Code 44 lean condition on 84 C4

S

Stick the Corners

Well-Known Member
Need advice trying to understand/interpret the significance of my check engine light in my 84 C4.
The code in memory from the ALDL is 44 -lean condition. This occurred when loafing on a highway. However, after pulling over and turning the ignition off, the light went out and stayed off despite driving 25 miles of highway and on spirited windy roads.

1)Since the light went out and did not return immediately after engine restart, is this what is meant by an intermittent fault?

2)Since code 44 was retained in memory, the shop manual said the ECM would run in open mode. Does that mean it is not using any info from the O2 sensor on the exhaust manifold?

3)Will the ECM in open mode just cause the engine to run rich to protect itself leading to subnormal power and reduced gas mileage?

4)There are several things that can cause a lean condition, but is the most likely a defective original 1984 O2 sensor on a 40K mile car?

5)Secondarily, do I need to work up things that can reduce fuel flow?
 
Id look for a leaking vacuum hose, or loose gasket etc. as the potential source of the issue
yes it might be an exhaust leak or a defective oxygen sensor, as with everything else check the basics what fuel pressure are you,
getting at the inlet port of the throttle bodies? does it drop off as the engine rpms increase?

please let us know what you find out!

locating vacume leaks

locating those intake manifold or other vacuum leaks is fairly easy if you have a tachometer and a propane torch yeah the way I find vacuum leaks on carb OR MPFI intake manifolds is clean and easy with no mess. get a propane torch,or you can use your oxy-acetylene welding torch if you have...
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got a cross fire corvette

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I got asked to help supervise on a c4 corvette fuel pump replacement

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replacing a c-4 fuel filter and other maintenance

http://www.mamotorworks.com/corvette-c4 ... -9309.html RELATED INFO http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/replacing-a-c-4-fuel-pump.33/ http://www.ecklers.com/product.asp?pf_i ... pt_id=1303...
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renegade intake? for cross fires

To answer your question; No I did not bore my throttle bodies out, however I did do the bushings. At the time I was having some idling issues, but it did not cure it at all. The issue turns out was with my tune. I also confirmed recently that I'm running out of "VE" fueling @ 4,000RPM with...
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Thanks for the links. I’ll be buying my propane torch and looking for induction leaks.

However, the car seems to start and run fine both before and after the 44 code. The poor gas mileage could very well relate to my heavy and playful foot.

The question about intermittency of the Check Engine Light (CEL) coming on would seem to have great significance in the decision tree.
For example, after resetting the codes, if the CEL does not come on, then can we presume the ECL and all the sensors are working properly up the point at which a new CEL comes on?

So if I shut the engine down after a CEL, and then restart, or if the light spontaneous goes off, the 44 code lean condition is still in memory. But is the engine still in open mode even if it acts normally?

I just drove the car today about 40 miles spirited on the highway, and on windy roads, and in stop and go in traffic without a whimper, and no CEL.

I’m questioning whether this could be just a temporary electrical contact issue that would be hard to find. And if so, I wonder if it truly matters then.
(I may clean the contacts on my ECU)

I think that some type of driving may ultimately provide a clue as to what sets off the lean condition light, for example maybe the fuel pumps marginal status may occasionally be the offender.

But if it takes 50-60 seconds of lean condition actually existing for a repeat code, my car is not often providing that. On the other hand, if a constant induction leak somewhere exists, it is presumably small enough or related to an occasional sticking valve (EGR, PVC, other) that it seems to matter not, most of the time.

I certainly don’t want a chronic lean condition that could burn the valves or cause other failure. But is this that? Further advice Please.
 
Id pull the plugs label then as to what cylinder they were in, and look at them very carefully,
you can learn a great deal from the condition of the spark plugs
 
Grumpy said:
Id pull the plugs label then as to what cylinder they were in, and look at them very carefully,
you can learn a great deal from the condition of the spark plugs
Click to expand...

I took out two easy to get to plugs from cyl 2 and 4.

