new engine break-in will not occur with synthetic oils. This one was apparently started by an aircraft engine manufacturer who put out a bulletin that said so. The fact is that Mobil 1 synthetic oil has been the factory-fill for many thousands of engines. Clearly, they have broken in quite well, and that should put this one to rest.

The Starburst Oil Myth -- The latest myth promoted by the antique and collector car press says that new Starburst/ API SM engine oils (called Starburst for the shape of the symbol on the container) are bad for older engines because the amount of anti-wear additive in them has been reduced. The anti-wear additive being discussed is zinc dithiophosphate (ZDP).

Before debunking this myth, we need to look at the history of ZDP usage. For over 60 years, ZDP has been used as an additive in engine oils to provide wear protection and oxidation stability.

ZDP was first added to engine oil to control copper/lead bearing corrosion. Oils with a phosphorus level in the 0.03% range passed a corrosion test introduced in 1942.

In the mid-1950s, when the use of high-lift camshafts increased the potential for scuffing and wear, the phosphorus level contributed by ZDP was increased to the 0.08% range.

In addition, the industry developed a battery of oil tests (called sequences), two of which were valve-train scuffing and wear tests.

A higher level of ZDP was good for flat-tappet valve-train scuffing and wear, but it turned out that more was not better. Although break-in scuffing was reduced by using more phosphorus, longer-term wear increased when phosphorus rose above 0.14%. And, at about 0.20% phosphorus, the ZDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling.

By the 1970s, increased antioxidancy was needed to protect the oil in high-load engines, which otherwise could thicken to a point where the engine could no longer pump it. Because ZDP was an inexpensive and effective antioxidant, it was used to place the phosphorus level in the 0.10% range.

However, phosphorus is a poison for exhaust catalysts. So, ZDP levels have been reduced over the last 10-15 years. It's now down to a maximum of 0.08% for Starburst oils. This was supported by the introduction of modern ashless antioxidants that contain no phosphorus.

Enough history. Let's get back to the myth that Starburst oils are no good for older engines. The argument put forth is that while these oils work perfectly well in modern, gasoline engines equipped with roller camshafts, they will cause catastrophic wear in older engines equipped with flat-tappet camshafts.

The facts say otherwise.

Backward compatibility was of great importance when the Starburst oil standards were developed by a group of experts from the OEMs, oil companies, and oil additive companies. In addition, multiple oil and additive companies ran no-harm tests on older engines with the new oils; and no problems were uncovered.

The new Starburst specification contains two valve-train wear tests. All Starburst oil formulations must pass these two tests.

- Sequence IVA tests for camshaft scuffing and wear using a single overhead camshaft engine with slider finger (not roller) followers.

- Sequence IIIG evaluates cam and lifter wear using a V6 engine with a flat-tappet system, similar to those used in the 1980s.
Those who hold onto the myth are ignoring the fact that the new Starburst oils contain about the same percentage of ZDP as the oils that solved the camshaft scuffing and wear issues back in the 1950s. (True, they do contain less ZDP than the oils that solved the oil thickening issues in the 1960s, but that's because they now contain high levels of ashless antioxidants not commercially available in the 1960s.)

Despite the pains taken in developing special flat-tappet camshaft wear tests that these new oils must pass and the fact that the ZDP level of these new oils is comparable to the level found necessary to protect flat-tappet camshafts in the past, there will still be those who want to believe the myth that new oils will wear out older engines.

Like other myths before it, history teaches us that it will probably take 60 or 70 years for this one to die also.

- Thanks to Bob Olree – GM Powertrain Fuels and Lubricants Group
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
540rat said:
Real World experience EXACTLY matches Motor Oil Test Data
540rat said:
I’m aware that most, if not all, of my Oil Test Data Forum critics, don’t even bother to read the motor oil information I provide. So, they never see all the real world experience references that exactly match my test data. They just make negative untrue comments right off the top, completely unaware of the information I provide, that all came directly from the scientific FACTS generated by the Physics and Chemistry, that determine the test data results. Nor do they even know that I have already addressed most anything they ever come up with, which shows that their comments are without merit.

If they ignore my data, that is their loss. But, it doesn’t affect me one way or the other, since I have no involvement with selling motor oil or motor oil additives. But, what is worse than them losing out on valuable information that they can benefit from, is that there are some people who aren’t sure about the whole thing, who may follow the bad information the critics mistakenly believe and put out there even though they don't understand that it is worthless info.

