will that 10 bolt rear hold up!

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
heres my take,, if youve got a 10 bolt, DUMP IT ! for a decent rear axle!if you have intentions of exceeding about 450 hp.
I had a 1969 camaro with a 12 bolt rear at one time and a 1967 firebird with a 10 bolt rear.
once I started racing with slicks and got the hp up over about 450hp / 450ft lbs NEITHER REAR lasted too long,, (once I started installing STROKE BIG BLOCK CHEVYS IN THE CARS and using nitrous, the stock rear ,even with upgrades was a joke,)I rebuilt both rears with quality components (the 12 bolt several times) I installed a full roll cage and a serious caltrac rear suspension but neither rear lasted under the constant pounding, now I eventually replaced BOTH rears in BOTH cars with DANA 60 rears and never had another issue with the rear in either car, I would never suggest thats the only route but I don,t even bother warring about it in race cars, I just install a DANA 60,with billet , heat treated axles, and quality ring/pinion and bearings and IM done worrying about it, its just beating a dead horse to use a basically stock or slightly upgraded 10 bolt rear in a high hp car, even the 12 bolts a bad joke in my opinion.
ID bet the vast majority of guys never consider swapping or upgrading a rear differential, in their car until forced into it by problems with the seals,bearings,axles,gears etc. until the original rear either fails catastrophically or needs a gear ratio change.
example
after destroying a very expensive 12 bolt chevy rear with dozens of aftermarket components in my 1969 496 BBC engine muncie camaro, I found a 1970 hemi challenger wreck and purchased the rear differential, I added aftermarket gears,bearings and axles and ran the #%$%^ out of the car for years, when I sold the car I made a few bucks swapping a fellow racers 12 bolt rear back into the car so it would look a bit more stock, and he was still racing that dana rear in his 1969 camaro 30 years later(some maintenance obviously)but has gone thru dozens of engines and transmissions in 30 plus years.

when I trashed the original rear in my 1965 Pontiac tempest, I swapped to a STOCK HEMI road runner DANA 60 and never had problems
a properly set up dana 60 is almost bullet proof

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=678&p=8945&hilit=tempest#p8945

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=237&p=1630#p1630


http://www.4secondsflat.com/CalTracs.html

http://www.calvertracing.com/caltracs.html
http://www.calvertracing.com/caltracs-applications.php

http://www.calvertracing.com/caltracs.php

you have two fairly cheap options the LAKEWOOD STYLE traction bars or the CAL TRAC TYPE bars
caltracfirebird.JPG

caltrack bars normally cost about $350 but you can fabricate decent cal trac bars if you have a welder

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=273&hilit=caltrac

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=216&p=7850&hilit=+cal+trac#p7850

http://www.hotrodsandhemis.com/Traction.html
my friend installed a used set of slapper bars he found on Craig's list for $50 , the results were a marked improvement but he still has traction issues if he forgets and just floors the throttle without thinking, hes learned that a slightly more gradual application of the gas petal allows the car to maintain traction now that the slapper bars are installed

READ THIS
http://www.competitionengineering.com/a ... assis2.asp

chs1.gif

The bolt-on "Slapper Bar" is one of the most basic traction devices available. Originally pioneered by Bill "Grumpy" Jenkins in the mid-sixties, it gets its name from the way it works. One end of the Slapper Bar replaces the stock spring pad and is clamped to the rear axle housing. The front end of the bar is suspended just below the spring eye. When the housing begins to rotate during launch, the bar also rotates until it contacts or "slaps" the spring. (Unlike other brands, Competition Engineering Traction Bars make contact directly below the front spring eye, preventing spring damage). When contact occurs, the Slapper Bar becomes a lever trying to push the axle housing down and planting the tires in the process.


chs2.gif

A revolutionary, patented, completely bolt-on traction device, the Slide-A-Link™, designed for both street and strip use is track tested and competition proven to outperform conventional “Slapper” bars. A solid mounted front plate is installed inside the original front spring pocket and clamps to the leaf spring to provide a positive displacement for the torque that is transmitted from the rear axle through the telescoping bar and special durometer shock pad. These forces, along with improved instant center geometry, provide better weight transfer for increased traction. Free travel and pre-load adjustments are made on the vehicle by adjusting the jack screw at the rear of the bar.



