decent cam supply sources

[grumpyvette]

these suppliers Ive used and trust, Ive had far less than IDEAL results from other sources and some are BIG NAMES..Ive dealt with many cam companies over the years and most of them have decent quality cams, the main area in which they differ is tech support and their willingness to work with customers, and how knowledgeable the tech guys are, in my experience comps tech guys rate dead last, the product is reasonably good but the tech support desk can use major improvement


After youve installed several dozen cams from several manufacturers and frequently called tech support you get a feel for how a manufacturer treats customers and how well components fit, function and how they stand up over time,just over all results, Ive rarely had any issues with CRANE, CROWER, or ERSON parts or service, or tech support Ive had minor issues with LUNATI,ISKY ,tech support but not anything serious that was not eventually tracked down to either miss information on installation or errors in customer installs both easily avoided

there are other manufactures that seem to have a few hopelessly incompetent tech support people, with only a loose grasp on mechanics or engine assembly

read thru these threads
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=82&p=105&hilit=+fool#p105

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=155&p=189&hilit=+suppliers#p189

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=324

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1070

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=480

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181

suppliers
why not call
crane,1-866-388-5120
crower,1-619.661.6477
erson,1-800-641-7920
lunati 1-662-892-1500
isky 323.770.0930
clay smith 714-523-0530
http://www.crower.com/

http://pbmperformance.com/store.php?catId=327 (ERSON CAMS)

http://go.mrgasket.com/pdf/Chevrolet.pdf

http://www.cranecams.com/

http://schneidercams.com/

http://www.bulletcams.com/

http://www.claysmithcams.com

http://www.bulletcams.com/BulletCatalog.htm

https://shop.enginekits.com/osb/showite ... tegory=445 (ELGIN CAMS)

http://www.elliottsportworks.com/lt1.html

http://store.chetherbert.com/

http://www.dougherbert.com/

http://www.straubtechnologies.com/

http://www.pbm-erson.com/splash.php

http://www.iskycams.com/

http://www.lunaticams.com/

http://www.howardscams.com/index.php?op ... &Itemid=27

http://www.tpis.com/index.php?module=ca ... lic+Roller

http://www.cranecams.com.au/pdfs/bluera ... 4-5-07.pdf (BLUE RACER)

for those that don,t know you have options on the cams you order, that are not limited to the catalog options, alone, but be aware it can get rather expensive, and its not unusually for special order cams to take a month or two to arrive.
generally you can select what you need and its a listed option, yes you might want to change an existing cam, by ordering it on a tighter or wider LSA, occasionally you might want a longer intake duration lobe, matched to a shorter duration exhaust, on a custom LSA, like with a turbo application

CRANE
http://www.cranecams.com/uploads/lobe/masterlisting.pdf

CROWER
http://www.crower.com/index.php/master-catalog/

ISKY
http://www.iskycams.com/onlinecatalog.html

claysmith
http://www.claysmithcams.com/camshafts/

erson
http://usaperform.com/-c-154_206.html

engle cams
http://www.englecams.com/downloads/2010 ... atalog.pdf

elgin cams
http://catalog.elginind.com/app/engine_ ... by+Part+No.

herbert cams
http://www.herbertcams.com/herbert-cams-cam-kits/

howard
http://www.howardscams.com/howards2015.pdf

lunati
http://www.lunatipower.com/Performance-Cams.aspx

 

[grumpyvette]

http://www.tavia.com/free_degree_wheel.html


read thru the links on this old thread, theres bits of useful info if your installing a cam

http://www.thedirtforum.com/chevyvalves.htm

http://www.2quicknovas.com/happyvalves.html

http://www.jimcookperformance.com/TechNotes/TN7ValvLash.html

http://www.centuryperformance.com/valveadjustment.asp

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/uhs89720.htm

http://www.boostandfuel.com/support/setting_valves.htm

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/87998/index2.html

http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/pontiacdude428/valveadj.html

http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/showfla...rue#Post1178811


this may help

after doing several comparisons between just installing a cam (DOT-to-DOT)

