anyone ELSE a BIG FAN of 45 cal lever guns

grumpyvette

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Ive owned a 45/70 marlin, for 30 years, (traded it off for well more than it was worth new) and currently own a 450 marlin caliber BLR, Ive been very pleased with both rifles, and think the BLR I upgraded too is a real nice close cover ELK rifle, ballistics easily duplicate the loads I used for many years hunting with the 45/70 (405 grain bullets at 1800fps) accuracy is under 1.5" @ 100 yards off the bench with the first load I tried, and I like the idea of front locking lugs like a bolt action when dealing with that much pressure in a lever gun, and Ive always been a fan of the larger caliber lever guns

http://www.gunwalker.com/450marlin/handloading.html

http://www.loaddata.com/members/sea...aliberid=26&header=.45 Caliber Reloading Data

http://www.chuckhawks.com/450Marlin.htm

http://www.loaddata.com/members/sea...aliberid=26&header=.45 Caliber Reloading Data

http://www.loaddata.com/members/sea...aliberid=26&header=.45 Caliber Reloading Data

http://www.loaddata.com/members/sea...aliberid=26&header=.45 Caliber Reloading Data

http://www.loaddata.com/members/sea...aliberid=26&header=.45 Caliber Reloading Data
 
one reason I really like the 45 caliber rifles is you can use low velocity hard cast loads that cost very little to load for practice loads, load a 350 grain hard cast to about 1000-1100 fps and you can have a very pleasant combo to punch beer cans or paper targets at the local range for pennies a shot 20 grains of 2400 under a 350 grain hard cast will do that and slightly less blue dot will too.

http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/index.html
458-355-gc.jpg


http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0004482045

keep in mind that still far exceeds a 44 mag but its still a light recoil level load compared to the full potential loads

yeah, been there many times, back in the 1970s I saw a buddy impressively drop two deer in very rapid succession at about 200 yards with a marlin 444,
he used 240 grain soft point bullets
I went out and bought one, it worked ok, it worked better after I found 265 grain hornady bullets,
but after awhile in the later 1980s I upgraded to a marlin 45/70 , and got into casting 350 grain, bullets and eventually upgraded to a 450 marlin BLR, when they came out with those in about 2000, using 405 grain bullets,
accuracy and stopping power were marginally better after each upgrade, as group sizes shrunk and bullet weight increases and AS I GAINED MORE EXPERIENCE AND SKILL,
the results I got improved.(group sizes became more consistent and slightly smaller, with each change)

now I'm not about to suggest there was anything wrong with any of those calibers, or rifles and,
I doubt any deer or elk would not have dropped if hit well with any of those rifles.
certainly all those rifles would shoot under 2" bench rest groups and the BLR is consistently under 1" three shot groups off the bench rest,
but I don,t know anyone who can keep a consistent 2" or less 100 yard three shot group shooting from a field position,
so I doubt any deer or elk would notice.
but I certainly felt each upgrade was worth the money

