basic fighting knife design

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
for most people , knifes by their basic design are fairly short range defensive, secondary weapons,
weapons designed or used in response to surprise attack, bladed weapons by nature, are basically defensive because of the shorter ranges they are effective at, or forced to be used at, and the fact your basically forced to deal with, a max of one or two opponents at a time,in todays world of legal restraints, I'm sure you'll face a huge legal problem if you were to engage in a knife fight, unless its obvious you had no other options, and were forced to defend yourself, even then many will question the fact you had carried a blade.
(I'm sure some prosecuting attorney would be screaming from the rooftops, simply because you carried a blade, with the in his words obvious intent to use it to cut some of societes scum, if attacked.)
(the very idea you might defend yourself seems to piss off some members of society)

while a blade in trained hands is very lethal, it requires some skill and practice to become proficient with a blade, compared to lets say a revolver. now that certainly does not indicate a blades less lethal, but its basically defensive,as your attacker your defending yourself from has the option of running away, distance rapidly makes and edge weapon nearly useless,
it's just not ideal if your trying to defend yourself from a larger hostile aggressive group

on the plus side its easily hidden, quiet,and can be very effective if your attacker is unaware you have access to it.
it won't run out of "AMMO" or jam, and in trained hands it can be very quickly lethal.

below are listed a few options, notice there's no folding knives ,
as most ,but not all, folding blade designs will break if subjected too real and repeated ,combat stress, levels from what I've seen.
like with almost all martial skills you'll need a great deal of practice ,
and you'll need to be in damn good physical condition,

to maximize those skills.
too refine the skill level you'll want to acquire , for effective use of those skills, with edged weapons ,it will require constant practice, but it's a practiced SKILL, so strength alone is not the prime factor, a well practiced alert, and experienced 70 year old in even semi decent physical shape, with a blade design, he's well practiced in using, will have the advantage over some muscular ,unskilled aggressor, all the time.

https://www.thehomesecuritysupersto...s-fiberglass-tonfa-baton-24-inch-10151-p=4120

the effective use of all fighting blades require a good deal of practice skills and knowledge of anatomy,
and the understanding that to be used effectively you need to be fast, close and accurate,as with all tools its the skill and experience ,
of the user that determines a great deal of the tools effective usefulness.

but in skilled hands they can be very lethal, quiet, and effective with no realistic chance of mechanical malfunction, bad magazines, jammed safety's or mis-feeds,
or running out of ammo, like most firearms'
yet , a skilled user, knowing the limitations of the tools, can do remarkable and lethal damage too any opponent in seconds,
a skilled user within arm's length can employ a blade faster,
and do lethal damage quicker, than most firearm users would ever believe possible.
the blade design below was intended to allow soldiers to punch through heavy clothing and reach vital organs to quickly & quietly disable sentries

https://www.amazon.com/MASALONG-Out...bee-8b31-305054f5d64d&pd_rd_i=B07TZ43B3H&th=1

https://www.knifecenter.com/item/IXSF71490/sheffield-fairbairn-sykes-british-commando-dagger-black
knifest1.jpg

the Sykes /fairbairn is an excellent concealment blade & designed to allow easy deep,penetrating punch or stabs to the vitals, and if properly employed lethal, stabs, are fast and effective, but poor slashing and near useless chopping ,NOT MY FIRST CHOICE
but concealment rather easy.
user must know anatomy and have some practiced skills to use effectively, especially in defense.


applegate-fairbairn
easily concealed, good slash and easy deep, and efficient penetration
but requires a good deal of skill to be used effectively, and has neither the length or weight for effective chopping blows
this was developed as an extremely effective and easily concealed, back-up weapon

knifest7.jpg

https://www.knifecenter.com/item/BO...mbat-dagger-blade-delrin-handles-kydex-sheath

a karambit ,is a blade design that is extremely effective in well trained hands
but it requires a good bit of training and its almost exclusively useful in defensive use in most cases.
now by that I mean its use requires some basic martial arts skills as its a blade that requires fast and close in manipulation of an opponent,
in both attack and defensive use. attacking a skilled opponent with a karambit would result in similar results to sticking your arms in a wood chipper.