VS degreeing them in correctly, Im forced to point out that it depends to a HUGE extent on the CAM and how well it meets the specs.
while most cams Ive degreed in were well within about 2 degrees Ive seen some that were out of spec significantly (6 degs plus) if your useing a well known brand like CROWER,CRANE,LUNATI,ISKY etc. youll probably be fine, buy a bargin basement kit and your chances get better on problems, but youll still likely be ok. but degree it in correctly and you could easily gain(OR MORE CORRECTLY NOT CHEAT YOURSELF OUT OF, 5-10 hp) if the cams close to correct, if its well out side specs, youll never know it without degreeing it in and youll wonder whats wrong?

link to thread

keep in mind the cam may be within specs, and the roller chain gears or cam drive gears or the crank keyways ETC. may be out of speck also, thats one reason degreeing in the cam helps find problems

summit [color:"red"] $11 [/color] part # SUM-901064
ID ADVISE you spend the BIG BUCKS and get one before you screw up the crank or keyway

ways to turn over the engine WITHOUT the starter

theres large bolts for your ballancer

theres crank sockets

Crankshaft Socket Tool For turning AND MOUNTING Degree Wheels

CRANK NUTS

crank rotaters

flywheel turning tools

and your going to need at least one when you degree in a cam or do a compression or leakdown test

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=3292&prmenbr=361

this kit comes with a video tape instructions and most of the tools needed
its not a bad deal

HERES instructions to read over

http://www.thedirtforum.com/degree.htm

http://www.hotrodder.com/kwkride/degree.html

http://www.454ss.com/whitess/Camshaft.htm

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=article&id=3

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechServ/TechInfo/IECCTech8.html

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=27019

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=27015

moroso and TAVIA
http://www.tavia.com/cat0.html
carry most other tools youll need

 

[rlphvac]

just a question Grumpy & not to mention names per se but I spend a LOT of time reading your posts & a lot of copy paper & please dont sue me for copyrite violatinns cause all you will get is sueing practice !! but not to blow smoke I value youre opinion & wish I knew half what you forgot but does one of them doorstops have a thumper name in it IF you dont care to talk shit I understand you run an up & up site I dont understand computers but get ahold of me in another way (PM)? by the way Im makeing myself a notebook of posts of things I will be useing on my build 383 & suggestions are always welcome :mrgreen:

 

[grumpyvette]

lets just say that, after 40 plus years of building engines you see trends, in my opinion after seeing the results, of some products being used, that theres some cam designs, being sold, that never had the production of maximum potential torque and horsepower as the prime design goal,and were NOT the only criteria used in their lobe design, and if your more concerned with the EXHAUST idle sound than the engine efficiency or power curve, and if you select a cam design knowing that's the case.....your obviously more of a parking lot POSER than a guy concerned with building the fastest car , or the most powerful engine.
then add a tech department that rather consistently gives different answers to the same exact question asked on different days , or about identical combo and I tend to avoid dealing with them

“Quality means doing it right when no one is looking.”
― Henry Ford

“Quality is like buying oats. If you want nice, clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse ... that comes a little cheaper.”

an hour to a week spent in careful research,
before you buy or install parts,
can save you months or frustration
and easily 300%-to 500% of the eventually,
cost incurred in buying cheaper parts,in this hobby!


good quality parts tend to cost more, so expect to pay a fair price, remember the sweetness of low price tends to be forgotten long before the bitterness of living with low quality, that remains forever!

“It is quality rather than quantity that matters.”
― Seneca
“There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.”
― John Ruskin

"the quality of a man's life is in direct proportion to his commitment to excellence, regardless of his chosen field of endeavor".”

IN almost 100% of engine builds, your FAR better off purchasing and correctly installing a few high quality components, than you would be, after spending twice too three times as much money on, three to four times as many low quality parts randomly selected mostly because they were on sale!

