anyone have experience converting a 4l80E to full manual?

Re: anyone have experience converting a 4l80E to full manual

DISASSEMBLE
4l80eexp.png

PART 1

PART 2

Part 3

PART 4


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Transgo-4L8...-4L85E-Transmission-GM-GMC-HP-/201593222653?h

http://www.ebay.com/itm/atcFOUR-80-4L80E-Transmission-Controller-Trans-Control/131557581243?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20131003132420&meid=b115ad65312144b0a3ec6df6a24ad228&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=3&sd=201585616471
REBUILD
PART 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5x6VlBnT_8 PART 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYLMFs6SEIc PART 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnEYxJ0FHJ4 PART 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9wknedhRFQ PART 5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djQ0e2O54fg PART 6

RELATED INFO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXntVRW8o4I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7A0VN3Cyws

I watched several of these and it made me wonder if I ever want to disassemble a 4l80e transmission
I I had that same feeling of DREAD before I ever tried to rebuild my first engine, or first muncie transmission, and I became familiar with those, so I,m sure Ill eventually over come it but It not a great feeling
 
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Re: anyone have experience converting a 4l80E to full manual

Tearing into an automatic transmission does not scare me Grumpy.
Need the right tools fpr the task.
If we lived closer I would drive over & do it for You.
 
Re: anyone have experience converting a 4l80E to full manual

87vette81big said:
Tearing into an automatic transmission does not scare me Grumpy.
Need the right tools fpr the task.
If we lived closer I would drive over & do it for You.

If you lived next door I think we would both eventually benefit and learn a good deal.....now if I can just convince RICK and a few others to move around here also things might really look up
 
Re: anyone have experience converting a 4l80E to full manual

From a Strategic Anti Bam Bam Muslum War viewpoint Grumpy,
Rick & Bob are in the Best States to be in.
Oklahoma & Texas.
I have some really nice Farmground on my property to grow Food.
SHTF.
I hate that Anti Christ Muslum Grumpy.
Wish he would drop dead.
 
Re: anyone have experience converting a 4l80E to full manual

4L80E Frequently Asked Questions

http://www.jakesperformance.com/4L80E_Components.html

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=10588&p=45330#p45330

http://www.fuelairspark.com/fas/ez-tcut ... to-09html/

Why use a 4L80E and not a 4L60E?

The 4L80E is a descendent of the proven TH400 transmission design. It is very rugged, has much more potential for power capacity than any other overdrive transmission on the market. It has better power flow for big power applications, much more clutch capacity and apply area than the 4L60E. Simply put, from a design and engineering perspective, it’s a superior transmission in more powerful combinations. It’s not for everyone, but it is the unit of choice if you plan to make serious power.



What about HP loss or consumption?

The 4L80E will theoretically consume more HP than a 4L60E or other lighter duty transmission. It has a positive displacement pump as opposed to a variable displacement, it is heavier, has more rotating mass, more clutch drag, and on the surface would seem to “eat” HP. The biggest loss would seem to come from the heavier rotating mass. However what is widely misunderstood is that yes it’s heavier, but that alone doesn’t cause more power loss. Remember an object in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted upon by another force. So unless there is more friction involved, a heavier rotating mass doesn’t take any more HP to maintain the same speed as a much lighter mass. It DOES take more power to accelerate or decelerate the heavier mass. So what this means to the average enthusiast is the faster your car, the more power the transmission will consume. This applies to all transmissions. Power loss through the transmission will increase the faster you accelerate it. Our testing has shown that you will not see any significant power loss in a 11, 12 or 13 second combination. They simply aren’t accelerating fast enough that the rotating mass really comes into play. As you get into the low 10 second ¼ mile times, you may start to see some differences between a lightweight transmission and a heavier one. The thing to remember is, typically the lighter duty transmissions become a maintenance item at these power levels. More frequent rebuilds and failures. So for a small loss of power often equating to less than .05 second in Elapsed Time in the ¼ mile, you gain reliability. Unless you are racing for a record attempt where hundredths of a second are crucial, reliability is usually a more important factor.



What about size/weight of the 4L80E?

The 4L80E weighs 178 lbs in typical configuration. A 4L60E weighs approx. 135-140 lbs, a TH400 weighs 135 lbs, a TH350 weighs 125 lbs. All weights are without converter and dry with stock components. Converter weights will be similar for a given combination with the same size converter. i.e. 12”, 9.5”, 8”.

The 4L80E is very close to the same length as a 4L60E. Oftentimes we have swapped these units out without cutting the driveshaft, just a yoke change. It is more robust in the area behind the bellhousing than most other units. This is also the area where the cooler lines attach. The biggest fitment issue we see is in the cooler line area. Part of the issue is that the cooler lines on a 4L80E are not angled but come straight out of the case. In some cars the early cores (91-96) fit better than the 97-up cores due to the cooler line placement. We know from various installs that the 4L80E fits fairly easily in the 67-69 GM F-Body cars (Camaros Firebirds, and typically X-body Nova’s), 70-81 F-Body. 98-02 F-Body. 68-72 A-Body (Chevelles, Cutlass, GTO, etc), as well as the 78-87 G-Body cars (Malibu, Regal, Cutlass). We have customers who have installed them in 64-67 Chevelles with minor floorpan work.



What are the differences in the cores?

