chain vs gear drive cam

[grumpyvette]

Gear drive VS chain cam drives,

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLO-9-1100/

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Instr ... es/117.pdf

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5734&p=17492#p17492

http://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstruc ... -20325.pdf

http://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstruc ... 0-7892.pdf

read thru these threads and sub linked info also

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1761&p=5980&hilit=+chain#p5980

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=205&p=241&hilit=+vibrations#p241
ALL TIMING CHAINS STRETCH OVER TIME, the BETTER/MORE EXPENSIVE ONES TEND TOO LAST FAR LONGER, THAN THE CHEAPER VERSIONS and PROPER LUBRICATION HELPS THEM LAST LONGER
Id first point out that a CLOYES true roller chain cam drive will work just fine in most applications, but you need to check the slack every 20,000 miles or so after 60,000 miles or more if your using the car for serious performance applications and higher rpm operation, replace the old timing chain after about 60,000 miles if you want to maintain precise timing,under the conditions most guys put street engines, but I constantly hear guys repeating the MYTH that all gear drives cause harmful harmonic loads to be transferred to the cam, I,ve tested, and checked extensively and all the gear drives I've looked at very closely, tend to maintain the correct timing longer and have no bad problems and certainly last far longer than the chain drives WHEN CORRECTLY INSTALLED AND INDEXED

drilling an oil passage plug with a .oo31 hole to provide a constant bath of hot oil spray on the gear or chain drive timing set tends to add too and aid durability.

drilling the pass side oil passage plug with a 1/32" bit so oil constantly sprays on the timing gears helps extend chain and gear life.
btw the multi part timing chain covers that allow a faster cam change are available at a not much increased price for some 1966-1990 BBC applications,
obviously youll want to ask questions and get the correct matched components for your application.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-312/overview/
and sbc
$265
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-310

BTW if you soak a new timing chain and gears in a pan , covering them in a mix of synthetic oil and moly assembly lube and heat them to about 220 degrees to allow the oil to penetrate into the metals pores it will tend to pre-lubricate the chain and gears more effectively than just installing them dry, and from what Ive seen they last slightly longer, a cheap tin pan can be used, and if you don,t have an IR temp gun(you really should get one) adding a 1/4 teaspoon of water to the oil and watching it boil off as an indicator that the oils up to temp is a good idea, as you don,t want to over heat the oil or smoke up the kitchen

Starting in 1987 GM began using a hydraulic roller cam in their production car engines.
This required a cam thrust plate on the front of the block.
The step in the nose of this cam (left) identifies it as a cam intended for use in a production roller cam block.

If your ever in doubt, about the correct timing chain application,
CALL THE TECH GUYS AT CLOYES
cloyes tech dept 1-479-646-1662 EXT 228
with the older style non-step nose cam, in the newer style "08" block, you will NOT use the retainer plate
you should use a cloyes 9-3100 timing chain, set

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-3100

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/semi-fool-proof-cam-sellection.82/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...hanics-of-adv-ret-a-camshaft.4532/#post-12050

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cam-drive-details.3809/#post-10226

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/wear-plate.3777/#post-10011

I tend to favor QUIET gear cam drives, in some applications

in PERFORMANCE ENGINE BUILDS,over chain drives , because chain drives get slack and tend to allow the cam timing to vary with rapid engine load changes like during shifts
http://www.cloyes.com/HighPerformance/P ... fault.aspx
except in cars with KNOCK sensors, where the slight gear whine might cause the knock sensor to randomly retard the ignition timing.
Ive used several different brands and find nothing wrong with a CORRECTLY INSTALLED Pete Jackson dual idler gear drive, in fact Ive used that (QUIET) Pete Jackson gear drive, in the 383 thats been in my corvette for several years with zero problems
as with most parts, installation must be correct, clearances checked, ETC. or youll HAVE PROBLEMS!, READ/UNDERSTAND THE INSTRUCTIONS, and ASK, QUESTIONS and know the reasons and answers , before installing any part or youll probably run into problems, Id have changed several chain drives bye this time, but the same gear drive I installed over 8 years ago still works fine and maintains the correct clearances
but Ill also point out I run a high volume oil pump, a 10 baffled QT oil pan and have extra oil jets drilled (#60 drill bit)in the oil passage plugs behind the cam gear

READ THE LINKED INFO CAREFULLY
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ped-nose-cam-in-early-block.14182/#post-71937

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/semi-fool-proof-cam-sellection.82/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-street-roller-cam-selection.5709/#post-46850

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...a-better-cam-to-a-zz3-350-sbc.182/#post-26013
http://www.engineersedge.com/drill_sizes.htm
the two outside plugs

the idlers seem to sort of float front to back. I guess install the balancer without the timing cover and check?