The old belief that any high zinc oil will provide sufficient wear protection for any engine has never been true, but gullible people have been brainwashed to believe it anyway. And repeating completely false information a million times, does NOT magically make it become true. The fact is, flat tappet lobes are still being wiped while using high zinc oils, because people are following bad advice from critics and even Cam Companies, who simply don't know what they are talking about when it comes to motor oil.

As for the Oil Companies themselves, many of them, especially the smaller Oil Companies, practice blatant false advertising, with the only goal being to make money off unsuspecting buyers. And few of them ever provide any actual wear test data at all for their high zinc oils. In fact, it is quite obvious that many Oil Companies don't even bother to perform any wear protection capability tests on their oils, to even know how they perform. That leaves buyers with little more than advertising hype to base their motor oil choices on. That is until I began independent and unbiased motor oil wear protection capability Engineering tests, to find out how motor oils truly perform under load, at a normal operating temperature. I am the only one who will provide truthful information, because I have no vested interest in which particular oil people choose to buy. I provide the FACTS just as they came out of my testing, good or bad. And people can decide for themselves which particular oil they want to spend their money on.

The whole idea that all high zinc oils are great, is simply a MYTH that has been busted. And real world experience proves it, the same way my Scientific motor oil test data proves it. If you continue to follow the false belief that any high zinc oil is good enough, you are playing Russian Roulette with your engine. And if you are running a flat tappet engine, you are putting it at extreme risk of failure. If you are running a roller engine, then you may not experience outright failure, but you may well experience unnecessary wear over time, that could have been avoided with a better choice of oil.

So here, I’m including real world experience and how it exactly matched up with my Motor Oil Test Data, which many people have never seen before, since as I said, they don’t actually read my threads or Oil Test Data Blog. No sensible person would argue against real world experience. And precise validation of my Test Data doesn't get any better than this. These examples will prove to any sensible person that my Motor Oil Engineering Test Data is just as valid as all Engineering Test Data that drives Tech Fields the world over. So, read on and decide for yourself. The engine you save may be your own.


OIL TEST DATA AND SEVERE OVER-HEATING EXPERIENCE ARE IDENTICAL
I received the following feedback from one of my Oil Test Data Blog readers:

Hi RAT, I want to share a real world experience about one of the oils you have tested.

About a year ago, my son was driving our old 1999 Toyota Camry, with 230,000 miles on it at the time, in heat of summer. And you know how young kids are today, they don’t know very much about how to look after cars. So, he drives about 45 miles to his destination, and parks it.

By this time, because of a leak from the water pump, most of the coolant is gone. But, because he shuts the engine off and walks away without noticing the leak, the engine cools off. The next day when he wants to drive home, there is no coolant left in engine. But, he doesn't know that, so he starts it up and drives away. After driving about 30 miles on the freeway, it overheats so much that the engine stalls. That’s when I get the call!

After I towed the car home, I filled radiator and noticed the leak from water pump, and the head gasket was leaking into the combustion chamber. So, I knew it had over-heated really bad, TWICE. I expected that the pistons and valves must have been damaged due to the extreme heat. But, after I took the head off, the valves and cylinder walls looked in surprisingly good shape. After I put it back together, it ran as good as before. And it now has 244,000 miles on it.

I then knew, the oil that was in it at the time, played very important role, and had prevented the pistons from being damaged. BUT, that oil wasn’t in your ranking list at the time. So, I always wondered where that oil would it rank if ever tested?

Guess what? Now that you have tested that oil, it ranked near the very top of the Ranking List. It is 5W30 Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage (red bottle).

So if anyone doesn’t want to believe in your oil test ranking, I have to tell them they better believe it. I am positive that it was the high wear protection capability of that motor oil that kept the engine from further damage!!

His experience shows precisely what I've talked about, when I have said that having extra reserve wear protection capability from highly ranked oils, may well save your engine when bad things happen.


OIL TEST DATA AND RACE TRACK EXPERIENCE ARE IDENTICAL
An oval track dirt racer (his class is extremely competitive, so he asked that his name be left out) on the SpeedTalk Forum runs a 7200 rpm, solid flat tappet, 358ci Small Block Chevy motor, with valve spring pressures of about 160 on the seat and 400 open, that are shimmed to .060” from coil bind. The rules and the combination of parts, were causing him to experience repeated cam failures while using high zinc, semi-synthetic 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 motor oil. Lab Report Data from testing performed by Professional Lab, “ALS Tribology” in Sparks, Nevada, showed that this oil contains 1557 ppm zinc, 1651 ppm phosphorus, and 3 ppm moly. In spite of this being a high zinc oil, that most folks would “assume” provides excellent wear protection, he experienced wiped lobe cam failure about every 22 to 25 races.