I stopped because they looked white, or lean to my inexperienced eyes. I can take them all out if needed.
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If you agree with that lean assessment, I should add some additional history and findings to the story:

So prior to this last check engine light, I noted that the
Crankcase Vent Hose was not inserted into passenger side valve cover hole. This was probably the case from a “professionally done tune up “about 5 years and 1000 miles ago.
After replacing the tube into the valve cover hole, that is when I went on the aforementioned 50 mile drive where the CEL came on after 25 miles throwing the code 44, which has not recurred.

I bring this up because, when I removed the air filter top to inspect the innards for possible leaking vacuum hoses, I noted some oil at the base of the air filter all around. I did not know if this was normal but was interested in the PVC valve to test it, which I have not done yet.

The service manual said that oil in the filter was a sign that the PVC valve or the hose/connection to the intake could be blocked.

So, is PVC valve system blockage/malfunction responsible for the oil in the filter housing, or is it just as likely it was related to the unconnected Crank Vent Hose alone in some way. If it is the fault of the PVC valve, then I wonder if that could be why the code 44 lean condition was sent.
After I put the plugs back, I will pop out the PVC valve to see if it causes a suction on my finger at idle, and then disconnect it to shake it.
If it seems to be normal, then I’ll remove the air filter housing completely, and test for a propane surge at idle.
BTW, the TBI is interesting in its visible fuel injection spray, and very noisy.
 
FIRST OFF BASED ON THE POSTED PICTURES, YOU'RE NOT RUNNING EXCEPTIONALLY LEAN ,
and if the PVC valves not functional its reasonably cheap to replace, I still suspect the OXYGEN SENSOR(s)

spark plug info

spark plug info..SO!...read thru the links theres a ton of good info, but its spread over all the links, if you can get that skill mastered your well ahead of most guys who fail to take the time and effort to learn that skill guys frequently ask me what plug gap to use, Provided your ignition...
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reading plugs

YOU REALLY NEED TO READ THRU ALL THESE THREADS AND SUB LINKS TO GET A GOOD BASIC UNDERSTANDING http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html http://www.strappe.com/plugs.html http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/383-with-ignition-knock-issues.14293/#post-72961...
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these links should help
pcv_system_extracting_moisture.jpg

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/catch-can-related-info.4636/#post-12610

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/crank-case-blow-bye-and-related-info.16790/



http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...breather-hole-in-valve-covers.2005/#post-5328

Installing New O2 Sensors

I noticed on Asian brand cars, Toyota specifically, theses sensors are not accessible under the car. Quite often you must take off everything with the wiper assembly, the cowl and wire harness(s) attached to the cowl too. Then you can see down behind the engine and see the exhaust manifold and...
garage.grumpysperformance.com


http://auto.howstuffworks.com/positive-crankcase-ventilation-system.htm
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/reading-spark-plugs-with-a-drill.16823/

http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html
 
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Learning a lot from those links. That is encouraging about the mixture being in the good lean side.

So is that sufficient evidence to eliminate “too lean” or do I need to sample a plug from the driver-side bank of cylinders?

I’ll go ahead and clean out the oil from the air filter housing and change the PVC valve, and do the propane check, but would you wait for a new CEL before replacing the O2 sensor now( AC/Delco ) if no other abnormality found?
 
yeah, I think if you proceed as you list /suggest it will get you closer to solving the issue or at least narrow the potential sources of any issues. :like:

HAVE YOU REPLACED THE CORVETTES FUEL FILTER UNDER THE PASSENGER SEAT NEAR THE FRAME RAIL YET??
HAVE YOU REPLACED THE OXYGEN SENSORS YET?

1984 CHEVROLET CORVETTE 5.7L 350cid V8 Oxygen (O2) Sensor | RockAuto

RockAuto ships auto parts and body parts from over 300 manufacturers to customers' doors worldwide, all at warehouse prices. Easy to use parts catalog.
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O2 sensors are not that expensive. You said the car only has 40,000 miles which is a plus, but for many parts on a C4 (or in my case a 82 C3), it's not miles it's just age catching up ( happens to us all I hear). O2s can be stubborn to remove after several years so rather than having them "weld" themselves in place, a propholatic switch out is, in and of itself, not a horrible idea. Sadly, both my C3 and your C4 need to be rather consistently checked for vacuum leaks. As a safer alternative to propane or brake fluid etc. , check our a small smoke machine on the jungle web site. Not horribly expensive at all and works like a charm for even the smallest leaks. Runs off your battery, uses mineral oil, but you do need "shop air" - even a little pancake compressor will be more than adequate. After you own one, you'll make many new friends who will be thankful you are willing to share!
 