4L80E production started in 1991 and continues today. 1991-1996 cores are essentially the same and interchangeable with some minor updates and differences. The 1991-1993 cores had a poor electrical connector at the pass-through of the case. Many have been updated by now, and if not they would need a new harness anyway. The cores do not have provisions for bolting on a manual lever position switch (MLPS). 1994-1996 cores had an updated EPC (electronic pressure control) solenoid and some have the longer shifter shaft to allow use of the MLPS. All of the 1991-1996 cores have the “old” lubrication circuit design where both cooler lines attach to the case just behind the bellhousing. They also have the larger overdrive roller clutch, typically came with a 16 element instead of a 34 element intermediate sprag, and are of the traditional bellhousing bolt pattern used on SBC and BBC engines.


1997-1999 cores have the “new” lubrication circuit that has one cooler line attaching to the case
just behind the bellhousing, and the return line attaches several inches further to the rear. This was supposed to be an improvement to the lube circuit that “center lubed” the transmission, allowing better lubrication to the rear planetaries. These units still had the traditional bellhousing bolt pattern.

2000-2003 cores are similar to the 1997-1999 cores yet they added a bellhousing bolt position to the 12 o’clock position of the bell for the new LS series engines.

2004-up cores had some slight valve body changes and another EPC change.

We build all year model cores and feel they can all be built and work well. In bigger power applications, we prefer the early larger OD roller clutch setup. The type of lubrication circuit doesn’t seem to be an issue when properly built.



What about using an early model core on an LS engine with the missing bellhousing bolt?

We have many customers using the early cores behind LS engines. You will still have 5 bellhousing bolts instead of 6, and this is the same thing as installing a TH400, TH350, or Powerglide behind these engines. In a perfect world we would use a late model core behind the LS engines and be able to use all the bellhousing bolts. However the core costs are still much higher on the later model cores because GM is still buying these back for their rebuild program.



What about a converter cover?

Many of our performance customers are not using a cover. In a more drag racing oriented combo leaving it off allows better converter cooling. In a work truck, off-road, or mud racing combo we recommend installing a cover for protection. We do not provide these with our units as they typically don’t come in on the cores. They can be sourced through GM or a wrecking yard depending on the year of the core.



What type of fluid should be used?

In most applications, regular Dexron III type fluid is fine. Dexron VI or synthetic is also fine but not necessary. In some very harsh conditions, the use of tractor transmission/hydraulic fluid can help fluid and clutch life. This fluid is clear and harder to see on the dipstick. It is equivalent to Caterpillar TO-4 fluid and is available in different viscosities. We recommend using the low viscosity if you decide to use it unless you are trying to use it to tighten up the converter stall slightly. We do not feel Type F fluid is up to modern specs but it will not harm anything to use it.



How much power can the 4L80E handle?

A totally stock unit or rebuild will typically live well with up to 450 flywheel HP/TQ. Above this point the direct clutches will not live long without some hydraulic improvements.

Using our modifications or some valve body kits, the direct clutch issues are resolved and the 4L80E will generally be reliable up to the 750 HP/TQ range unless it’s a very heavy combination (over 4500 lbs) or using nitrous.

The weak point above this power level becomes the OEM input shaft. An upgraded input shaft becomes mandatory. We like to upgrade the forward hub at the same time.

The next real weakness is the stock 34 element sprag. This part is actually capable on a well built unit of living at over 1000 HP/TQ BUT it requires care and knowledge by the end-user. Knowledge of proper burnout procedures is critical. It will also be a maintenance item at the 1000 HP level. It will need to be inspected/replaced occasionally depending on how the unit is used.

We recommend upgrading to a “Super Drum” style sprag that requires a modified or custom made drum and race. It has 36 elements that are wider, a larger race, and uses more intermediate frictions. If you fits in your budget, this is always an excellent upgrade above the 750 HP/TQ range. Combined with the input shaft and forward hub upgrade, it makes the 4L80E almost bulletproof.



How does a Jake’s Performance 4L80E differ from a competitor’s?

Many of our parts are of our own design. We engineered the 4L80E transbrake that has become so popular and is used by other companies. We don’t just build the units but we constantly R&D new parts. Some of our own and some from competitor’s. We also select the parts we use. Many builders use upgraded, aftermarket parts such as the forward hubs, Super Drum, and aftermarket planetary gearsets. We don’t just use what’s cheapest or most commonly available like many builders. We select the parts based on what is better engineered, more reliable, or fits the application better. We may not be the lowest cost but we back up our product and take care of the customer. We don’t have to run an advertising blitz on the internet to get business, we rely on our reputation. Each unit is built using proven techniques and parts and then dyno tested before it ships. The unit is stamped with a number and the builder, dyno pressures, and other notes are recorded for warranty purposes. We have 4L80E’s living in extreme environments at over 1400 HP. The same care of assembly goes into our base build Stage II units as our more expensive builds.

http://www.jakesperformance.com/4L80E_FAQ.html
 
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Re: anyone have experience converting a 4l80E to full manual

Nice Find Grumpy.
No one here has ever Rebuilt a 4L80E & Documented.
I may try & find a 4L80E core this winter.
At least we know the HP & Torque limits of 80 E stock now. 450 max.

Using My Pontiac TH400 yet for the 71GTO 455.
I know it will handle 500HP/ 500Ft/lbs as is.
Have my 1969 PR Code TH400 yet also to build & use.