GREAT DEALS!...RARELY ARE, looking back later!
heres thumpers advertising

http://www.compcams.com/thumpr/dynoresults.asp

heres COMPS OWN DYNO RESULTS

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/DynoSheets/

carefully compare the power produced on their own dyno with similar duration cam designs, the most powerful 295 thumper graph shows about 380hp, at almost 6000rpm the similar NON-THUMPER 294 comp cam shows about 410hp in a very similar combo at only about 5750rpm

Dyno Results

Camshaft Part # 12-254-3 Grind # XE294H-10
Duration @ 0.006": 294° / 306 Duration @ 0.050": 250° / 256°
Max Lift w/ 1.5RR: .519" / .523" Lobe Separation: 110°
Lobe ID#'s: 5449 / 5231 Intake Centerline: 106°
Engine Type: Chevrolet 350 Small Block
Bore: 4.040" Stroke: 3.480"
Displacement: 356ci Compression: 9.25:1
Heads: Dart Sportsman II Intake: Edelbrock Victor Jr.
Carburetor: Holley 750 dbl. pmp. Exhaust: 1 3/4" Headers
Max Torque: 394 ft*lbs @ 4100 RPM Max Power: 415 HP @ 5800 RPM
Manifold Vacuum: 8" Hg @ 1000 RPM & 10.5" Hg @ 1200 RPM w/ no load.

heres a video showing thumper quality control, or total lack of it depending on your views

http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/z135 ... _40_11.flv

 

[grumpyvette]

If your looking for a custom cam, its basically extra expense for no gain in 90% of the cases, the cam company's have spend millions on research and testing,
so, Id point out that if you look carefully for awhile
youll find what you want in the ,crane,crower,isky,erson,dougherbert ,schneider or lunati catalogs or you can ask and they will be glad to look thru their lobe library and find you what your looking for, PROVIDED its something that's likely to run 1/2 way decent
those company's have lots of experience, and its in their best interest to get your engine running correctly with their cam,
It may sound (COOL) to have a custom grind but Id bet nearly every effective combo, or something very very similar is available from one of the companies I listed above.

If youve ever called two cam companys and got distinctly different advice,
thats why IVE always suggested calling 5-7 cam company's and writing down the ,lift, lsa and duration each cam manufacturer suggests, and NEVER discussing with any cam manufacturer what any other cam manufacturer suggested, and AVERAGE the results,and select a cam close to that average, now once you understand cams better you'll spot the rather obvious mis-matches, but until then, this is a fairly safe route to take

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=82&p=105#p105

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=324

http://www.compcams.com/Camquest/default.asp

comp cams is now offering a free cam selection software,THIS IS A USEFUL TOOL, this is useful in seeing the lift/duration/LCA they suggest for your application, in most cases they get fairly close so its a tool thats useful, now you don,t necessarily need to buy a COMP CAM but a cam with a similar lift/duration/LCA from your favorite manufacturer probably should be fairly close to whats recommended

willing to spend a few bucks ,want far more detailed results and a program requireing FAR more detailed input??

http://www.auto-ware.com/software/eap/eap.htm

 

[rlphvac]

just read an article the other day in one of the magazines super chevy hot rod etc ? & they had a article on cams & stated how many people out there are running cams cause it sounded good in a friends car or a friend of a friend run this cam in his car & it runs & sounds good but is a totally different build & how many motors out there are wasted because of that idea of how to choose a cam

 

[grumpyvette]

I will always remember one of my college friends, that showed me an article, in a magazine about how some guy had installed a certain long duration (something like 250 degrees at .050 lift) cam in a basically stock engine ,with new valve springs, similar to this



he placed in fuel altered,rolling chassis he had purchased and ran 10 second times,adding that cam to what was basically a stock set of chevy 327 heads and short block, and running 10 second times caught my friends attention, big time, so he went and ordered the cam and lifters and called me over to help install it in his 63 impala with a 3.36 rear gear and a power glide transmission, that he had installed a corvette 327 engine in.
I read the article, and pointed out the fact that the car he owned weighed a good deal more than 1980lbs like the car in the magazine , but he insisted, so we installed the cam........which of course sounded like it belonged in a fuel altered...but ran like crap!
he lived with that combo for over 7 months before finally admitting that it was (LESS THAN IDEAL)he eventually let me select a cam and we installed it, and the car ran SOOOOO MUCH BETTER......Id played a trick of sorts on my friend in that Id called the cam manufacturers tech guys and told them my friend absolutely wanted his car to run better than stock but wanted a lopey idle, they suggested a cam very similar to this



I conveniently (LOST) the cams spec card and told my friend it was a (FULL RACE GRIND), he drove that car for many rears and was thrilled