A race consists of one 8 lap (a lap is typically 3/8 mile) heat race and one 20 lap feature race, plus any caution laps. If you add it all up, 25 races only total about 281 miles at the point of cam failure. So, that is a perfect example of what I’ve been saying all along about high zinc levels being absolutely NO GUARANTEE of adequate wear protection. And my test data on this 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 motor oil, shows that it produces a wear protection capability of only 71,206 psi, which puts it in the MODEST wear protection category, and it ranks a very disappointing 115th out of 159 oils tested so far. That means of course that there are 114 different oils I’ve tested that provide better wear protection.

So, my test data ACCURATELY PREDICTED EXACTLY what he experienced during racing. And that is, that this oil does not provide high enough wear protection capability to provide a sufficient margin of safety for this engine’s operating conditions. Looking at my “Wear Protection Ranking List” and choosing a much higher ranked oil, would have prevented all those cam failures. Repeatedly suffering cam failures in motors with so little time on them, may have been considered by some folks to be a normal consumption of parts back in the ‘60’s or ‘70’s. But, in the 21st Century that we live in now, by any measure, that is for sure premature failure. We no longer have to accept that as the cost of doing business, because we can do far better now.

So, he switched to the super micro polished billet lifters from PPPC and the cam life went up to 40 races, which was an improvement since he could now go 450 miles between failures. But, that was still clearly unacceptable. Then later on, he started using “Oil Extreme Concentrate” as an additive to the 10W30 Brad Penn, and he’s never lost a lobe on a cam since. Adding the “Oil Extreme Concentrate” completely eliminated his premature wiped lobe cam failures. At the time of this writing, the motor had gone 70+ Races without issue, and was still doing fine. This “Oil Extreme Concentrate” is one additive that actually works as advertised, and makes low ranked oils far better than they were to begin with. And that is PRECISELY WHAT MY MOTOR OIL TEST DATA PREDICTED as well.

Here’s how. I also added “Oil Extreme Concentrate” to 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 semi-synthetic, as part of my motor oil “Dynamic Wear Testing Under Load” research. And with 2.0 OZ of “Oil Extreme Concentrate” added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability shot up by a BREATH TAKING 56%, to an amazing 111,061psi, which puts it in the INCREDIBLE wear protection category, and now ranks it a jaw dropping 6th out of 159 oils tested so far. So, it moved up a whopping 109 ranking positions, just by adding the “Oil Extreme Concentrate”. This totally accounts for the reason all his cam lobe failures were eliminated.

In addition to this, a NASCAR team sent me three high zinc synthetic Mobil 1 Racing Oils for testing, because they were having wear problems when using these oils. Lab Report Data from testing performed on these oils by Professional Lab, “ALS Tribology” in Sparks, Nevada, showed that on average, these oils contained 1774 ppm zinc, 1658 ppm phosphorus, and 1444 ppm moly. And because these were all high zinc oils, most folks would “assume” that they’d provide sufficient wear protection. However, the results of my testing showed that these oils only provided POOR WEAR PROTECTION CAPABILITY. So, they were NOT a good choice for their racing application, which confirmed why they had wear problems. The team then switched to better performing oil, and their wear problems disappeared. So, this is yet another perfect example of what I’ve been saying about high zinc levels being NO GUARENTEE of adequate wear protection. And this example clearly showed once again that my test data EXACTLY MATCHED what this race team had experienced on the track.

These examples PROVE once and for all, that my test data EXACTLY MATCHES REAL WORLD RACE TRACK EXPERIENCE, and that my test data is the spot on REAL DEAL, just as I’ve said all along. This completely confirms that my test results WILL ACCURATELY PREDICT what we can expect from motor oils in running engines on the track or on the street, EVEN if those oils are high zinc oils.


OIL TEST DATA AND WIPED LOBE AT BREAK-IN EXPERIENCE ARE IDENTICAL
A guy on the Corvette Forum, whose name I will leave out, built a replica 454, flat tappet LS6 BBC engine for a 1970 Corvette, using a Crane Cams blueprint LS6 cam and Crane solid lifters. He used Brad Penn Break-In oil, then after initial break-in, he changed the oil to Brad Penn 10W40. Then after about 100 miles he heard a tapping noise. After looking into it, he found a wiped cam lobe and ruined lifter. There were metal particles throughout the entire engine, causing devastation which had damaged the rod and main bearings, the oil pump, and the crankshaft, thus requiring another very costly and time consuming total rebuild.