Biggest draw back to the 4L80E is how expensive the aftermarket high stall lockup converters are for them.
Much less $$$ for a TH 400 High Stall .
 
Re: anyone have experience converting a 4l80E to full manual

Try as you might but behind real big HP & Sub 10-second cars, its not uncommon to have to buy 2-4 Custom high stalls till you find one that actually works for You.
Could mean $4-5k in High Stalls.
That's bad.
Seen others go through it. ET & MPH CHASING.
Fastest Street car shootout guys.

For us right now Low 10's.
Over 800HP at least.
Pass that Hellcat Animal.
Wont be easy.
 
Re: anyone have experience converting a 4l80E to full manual

I have a bunch of info and a rebuild manual for the 4l80e I found when I did my 700r4. I always wanted to make one a 6 speed but from what I here they are not reliable allot of problems have come from it. But I haven't done any hard research recently on it.
 
Re: anyone have experience converting a 4l80E to full manual

I know of two guys with turbo big blocks making 800hp plus, and one at nearly 1100hp, with rebuilt 4l80e transmissions and one guys had his for 5-6 years now with zero issues, so I have little doubt a properly assembled trans will hold up reasonably well.
its a fact that forged steel weights more than aluminum and a really strong transmission will have large FORGED STEEL GEARS AND SPLINED TRANSFER SHAFTS, the weights there for a reason,the heavier transmission parts are larger and stronger by design, and lack of weight may easily simply indicate significantly less robust parts strength, just as a 3/8" wrench weights a good deal less than a similar design in a 7/8" wrench, the reason, the size difference and expected torque loads that may be applied requires significantly more steel
most of the shops Ive talked to have suggested finding a 1999-2001 or newer transmission as a start point


The basic breakdown for the 4L80E goes like this from my books. 91-93 is the first style, 94 is a one off year and got the improved plug in it as well as the PWM solonoid for the TCC was changed to eliminate the cleaning cycle that earlier models had and the 4X4 models no longer had a tone wheel on the output shaft for the PCM as it used the VSS in the transfer case to do all of the work(some 94's still had a tone wheel in certain 4X4 applications). 95-96 is another style, same basic trans as the 94, but it got a boss on the case to mount the NSBU switch(neutral safety back-up switch). 97-early 99 got some improvements in them internally and had the trans cooler lines enlarged and they became known as a rear oiler as the return line was moved furthur back on the trans case. Mid year 99 the 4L80E received MANY improvements internally which included a new input shaft, wider band, and some oiling changes internally. The 4L80E was used on up into around 05 or so and was badged as the MT1 option whereas the 4L85E MN8 option was used primarily in motorhomes and the 3500HD chassis and other HD applications from about 99 or so. Some models were said to have straight cut planetary gears in some portions, solid input shafts, and the 5 pinion planetarys. I don't know all of this info to be 100%, but it is what I have found from alot of online researching and my ATSG manuals. You can take most any of the 4L80E's from a newer and swap into an older model as there are adapters for the cooler lines to facilitate this. And the PWM solonoid can be swapped from a 91-93 into a newer model and allow the use of most any of the 94+ 4L80E/4L85E into a 91-93 truck.

As for the torque converter, there are said to be 3 stock models. Low, Medium, and high stall models. The low stall converter was for the 6.5 and 454, medium stall models for the 305 and 350 in 2500's from 96+, and the high stall for the 4.3L that was offerred in some of the fleet 2500 trucks. The low stall model though is regarded as the best all around converter for most all of the V-8's except for the 305.

Here are bits from the manual .Some lube upgrades.
FORWARD CLUTCH HOUSING LUBE MODIFICATIONS.

Most performance 4L80E transmissions will be subjected to extreme loads and temperatures. This requires some modifications be made to the forward clutch housing (602) and related components to increase the volume of lube oil to the clutch packs and rotating components. Oil pump modifications performed for either fixed or increased variable line pressure will provide the increased volume and pressure. This is the first step. Now we need to improve its ability to flow into the clutch packs and rotating components. Before performing these modifications a parts change should be noted and made during assembly on all 1997 and up “late” or “center lube” type transmissions. Without this the lube circuit on all 1997 and up units will be severely compromised.
If you have a 97 and up transmission with a SOLID MAINSHAFT, it is mandatory that you replace it with the early 91-96 or TH400 HOLLOW MAINSHAFT. Do not skip over this important step. The hollow shaft will supply a huge increase in oil volume to the lube circuit of all center lube transmissions, regardless of intended usage. This update is covered in the appropriate unit.
A brief look at the lube circuit in regards to the forward clutch assembly will help you understand the modifications you will perform and how they will improve transmission function.
Pressurized lube oil exits from the hollow mainshaft inside diameter. See Figure 01. This lube oil is fed to an area, or “reservoir” located on the inside diameter of the forward clutch housing. The bottom of this area is sealed off by the rear of the turbine shaft. The top is sealed off by the rear thrust surface of the forward clutch hub (613). See Figure 02. Lube oil to the forward clutch pack must transfer between the reservoir and the inside diameter of the forward clutch hub. This is accomplished by the” rear” forward clutch hub thrust washer (612). Inspection of the thrust washer will reveal slots machined into both sides of the washer See Figure 03. These slots permit the transfer of lube oil between the “reservoir” and hub inside diameter. Slots in the washer have been highlighted to improve their visibility. See Figure 04. The volume of lube oil that can transfer thru the washer is compromised by the size of the slots and cannot handle the increased volume supplied to the lube circuit. The housing must be modified for increased transfer area. This is easily performed with a milling machine. See Figure 05. Using a .250” end mill, mill two .050” deep slots opposite each other in the “rear” thrust washer surface. The slots will now transfer an increased volume of lube oil between the two points. See Figure 06.