karambiy.jpg

http://www.budk.com/Timber-Wolf-Buffalo-Horn-Damascus-Steel-Karambit-Knife-31988

these are popular and frequently used as boot or necklace knives
http://www.bladehq.com/item--12BS-Cold-Steel-Safe--2440
knifest6.jpg

EXCELLENT concealment, this makes a good secondary or back-up blade

stabbing and slashing decent, but range limited, chopping and slashing very limited

knifest5.jpg

http://www.bladehq.com/item--Cold-Steel-Magnum-Tanto--6872
http://www.coldsteel.com/products/fixed-knives/3v-magnum-tanto-ii.html
excellent stabbing, and slashing, with reasonably easy concealment , but chopping limited (A GOOD CARRY ,COMPROMISE) certainly very effective in trained hands in both offense and defense , in skilled well trained hands its formidable


https://www.knifecenter.com/item/CS...-1-steel-blade-kraton-handle-secure-ex-sheath
knifest2a.jpg


https://battlingblades.com/collecti...-machete-knife-sword-14?variant=7472354361378

great slashing and excellent chopping, and easy breaking bones, devastating, with a single strike in trained hands,
this basic kukri design,was the primary weapon of the gurkas
excellent defensive characteristics
but a bit limited yet still effective, stabbing ,
concealment very difficult, but it was never designed to be concealed it was designed to be worn as a personal and military weapon
excellent in both attack and defense in trained hands
capable of shearing off arms legs and heads , or punching through chest,with single strike

https://www.swordsofmight.com/product/cold-steel-natchez-bowie/
heres a slightly lighter weight and slightly easier to conceal kukri
an excellent choice if you have the skill to use it and dress to conceal it.
http://www.thekhukurihouse.com/catalog/product.php?id=343239f87


smallk.png

just as with any other potential weapon its going to require knowledge and practice with safe practice tools and a knowledgeable mentor and practice partner, to gain skills, most martial arts stores sell plastic clone practice knives
the skill speed dexterity and knowledge of anatomy that's required to effectively use a knife to disable or mortally wound an assailant
requires study and practice to be effective, it also helps if you know how to block or limit potential damage, if your attacked

knifest3.jpg
and yes there's sure to be huge legal and expensive issues and long jail terms ,

if your the attacker, or not totally justified in a blades defensive use!
a great compromise in that stabbing, chopping and slashing are all done very efficiently in trained hands ,
an all
American design made famous by Jim bowie,
punching through chest to vitals is easy with a single strike,
but remember as it is with all TOOLS OR WEAPONS its the skill and experience of the person operating that tool or weapon,

that has a huge effect on the potential quality of those results and how fast you get the results


the best high quality bowie I own, and recommend the natchez bowie from cold steel looks great but its not a full tang handle design and its rather easily broken if heavily stressed, its a damn shame cold steel went the "CHEAP AND EASY ROUTE" ruining the knife with such potential
eyJidWNrZXQiOiAiZmlsZXMua25pZmVjZW50ZXIuY29tIiwia2V5IjogImtuaWZlY2VudGVyL2NvbGRzdGVlbC9pbWFnZXMvQ1MxNkpTTV8xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjogeyJyZXNpemUiOiB7IndpZHRoIjogNzYwLCJoZWlnaHQiOiA0MjUsImZpdCI6ICJjb250YWluIiwiYmFja2dyb3VuZCI6IHsiciI6IDI1NSwiZyI6IDI1NSwiYiI6IDI1NSwiYWxwaGEiOiAxfX19fQ==


if your trained to use this, , excellent defensive and offensive characteristics, allow a train user to be very well armed.
if you select the correct blade size and size,
concealment very difficult
excellent in both attack and defense in trained hands

 
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The British one I like the best handle has a kubaton design, I think I spelt that right the blunt end will work well to disable your enemy with out having to sink into him. Shaped to crack ribs temple or neck strikes. It is not always best to kill your your attacker plus it makes it allot easier to sleep at night also.
 