He has built many engines over the years, always using Crane Cams solid or hydraulic cams and never had a failure. So, he's an experienced engine builder, used parts from Crane Cams, a reputable Industry Leader, and used oil with plenty of zinc. Problem is, he is among those who think any oil is fine, as long as it has plenty of zinc in it. However, my Engineering tests of the Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1, Break-In oil, shows that it produces a film strength load carrying capacity of only 56,020 psi, which ranks it 151st out of 159 oils tested so far, and puts it in the UNDESIRABLE wear protection category, even though it's high in zinc. And my Engineering tests of the 10W40 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1, shows that it produces a film strength load carrying capacity of only 57,864 psi, which ranks it 147th out of 159 oils tested so far, and also puts it in the UNDESIRABLE wear protection category, even though it has a high zinc level. That of course means that 150 other oils provide better wear protection than his Break-In oil, and 146 other oils provide better wear protection than his after break-in oil.

So, this is another example where my test data accurately predicted that using these particular high zinc oils, that provided such low wear protection capability, would put a flat tappet engine at extreme risk of failure during and after break-in. And of course very expensive engine failure is exactly what happened. Selecting a highly ranked oil from my Wear Protection Ranking List, no matter how much zinc is in it, would have provided the engine with far better wear protection. With so many other excellent performing motor oils on the market, it makes no sense to choose oils that are ranked so low on my list, even if they do have a lot of zinc in them. Because high zinc levels are absolutely no guarantee of sufficient wear protection. The line of thinking that you always need a high zinc level, is nothing more than a total MYTH.


OIL TEST DATA AND HIGH PERFORMANCE STREET EXPERIENCE ARE IDENTICAL
And here is one example of a flat tappet High Performance Street Hotrod engine operating just fine with low zinc oils, just as my Test Data predicts. A buddy built a 500 HP, flat tappet, solid lifter, 383ci small block Chevy for his '69 Corvette several years ago. He asked me what oil he should use to break it in and to use later on as well. He wanted to use a conventional oil at that time, that was affordable, and readily available. So, I suggested he use conventional low zinc 5W30 Castrol GTX, API SN, that provided 95,392 psi in my testing, which put it in the OUTSTANDING wear protection category.

He used that oil from day one with no elaborate break-in procedure at all. He just drove the car. It is his only car, so it is his daily driver, which he always drives like he stole it. And he has never had any issue with his cam or lifters. Then a couple of years or so ago he decided he wanted to switch to a synthetic oil that was affordable and readily available, so I suggested he go with low zinc synthetic 5W30 Mobil 1, API SN, that provided 105,875 psi in my testing, which put it in the INCREDIBLE wear protection category.

He has used that oil ever since and still has not had any issue at all with his cam or lifters. He has tens of thousands of hard Hotrod miles on that cam and lifter combo, which is far more miles than most weekend only Hotrods will ever see, and he has never suffered one bit from not using a high zinc oil. So, this is yet another example of the fact that high zinc oils are NOT needed for sufficient wear protection, even in flat tappet engines, and not even for break-in. The only thing that matters, is an oil's film strength load carrying capability. And that is precisely the data my Motor Oil Testing ranks.

540 RAT

Mechanical Engineer

U.S. Patent Holder

Member SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers)

Member ASME (American Society of Mechanical Engineers)

Lifelong Gear Head, Mechanic, Hotrodder, Drag Racer, and Engine Builder.

Motor Oil Tech FACTS, NOT MYTHS:
The independent and unbiased Engineering testing I perform to establish motor oil wear protection capability, is a dynamic friction test under load, similar to how an engine dyno test is a dynamic HP/Torque test under load. Both tests show how their subjects truly perform in the real world, no matter what brand names are involved, no matter what outrageous claims may have been made, and no matter what their spec sheets may say.

You can see my entire 150+ motor oil “Wear Protection Ranking List”, which is "proven" by the Physics and Chemistry involved, and EXACTLY matches real world severe over-heating experience, real world Track experience, real world flat tappet break-in experience, and real world High Performance Street experience (test data validation doesn’t get any better than this), along with additional motor oil tech FACTS, by going to the Blog link below.

