How much free play is good for the drive shaft from the distributor to the oil pump??
- Thread starter racprops
- Start date
ideally the shaft should have about .050-.060 clearance, look over the chart and the common oil pump drive shaft length listed
there are several length and several vendors, you'll need to measure accurately and maybe modify any oil pump drive shaft for the correct clearance! (look over and read the linked threads)
there are several length and several vendors, you'll need to measure accurately and maybe modify any oil pump drive shaft for the correct clearance! (look over and read the linked threads)
oil pump drive shaft is loose
I put in a new Melling m-55 oil pump with amoroso steel collar shaft #22070 in my 350 crate motor. With the distributor installed and fully seated, the shaft can move up and down 1/4 of an inch and this shaft doesn’t snap on to the pump as it does with the plastic sleeve.Is this normal? Thanks...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
oil system mods that help
heres a short list REMEMBER the object or goal in building and maintaining the lubrication system is too maintain a 100% dependable pressurized cooling flow of lubricant to the bearings, rockers ,valves etc. your most important tool, is your ability to think about how things are supposed to...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
installing an oil pump pick-up tube
there's two ways ,...... you can use the correct tool, which is ADVISABLE! use this oil pump(link below) in most stock SBC builds, as it produces a 10% increase in oil volume and standard pressure which is just fine , but obviously check your bearing clearances and oil pump to oil pan floor...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
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if its only .083 you can most likely run it without issues, but it's not ideal, it's probably acceptable,
obviously the option of brazing or welding on a bit of extra metal and grinding to length to get the ideal clearance, exists, but the heat required is likely to damage the heat treatment of the steel drive shaft making the potential (REPAIR ) more likely to cause eventual damage than the original current " "MINOR EXTRA CLEARANCE ISSUE, PROBLEM"
realistically theres most likely a couple hundred thousand engines currently running that much or more clearance without having issues
if thats the biggest issue your engine has your in great shape
read the links below, (BTW have you considered shimming your distributor gear on the distributor shaft,) with a .020-.032 shim to tighten the clearance
READ THROUGH THIS THREAD
obviously the option of brazing or welding on a bit of extra metal and grinding to length to get the ideal clearance, exists, but the heat required is likely to damage the heat treatment of the steel drive shaft making the potential (REPAIR ) more likely to cause eventual damage than the original current " "MINOR EXTRA CLEARANCE ISSUE, PROBLEM"
realistically theres most likely a couple hundred thousand engines currently running that much or more clearance without having issues
if thats the biggest issue your engine has your in great shape
read the links below, (BTW have you considered shimming your distributor gear on the distributor shaft,) with a .020-.032 shim to tighten the clearance
READ THROUGH THIS THREAD
shimming a distributor gear to get proper clearances
big2bird posted some of this , on a different thread but it needs to be here also, and I ADDED STUFF YOU NEED TO KNOW For those of you who have one, factory or otherwise, and you have noticed your timing jumps around instead of steady, here is your problem. As you accelerate/decelerate, the...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
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Are you talking about filling the gap between the gear and the distributor body and stopping the free play?? There is some there.
Please show me the part about sliming the distributor.
I am considering chucking the distributor in my lathe and taking a small cut ti allow it to sit lower taking up the gap.
Rich
Please show me the part about sliming the distributor.
I am considering chucking the distributor in my lathe and taking a small cut ti allow it to sit lower taking up the gap.
Rich
I just checked, the free play is just in the shaft from the pump to the distributor.
And if I lower the distributor. bu cutting .02 from it that might harm the aliment of the gear to the cam??
The only thing I can thing of is super gluing or JB Welding a .02 piece of metal into the tip of of the shaft coming out of the distributor. its self.
And that may then push the distributor shaft and gear up by .02/.03 which may not be a good idea either.
Rich
And if I lower the distributor. bu cutting .02 from it that might harm the aliment of the gear to the cam??
The only thing I can thing of is super gluing or JB Welding a .02 piece of metal into the tip of of the shaft coming out of the distributor. its self.
And that may then push the distributor shaft and gear up by .02/.03 which may not be a good idea either.