lak-21606_w.jpg

LAKEWOOD STYLE traction bars normally cost between $70-$120 there not quite as effective but they work reasonably well.
http://static.summitracing.com/global/i ... _21607.pdf

Caltracs1.jpg


caltracs tend to work better than slapper bars on older leaf spring cars


http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch ... toview=sku

once youve seen axles shear and seen the results the cost of a dana 60 looks like a bargain

typical results of 450hp, slicks and a 10 bolt rear differential



http://www.youtube.com/user/MrMustangMan357

video of what happeneds when a 10 or 12 bolt chevy rear fails at the track
 
this is the perfect time to visit a local salvage yard and upgrade the hopelessly fragile 10 bolt for a 9" ford, or similar heavy duty rear, if this car is raced, simply because the 10 bolt is a joke strength wise,measure the rear and let me know the dimensions

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/STR-PRSA15/

http://www.strangeengineering.net/newpr ... tions.html

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=1934&p=10415&hilit=narrowing#p10415

http://www.strangeengineering.net/newpr ... sheet.html

http://www.chevellestuff.com/tech/rear_end_widths.htm

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/cc ... _axle.html

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/cc ... to_05.html

http://carcraft.automotive.com/94996/cc ... index.html

heres what a FORD 9" looks like with BRACKETS to fit a CHEVELLE
salvage yards commonly sell ford 9" rear differentials for UNDER $150 and a few hours measuring, cutting and welding will allow a skilled hot rodder to do a great deal of the required work, youll need a new drive shaft in most cases but its usually not a huge expense
combination or engine swap u-joints

http://theujointstore.com/cou.html

http://www.actionmachineinc.com/ujointm ... guide.aspx

http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/c130_un ... oints.html


fordchevelle.JPG


IF your dead set on running a 10 bolt differential in a serious performance application with 500 ft lbs of torque or more the clear plastic rear cover ,is a great idea.. that way you can see the shreaded internals without even pulling the rear cover
lex10b.jpg



heres a typical 10 bolt after being subjected to high stress
10vsdana.jpg


10bolt1.jpg

10bolt2.jpg

10bolt3.jpg

blowndiff2.jpg

blowndiff.jpg


viewtopic.php?f=77&t=692&p=963&hilit=+9+ford#p963

http://www.calvertracing.com/caltracs.php

again one more reason a decent welder and the skill to use it is so important to your list of tools

http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2 ... ode=907422

I wonder how many guys realize this welder works on EITHER 220 volt or 110 volt (naturally 110 volt feed limits the out put)

Specifications

Input Power
* 230 V, 25 A, 60 Hz, 1-Phase
* 120 V, 20 A, 60 Hz, 1-Phase

Rated Output
* 150 A at 23.5 VDC, 30% duty cycle (230V)
* 90 A at 20 VDC, 20% duty cycle (120V)

Welding Amperage Range
* 30 - 210 Amps

Wire Speed
* 60 - 460 IPM (1.5 - 11.7 m/min)

Net Weight
* 74lb (33.6 kg)





DAVE POSTED THIS

If you have a question as just how much power your rear end can handle here is a calculator that will tell you just how much stress you are putting upon the axles and differential.

http://www.moserengineering.com/Pages/axletech.html

Knowing how much torque you are applying (this assumes you have perfect traction with only a 10% slippage at your slick) to the axle here is a chart of aftermarket axles listing their failure points (on average).

28 spline axle________1.200" diam. ________ 4,571 lbs.-ft. stock (GM test data)
28 spline axle stub ___1.250" diam. ________ 3,787 lbs.-ft. stock Corvette (Dana 44)
30 spline axle________1.250" diam. ________ 6,473 lbs.-ft. stock (GM test data)
31 spline axle________1.315" diam. ________ 7,000 lbs.-ft. (Ford 8.8" rear)
33 spline axle________1.370" diam. ________ 8,200 lbs.-ft. (GM 14 bolt truck)
35 spline axle________1.500" diam. _______ 9,600 lbs.-ft. (Dana 60)
40 spline axle________1.710" diam. _______ 12,000 lbs.-ft.

