383 rebuild - old dyno results & new cam ideas

Loves302Chevy - My car is 75% street, I set it up with the intention of not being a daily driver and more of a weekend warrior. It sees no more than 3000 miles a year. I drive it to work a few times a year, cruise around on the weekends, and put it on a trailer it if I want to go to the track. That way if anything were to break I don't have to come up with a plan "B" to get to car home from the track, which is about 50 miles away.

I agree that my cam selection was more "RACE" than "STREET", I didn't look at it that way at the time though. I planned to run a dedicated hydraulic roller but when COMP recommended I run this setup instead I changed my plan. They said given the tight lash specs of the profile I could run hydraulic lifters without issues. I assumed that I would be getting the best of both worlds: more aggressive cam profile (=more power right?) but not having to run solid roller lifters on the street (=more streetable right?). In the end I had more questions than answers regarding the efficiency and durability of my cam choice and felt I left usable power on the table.

Maniacmechanic1 - Once I got over the initial "awe" of spending a day at the dyno (my first time) I was disappointed by the lack of some information on the dyno printout. It's cut off the picture but the VE is listed to the right of the BSFC, the numbers all read 0.0 so I didn't bother to include it in the picture. Also - I recently looked at around 15 other random dyno printouts and noticed that the BSFC numbers seem to be between .3XX and .4XX on average. I see that mine are quite a bit higher between .6XX and .7XX, what do the higher fuel consumption numbers indicate?
Basically the Comp cam is not real efficient.
It wants to be a race cam but falls way short.

There has been issues with Older SBC OEM blocks here lately that have been in use by members for years.....they finally gave up the Ghost.
Need to follow Grumpy's basic recipe so no horrific problems come up.

See what Rick comes up with DD 6.

I am looking for a Super Hit torque 3000-4000.
Not too much down Low makes it hard to hookup Racing on the street and tracks.

Like A 455 Ponch Super Hot cammed ( Race they get tamed down by long 4.21" stroke) Power window and stay in safe zone RPM.
 
Sorry the formatting of the text changed after I posted, shifting the number alignment. If it's too jumbled let me know and I can re-post.
Yea, most forums take out extra spaces. You would have to use something like a period to hold those spaces. But no need to repost, I can read your numbers just fine.

I should have something after lunch, say maybe 2-3 pm.
 
Please look over all the numbers, if there are any changes to be made it's best to do it now before
we move on and make camshaft changes.

Enjoy Drew !!!

DPSim01_Graph.JPG

DPSim01_CamManager01.JPG

DPSim01_CamManager02.JPG

AFR 195 Street Flow.PNG

SCR_Calc01.PNG

The table below might be easier to compare with your actual Dyno results.

DPSim01_Table.JPG
 
anytime the software dyno predicted power curves have sharp changes the data is marginally suspect, but the dyno peak torque and HP are fairly close,
to the real dyno result

DPSim01d.jpg





Dyno results: (are the BSFC numbers high? Others I have seen are around .3XX to .4XX)
index.php

index.php


heres some calculators you might use
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/procrastination/motor.html
http://www.thirdgen.org/calculations
http://www.bgsoflex.com/holley.html
http://www.rickwrench.com/bunchofcalculators.html
http://www.ford-trucks.com/calculators/index.php
http://hotrodworks.net/hotrodmath/hotrodmath.html
http://kb-silvolite.com/calc.php
http://www.wallaceracing.com/dynamic-cr.php
http://www.dsm.org/tools/calchp.htm
http://www.wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp_dp.htm
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calccr.htm
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/index.html#jcalc
http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_da.htm
http://www.diamondracing.net/cocalc.htm
http://www.crower.com/misc/valve_timing_chart.html
http://www.bob2000.com/carb.htm
http://www.ondoperformance.com/page2.html
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/camshaft.html
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/runnertorquecalc.html
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~allan...ngth/pipe.html
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/bville-spreadsheet-index.html
http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx
gear spread sheet that comes in handy THANKS TO 1FATGMC
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/bville-spreadsheet-index.html
HERES OTHER INFO LINKS
http://www.wallaceracing.com/reargear.htm
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcmph.htm
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcrpm.htm
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcrgr.htm
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/transc.htm#tabtop
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/transc.htm#Auto
http://www.pipeflowcalculations.com/airflow/index.htm
http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/header-tech-c.htm
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_pr...torquemyth.htm
http://tom.marshall.tripod.com/exhaust.html
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~allan...a/effarea.html
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~allan...ngth/pipe.html
http://www.pontiacracing.net/js_header_length1.htm
http://www.wallaceracing.com/runnertorquecalc.php
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question172.htm
http://www.auto-ware.com/software/eap/eap.htm
a few resources to allow you to calculate the ideal results
http://www.tmossporting.com/tabid/1805/Default.aspx
heres some differant calculators
http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp2
http://www.wallaceracing.com/dynamic-cr.php
http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/compression_ratio.php
http://not2fast.wryday.com/turbo/com...pressure.shtml
average the results
its unfortunate but theres always going to be some transaction where machine shops or suppliers drop the ball or screw up.
Ive certainly had more than what Id consider my fair share of less than ideal transactions and dealing with machine shops over the decades,
and you can,t even in most cases point out the ones you should always go too...or avoid simply because many will go for hundreds of transactions,
having hundreds of happy customers.. then a couple totally #$%^& up , totally uncharacteristic transaction's,
and following with a "we just don,t really give a S4$%^& attitude and less than quality parts shipped."
then followed inexplicably reverting back to the normal customer relationship.