While the O2 sensor may be the culprit, I’m developing another hypothesis as well. Just to reiterate, the engine starts up promptly, the idle remains steady and at reduced idle speed to about 700 rpm after a few moments, and the car performs well for a crossfire that could use more air and fuel to enlarge the rpm range past 3500.

So far no hint of a vacuum leak after propane testing. No change after the propane was around the PVC valve either, but the replacement is ready to go in anyway.

However, after clearing the Code 44, the CEL has been coming on intermittently and off spontaneously suggesting a pattern. So on the highway when the engine was lumbering in overdrive at low rpm in traffic was one occasion (can’t remember if A/C was on). Another occurred when in stop and go on a highway with the A/C on on a hot day. When the traffic block cleared up, normal highway speed operation occurred and the CEL was quickly extinguished.
Today after some spirited driving ( who am I kidding, it’s almost always spirited when I have the chance), while the A/C was on and then arriving in my home community at low speed and low rpm, the CEL came on.

Also while I’m not sure if this symptom was related, but after very twisty road driving, the engine seemed like it was missing and not making the usual power that it made earlier that morning on the same route, but that seemed to go away a bit later on the straits, I think. The next day it was definitely back to normal however. These later symptoms occurred with about 3/4 fuel tank, so I doubt fuel unporting.

Putting things together, and knowing that fuel pump output is directly related to voltage, the first set of symptoms could be related to my notoriously marginal 1984 original fuel pump putting out even less when line voltage is at a minimum.

Historically, I had a no start issue 5 years and 1000 miles ago, but I don’t remember if the fuel filter was changed on the tune up. So maybe the fuel filter, and filter sock are conspiring to create the lean code with a compromising fuel pump. Maybe the twisty turns were stirring up sediment in the tank that reduce filter flow further to cause the missing.

I have been looking at inexpensive fuel pressure testers, but it is not as easy as connecting to a schraeder valve on a fuel rail on a TBI. Without finding/getting the gauge that fits between the throttle bodies, I think getting a T fitting to test fuel pressure after the filter connection would work, while a long hose to the gauge would allow observing pressure fluctuations from inside the car.

While this would prove the impotence of the fuel pump and filters, and check the back pressure setting of the fuel regulator, I’m torn with just ordering an updated fuel pump already since it was anemic when new and probably worse now. I’ve got a new filter ready to go on.

While the other threads have given me comfort in knowing that a 1985-87 fuel pump would be definitely better, I like the RACETRONIX C43 kit which gives all the hardware (except a hangar), an overkill 255 l/hr pump, new in tank wiring, and a new harness that connects directly to the alternator while minimizing voltage drops along the way. It seems very sensible for about $180. But is this too overkill?(9-13 psi in a crossfire is the usual required fuel pressure but 13 is really the desired number, or more if one can verify recently updated regulators, and can adjust them. I’ve read the threads to know that a more powerful pump will be stepped down by the regulator, and will probably stay cool in loafing to achieve my minimal requirements.)

While this is plug and play, my biggest reservation is how to route that two piece bulkhead harness easily and safely. I may be mistaken, but that part does not look plug and play. Am I wrong with that, or can anyone give guidance how to easily route it?
Maybe Racetronix can food feed me.
 
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with the typical ethanol laced fuel, most of us use there's a very good chance the fuel sock in the tank the fuel pump or the fuel filter are partly clogged with micro trash or rust as the fuel tank will allow rust to form if the car sirs several days allowing the ethanol content to settle
Id suggest that you replace the fuel filter to see if that helps.
and yes having a fuel pressure gauge in the car or at least in the garage tool kit to verify the fuel pressure is a help in locating issues,
ID also point out that part of your symptoms might relate to a partly clogged catalytic converter


related linked info

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grumpyvette said:
keep in mind fuel pumps and the wiring are not running constantly and sloshing fuel tends to keep the components cool,
Click to expand...
Just a question about this statement as it may have a bearing on my potential pump change.