Locate the lube hole in the forward clutch housing (602). See Figure 07. To improve lubrication to the overdrive planetary assembly drill the hole out to.140”.



FORWARD AND DIRECT CLUTCH HUB UPGRADES AND MODIFICATIONS.

The production 4L80E forward clutch hub is suitable for most automatic shift applications up to 600 ft-lbs. torque. The production TH400 and 4L80E forward clutch hubs are dimensionally the same and are interchangeable in stock applications. However, the 4L80E hub is manufactured from better material so avoid interchanges in heavy duty applications whenever possible. Notice the identification groove in the face of the hub. See Figure 01. The TH400 hub will not have the identification groove. In any application over 600 ft-lb. torque the use of an aftermarket billet hub should be considered. See Figure 02.


Modifications performed to the forward clutch housing (602) have increased the volume of lube oil available at the hub inside diameter to lube the forward clutch pack. Lube oil must now pass from the hub inside diameter to the hub outside diameter and into the clutch pack. This oil passes thru 12 .187” diameter holes drilled in the slots between the hubs teeth. It is recommended to add 12 or more holes to the hub. There are 42 slots in the hub and 12 have been drilled. This leaves you a choice of 30 slots to add the extra holes to. Drill holes in a pattern similar to what is already present. Some lube oil will also enter the clutch pack thru the space between the bottom of the clutch hub and the forward clutch piston. A production 4L80E hub is shown in Figure 03. A modified production 4L80E hub is shown in Figure 04.



To dramatically improve lube oil to the direct clutch pack, drill 2 .140” holes opposite each other at 45 degree angles on the inside diameter of the forward clutch hub. The positioning of these holes has been carefully thought out. Lube oil will exit the hub at the drilled holes, and pressurize the cavity on the inside diameter of the direct clutch hub (615) .Because the housing is rotating, centrifugical force will assist the oil in making it to the direct clutch pack. Lube oil that passes between the slots and mainshaft to the second sealed “reservoir” and feed hole on the inside diameter of the direct clutch housing will still flow. However, the added oil supply won’t have to navigate around the restriction imposed by the direct clutch piston and return spring assembly it encounters with the production system.

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/transm ... nsmission/

http://www.gmtuners.com/gmtransinfo.htm

https://www.coanracing.com/converters.html/turbo-hydramatic-4l80e-1.html

http://www.tciauto.com/tc/6x-six-speed- ... 850hphtml/

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/tr ... /4l80e.htm

http://extremeautomatics.com/gm4l80e.php

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/transm ... m#cxrecs_s

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/transm ... nsmission/

http://www.gearstar.net/transmissions/m ... catunid=11

heres a different guy with a 4l80e with an engine exceeding 800ft lbs
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=636&p=850#p850

heres a different guy with a 4l80e with an engine exceeding 1000 ft lbs and 1200hp
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=1328

Rear-Wheel Drive Transmissions

4L60-E

RWD 4-speed automatic with overdrive
159-176 lbs transmission weight filled
Gear Ratios:
1st -- 3.059
2nd -- 1.625
3rd -- 1.000
4th -- 0.696
Rev -- 2.294
Max Gearbox Torque: 670 ft-lbs STOCK



4L80-E

RWD 4-speed automatic with overdrive
260 lbs transmission weight filled
Gear Ratios:
1st -- 2.482
2nd -- 1.482
3rd -- 1.000
4th -- 0.750
Rev -- 2.077
Max Gearbox Torque: 885 ft-lbs STOCK



5L40-E

RWD 5-speed automatic with overdrive
186 lbs transmission weight filled
Gear Ratios:
1st -- 3.42
2nd -- 2.21
3rd -- 1.60
4th -- 1.00
5th -- 0.75
Rev -- 3.02
Max Gearbox Torque: 494 ft-lbs STOCK
 
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Re: anyone have experience converting a 4l80E to full manual

not talking it stock form in 6 speed form was the only problems I heard about them but like I said internet hear say I know lots of guys run the 4l80e with no probs
 
Re: anyone have experience converting a 4l80E to full manual

There are similar guys with Single Turbo Pontiac 455's running 9's in 1/4 mile.
Factory Pontiac Iron heads used.
On my Pontiac Forums.
2-bolt main blocks. Near stock longblocks.
 
Re: anyone have experience converting a 4l80E to full manual

The one guys Corvette ET's dont add up to 976 Flywheel HP with 130 mph trap speed by the way Grumpy.
Bullshit Alert.
He has much less HP.
I don't believe any chassis dyno figures anymore. Like Phil.

1/4 mile or Numerous Engine water brake dyno pulls prove all.
 