thats part of the install process place (with the gasket) using a large lump of modeling clay , and dial calipers

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=2079569&PMT4NO=9937412


http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?leve...rue&An=text


Under the timing cover and test bolt it in place, remove the clay an carefully measure the clearances..
(BTW spray the inside cover and the block with WD 40 first it tends to prevent the clay from sticking)the axles on the idler gears should have about a .002-.010 clearance between the cover and the block, this keeps the gears running in the same basic track once the engines assembled, you don,t want the axles to bind/or be in constant contact, under tension with the cover, as that might tip/bind the gear, and a light coat of moly on the gears wont hurt. This frequently requires a light touch of a file to shorten the axles a few thousands, but youll not know without TESTING for the correct clearances with the clay :grin:

youll also need the retaining plate, cam button and loc-tite

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MOR-60460&N=115&autoview=sku

 

[Grumpy]

Ive occasionally been asked what you can do too reduce the slack in the timing chain if your blocks been line honed,
to straiten the main bearings and that resulted in a slightly closer crank to cam center-line distance,
that results in a slightly increased slack in the stock timing chain sets.
a negligible amount of metal is generally removed from the main bearing saddles in the block, they usually try very hard to minimize that, metal removal so standard parts still fit,during a line hone , but they do sell slightly tighter timing chain sets to correct excess slack if that's required.

FIRST GEN, SBC CLOYES ROLLER TIMING SET
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-1100/overview/

MARK IV BBC CLOYES ROLLER TIMING SET 1965-90
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-c-3024x/overview/

MARK VI BBC CLOYES ROLLER TIMING SET 1991-95
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...-specific/engine-family/chevy-big-block-gen-v

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-4760
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-3100-5
Timing Chain and Gear Set, Original True Roller, Double Roller, -0.005 in., Iron/Steel Sprockets, Chevy, Small Block, Set
for line honed blocks where the crank is .005 closer to the cam

the double roller cloyes timing chains tend to last longer before they wear and have excess slack
and they can be used with the stock O.E.M timing chain cover

This looks like a darn bargain
the double roller cloyes timing chains tend to last longer before they wear and have excess slack
and they can be used with the stock O.E.M timing chain cover

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/timing-tabs-and-indicators.1015/#post-49812

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/SB-Chevy-Ch...265086?hash=item2a6c66393e:g:jPgAAOSwRgJXiXxM

TRUE DOUBLE ROLLER TIMING CHAIN SETS FROM QUALITY MANUFACTURERS TEND TO BE MORE DURABLE

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-3100-10
for line honed blocks where the crank is .010 closer to the cam
Timing Chain and Gear Set, Original True Roller, Double Roller, -0.010 in., Iron/Steel Sprockets, Chevy, Small Block, Set

related info
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ped-nose-cam-in-early-block.14182/#post-71937

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cam-drive-details.3809/#post-16765

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...hanics-of-adv-ret-a-camshaft.4532/#post-12048

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-get-it-to-last-cam-install-info.90/#post-114

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cam-spacer-buttons.1793/#post-4553

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/chain-vs-gear-drive-cam.781/

related threads
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/chain-vs-gear-drive-cam.781/#post-72280

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/timing-chains-stretch.5734/#post-17492

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/how-to-pick-timing-gear-set.4548/#post-43700

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cam-degreeing.9010/#post-35474

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/timing-chains.2209/#post-32459

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...rect-variable-valve-timing-kit-chev-sb.14272/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...get-it-to-last-cam-install-info.90/#post-2339

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cam-spacer-buttons.1793/#post-6121

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/how-to-pick-timing-gear-set.4548/#post-12699

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/timing-chains-stretch.5734/#post-17492

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...s-a-flat-tappet-design.3802/page-2#post-68942

 

[Grumpy]

camshaft gear drive sets are made by several manufacturers and in both quiet and noisy design configurations
for many popular engines BBC and SBC versions are common.
you will constantly hear people tell you that the noisy version disrupts the EFI knock sensor use,
but I've run a SBC pete jackson QUIET cam gear drive,
on my 383 for several decades with zero problems, and I've also used a cloyes chain drive, on many engines, personally I will use either with zero hesitation, but I like the gear drives
theres not a thing wrong with using a CLOYES chain cam drive ,
but in theory, the gear drives a bit more precise.
https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/203...MItP_w5qyg6gIVStbACh23nQe4EAQYBiABEgIyZvD_BwE

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...MItP_w5qyg6gIVStbACh23nQe4EAQYBSABEgJCRfD_BwE

SBC

be aware CLOYES makes marginally shorter chain drive sets for blocks that were LINE HONED,
where the crank has been moved a few thousand's of an inch closer to the cam centerline,
where a gear drive may not fit with the correct clearances