Here is a web site with a great graphic that shows why spline count is so important.

http://performanceunlimited.com/documen ... guide.html


Now bear in mind you must further reduce these figures by an additional 10% because that factory uses a cheaper steel alloy and then relies upon on an induction hardening for case strength at only the bearings. Additionally the total torque load is split by half (you have two axles carrying the load). Because of this my 12 bolt rear end is still together with it's 30 spline axles even though I am routinely hammering it with 7,063 lbs-ft of peak torque (582 cid BBC with 697 peak torque, 2.48:1 first gear in my 4L80E transmission, and 4.56:1 rear axle ratio.) But because I have broken rear axles before (among about every other part in the drive train) I am looking at replacing the rear with a Dana 60 that I recommend to everyone. With it's 35 spline axles stock and 40 spline with the use of a spool; it is virtually unbreakable.
 
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Casting numbers found to be the most prevalent in Chevelle 12-bolt rear ends:

1965 Chevelle 3859140N
1966 Chevelle 3875745N
1967 Chevelle 3894939NF
68-69 Chevelle 3917124NF
1969 Chevelle 3959038NF
70-72 Chevelle 3969278NF


Chevrolet
Outside
Width Year Model
57.75 1962-1964 Chevy II/Nova
57.75 1965-1967 Chevy II/Nova
58.00 1978-1988 Chevy Malibu, Monte Carlo
59.50 1968-1982 Corvette
60.00 1955-1964 Chevy Car
60.00 1967-1969 Camaro
60.25 1968-1979 Chevy II/Nova
60.50 1984-1995 Corvette
60.50 1964-1967 Chevelle
62.00 1955-1959 Chevy Pickup
61.25 1968-1972 Chevelle
62.50 1970-1981 Camaro/Firebird

Ford
Outside
Width Year Model
57.25 1957-1959 Ford, Ranchero, Station Wagon
57.25 1965-1966 Mustang
58.00 1966-1977 Bronco
58.00 1964-1965 Falcon
58.00 1977-1981 Granada/Versailles
58.50 1977-1981 Versailles
60.00 1958-1960 Edsel
61.00 1964-1971 Ford Full Size
61.00 1949-1951 Mercury
61.25 1957-1972 Ford F-100 Pickup
61.25 1960-1964 Ford Full Size
61.25 1971-1973 Mustang
61.25 1967-1973 Torino, Ranchero, Fairlane
63.00 1970-1979 Ranchero & Torino
63.00 1972-1979 Ford Full Size & Intermediate
63.50 1967 Fairlane
65.25 1973-1986 Ford F-150 Pickup
65.25 1978-1986 Bronco
65.25 1973-1986 Ford Van 3/4 Ton
68.00 1972 Ford Van 3/4 Ton
69.25 1977-1986 Ford E-150 Van
 
yes size matters in this case, its rather foolish in my opinion to buy expensive aftermarket parts for a smaller size and strength rear differential if the basic problem is that the rear differential your working on and hoping to increase the durability of,is composed of components that are too small and fragile to take the abuse, if that rear differential was never designed to hold up to loads near what your subjecting it to. Its smarter to start with a basic rear differential design with the required mass and strength that even stock components will be reasonably expected to stand the loads imposed at least for awhile and then up grade to the stronger components, that way you've got a decent chance of having a durable rear when your done!
now obviously larger rear differential tend to be heavier, but you need to reach a compromise where your not constantly busting components or weights of no concern, if you can,t finish a race.
axle material and diam. plus the increased spline counts help and ring and pinon gears,and bearings in the larger rear differentials, being more massive is a huge help, in durability, but remember U-joints and half shafts fail frequently under high shock torque loads so its not just the rear differential that fails , especially in IRS cars.
I almost universally suggest anyone thinking of racing a car with decent tires strongly consider up-grading any 10 bolt G.M. differential to at least a 12 bolt, or better yet a ford 9", dana 60, 9.3" pontiac differential, or at least a 9.25" mopar differential. you only have too puke axles, loose a wheel, and shred ring gears a few times to have that bit of experience,brought home so you don,t forget it!
and keep in mind it doesn,t take a killer bbc to do that, IVE done it with serious 396-402 BBC engines
the ford 9" is cheaper to work with, more common and easy to set up, and a bit stronger than a 12 bolt chevy, but the DANA 60 has always given me excellent results and thats my first choice in all my serious HP cars
theres a big difference in parts size and strength between a 9" ford and DANA 60, shown here, a 12 bolts a bit weaker and a 10 bolt rear is not even in the same ball park
danavs.jpg