Re: anyone have experience converting a 4l80E to full manual
0900c1528006c024.gif

87vette81big said:
The one guys Corvette ET's dont add up to 976 Flywheel HP with 130 mph trap speed by the way Grumpy.
Bullshit Alert.
He has much less HP.
I don't believe any chassis dyno figures anymore. Like Phil.
there ARE several suppliers of adapter tail housings for the conversion of a much stronger 4l80E transmission to the C4 corvettes C-beam support
4l80etail.jpg

1/4 mile or Numerous Engine water brake dyno pulls prove all.
Shift kits valve body's, clutches etc. kits vary, and transmission shop technician skills are obviously at varied levels if you elect to have the kit installed professionally, and in most cases , if you have a performance shift kit its not true full manual control, if that's the kit you buy,yes it should kick down, but as always ASK QUESTIONS before you buy any parts or shift kits
generally, full manual control kits will stay in the selected gear regardless of rpm or load, just like a manual transmission, you just don,t have a clutch petal to deal with

http://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstructions/800/890/890-221100.pdf


https://www.summitracing.com/search...ansmission-shift-kits/transmission-type/th400

https://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/transgo-performance-shift-kits
http://www.fuelairspark.com/fas/ez-tcut ... to-09html/
the more accurate info, and descriptions of what your doing in clear pictures the better,
if you have the opportunity to work on a transmission rebuild, posting
lots of clear detailed pictures with posted written commentary,
accurately detailing exactly whats being done, and details ,
on how and why each parts being selected,used and installed ,
would be very helpful to other members reading through this thread!
keep in mind easily 90% of the people reading the thread,
have never opened or worked on the automatic transmission internals,
nor any experience or idea what was or is required to do so!
Id keep an open mind , the reason is that lack of the correctly set up suspension and tires, can result in a great deal of wasted power and lower trap speed, when I built my 1968 corvette with the 4 link dana 60 rear and a 13.7:1 crower injected 496 BBC my times were in the 10.26 & 137 mph range in a 3200 lb car with a 220 lb driver, by todays standards that car should easily run 9.7 at 139 mph but keep in mind I had the wrong rear gears and tires (slicks) that sucked by todays standards and I was in my early 20s back in 1970-78 when I was seriously racing, and had no where near the experience to properly set up a four link suspension properly when I was in my mid 20s
so if a guy claims to have more power than his et and mph indicate Im far less reluctant, to give him the benefit of the doubt, than a guy running times faster than he should be as I'm sure your aware power, at the fly wheel, is only one of several factors, traction,gearing, weight and aerodynamics come into play

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/4L60E_to_4L80E_Swap.htm

http://www.wallaceracing.com/et-hp-mph.php

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=558&p=710&hilit=et+from+weight+power#p710

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Talk:General_Motors_transmissions

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=555&p=703&hilit=et+from+weight+power#p703

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=677&p=938&hilit=et+from+weight+power#p938

RELATED INFO
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...lt-center-section-installed.11491/#post-53588
 
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Re: anyone have experience converting a 4l80E to full manual

Maybe Grumpy.
I have watched at least 10,000 cars go down the 1320.
15-Seconds to 5 second runs.
Been racing myself many times on track & street.
I especially like the 11-low 8 second race cars because they are the working guys that hired me in the past to turn wrenches for them.

I still call his 975 hp claim bullshit.
Be in the low 9's 1/4 if true.
 
Re: anyone have experience converting a 4l80E to full manual

I was curious this morning Grumpy so I priced out a TCI 4L80 E
3,000-3500 STALL SPEED TORQUE CONVERTER WITH ANTI BALOON PLATES.
10.0" INCH UNIT.
# 242942 TCI STREET FIGHTER
$1660.00 FROM SUMMIT RACING.

I would call it a 10-second car torque converter only.
Not for a 8-second drag car.

My Turbo 400 Torque converter I want with same specs is much less $$$.
$512.00 from TCI. TCI SUPER STREET FIGHTER.
For my 1963 Pontiac Grand Prix.
I am staying Turbo 400 Grumpy.
Better Value for me.
 
Re: anyone have experience converting a 4l80E to full manual

The Torque converters made for TH400 & 1400-2500 HP Ratings still cost around $1200-1400 bucks.
 
Id like some input here gentlemen,
if you were going to convert a 4l80e transmission to full manual control,
that would be set up to handle about 900hp/900 ft lbs ,
what internal transmission parts upgrades would you suggest, be upgraded, cases, clutches, drums, gears, shafts ETC.
what manual shifter would you select and, what 3200 rpm stall speed torque converter would you be using in your car?
what shift kit?
if you were not inclined to rebuild the transmission yourself who would you have do the work?
if you decided to do the work on the transmission personally what tools would you suggest?
generally I like to have an in depth look at the reasonable upgrading a 4l80e type transmission would require, to work behind a serious big block engine.

