building a custom wet sump oil pan

Fabricating a Custom Power Box is Not doable right now for the 425 A. Olds V8 engine Grumpy not practicle.
Not full Race.
Just street pounding fun & stick my foot on the gas for 30 seconds WOT To 1-2 minutes.
GP is highway geared. 3.23 posi for now.
Big cubes move it effortless.

Custom exotic pan made for the 410 sbc & 70 TA a possibilty later.
Never liked the Milodon Drag Race pan on TA 100%.
7-quart volume not enough
Actually ran 9 quarts total in past.
Once running I figured 2 quarts in the top end valvetrain& returning back at 4,000 RPMS +.
On the bench test filled with water 8 quarts just
Below the stock sump baffle. Baffle patterened after SD455 I noted.
Have a NOS SD455 Oil pan put away.
No leaks ever. No oil issues.
Full length 1965-1969 Pontiac windage tray used.
Extra large & 9 count return holes added.
Worked but I know there is better.
Added a Oil Temp guage by Autometer. Pro Comp Series Capillary Tube unit.
 
Your insight & Experience welcome on this Custom Olds 425 Ammo box oil pan.
All new to me Grumpy.
Going to do it.
Oiling system makes or breaks an Engine. Just as the Fuel system does.
 
any clear pictures of the current oil pan on that engine, as it sits in place, from several perspectives from under the car, as it sits currently will help

as you can see most Pontiac oil pans are rather basic
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Last I counted I had 10 Pontiac Oil pans Grumpy.
1964-79.
4 Oldsmibile Pans. 2 403's. 1 455. 1 425 Olds.

Have to wait till this weekend.
Be with my Pochhos again.
Nice too. No Vette IRS to fail.

I thunk I know a guy with a 1963 SD421 11 Quart pan to examines ne.
Long ride to him .
Near Indiana border.
Pontiac Nut too
 
I am going to order a set of Ammo cans Grumpy.
30 Cal, 50 Cal, & Super 50 Saw Box.
The Saw Box is 12" X 6-3/4" X8-1/2".
About 11.87 Quarts Volume if Welded in full.
Had a Look at G Body Cutlass 455 Olds 455 pans 8 quarts volume.
Saw Box will work I do believe.
Affordable purchase.
Graft it in. I like Fabricating one off parts.
 
once your pan capacity reaches about 8 quarts theres little to be gained adding more capacity, it becomes more about directional control of oil flow and preventing windage losses, you need oil to easily flow towards the oil pump but have great difficulty sloshing away under hard braking or acceleration or hard cornering thats where baffles , windage screens,and directional flood gates come into this, a couple 30 cal can or a couple 50 cal cut to fit and welded into the existing oil pan after very careful measuring, to clear the suspension,starter,oil filter,exhaust, car frame etc. will hold far more oil capacity than you require
Sump formula
L x W x D x .0172 = capacity in Qts
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your very unlikely to "SUCK THE PAN DRY" simply because the oil flows in a constant closed loop, circulation.
the issue generally is momentary lower oil pressure at higher rpms when you hit the brakes hard or rapidly accelerate ,
and the oil in the sump due to inertial loads uncovers the oil pump pick-up,
now you may or may not notice on the oil pressure gauge,as it may only happen intermittently,
but with a 4-5 quart capacity non-baffled oil pan its CERTAINLY happens!
if you drive the car under high acceleration and hard braking.
obviously some oil pan designs are vastly better than others but Ive yet to pull down a 4-5 quart capacity oil pan equipped engine ,
that gets hard use on a constant basis,that did not show some signs of oil starvation on the bearings to some degree.
this is generally not causing engine failure but constant wear on bearing surfaces that eventually opens clearances and slowly lower the oil pressure


http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/causes-of-bearing-failure.2727/

http://www.bracketracer.com/engine/mains/mains.htm

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ctrp-1201-bearings-clearance-basics/

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/bearingwear/bearingwearanalysis.htm

http://www.4secondsflat.com/Thrust_bearing_failures.html

http://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-articles/types-of-engine-bearing-damage/

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccrp-9901-diy-oil-pan-baffle/

http://www.summitracing.com/search/Part-Type/Oil-Pan-Baffles/

https://www.holley.com/products/accessories/oil_pans/parts/302-10

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/rotating-assembly-bearings.9527/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-clearance-question.6926/
 
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Do my best Grumpy.
That 427 Tall Deck BBC holds 11-12 quarts of oil volume.