If I need it, I’ve already investigated the Racetronix 255 lph pump with their C43 kits nice replacement components. While this pump is not nearly the higher capacity of some others, it is way stronger than my original 84 pump.


So while my fuel regulator will be keeping system pressure likely 13 or 14 or less, unless adjusted higher, it would seem that while the engine is running, this pump will not be stopping. If that is true, then there will be much greater flow. That excess flow not needed to retain the regulated pressure will be bypassed into the return line back to the tank.



So my question is will this have any deleterious effects on the fuel accumulator or fuel regulator or the rest of the fuel lines? Since it is flow that is not at a high pressure, I’m thinking, if anything, the fuel flow will be cooler as a result. But, if there was some mechanism to actually reduce the running frequency of the pump, as that initial statement indicates, then I think there would be increased flow only on demand to retain pressure, instead of constant flow, and of lesser concern for my upgrade.
 
if the fuel pressure regulator keeps the pressure consistent and at a reasonable level
(not too high where it floods the throttle body)
it should be a marked improvement, and yes it may run constantly
keep in mind the 1984 dual throttle body fed system is designed to run at considerably lower fuel pressure than the 38-40 psi the tuned port 1985-1991 system runs at, yes Ive seen the later year tpi fuel pumps installed, and they worked and in some cases improved the performance, in others
it caused issues, it might be related to the fuel pressure reg or return lines or something else.
 
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Still having the intermittent check engine light despite PCV valve and fuel filter change.

I am dying to get to the fuel pump and change that out. The biggest problem with that is Racetronix customer service availability and their site return message system S…s. I did get one phone pickup about 3 weeks ago for initial info, and an email that did not really answer my questions.
I hate just ordering products from their site without really understanding stuff.
I may need to consider alternatives about pumps and wiring upgrades that increase reliability.

I did not think I needed a new hangar, but I could just get a brand new one that has new wiring and a C4 85-87 pump and be done with it.
 
I finally did get some communication with Racetronix.
I’ve realized that their pump and many other high performance pumps use about 10 amps whereas the more standard pumps use about 5 amps. Since higher electric power is not needed for that much higher HP, it seems silly to expend those extra amps without getting much out of it except increased flow back to the tank. Although, upgrading any of the wiring harnesses can’t hurt reliability.

So Grumpy, I’m going with the selections you picked out above ie the stainless steel sender unit from LILAND GLOBAL SUCO10, and the Delphi pump FE0110.

The confusing thing for me is that Liland Global, and other stainless sending units ie from Herko, list different part numbers for 84 and 85 corvettes and they insist you use the correct year part for your Corvette. They look identical but pricing is marginally different also. I still can’t figure out the differences.

The stuff that comes with it is not described so I had to call Liland Global in Syracuse up to find out that the kit comes with the gasket, screws, and what look like washers that I hope are O rings for the screws. Therefore, I will not need LILAND GLOBAL ILO8496 kit just for gasket, stews and washers.

Also, there is confusion between the electric fuel pumps. The pieces that are included in the Delfi FE0110 (the recommended 1985 pump) differ from those that come with the Delphi FE0115( the OEM pump for 1984).
I am hoping I won’t need those 1984 parts for the 1985 pump.

Finally, the strainer does not come with either the sending unit or the pump, so should it matter which one to order?
I remember reading in one of your links the development of an in tank filter blanket (?Is it from Edelbrock?)that really sucks up the fuel that prevents unporting from the tank pickup even at lower fuel levels (which I’ve read from the links can reduce pump life).
Unless there is an outright winner for the standard, I guess I’ll go with one of the Delphi varieties.