Rich
shimming a distributor gear to get proper clearances
big2bird posted some of this , on a different thread but it needs to be here also, and I ADDED STUFF YOU NEED TO KNOW For those of you who have one, factory or otherwise, and you have noticed your timing jumps around instead of steady, here is your problem. As you accelerate/decelerate, the...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
shimming the slack between the distributor body and gear helps INCREASE ignition timing stability and won't hurt anything with the gear to cam alignment, read the link look at the pictures,
you don.t modify the distrib body in any way you simply place a spacer shim washer between the distributor gear and the distributor body removing excess slack around the main distributor shaft
I thought that was what you were talking about.
OK there is .060 total play, so I need .050 shim...
Where can I get such a shim?
But that will not do any thing about the gap between the distributor and the oil pump??
How about I buy a second small set of feeler gauges and cut a .03 piece and super glue in onto the bar on the end of the distributor shaft to take up a little of the gap?
The good news is all this can be done after we stuff the motor into the van as all of it is done TO the distributor.
Thanks.
Rich
OK there is .060 total play, so I need .050 shim...
Where can I get such a shim?
But that will not do any thing about the gap between the distributor and the oil pump??
How about I buy a second small set of feeler gauges and cut a .03 piece and super glue in onto the bar on the end of the distributor shaft to take up a little of the gap?
The good news is all this can be done after we stuff the motor into the van as all of it is done TO the distributor.
Thanks.
Rich
have you even looked at the link? all the infos in the link, a picture of the shims and where to get some
shimming a distributor gear to get proper clearances
big2bird posted some of this , on a different thread but it needs to be here also, and I ADDED STUFF YOU NEED TO KNOW For those of you who have one, factory or otherwise, and you have noticed your timing jumps around instead of steady, here is your problem. As you accelerate/decelerate, the...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
I did and followed the instructions to us feeler gauges to find out how much gap I have and that they need a .010 gad for heat.
I also read about the gear last and timing changes.
I did not real all of it....I popped out to the shop and did the thing with the feeler gauges.
Rich
I also read about the gear last and timing changes.
I did not real all of it....I popped out to the shop and did the thing with the feeler gauges.
Rich
OH Dear, silly me just a page down... https://www.amazon.com/Moroso-26140-Distributor-Gear-Shim/ FYI they are $16.00 W/Free delivery on Amazon...
So about the .080 shaft travel?? Like up and down...
Rich
So about the .080 shaft travel?? Like up and down...
Rich
don't confuse the two clearance issues there should be less than .010-.015 up/down shaft travel between the distributor gear and distributor housing, once the distributors clamped in place on the intake manifold when shimmed correctly
Rule of thumb is 0.010" to 0.015". movement between the distributor gear and lower housing, thats not the same as the clearance between the oil pump drive shaft and the oil pump, the oil pump drive shaft should have about .050 up & down clearance with the distributor seated on the intake manifold, That stated you should be looking at the distributor housing wear area and place steel washer shims top, bottom or both to keep the gear as centered to the cam gear as possible. The bottom of the distributor housing wears during deceleration and the top while cruising.
if you seat the distributor and there's zero clearance so the distributor drive shaft has zero up & down clearance with the distributor clamped on the intake manifold, you need a distributor housing gasket or gasket and shim under the housing to intake clamping area this will prevent wear and excessive stress on the pump, you want .050 between the distributor drive shaft and the pump drive with the distributor seated and clamped.
distributor gasket shims go between the distributor housing and intake manifold
www.summitracing.com
distributor shims go between the distributor gear and distributor housing around the main 1/2" diameter distributor main shaft
www.summitracing.com
maybe this will help
www.summitracing.com
these shims go between the distributor seat flange and intake manifold to help keep the oil pump drive shaft clearance correct
to prevent binding on that drive shaft to the distributor gear.
www.summitracing.com
these shims go between the lower distributor body and the distributor to cam drive gear.
https://garage.grumpysperformance.c...istributor-to-the-oil-pump.18145/#post-118056
you also need to get the oil pump drive shaft length correct ,to get the clearance between the seated distributor and the distributor,
to cam drive gear clearance correct
Rule of thumb is 0.010" to 0.015". movement between the distributor gear and lower housing, thats not the same as the clearance between the oil pump drive shaft and the oil pump, the oil pump drive shaft should have about .050 up & down clearance with the distributor seated on the intake manifold, That stated you should be looking at the distributor housing wear area and place steel washer shims top, bottom or both to keep the gear as centered to the cam gear as possible. The bottom of the distributor housing wears during deceleration and the top while cruising.