GM 7.875" (dana 36)
GM 8,5" (10 BOLT)(dana 44)
GM 8.875" (12 bolt)
FORD 9"
DANA 60 9.75"
GM 10.5" (14 bolt)
http://wallaceracing.com/axledata2.htm

http://tech.oldsgmail.com/axle_useage.php

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/big-block-vs-10-bolt.4525/#post-54170

http://www.oldsmobility.com/old/10bolt-tech.htm

http://chevellestuff.net/qd/rear_axle_info.htm

http://www.differentials.com/technical-help/differential-identification

http://www.differentials.com/gm-axle-ratio-identification-codes

http://www.differentials.com/technical-help/differential-identification

http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/transmission-drivetrain/1312-10-bolt-builder-s-guide/

differ1.jpg

differ2.jpg

differ3.jpg

differ4.png
differ5.png

differ6.png

differ7.png



axlecode.gif


1974AGaxles.jpg


c-clip are the stock or standard O.E.M. axle design, to get the conversion axles sold by several aftermarket suppliers youll want a matched set of
rear bearings and axles
https://www.strangeengineering.net/...kages-components-1/12-bolt-c-clip-eliminator/

https://www.strangeengineering.net/product/gm-pro-race-axles-elim-kit-1-2-stud-kit.html/

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/build-bulletproof-gm-10-bolt-axle-built-c-clip-eliminator/

http://www.moserengineering.com/faqs/

http://chassisengineering.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=4_104

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/c-clip-eliminator-kits/axle-model/gm-8-5-in

https://www.markwilliams.com/c-clip...MI97f1u_Cz3QIVRbXACh2Xfw5yEAMYASAAEgL-SPD_BwE



http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-tech ... -kits.html

http://chassisengineering.com/shopDetai ... uctId=1199

http://www.vansteel.com/index.cfm?fusea ... 06&ID=2384

http://www.strangeengineering.net/newpr ... sheet.html

http://www.mitchelldiff.com/customaxles.html

http://www.reiderracing.com/index.php?c ... _6039_6034

http://www.jegs.com/p/Strange-Engineeri ... 6/10002/-1

http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestor ... arend.aspx

http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/alldana60.aspx

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=1340&hilit=+dana+axle

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=482&p=596&hilit=+dana+axle#p596
 
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btw don,t think stock components, or even aftermarket components will stand abuse forever ,even if you have a ford 9" or 12 bolt Chevy rear or if you run an auto transmission
the truth is that stress is cumulative and if you abuse anything long enough it will eventually have problem,s so think thru your component selection, shock loads that will twist a 10 bolt G.M. rear to scrap will hardly stress a DANA 60s much more massive components

358-1.jpg

359.jpg


367.jpg

368.jpg

369.jpg

http://www.grumpysperformance.com/370.jpg[/img
[img]http://www.grumpysperformance.com/371.jpg
 
Thankfully, 8.8s are plentiful in the boneyard, and often you can pick one up cheaply from a Mustang buddy who is swapping to a 9-inch. Keep in mind, though, that width, gear ratio, differential type, brakes, and bolt pattern will vary per application. Here is an incomplete list of 8.8-inch rears to choose from:

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/paint-body ... gm-g-body/

Model Year Model Axle Width Brakes Bolt Pattern
1986–1993 Mustang V-8 58.75 Drum 4x4.25
1990–1997 Ranger 58.750 Drum 5x4.50
1994–2003 Explorer 59.750 Drum or disc 5x4.50
1990–1995 Aerostar 59.750 Drum 5x4.50
1979-2002 Crown Victoria 62.80 Drum or disc 5x4.50
1987–1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe 61.50disc 4x4.25
1984–1992 Lincoln Mark VII 61.50 disc 5x4.50
1994–1998 Mustang 60.250 disc 5x4.50
1999–2004 Mustang 61.6250 disc 5x4.50

how wide is your current differential?
the ford 9" is a good choice

http://www.kevinstang.com/Ninecase.htm
http://www.mustangsandmore.com/ubb/FordRearDimensions.html