a few factors to consider


http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/calculate-fuel-injector-size.1200/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/how-big-a-fuel-pump-do-you-need.1939/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...h-on-fuel-air-ratios-that-gets-ignored.15506/

http://www.wallaceracing.com/chokepoint.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/injector-sizing.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/header_length.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/calcafhp.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/eff-cr.php

https://www.exhaustvideos.com/faq/how-to-calculate-muffler-size-pipe-diameter/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...on-picking-a-shop-to-do-work.5053/#post-28837

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/machine-work-costs.3169/#post-8452

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/finding-a-machine-shop.321/#post-55314

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/parts-prep-cleaning.6255/#post-41064

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/precision-measuring-tools.1390/#post-52466

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-dated-signed-and-pictures.4786/#post-12990

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...oo-deal-with-a-machine-shop.14454/#post-750
 
Last edited:
Rick,

That's awesome!! Thank you again for taking the time to enter the information and run the simulation.

The difference between the actual and simulated numbers is surprisingly small, the simulated numbers only being slightly higher. I don't see anything that would need to be changed. I added the advertised duration numbers to the list of cam recommendations I mentioned earlier in case that information is needed. I also attached a copy of the cam card for the Crower 00471S, for the custom grinds I don't have any seat to seat or .050 timing numbers.

Crower: PN - 00471S ADV DUR: 286/292
INT/EXH - Dur @ .050” Lift: 236°/240° RR: 1.5/1.5Gross Lift: .555”/.559” LSA: 110° RPM: 2400 to 6000 Redline: 6500

Custom grind #1: ADV DUR: 295/302
INT/EXH - Dur @ .050” Lift: 239°/246° RR: 1.5/1.5Gross Lift: .562”/.562” LSA: 109°

Custom grind #2: ADV DUR: 296/296
INT/EXH - Dur @ .050” Lift: 237°/237° RR: 1.6/1.6Gross Lift: .585”/.585” LSA: 108°
 

Attachments

  • camtag00471S.pdf
    29.4 KB · Views: 3
Please look over all the numbers, if there are any changes to be made it's best to do it now before
we move on and make camshaft changes.

Enjoy Drew !!!

View attachment 12046

View attachment 12044

View attachment 12045

View attachment 12043

View attachment 12048

The table below might be easier to compare with your actual Dyno results.

View attachment 12047
What to look for from Rick's DD 6 simulation is improved torque and power averages.
See what the Crower Cam does.
 
I've sent an email to Larry Atherton, the lead software developer about the sharp changes in
the graph. I'm waiting to see what he says before I proceed.
 
This happened about this time last year with last engine Simulations done Grumpy.

VE seems alwfull high.
Near 110 % and above 100 percent too long.

I am going to do DD2000 later.
I skip entering air flow files typical.
Use drop down menus.
His AFR heads I would use Full Street Ported or Full Race.
Run simulations after the Wife gets back.
Her flight got cancelled till tomarrow.
 
Rick do we have his Cam card with IVO, IVC, EVO, & EVC @.050 " ?

Found It with Grumps Crower Cam choice.
I will DD2000 the Crower
 
That must be why your sims are so accurate ???
It's been dead accurate believe or not for the Pontiac Guys in past.
I was within 10-20 Hp typical.
Track times tested within .10 tenth.

So many variables once installed in the car.
Unless they have a drag racing background no open headers, No 3-5 inch exhaust system used.
 
Ok you can take over from here, I’m out.
I bow to the MASTER !
Need his .050" events.
May be in .020.

Larry wrote DD2000 with Isky Cams.
Read that.

Not sure with DD6.

Just recall if .020 or .050 not used he said results will be skewed.
Reverts back to baseline cams program designed with.
 
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