I know from past experience that I can build a 900hp/900 ft lbs big block, but I,m not YET an experienced transmission re-builder when were talking the 4l80e trans having mostly rebuilt muncies 4 speed manual transmissions, in the past.
but theres always a first time for everything and you can,t learn new skills being reluctant to get in over your head at times or refusing to research unfamiliar areas or not taking advice from experienced people in areas you may not YET have experience in!


yeah! Ive been rather impressed by the few members willing to mentally jump off the dock into re-building their own transmissions as thats one of the first indication's of a true hot-rodder, the
"screw it,I can,t get what I want to sitting here!, lets learn something new" attitude!

as I stated, theres a reluctance, on many guys parts to learn new skills but if your not willing to learn, you miss out on a great deal, think about it, if you never learned to read or experienced delving into new areas you would never have had sex, gotten married, use tools , travel, tune an engine, re-upholster, a seat, paint a car, weld, or do damn near anything as theres always a first time for everything!

and yeah! sometimes you find out your not really great at some things,

( dealing with the resulting, hang-overs,, a few stitches, burns, divorces, getting scammed are a possibility, when you try new things,)
but without trying youll miss a great deal in life

on the PLUS SIDE,

learning new skills can save you thousands of dollars, months of work, provide personal self confidence, respect from your peers, allow you to provide others with more options, increase you earning potential, etc.

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Talk:General_Motors_transmissions
 
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Can't answer in depth right now Grumpy.
Never done it either .
Lots kept secret.

Driving the '63 GP now.
Running good at 90-100 mph.
Air is good today.

[QUOTE,,,87vette81big]



The Novak Guide to the
GM 4L80E Automatic Transmission


Introduction

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The 4L80E transmission is the advanced progeny of the legendary TurboHydramatic TH400 automatic transmission, and is based heavily on the 400 in both parts and strength, yet featuring an added overdrive gear, a lock-up torque converter and advanced electronic controls.
The 4L80E was introduced in 1991 in the GM C/K Trucks line-up, and remained in production through the 2009+ model year.
This article also covers a variant of the 4L80E - the 4L85E, which is built to handle even heavier-duty use, and all references to the 4L80E apply to it unless otherwise mentioned. Readers may also note that the 4L80 and 4L85 terms are sometimes used without the "E" suffix, as all GM automatics are now electronically controlled and therefore in no need of differentiation.
Specifications

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The 4L80 nomenclature denotes that the transmission is a 4-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. vehicle weights. It's RPO code is "MT1" and has been domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti and Willow Run plants.
The 4L80 features ratios in each gear as follows:
First: 2.48, Second: 1.48, Third: 1.00, Fourth: 0.75, Reverse: 2.07
Maximum engine input torque for the 4L80 is 440 ft. lbs. and the maximum output torque is 885 ft. lbs. The case is die cast aluminum. The 4L80E was designed for vehicles up to 8000 lbs. GVWR and with engines up to 440 ft. lbs. of torque.
The 4L85 was designed for vehicles up to 16,500 lbs. GVWR and with engines up to 460 ft. lbs. of torque and towing capacity was up-rated to 22,000 LBS.
The 4L80 series require a shifter with a 7-position quadrant; P, R, N, OD, D, 2, 1.
The torque converter is a fluid turbine drive and like those on its predecessor transmissions; the TH350C, 700R4, and 4L60, the 4L80 features a lock-up pressure plate for direct mechanically coupled driving from the engine crank. The 4L80 features a 310 mm torque converter. As to length, this transmission is 26-1/4" long.
In 2006, GM superceded Dexron III as the recommended fill with Dexron VI, which is backwards compatible with the earlier versions. The transmission typically accepts a 6.3 quart fill. It features a dry weight of 254 lbs. and can weight up to ~268 lbs. full. Like earlier automatics, the 4L80 features one line pressure tap available for testing and diagnostic purposes. They also feature transmission cooling ports for (highly-recommended) external transmission oil coolers.
Development

It's impossible to cover the 4L80E without discussing the great TH400 transmission, from which it was directly developed. The TH400 was so enduring at GM and other marques, that it was actually the last hold-out of the old-school automatics without a lock-up torque converter or overdrive. Because of the expanding success of the 700R4 / 4L60E transmission, GM saw the writing was on the wall and a gap was recognized. The 700R4 was a pretty tough transmission, but not quite in the class of the TH400. GM needed a heavy-duty automatic overdrive.
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GM used as many TH400 parts and designs as possible in the 4L80E, but the added overdrive gear would require an extra gearset and slightly longer (~1-1/2") case. The rear tailhousing bolt pattern remained the same, but its indexing bore diameter was changed. Like the TH400, the 4L80E generally featured a large 32 spline output shaft in both the various 2wd and 4wd applications.
Like the other GM automatics, the 4L80E featured a die-cast aluminum case. Unlike the later 4L60E transmission, the 4L80E did not feature a removable bellhousing, but an integrated bellhousing with only the Chevrolet 90 degree engine bolt pattern being available.
In 1991 the 4L80E was rolled out in GM trucks, including the Sierra, Silverado, Suburban, etc. as well as the Hummer H1.
Though not entirely without glitches, the 4L80E was essentially successful and the transmission continued to be improved throughout its production span, with incremental changes entering as available.
The 4L85 transmission was introduced in 2002. Some of the differences included a 5-pinion output gearset and 5-pinion reaction gearset.
Though not a transmission development change, in 2006 GM specified a new transmission fluid formulation and required its use (for warranty) in the 4L80 series. Dexron VI superceded previous transmission fluids with claims of improved transmission performance and greater transmission and fluid life.
Applications