1965-1966 Mustang 57.25 inches
1967-1970 Mustang 59.25 inches
1971-1973 Mustang 61.25 inches
1977-1981 Versailles 58.50 inches
1967-1973 Mustang, Torino, Ranchero, Fairlane 59.25 inches to
61.25 inches
1957-1959 Ranchero and station wagon 57.25 inches
1966-1977 Bronco 58 inches
1977-1981 Granada/Versailles 58 inches
1967-1971 Comet, Cougar, Mustang, Fairlane 59.25 inches
1971-1973 Mustang 61.25 inches
1964 Falcon 58 inches
1967 Cougar 60 inches
1967 Fairlane 63.50 inches coil springs
1972 Ford Van 3/4 ton 68 inches
1973-1986 Ford Van 3/4 ton 65.25 inches
1957-1959 Ranchero and station wagon
57.25 inches
narrowest 9" housing
1966-1977 Bronco 58 inches 5-on-5 1/2 inch diameter bolt circle
1967-1973 Torinos, Rancheros, Fairlanes 59.25 inches or
61.25 inches
1967-1971 Comets, Cougars, Fairlanes 59.25 inches
 
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Thought I would never see a Ford 8.8" rear in a 1978-87 G body Grumpy.
Nice read.
Axle tubes really need to welded in full to cast iron center pumpkin.
They can be pulled out in high HP cars on launch.
Tubes are kinda thin. Sometimes bend.
Takes around 1000 hp and sticky tires.
Backbrace it like a 4x4 truck.
Ford 9" supply junkkyard axles are drying up.

Musclecar Mopar Dana 60 hard to find.
All in private hands now.
 
Bel Air kiwi said:
Hi Old Chevy soldier, Sorry to say as a retired GM product engineer our diffs were nothing like as good as the Ford 9" or the Dana 60 series.
There is so much aftermarket support for the 9" Ford and it is way less likely to throw an axle or break that using an old 10 bolt is a restoration only path for me.
Hell I even have a GM Holden one tone axle that has a 9" center and GM Bendix brakes and axles.
I don't know if you guys in the US realize but those Holden's from Australia that run your 5.7 engine have axles with discs and the same spline count as the 9" Ford. So that Pontiac 2 door should have the same set up as its just a re-badged and nosed Holden.
I can possibly research it a bit more if you like.

Cheers kiwi

while personally I'VE used a dana 60 rear differential in ALL my serious performance car builds ,I have to second KIWI's advise, about swapping too a ford 9" if you can find one cheap, and that's not usually a big issue, simply because I've seen so many guys install engines I've built who eventually found out through experience about the weakness of the G.M. 10 bolt differential, and yeah, personally,
I've shredded a couple 12 bolt chevy rears, and more than a few 10 bolts,
and I've tried hard not too!
but once you install decent tires and set up a suspension so the front tires will lift off the pavement for a few yards, the rear differential does take some shock loads even when you just bring the rpms up to about 1900 rpm,with your foot on the brake, and floor it when the last yellow light blinks off, with a 3200 stall converter,with a th 400

c-clip are the stock or standard O.E.M. axle design, to get the conversion axles sold by several aftermarket suppliers youll want a matched set of
rear bearings and axles
https://www.strangeengineering.net/...kages-components-1/12-bolt-c-clip-eliminator/

https://www.strangeengineering.net/product/gm-pro-race-axles-elim-kit-1-2-stud-kit.html/

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/build-bulletproof-gm-10-bolt-axle-built-c-clip-eliminator/

http://www.moserengineering.com/faqs/

http://chassisengineering.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=4_104

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/c-clip-eliminator-kits/axle-model/gm-8-5-in

https://www.markwilliams.com/c-clip...MI97f1u_Cz3QIVRbXACh2Xfw5yEAMYASAAEgL-SPD_BwE
related threads
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ears-differentials-available.1282/#post-36502

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ike-i-need-a-hole-in-my-head.4887/#post-13451

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/ok-youve-shreaded-your-10-bolt-rear.237/

performance rear differential axle/ differential parts manufacturers & related info

http://www.moserengineering.com/

https://www.strangeengineering.net/

https://www.markwilliams.com/axles....MIjdPBrO2z3QIVi7rACh38PgMhEAMYASAAEgKMsPD_BwE

https://www.currieenterprises.com/

https://www.mittlerbros.com/Automotive-Rear-Ends

https://www.motivegear.com/

https://dutchmanaxles.com/?SID=13e788c48f6972c9ebd5a6a2581b5139

http://www.differentials.com/

http://www.manciniracing.com/drivetrain-parts.html

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-1009-bolt-in-rearend-buyers-guide/
 
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