if you seat the distributor and there's zero clearance so the distributor drive shaft has zero up & down clearance with the distributor clamped on the intake manifold, you need a distributor housing gasket or gasket and shim under the housing to intake clamping area this will prevent wear and excessive stress on the pump, you want .050 between the distributor drive shaft and the pump drive with the distributor seated and clamped.
shimming a distributor gear to get proper clearances
big2bird posted some of this , on a different thread but it needs to be here also, and I ADDED STUFF YOU NEED TO KNOW For those of you who have one, factory or otherwise, and you have noticed your timing jumps around instead of steady, here is your problem. As you accelerate/decelerate, the...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
Moroso 26150 Moroso Distributor Shim Kits | Summit Racing
Free Shipping - Moroso Distributor Shim Kits with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Distributor Replacement Parts at Summit Racing.
distributor shims go between the distributor gear and distributor housing around the main 1/2" diameter distributor main shaft
Moroso 26140 Moroso Distributor Shim Kits | Summit Racing
Free Shipping - Moroso Distributor Shim Kits with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Distributor Replacement Parts at Summit Racing.
maybe this will help
if your distributor won,t seat on the manifold and gasket the oil pump drive shaft may need to be shortened (thats the correct route)or theres distributor shim gaskets
http://www.summersbrothersracing.co...LF-CUT-DRIVE-FLANGE-BIG-BLOCK-CHEVY_p_30.html
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=123&p=326#p326
http://www.stockcarracing.com/techartic ... tallation/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-26150
GOT a distrib that seems to...
http://www.summersbrothersracing.co...LF-CUT-DRIVE-FLANGE-BIG-BLOCK-CHEVY_p_30.html
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=123&p=326#p326
http://www.stockcarracing.com/techartic ... tallation/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-26150
GOT a distrib that seems to...
CHEVROLET Moroso 26150 Moroso Distributor Shim Kits | Summit Racing
Free Shipping - Moroso Distributor Shim Kits with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Distributor Replacement Parts at Summit Racing.
to prevent binding on that drive shaft to the distributor gear.
Moroso 26140 Moroso Distributor Shim Kits | Summit Racing
Free Shipping - Moroso Distributor Shim Kits with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Distributor Replacement Parts at Summit Racing.
https://garage.grumpysperformance.c...istributor-to-the-oil-pump.18145/#post-118056
you also need to get the oil pump drive shaft length correct ,to get the clearance between the seated distributor and the distributor,
to cam drive gear clearance correct
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So I am kind of OK with a up and down travel if the shaft from the oil Pump of .08?
I am thinking of adding a .03 slim to the very end if the distributor shaft to put it at .05 travel.
And I want .010 gap between the distributor gear and its main body.
And I will be shimming up this gap of .060 with a .050 Moroso slim.
Is that correct?
And again many thanks for all the help.
Rich
I am thinking of adding a .03 slim to the very end if the distributor shaft to put it at .05 travel.
And I want .010 gap between the distributor gear and its main body.
And I will be shimming up this gap of .060 with a .050 Moroso slim.
Is that correct?
And again many thanks for all the help.
Rich
yes thats normal for a factory oil pump, now you may want to open up the oil pump to verify there's no grit or machine chips and
throw a small amount of moly grease on the gears to make the pump prime faster.
after carefully inspecting the oil pump gears are free of trash on a new oil pump, the use of a tiny bit of high temp silicone gasket sealer applied sparingly after both mating surfaces on the pump are degreased with something like
acetone then just sparingly applied will work on the pump base plate,
I generally just coat oil pump gears with a bit of moly grease maybe a tablespoon worth, spin the oil pump by hand for 60 seconds once its assembled to spread the grease internally this helps the pump to prime
yes there are mods that can be done to the oil pump, but most are not required.
yeah more DREADED LINKS AND SUB LINKS TO READ 
TO MAKE SURE WE DID NOT IGNORE ANY FACTORY YOU MIGHT NEED TO GO OVER
throw a small amount of moly grease on the gears to make the pump prime faster.
after carefully inspecting the oil pump gears are free of trash on a new oil pump, the use of a tiny bit of high temp silicone gasket sealer applied sparingly after both mating surfaces on the pump are degreased with something like
acetone then just sparingly applied will work on the pump base plate,
I generally just coat oil pump gears with a bit of moly grease maybe a tablespoon worth, spin the oil pump by hand for 60 seconds once its assembled to spread the grease internally this helps the pump to prime
yes there are mods that can be done to the oil pump, but most are not required.