BBC & OLDS 455 Marine pans hold 11-12 quarts too.
Still shooting for 11. Pontiac Did it in my body B body style Grand Prix & Catalina with SD421.
 
I am going to order & Purchase my 50 MM Ammo Can & Super Fat 50 SAW Box Ammo can This Friday Grumpy.
Puchased last of small items for 425 Olds.
Milodon Street Stip Olds Pickup coming.
Milodon 4130 Chrome Moly Olds Oil pump driveshaft came in today.
Have another 1965-69 Pontiac Full Length windage trar coming. $25 fleabay again.
Prices are getting nuts. Most want $200 for That used Poncho windage tray.
No one looking again. Bought it cheap.
 
I am going to order & Purchase my 50 MM Ammo Can & Super Fat 50 SAW Box Ammo can This Friday Grumpy.
Puchased last of small items for 425 Olds.
Milodon Street Stip Olds Oil Pump Pickup coming.
Milodon 4130 Chrome Moly Olds Oil pump driveshaft came in today.
Have another 1965-69 Pontiac Full Length windage trar coming. $25 fleabay again.
Prices are getting nuts. Most want $200 for That used Poncho windage tray.
No one looking again. Bought it cheap.
 
do a great deal of careful measuring, and think,things thru, well before you start cutting and fitting actual material. 99% of the potential problems can be avoided if you do a few hours of careful measuring and thinking before you start cutting and welding and poster board and duct tape are far easier to use as test patterns and useful for trial and error fitting than metal. remember the internal pan depth can be no shallower than the oil pump extends below the block plus a about 1/4"
you can use sharp scissors and duct tape to test fabricate and "WELD" and then modify your ideas with far less wasted effort and expense, before the METAL oil pan and ammo cans start to get cut.

and ID highly advise having the car up on jack stands or a lift so you can constantly go back and test fit to make sure what your envisioning and what your actually building has some similarity with reality, and don,t forget to swing the steering wheel lock to lock to check suspension clearance, and have the headers , and oil filter and starter,installed
( just saying because Ive been down that road dozens of times)

PLEASE TAKE AND POST A FEW PICTURES AS YOU PROGRESS WITH THE PROJECT
 
I will check Grumpy.
Its Rear Steering Parallel Steering linkage .
Engine bay is huge so I can keep it simple and big sump.
May use a tube through design for a few pan bolts.

I can have the 403 olds out in 1 hour myself.
Hood stays on.
 
I ran across these first two pictures, on a different site and felt they could be useful as a teaching aid,
the owner obviously has installed a slosh baffle gate in the lower sump and the rear area has what appears to be a partial windage screen, obviously this will function better than if he had not taken any effort and simply installed a open oil pan sump like most cars engines come with, but he stopped well short of the ideal oil control level that could have been reached.
I think the screening must have been having a clearance issue in the forward area of the oil pan under the forward four cylinders from the look of the way the screen was cut, now assuming there was room and no suspension or cross member prevented it a deeper pan or modifying the current oil pan seems like an option, a solid sheet metal horizontal upper sump slosh baffle should have extended back under the windage screen , and over the oil pan sump at the level of the upper oil pan floor ,well past the location of the swinging oil gate , to prevent oil from rushing forward under hard braking, not having the upper plate in place defeats a great deal of the purpose of having the lower slosh gate
(similar to the third picture)
KEEP IN MIND THERES SEVERAL THINGS GOING ON IN A PROPERLY DESIGNED OIL PAN
THE MAIN OBJECT IS TO MAINTAIN A CONSTANT DEPENDABLE SUPPLY OF OIL OVER THE OIL PUMP PICK UP, and REDUCE THE RESISTANCE THE SPINNING CRANK SEES PUSHING RETURNING OIL AROUND IN THE CRANK CASE
(1)the upper full length slosh plate,over the baffles and gates direct oil to the oil pump
(2)the screen allows oil to flow along the upper surface of the slosh plate back to the sump without the spinning crank assembly picking it up and circulating it in the crank case
(3)the screen shears off oil flow passing over its surface and directs oil into protected routes back to the sump

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the area behind the screen but over the sump forms a semi-protected path for oil flow forced by the spinning crank assembly to easily travel back to the sump. yet prevents oil slosh under hard braking
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a windage screen like these mounted over the slosh plate adds a good deal more efficiency
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On oil pans I prefer studs, and an oil pan back plate
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you might want to Use with P/N 12553058 RH and P/N 12553059 LH oil pan reinforcement plates to distribute the bolt stress on the oil pan rail for 1985 and earlier oil pans P/N 14088501 (LH) and P/N 14088502 (RH).1986 and newer