Like the TH400, the 4L80E is intended to operate between the duty range of the 4L60E and the Allison series transmissions, and prior to the current high-powered light-duty (2500-3500 series) truck diesel revolution, Allison transmissions were essentially only used in the medium-duty class (4000 series) trucks. This made the 4L80E the go-to transmission of the era with the Big Block gas and diesel engines of the 1990's. In fact, prior to the advent of the GM Gen. III Vortec engines, the 4L80E was available only with the Big Block 7400 gas and 6.2L / 6.5L diesels.
The 4L80E & 4L85E were also mated to GM's new Duramax diesels, but with the advent of these engines came the resurgence of Allison automatic transmissions at General Motors, with many buyers opting for them due to their available duty ratings above the already generous 22,000 lb. rated load capacity of these HydraMatics.
As with its TH400 predecessor, the 4L80 transmission found its way not only into significant GM applications, but also into luxury marques, including Jaguar, Rolls Royce, Bentley, and Aston Martin, as well as less glorious vehicles such as school buses and motor homes.
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In 2006, with the introduction of the landmark and innovative upstart, the 6L80 6-speed transmission, the 4L80 began to be replaced in several applications, which was, doubtless, GM engineers' ultimate intention. Yet, the 4L80 continued use in GM's truck line-up like in 2007 when it was introduced into the Suburban and Yukon XL vehicles with the 6.0L engine.
The 4L80's staying power found it installed in several vehicles through 2009, such as the G-series vans, the AM General Hummvee, the W-Series, Isuzu and Workhorse chassis trucks.
Technology

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All 4L80E transmission use electronic controls; typically from the Powertrain Control Module. Some vehicles have shift maps that are selectable by the driver based on usage, such as towing. A portion of the PCM's strategy is shift stabilization, which reduces hunting.
The torque converter, in factory applications, is controlled by a PWM lockup solenoid for smooth lockup action. However, many performance enthusiasts prefer to reprogram the 4L80E to run as a simple on-off solenoid.
In 2004, the H1 received a 4L80E with its own dedicated T42 transmission computer. The transmission also received an improved Park/Neutral safety switch and improved transmission line pressure solenoid. Other GM applications were to follow.
The Transmission Control Module (TCM) is an adaptive learning, computer integrated into the valve body of the transmission and communicates with the Engine Control Module via the onboard vehicle CAN bus network. This is both a return to and a departure from previous automotive control systems in the industry in that earlier electronic transmissions used a separate control module, later to be integrated into the Engine Control Modules which were thus termed Powertrain Control Modules. Now, the high-speed CAN network allows a high rate of data sharing between the units to achieve a collaboration between both engine and transmission functions.
Because the 4L80 transmissions are sometimes used in conversion applications with earlier, non-PCM controlled engines, GM and aftermarket control modules are required and used to control the operation of the transmission in these scenarios.
Speed Sensing

The 4L80E transmission may feature two speed sensors, one for turbine input speed and one for output speed. It uses the Input Speed Sensor to monitor input speeds to compare against engine speed and output Shaft Sensor speed, using this data to adjust shift speeds under instantly detectable conditions. The PCM can command the engine to momentarily drop power during a shift if there's a possibility of clutch damage - a too-common problem in transmissions of other makes. Shift stabilization is achieved through these and similar strategies. Grade braking and clutch line pressure (for greater holding power) are additionally great features that are activated by Tow / Haul mode on the truck platforms.
Because the transmission requires a speed signal for shift control, conversion installers should be aware of their different configurations. 1991 - 1996 4L80E's should feature a speed sensor at the driver's side rear portion of the case, whether they are 2wd or 4wd applications. 1997 and later 4wd applications may omit the rear sensor as this data is available from the transfer case output shaft in factory applications. For the purposes of some adaptations, this omitted sensor and its internal reluctor ring may need to be installed by a transmission building professional for proper operation.
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Engine Compatibility

While the 4L80 is generally mechanically compatible with Chevrolet style GM engines, it does require a transmission controller. That controller may be the factory-integrated with the PCM as on 1991-1999 TBI & Gen II engines, with the 1999-2007 Gen III engines, or the 2007+ Gen IV engines. Or, the controller can be an external GM or aftermarket unit designed for earlier engines.
It should be noted here that Gen IV style 4L80's do not mix and match well, as they have an integrated Transmission Control Module and require a CAN bus network signal to an appropriately matched engine combination.
Jeep Conversions

The 4L80 is doubtless a very successful OEM transmission, and a terrific conversion transmission in the right Jeeps and situations. However, with its 26-1/4" length, it is a longer transmission and is not compatible with short-wheelbase Jeeps such as the CJ5 in any scenario, or CJ7's if they have a lot of suspension lift.
Transfer Case Adaptability


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The 4L80, adapted and ready for a Jeep Dana 300 and the Jeep New Process transfer cases.

This transmission makes an excellent conversion transmission due to its adaptability into most Jeeps longer than CJ5s. Both 2wd and 4wd versions of the 4L80 can be used equally well, and there are no inherent advantages to either one once you have installed our adapter assembly.
2wd transmissions feature conical shaped tailhousings and an output yoke, which are replaced with a typically shorter 4wd style output shaft of varying lengths and spline counts, depending on the application. The HydraMatic can be adapted to the popular Jeep transfer cases, including the:

  • Dana 300, 1980-1986
  • New Process Jeep 208, 219 & 229
  • New Process 231, 241OR, 242 & 249
Essentially all factory GM 4wd applications available with an OEM configured 4L80 have adapters and transfer cases that are prohibitively long for a Jeep, and transfer cases whose sizes and gearing fall short of desirable for most Jeep applications.
Summary

The 4L80 has left us aficionados very impressed. It's an intelligently-designed and implemented transmission from GM and has a terrific record in GM and conversion situations.