This Blog now has over 100,000 views worldwide. Of course simply listing the number of views by itself, is not intended to indicate validation of the test data (validation is shown throughout the Blog). But, indicating the number of views does show that an enormous number of people worldwide recognize the value, understand the importance, and make use of the motor oil test data FACTS included here, that cannot be found anywhere else. And as a result, they are posting and sharing links to this Blog, all over the world. See for yourself.
 
8

87vette81big

Guest
I suppose Grumpy.
I rank with Critic.
540 just does not hang out with us.
Don't know where you get his posts from.
Must be from a Chevy Forum.

At least Castrole GTX & Mobil 1 mentioned and used in his last post.

By the way I just received my Original GM 1965 Oldsmobile Chassis Service manual. Took a long time to find it. Ebay deal for $30 & free shipping .
For my 1965 Olds 425 4-bbl engine project.
They recommend 10w30 oil most year round usage..
 

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
FOUND THIS INTERESTING
There are only two Real Synthetic Oils in America

So you think that all these "Synthetic" oils available for sale in the various stores around the US are true PAO based Motor Oils. Think again. PAO or Polyalphaolefin is the main lab produced synthetic base for Group IV stock Synthetic Oils. Base I, II & III are all dino oils. I'm being really concise on this as it can be researched elsewhere, I'm just posting it to get the point out to the masses.
Since a 1997 court case brought on by Mobil against Castrol (in the US), and subsequently won by Castrol granted anyone to produce their non-PAO Group III base oil and sell it as a full synthetic, again, ONLY in the United States because anything can be bought or decided by the wrong people (courts, not scientists) in the US. So, since 1997 there has really only been one true synthetic oil available for sale in the United States, Mobil 1.
Well, I'm letting everyone in on a little secret. Castrol DOES sell a true synthetic in the US, it just doesn't make it here (which is fine by me). Autozone sells Castrol 0w30 "European Formula" Syntec. Look for the "Made in Germany" on the back of the bottle. See, in Europe the BS that is allowed to fly in the US isn't worth squat before a real set of government standards groups as in Europe. This is one of those few. Castrol SLX (now Castrol Edge). Note again, there are no other versions of Castrol or any other brand you can buy in a store on any given day other than Mobil 1 which are true synthetics.
There are racing specialties and what not, and "Amsoil" which while a true synthetic has some of the sleaziest marketing people in the world. Contrary to what they'd have you believe, Amsoil isn't the secret oil that most race teams use. In my 10 years of Rallying, Hillclimb and Time Trials I believe I've seen Amsoil once. Most people either use a high end conventional from Castrol or Valvoline, or Mobil 1 Synthetic.
Either way, if you DO look at the various tests online, you'll find that Castrol actually does indeed beat Mobil 1 on many levels (though not all), so either really will do well for your synthetic needs. Mobil 1 is generally a little on the thinner side of its viscosity rating (high number), whereas German Castrol (as it is referenced (or simply GC)) is a little on the thick for its equivalent viscosity rating.
If you are running a high performance engine, a turbo engine, a supercharged engine and/or care simply about providing your engine the best care you can in terms of motor oil, you've got those choices for synthetics and nothing else. Caveat emptor.
And if anyone is wondering, the reason why I specifically went for German Castrol is because it has been pretty much designed for the German motor manufacturers. It is the only oil in the United States (synthetic) that passes the stricter of VW, Audi, Mercedes, Opel, BMW and Porsches requirements for engine oil. I drive a Chevrolet Optra5 these days since selling the VW Bora Sport 1.8T and it is powered by a modern evolution of the 1st generation Iron Ecotec by Opel, which just happens to be produced in Melbourne by Holden (GM Australia). The engine is happy now, getting the fluids it truly wants.
https://bestfordriver.com/oil/best-differential-fluid/
the light gray sludge, inside valve covers, is frequently the result of small quantities of moisture trapped in the engine ,
resulting in most cases ,from letting it sit without it being run.
if it clears up, after the engines run for 10-20 minutes,
and you don,t see indications of its return the next day, your most likely fine.
if you park a car with a hot engine in a cold garage or outside over night, it is rather common for moisture too collect inside the valve covers,
this is one reason its generally a good idea for your engines oil temps to exceed 215F for a few minutes or more,
every time its run, as it takes several minutes running time at that temp to vaporize all the micro moisture,
trapped in the engine if its not run on a rather consistent and preventative basis
 
Last edited:

Loves302Chevy

"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
So then I can make a great synthetic blend by using 50% Mobil 1 and 50% Castrol Dino.
This is good to hear, because it is what I did for years when running 100% Mobil 1 became too expensive.
 
Top