EACH OF THE LINKED VIDEOS HAS A FEW VALID POINTS THAT SHOULD BE HELPFUL




 

Do you, remember seeing these, tools on the forged in fire show
a quick check on roughly duplicating what they show used.
not including a lot of the tongs hammers,quench tank , acid etch tank, etc.
and you know from working on cars there's always minor tools you can't work without ,
that may fill a whole tool chest like drill bits hammers,
forge dies fuller dies ,temperature gauges
replacement sander belts and a decent 180-250 amp TIG or MIG WELDER,
if your serious about stocking the shop, and making
Damascus
"canisters and repairs"
then there's a shelf full of materials for handles, epoxy ,special handle rivets, etc.
you could easily have a good deal of cash invested in a knife making shop,
I doubt many guys have that much cash invested in auto tooling
(yeah I have a great deal more in auto tools but I'm a tool junky)

heres near $20K


FORGE ($450-$550)
https://www.majesticforge.com/3-Burner-Knifemaker-Deluxe.html

decent heavy duty power hammer ($7000)
http://bigbluhammer.com/blu-max-110

serious power hydraulic PRESS ($8000)
https://bigbluhammer.tech/50press/
\
belt sander ($1000)
https://atlasgrinders.com/


drill press ($800)
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-15-Heavy-Duty-Floor-Drill-Press/G0784


anvil ($2200)
https://www.gamut.com/c/hand-tools/...MI69vJtsyu3wIVy7fACh0y_Q97EAQYASABEgLsmvD_BwE

yeah theres much more expensive hobbies ... one involves, repeatedly supplying jewelry and lingerie to a wife or gal pal.
 
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I have a Randall #1 that was given to me as a retirement gift. I very much enjoy the looks and function when carving roasted pigs! I also have a Ray Laconico bowie that is a work of fine art. If needed I believe I would grab the Randall for a fight (after I ran out of .45 ACP, of course).
 


and yes obviously a true combat blade a combatant uses, will be a bit more massive,
and a bit longer than a blade designed for use by civilians with concealability as a concern.

-minimal features to insist on, in a fighting blade
full tang handle :like: , stick tangs:facepalm: are far more prone to failure
here's a video, of a k-bar stick tang bending under significant loads,(ABOVE)

while its impressive in what stress loads it stood up to before failure,
a full tang design would, if correctly build hold up under even greater stress loads,
-minimal features to insist on, in a fighting blade
minimum of 3/16" blade spine thickness

1/4"-5/16" blade spine thickness would be preferred
a blade that bends or has a handle snap off is worthless.
minimum in my opinion of 5.5" blade edge length
blade must have a minimal cross guard

a decent quality well designed kydex sheath is a big plus.
 
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almost all the listed knives in the video above are lower to medium priced and medium quality blades
.
.


most of the listed knives in the video below are generally much more expensive and generally better quality

all 5 are much higher quality than many of the bowies in the previous links

obviously check local laws before you carry any blade in public or concealed
some states are insanely, paranoid and against civilians having access to, or carrying anything in the way of bladed weapons

the cold steel san mi bowie is very expensive but also top quality, it will last several life times if well cared for.
I've carried one of the original trail masters
on hunting trips for 5 decades but Ill admit I purchased mine 50 years ago when the price was under $200 and while I purchased the newer version when it was still under $300 years ago I don't think the increase price on the san mi versions really that justified over the standard version, while there's zero question the san mi version is a better blade it's not a huge difference in my opinion





both the kukri linked below are in my opinion good values, if you need a camping knife that will easily double for a hatchet

 
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a bladed weapon is simply one of humanity's oldest tools,
knowing how its used and how one protects oneself is a skill worth knowing.

as with most tools it takes repeated practice and experience (that requires time and effort)
to master the skills, that are required to become exceptionally effective with the tools usage.
while modern society frowns on physical violence, having mastered these older skills,

can go a long way toward making your chances of survival in drastic & violent circumstances much improved


 
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to be effective,and durable under serious stress levels,
the better fighting knives have similar characteristics,
blade steel tends to be 5/16" (8MM) or thicker,
blades tend to be 5"-11" long, or longer depending on its intended use.
full tang, handles, and non folder designs.
and IDEALLY you grip the handle and know instantly from its shape,
where the blade edge is by feel alone

whatever you select it takes extensive practice to master its use.
every design has its strong and weak points!

bigger is NOT necessarily BETTER,
it's the skill & experience of the person wielding the blade,
that generally allows that person to win in a potentially lethal confrontation.
https://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/kukri-related.16752/#post-109630
 
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