 

[rlphvac]

crazy how things work isnt it

 

[rlphvac]

by the way if you are willing I would like to send you my cars specs & weight etc & basic #s i`m looking for if you would be willing to shoot me some suggestions as I value & trust your opinion & knoledge this is no hurry the car will be painted first & run in stock trim to work the bugs out & there will be many as I put this together as a basket case

 

[grumpyvette]

sure post info and Ill look it over

 

[rlphvac]

thanks grumpy as soon as I get a break here I own a heating & cooling buisness near Pittsburgh & its crazy cold up here now how about pipeing up some of that florida heat :lol:

 

[rlphvac]

I just spent 4 hours typeing you my letter & lost it somehow boy am I pissed

 

[grumpyvette]

you either learn to hit save after about every three paragraphs or that happens eventually to everyone, I know I sure have done it in the past UNTIL I learned :mrgreen:
look at it as a chance to clear up your thoughts and restate your ideas in a concise manor

 

[rlphvac]

you have too much patience my reaction was to toss the computer through the window but when I hit save is when I lost everything

 

[rlphvac]

Grumpy-I'm taking advantage of your offer of some motor build ideas. I read a lot of your posts & value your knowledge & opinion. First off let me tell you a little about my car. It's an 81 Vette approx 3300#. It will be used for H.P. street use & a few trips a year probably around 5000 miles or so. I will definitely take it to Carllile at least once a year - 3 hours all highway-a few trips to my cabin 1.5 hrs. highway & some mountain cruises that I usually do on my bike-beautiful scenery by the way. The car will have a 3:55 rear gear & currently a turbo transmission that I'm thinking of changing to a 200R4 if research proves its worth the effort. It is supposed to have a 2200 stall speed converter -but if its like everything else the P.O. told me about the car its all B.S. I have taken the frame off & redid all brake lines,calipers,VB&P front end etc. I purchased a new used motor-it was run but not much-it still had the hone marks on the cylinder walls & no carbon build up on the valves. Now this motor must have been planned by pulling parts #s out of a hat or throwing darts at a Summit book. It has reworked 305 casting heads with 58cc combustion chambers with stainless steel 2.02-160 valves-Beehive springs Pt #26981-16 comp cams-hydralic roller lifters w/o guideplates-a new GM cast crank & rods with .040 over flat top pistons. A comp cams gear drive & proform 1.5 roller rockers-an Edelbrock Victor Jr. air gap intake-3500-800 RPM & a thumper doorstop12-602-8 2500 RPM-it does have a good 4 bolt block. Now mind you I am as far from an engine expert that you can get but I think I have a little common sense & this setup probably ran like shit. I would like to re-use whatever possible from this engine-the roller lifters, rockers , gear drive; block. I have been looking at Ohio Crankshaft at a couple of their setups. One is a rotating assembly 383 street rodder SBC kit $1295 & & the other is a short block assy. 406 SBC with a new dart SHP block $3095. Besides these choices-the others are just as confusing & big questions about the heads, cam, intake, carb & ignition. I have been thinking about the msd billit distributer & 6 AL box with a rev limiter . About the heads-I really like the AFR 190 alum. For no other reason than they look better in their ad. Now IF THIS IS NOT THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK!! That I like the AFR because they have a better picture than the Brocix which I alsp like. I want good throttle response & low to mid range HP & torque & a good top EVD would be nice but I'd rather have the power where I can use it. I like your idea of smoking the tires at 60MPH but that may just be a dream with this setup. I would like the 450 HP range. The one thing I do like on the motor I bought is it has a chrome intake & sure looks pretty but is useless for what I want to build. But I remember what a buddy of mine told me who I raced with in the 70's-he ran a hemi Cuda & I asked him one day why his motor looked so plain-it didn't have any chrome & he told me chrome don't make them go any faster. I'll never forget that saying. He will be helping me along with this build making sure I don't fuck it up to bad. I'd like to keep the engine price around $5000 give or take but like everything else on the money pit (corvette) I'll probably end up at $50,000 but oh well I'm doing what I have to do to get what I want. But I'm still looking to get the most bang for the buck-but cutting corners is not an option. I want a forged lower end & as bullit proof of a setup that my budget will allow. I really like what I see from Ohio crankshaft & talking to them has always been a pleasure. They have always been helpful & willing to share info & help kind of like you. Anything helpful or any suggestions or changes or changes let me know or PM me. Nothing is etched in stond except that this will be built & the end result will be a good motor. By the way-you have had dealings with Ohio crankshafts. How are their products? You are the one that let me know about them so I have to guess they are OK. Have you had good luck with them? Any problems or issues? A couple of things to tell you - one is they call me overkill so I would rather overbuild than underbuild. The other is I'm running an L-88 hood so intake & carb clearance issues shouldn't be a problem. Thanks a million Grumpy for your time & help & if I ever get down your way the Beers on me.