Home/4L80E Automatic Overdrive




The GM 4L80E 4-speed overdrive transmission is the ultimate overdrive platform to suit virtually combination that requires the strongest overdrive transmission possible. Hughes Performance has a 4L80E transmission available for practically any engine combination and power level. Our Street/Strip series 4L80E is a great choice for combinations producing up to 850 flywheel horsepower. We offer an upgraded Heavy Duty Street/Strip series 4L80E that is capable of withstanding 1,000+ flywheel horsepower. Finally, we also offer our max upgraded Extreme Duty Street/Strip series 4L80E that is rated for use with 1,500+ flywheel horsepower.
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The 4L80E offers several significant advantages for a wide variety of applications. The 0.75:1 overdrive ratio provides a significant reduction in cruising RPM which will help contribute to a dramatic increase in efficiency. The 4L80E utilizes a lock-up torque converter which allows you to have the best of both worlds… high stall speed and maximum torque multiplication to maximize the performance potential of your combination, and lock-up function via an internal clutch which virtually eliminates all heat build-up in the converter at cruising speeds while providing even more efficiency in addition to the efficiency increases already provided by overdrive. Robust internal components provide strength and durability that cannot be duplicated in lesser overdrive transmissions such as the 700R-4, 200-4R, AOD, 4R70W, 4R100, 518/618, etc.
Selecting a Hughes Performance 4L80E transmission for your vehicle opens the doors to all kinds of possibilities. While we offer 4L80E transmissions for all popular GM V8 engines, we have also developed a custom bellhousing system for the 4L80E that allow you to install this transmission behind a wide variety of non-GM engines without the necessity for any bulky and poorly fitting adapters. With our custom bellhousing system we offer 4L80E packages for the following engines: modular Ford (4.6L, 5.0L Coyote, and 5.4L), small block Ford (including 289, 302, 5.0L, 351W, 5.8L, and 351C), big block Ford 385 series (429 and 460) and Ford Modified (351M and 400M). Each bellhousing system is fully SFI-certified and requires no external bellhousing shields when used in a drag racing application. Each bellhousing system allows the use of an original style starter in the original position.
We offer a variety of electronic transmission control units that take all the guess work, complexity, and intimidation out of retro-fitting a 4L80E into your vehicle. Our electronic transmission control units are pre-programmed and require no software, laptop, or PC for installation, tuning, or proper function. Each controller includes a pre-terminated wiring harness for simple “plug-n-play” operation. We offer models with an optional throttle position sensor (TPS) kit and mounting bracket that will work with virtually any carburetor, and also have models available that simply splice into an existing TPS on an EFI-equipped engine. Our entry level controller is manufactured by Powertrain Control Solutions and features rotary knobs with detents that allows you to quickly and easily adjust the controller for shift firmness, shift timing, and lock-up function to suit your specific driving style. Our premium controller is manufactured by Compushift and includes a simple hand-held calibration module that allows you to fine tune shift firmness, shift timing, lock-up function, and select between automatic and full manual operating modes. The Compushift module also provides a real-time display of transmission function data including range, fluid temperature, line pressure, etc. Paddle shifters are readily available and can easily be installed with either controller option. Coming soon is our very own Hughes Performance electronic control unit. This unit will combine the best of both controllers by offering outstanding simplicity of installation and operation along with a hand-held calibration module that offers increased tunability all at a very attractive price.

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For those customers that would like to avoid using an electronic controller we offer a full manual valve body option on all of our 4L80E transmissions. This option eliminates the necessity for an electronic controller, and requires the user to manually upshift and downshift the transmission in all modes of operation. The full manual valve body option features a forward shift pattern, and still retains the use of the lock-up torque converter which can be activated by a separate toggle switch or push button (not included). The torque converter can be locked up in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th forward ranges if necessary. We also offer a transbrake valve body option on all of our 4L80E transmissions. Our transbrake option can be built as a full manual unit or as an automatic unit with full automatic shifting capabilities when coupled with one of our electronic controllers. Both transbrake options feature a forward shift pattern, and still retain the lock-up torque converter function as well.
Want to retain your mechanical speedometer? We have that covered as well. While the 4L80E was never offered by GM with a provision for a mechanical speedometer drive, we do offer a custom extension housing that allows the use of TH400 speedo gears and a TH400 speedo driven gear housing. Custom machining is required on the output shaft for proper installation of this kit. All components are provided installed on your transmission when you order the mechanical speedo option on your Hughes Performance 4L80E.
With all these options available the only question you need to ask yourself is why wouldn’t you install a Hughes Performance 4L80E? We offer everything from a basic transmission and converter package all the way to a complete turn-key package including controller, dipstick and filler tube, cooler, cooler hose kit, fluid, mount, etc. We are also an authorized distributor for Precision Performance Products shifters. While other shifters can be made to work with a 4L80E transmission, Precision Performance Products is the only company to offer a true correct shifter cable mounting bracket and shift arm specifically for the 4L80E which will help make your installation as simple as possible. Call us today for a quote on a custom 4L80E package tailored specifically to your combination!


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Can't talk about the trans itself, but if I had mine to do over I would
start with a special set of snap ring pliers.

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