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/how-to-pick-timing-gear-set.4548/#post-43700
BBC

Installing a Pete Jackson Gear Drive On a Chevy 454
By Kevin Webel
7/31/2017
Tags: Tech, 1954 Chevy Bel Air, Engine Camshaft and Valvetrain, Street Rod, Street
I remember the first time I heard a gear drive in a vehicle. I was 13 years old riding shotgun in my dad’s truck pulling our swap meet trailer with all the goodies to sell at the Rocky Maginelli Memorial Swap Meet here in Lincoln, Ne. It was way early in the morning, at that age it felt like 2 a.m. but in all reality it was closer to 7. We were in line waiting our turn to pull into the fairgrounds and this lifted square body Chevy 4x4 pulled up next to us, engine just whining away as it idled. I asked my dad, “What’s that noise?” He said, “It’s a Pete Jackson Gear Drive.” From that day on I swore I would have one in a vehicle someday. So when I had my 1st true muscle car, a 1969 Chevelle SS, what did it have? Yep, a noisy Pete Jackson Gear Drive.

Here is a little history of the Pete Jackson Gear Drive. The company was established in 1967 by Pete Jackson as Jackson Fuel Injectors Inc. With their long port runners and precision metering valves and fuel pumps, they had the strongest midrange of any port injector of their time. Some of the fastest drag cars and track cars used Pete's injectors. Even today most of the Top Fuel and Funny Cars are running patented metering valves designed by Pete Jackson. In 1971, Pete designed and patented the original Pete Jackson Dual Idler Gear Drive. The design was so unique it was granted two US patents. Pete Jackson gear drives were always made in the USA and manufactured from billet alloy steel. Since Pete's creation of the gear drive, there are numerous brands being produced by different companies for a wide range of engines. I chose, of course, to use Pt# 91578410, Speedway Chevy B/B 396-454 Premium Noisy Gear Drive for the 454 I am installing in my 54 Belair. Installation is pretty straight forward so let's get one put in.

My 454 had just come from the machine shop where it received 030 dome pistons and 10/10 on crank and rod bearings. I installed the camshaft into the block using plenty of Isky Rev-Lube Pt# 450R4. Then I installed the camshaft gear. I coated the Torrington bearing on the back of the gear with Pt# 60710004, Redline Engine Assembly Lube. The Gear Drive comes with 5 different buttons for camshaft advance/retard that are identified by color.

I chose to go with the Gray, 0 degree button for now. So first on went the gear with the 0 degree button.

Then the lock plate for cam bolts and the 3 supplied cam bolts/washers. I then torqued them to 21 ft/lbs. Once torqued I bent the lock plate tabs over the head of the bolts. Next was the crankshaft gear. Make sure to check the crankshaft for any burs or defects that might hinder the installation. Clean up if necessary using emery cloth. I then installed the crankshaft gear lining up the keyway. Once I had both gears installed I rotated the crankshaft to top dead center on the number one cylinder. The timing mark on the crankshaft will be at the 12 o'clock position. Then I rotated the camshaft until the timing mark was at 6 o'clock. I installed the thrust bearing into the center of the camshaft gear. It is designed for a stock steel or chrome timing cover. However you should always check for the proper clearance.

I put some putty on the end of the thrust bearing and bolted the timing cover up with a new gasket. Once tightened down I removed the cover and checked the thickness of the putty. You need .005 to .010 clearances from the cover and the thrust bearing. If you don’t have the clearance you will need to grind the end of the thrust bearing until proper clearance is achieved. Mine fit just right so I moved on to checking the idler gear, also called dog bones, for clearance. I placed the idler gear half way in between the cam gear and crank gear and used the timing cover to push it the rest of the way on, using the same clearance putty on the back side of the idler gear axle (chamfered side). Once the cover was flush with the block I pulled it off and checked for clearance between the block and idler gear. Recommended is .005 to .075, the idler gear should not sandwich between the block and timing cover. If it did touch you would need to grind the idler axle for clearance.

With all the clearances checked I then installed the timing cover for the last time with the dog bone in the correct place, the big gear to your left when facing the engine, and the timing marks in the 12 and 6 location on the gears. My gear drive was installed and ready for whining!

Multiple versions are available when it comes to camshaft gear drives, single idler, dual idler, noisy and quiet ones. Everyone I have talked to either love them or hate them. I for one love the distinct sound a dual idler gear drive creates, the reason I went with the noisy one. Not to mention they last a lifetime with no timing chain stretch. And though people claim they rob an engine of horsepower, all the dyno tests I checked show no such evidence. Not to mention the positive effect it has on ignition timing at high RPM. And of course, the whine itself.