 

[rlphvac]

sorry grumpy my wife typed this for me cause I didnt have 3 extra days to type this & found a few mistakes #1 is its a torbo 350 trans any other questions just ask thanks again RAY

 

[grumpyvette]

ok Ive had several people I know either buy components and/or engines from Ohio crank,and Ive bought a few components, that Ive used and no one yet has been disappointed, with the parts or machine work.
ok, basics, if youve got a good 4 bolt block and gear drive theres no reason not to use those, if you want to use the new 190cc heads thats fine, Ill try to maximize the low and mid rpm torque, but Id suggest a 2600rpm stall converter and that 200r4 trans will help a great deal, this combo may not quite reach your power goal but it should be close, you could very easily exceed that goal with a longer duration cam but the 3.55 rear gear , 2600 stall converter and your need to travel with the car without worrying about durability issues makes the milder cam vastly preferable

http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=24_117

but remember they are the vortec design and require a different intake, rockers,valve covers etc.

Id suggest you read thru this article and look at the basic components

http://www.airflowresearch.com/articles ... 1/A-P1.htm

heres the parts list ID suggest

heads(these will be fine)
http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=24_117
http://www.airflowresearch.com/contact_us.php

intake
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-75164/
(ID suggest a good 750cfm holley)

rotating assembly
http://ohiocrank.com/chevsb_rotate.html
http://ohiocrank.com/contactpage1.html

383 Street Rodder Small Block Chevy
* SRP forged flat-top pistons (order 17cc-20cc dish pistons)
* Forged I-beam 6" rods
* 5140 3.75 forged steel crank
* Race bearings and rings
* Internally balanced
$1,295

heres why, you want 17cc-20cc dish pistons on that 383 with that cam and those 65cc heads
http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp


rockers
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-66915C/


oil pan
http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/cgi ... ey=15-240M

cam (hydraulic roller)
http://www.crower.com/misc/cam_spec/cam ... 8&x=37&y=5
http://www.crower.com/misc/contact.shtml

assuming a .023 deck height and about a .021 head gasket and installing the cam at the split overlap position,in your 383 sbc, you should have a decent very solid street combo, that will give you a 9.5:1 static cpr and just under 8:1 dynamic compression so pump gas will run fine

talk to OHIO CRANK, CROWER and AIR FLOW RESEARCH before ordering ANYTHING to get their input & suggestions and tell them your goals

PERHAPS SOMEONE REALLY HELPFUL WITH A DESK TOP DYNO PROGRAM CAN POST A POTENTIAL POWER CURVE, USING THOSE SPECS ???.....KEEP IN MIND THE OBJECTS NOT PEAK POWER BUT THE TORQUE curve between 2500rpm and 5600rpm

 

[rlphvac]

one thing I forgot I have power brakes do you think this will be an issue

 

[rlphvac]

I hope I`m not being too much of a PITA but what 750 electric choke carb would you suggest & if I can sell my motor for what I have in it is there any downside with going with the 406 setup from Ohio crankshaft with the new dart block?

 

[grumpyvette]

I hope I`m not being too much of a PITA but what 750 electric choke carb would you suggest & if I can sell my motor for what I have in it is there any downside with going with the 406 setup from Ohio crankshaft with the new dart block?

theres only a noticeable upside, in power and durability to going with the 406/dart combo, most of the listed parts will work even better on the 406 displacement , provided the static compression stays at the 9.5:1 level , which with those heads would require a slightly larger dish piston

http://www.holley.com/0-80508S.asp