sitetar.jpg

I think we all find we have favorite rifle action types , personally I like and trust single shot browning falling block rifles like the browning 78 ,in 300 wby,
and the bolt action weatherby mark V ,in 340 wby, and the 375 H&H, bolt action, for most of my hunting,
(you might feel thats excessive, I know I'm in a minority)
I could not pick or would want to even suggest what YOU might prefer,
some guys like blondes some guys prefer brunettes... find what you like best, and what you have fun with, and youll never be wrong.
I've purchased, and used a great many rifle calibers from 6 mm rem to 458 LOTT and a 58 and 62 caliber muzzle loader's
many guys seem to be adversely effected by any significant recoil and many prefer lighter weight rifles, thats fine,
I find lots of the guys I hunt with preferred pump and lever actions
personally I prefer the .338-.45 calibers, they tend to get obviously noticeable results
you can't ignore physics a larger and heavier projectile tends to hit harder,
but its a judgement call on how hard you want to hit the target or what trajectory and recoil limitations your willing to deal with
I've seen several elk killed with a 257 roberts and a couple killed with a 45/70, , most guys seem to find a 308 win, 30/06 or 270 win works well.
power is obviously not as critical as shot placement
if you can accurately use a 300 mag-375 mag the extra power has marginal advantages in a few applications but its rarely if ever going make or break a hunts success.
from what Ive seen having confidence in your choice of rifle and being very familiar with its quirks and characteristics and limitations is the key to success not the action type or caliber or case head stamp.
Quote:
Three times now I bought into somebodies hype and bought what was supposed to be an improvement and wasn't.
yeah, been there many times, back in the 1970s I saw a buddy impressively drop two deer in very rapid succession at about 200 yards with a marlin 444,
he used 240 grain soft point bullets
I went out and bought one, it worked ok, it worked better after I found 265 grain hornady bullets,
but after awhile in the later 1980s I upgraded to a marlin 45/70 , and got into casting 350 grain, bullets and eventually upgraded to a 450 marlin BLR, when they came out with those in about 2000, using 405 grain bullets,
accuracy and stopping power were marginally better after each upgrade, as group sizes shrunk and bullet weight increases and AS I GAINED MORE EXPERIENCE AND SKILL,
the results I got improved.(group sizes became more consistent and slightly smaller, with each change)

now I'm not about to suggest there was anything wrong with any of those calibers, or rifles and,
I doubt any deer or elk would not have dropped if hit well with any of those rifles.
certainly all those rifles would shoot under 2" bench rest groups and the BLR is consistently under 1" three shot groups off the bench rest,
but I don,t know anyone who can keep a consistent 2" or less 100 yard three shot group shooting from a field position,
so I doubt any deer or elk would notice.

but I certainly felt each upgrade was worth the money
if your hunting the thick timber, where shots tend to be on walking elk at well under 100 yards, in my opinion
, Its hard to improve on the effectiveness of a 450 marlin BLR loaded with a 405 remington bullet over 50 grains of imr3031 with a 215 fed primer

I received a brief e-mail asking why I seem to be promoting the 450 marlin BLR
Im not promoting any caliber or action type, simply pointing out what I see rather frequently, used.
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Browning_BLR.jpg

while earlier in the thread,and in other threads, Ive stated Ive used a SAKO 375 H&H carbine hunting thick timber hunting elk.

well thats a good observation
Ive used BOTH rifles and the 375 H&H sako manlicher carbine similar too these pictures
sako375man.jpg

my late hunting partner vastly preferred the 358 win BLR
(mostly Id bet because the 358 win was available when he started hunting elk and the 450 marlin only came out after he passed on)
well Ive watched a great many guys hunt, the thicker timber slopes where ranges tend to be well under 100 yards and you certainly don,t want any game you shot running any distance,
heavy bullets in the 30 caliber and larger in the 180 grain or heavier range work rather well.
and you certainly are unlikely too, get your choice in distance or the games stance or choice of shot angle.
many prefer those larger bore Marlin and browning lever actions, as you can get a very rapid second shot.
two factors come to mind here
(1) few guys I know have ever needed a rapid second shot
(2) even fewer have developed the well practiced skill of rapidly working a bolt action while your in recoil,
from the first shot and not removing the rifle stock off your shoulder.
I find most guys are faster making a follow up shot or at least having that second cartridge re-chambered with a lever action,
and while that might seem to be an advantage, once you have developed the knack of using a bolt gun with out removing it from the shoulder,
while working the bolt, I feel the advantage is negligible if it exists... especially when I rarely see a second shot from either rifle is required.
like I stated, pick what YOUR familiar with and COMFORTABLE useing....your un-likely to make a bad choice.
 
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I got a 45-70 rifle from passed down from my Great grandfather. It is a single shot cartridge rifle. I think it is an 1873. My Great grandfather was a rail road engineer in SD at the turn of the century. He bought the gun from a guy who swore it was in the battle of little big horn but I think the story he was told may be untrue. I got some old ammo with it and it still shoots just fine.
Dave
 
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