HERES A DIFFERENT MANUFACTURERS OIL PAN,the oil pan below LACKS a SLOSH PLATE over the sump area and has very limited windage protection of the oil in the sump as a result, so even though it may look impressive it will likely not prevent oil windage effectively or force oil back into the sump or protect and trap oil under high g-loads during cornering or braking

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See what I can build Grumpy.
$ is tight for all.
Olds 425 is not going to make 900-1000 Hp.
400-425 Target on 87 octane pee water is my goal.
Torque is really more important. 4,200 #'s to move.
Guaranteed at least 360 HP & 470 FT/lbs stock.
More than the 1973 & 74 Pontiac SD 455 Had and was the fastest production pump gas engine built from the muscle car era. A few guys got the SD 455 Birds in 11's with stock long block & JR Long tube headers.
 
Interesting find Grumpy the Dyno charts.
The Old HO Racing Pontiac Books I have list Dyno claims of 20-25 HP increase alone using the Factory 1965-69 Full lenngth windage tray Vs without it.
There is a built in crank scraper too. Crank scraper is not as good as as a Hand fabricated part but still present. for all 8 Rod throws..

Bought a 3rd factory Poncho full length windage tray.
I have 4 all together now. That's enough for all future Poncho & Olds V8 engine builds I have in mind.
Only 426 Hemi had similar windage trays.
Not sure why not on all Musclecar era engines.
 

Getting rid of a 20 year old computer. Before I did I pulled the guts out and
saved the case. Looks like good material for an oil pan modification, the metal
is .050 inches thick. This case is considerably heavier than the ones I get today.

The hard drive cage is two 15 inch sections that could be put side-by-side and
used for a windage tray.



 

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keep in mind, your engines oil capacity may not be limited by the oil pan sump capacity alone, having a larger oil capacity, in an engine, tends to improve lubrication , as it lowers the potential for air being trapped in the oil flow, or intermittent pressure swings and delay oil degrading in quality , as the additives are used and contaminants accumulate and help stabilize or at least slow rapid changes in temperature.
this can be rather important when room under the engine is limited by the cross member, suspension or sump to pavement clearance issues ,
but youll be hard pressed to get the sump depth less than about 7" on most small and big block engines due too the oil pump design, unless you go with a dry sump with its belt driven side mount oil pump
you can add dual long length , remote mounted oil filters, an oil cooler and an accumulator to add a great deal more potential capacity

https://www.yardstore.com/


http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-accumulator.1280/#post-18703

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/whats-a-windage-tray-do.64/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...l-level-in-oil-pan-with-engine-running.11263/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...oil-passages-and-improved-oil-flow-mods.3834/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-system-basics.615/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/chevy-oil-pump-main-stud-install-info.1192/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/dry-sump-oil-systems.1058/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-system-mods-that-help.2187/#post-11569

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...essure-bye-pass-circuit-works.3536/#post-9372
 
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http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/thin-metal.htm

http://www.thefabricator.com/article/arcwelding/choose-wisely-when-welding-thin-sheet

http://www.eastwood.com/blog/eastwood-chatter/10-tips-to-make-a-better-mig-weld/

http://www.cartechbooks.com/techtips/mig-butt-welding/

http://www.autobodystore.com/new_page_11.shtml

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while its unlikely to work well on an oil pan fabrication process ,these clamps could be used in place of CLECOS
If you have some time to spare,and your welding sheet metal panels you can make low cost clamps
make a bunch of these from 1" box steel tube, small screw eyes and wing nuts

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It's like 1x1 square tubing, some eye bolts and some sheet metal
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They hold a perfect gap and make fitting and welding much easier.
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Make or buy a bunch as the more the better.
This gap was kinda fat as I messed up the hood line up,
but it was easily fixable.
I do like to tig though.
 
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Never did build my custom oil pan for my Olds 425 engine Grumpy.
Its in.
A pretty tight fit.
No way to build a custom oil pan with Test fitting in the car .
 
I am Following the New Crowmod Pontiac Twin Turbo Racecar.
3,000 HP.
6-Second ET.
I think he needs a Dry Sump oil system.
That Pontiac is real Fast Grumpy.
Amazing also because the Pontiac V8 Design dates back to 1946 on Blueprint paper.
 
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