I also plan to drain and clean my fuel tank out when exchanging pumps as many advocate.
 
the main DIFFERENCE is the 1984 pumps designed to produce about 20 psi the 1985 about 40 psi
but remember a pump produces flow not pressure, pressure is the result of resistance to flow (the fuel pressure regulator) has most of the effect here
if you put the 1985 pump in a 1984 you've increased flow volume and marginally pressure because flow volume increased but the fpr is still bleeding off excess flow once the pressure reaches the design opening pressure,
when replacing the pump be sure you replace the filter sock on the pump and the regular system fuel filter
use a seperate fuel pressure gauge to verify effective fuel pressure

1984 crossfire vette won,t run right?

I have a 84 crossfire injection corvette I set the timing and it misses horribly if I advance the timing it idles high but takes gas better but still misses and stalls the computer throws code 51 I have two ECMs I've tried and two different chips still same problem and same code BUY A FACTORY...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
the OEM crossfire heads for 1984 are casting number 462624 76cc heads
462624 chevy head flow numbers
(these are the heads that came on the 1984 corvettes)
just a bit of info on those stock #624 head flow rates
.......intake....exhaust
.100..44..........41cfm
.200..101..........82cfm
.300.155..........125cfm
.400..182..........137cfm
.500..196..........140cfm

(THATS PATHETIC)
 
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I have a feeling leading me to a hypothesis that my old pump and/or strainer combination, coupled with the relatively low output of my alternator, causes both the lean CEL at low rpm and in traffic (which can last longer than the 50 seconds it takes to throw a code, while at high rpm loads my pump may be running out of enough peak flow that it may not even allow the regulator to keep enough pressure to feed the injectors properly. This would not throw a code since the high rpm situation lasts only seconds but it is still lean.

Down the road, I will probably tweak the regular to 13-14 psi to helo the fuel starvation situation.
 
you should do what you think is correct and what you will feel comfortable in doing and what is the easiest for you to instal and maintain.

lets logically look at options
if you use the 1984 setup it matches the dual throttle body EFI, but if the fuel filter, the fuel pump, the fuel lines, the throttle bodys, linkage or any other parts restricting flow it won't be functioning at 100% efficiency, the advantage here is every parts in theory directly interchangeable with what there are OEM.

if you upgrade to the 1985 parts you effectively at least potentially significantly increase the pump and whole fuel systems flow and resulting power making potential, but you'll need to modify the parts to fit and you may need to do some tuning and tweaking to get the newer components to function correctly as they may not directly interchange without minor mods, the advantage here is you in theory have a boost in both fuel volume and pressure as a result and that can result in more power over a wider rpm range

the OEM INTAKE MANIFOLD and CYLINDER HEADS ARE VERY RESTRICTIVE, a RENEGADE or modified OFFENHAUSER INTAKE and better aftermarket heads and a cam swap will do amazing things to the engine power potential.
(and yes youll want to verify the OEM or aftermarket fuel system keeps up with the rest of the engine potential)

as always there are links already posted in this thread and more to follow that you might want to read through.

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renegade intake? for cross fires

To answer your question; No I did not bore my throttle bodies out, however I did do the bushings. At the time I was having some idling issues, but it did not cure it at all. The issue turns out was with my tune. I also confirmed recently that I'm running out of "VE" fueling @ 4,000RPM with...
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1984 crossfire vette won,t run right?

I have a 84 crossfire injection corvette I set the timing and it misses horribly if I advance the timing it idles high but takes gas better but still misses and stalls the computer throws code 51 I have two ECMs I've tried and two different chips still same problem and same code BUY A FACTORY...
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http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/the-cross-ram-intake.623/#post-834

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...sfire-vette-won-t-run-right.10096/#post-39710

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/a-few-cross-fire-tips.303/#post-936

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/crossfire-sleeper.12732/page-2#post-65554

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/setting-up-your-fuel-system.211/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/fuel-pressure-regulators.635/

what KILLS O2 sensors?

leaking injectors or any source of a constantly overly rich, fuel/air mix can and will eventually screw up your O2 sensors, try hard to tune your engine to stay in the 12:1-15:1 fuel air ratio range, the closer to 14.7:1 , and the less contaminates like coolant or moisture, the better the sensor...
garage.grumpysperformance.com

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/ported-crossfire-383.10240/#post-41065
 
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