- Pack the gears
Apply engine assembly lube to the oil pump gears to create a seal and lubricate the gears. This will make it easier to gain oil pressure when you start the engine. - Prime the oil pump
Use an oil pump priming tool attached to a drill to spin the oil pump for a couple of minutes until the gauge shows full oil pressure. This ensures that the oil galleys are full of oil and not air before starting the engine
TO MAKE SURE WE DID NOT IGNORE ANY FACTORY YOU MIGHT NEED TO GO OVER
Testing High Volume Vs Standard Chevy Oil Pumps
after reading all the posted info , you would more than likely avoid or skip the related links, so I posted them at the beginning so you at least realize, theres much more and useful info available https://www.cpperformance.com/products/Engine_Parts/valve-spring-oiler.htm btw if you don,t want...
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how your oil pumps pressure bye-pass circuit works,
theres seems to be a lot of mis-information about , how the oil pump regulates its pressure curve, and the related subject of shimming oil pump springs and how your oil pumps pressure bye-pass circuit works. PRESSURE, that you see displayed on the oil pressure gauge is a measure of the...
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Oil pump priming
I have attempted to prime and pre oil the system in my 355 build using the tool shown on Grumpy's stickys but am not sure if all is as it should be. The filter was filled pre installation and the balance of the 5 quarts of oil poured into the lifter valley. The tool in inserted and run with a...
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oil pump mods & related info
https://www.summitracing.com/search?SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=3%2F4%22%20tube%20oil%20pump%20pickups https://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchResultsPageCmd?q=big+block+chevy+oil+pumps&storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&langId=-1...
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oil system mods that help
heres a short list REMEMBER the object or goal in building and maintaining the lubrication system is too maintain a 100% dependable pressurized cooling flow of lubricant to the bearings, rockers ,valves etc. your most important tool, is your ability to think about how things are supposed to...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
installing an oil pump pick-up tube
there's two ways ,...... you can use the correct tool, which is ADVISABLE! use this oil pump(link below) in most stock SBC builds, as it produces a 10% increase in oil volume and standard pressure which is just fine , but obviously check your bearing clearances and oil pump to oil pan floor...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
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safety wire locking fasteners
Doing the Twist: Checking Fastener Tightness A loose nut or bolt can doom even the best effort on race day. Following these simple steps beforehand can help keep your car on the track From the February, 2009 issue of Stock Car Racing properly used lock wire assures the bolts stay where you left...
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I bought a oil pump primmer and planed on prelubing the engine as you pointed out.
I also have a oil accumulator tank which I might add to the van so it can do a prelube before starting, but I feel it is no longer needed as fuel injection systems spin the engine a couple of turns BEFORE firing, I think this is a kind of prelubing, I know it is done for the PCM to check all the sensor and get all engine timing checks, but a side effect is this two or more turns without any power load on the engines bearings.
Question, my old engine spun a number of bearings when she lost her oil.
I have seen some oil products claiming THEIR oil will save any engine under such lack of oil pressure...any truth or BS?
You may remember I am running a BBC oil pump at stock pressure valve.
Also I thought I had a great bearing clearance when by plastic gauge they all read, mains and rods .004, and how I was charged for a full rebuild on my short block when I had my machine shop fix this clearance. I was/am a bit upset over this over cost by them but on the other hand it was redone by pros.
Rich
I also have a oil accumulator tank which I might add to the van so it can do a prelube before starting, but I feel it is no longer needed as fuel injection systems spin the engine a couple of turns BEFORE firing, I think this is a kind of prelubing, I know it is done for the PCM to check all the sensor and get all engine timing checks, but a side effect is this two or more turns without any power load on the engines bearings.
Question, my old engine spun a number of bearings when she lost her oil.
I have seen some oil products claiming THEIR oil will save any engine under such lack of oil pressure...any truth or BS?
You may remember I am running a BBC oil pump at stock pressure valve.
Also I thought I had a great bearing clearance when by plastic gauge they all read, mains and rods .004, and how I was charged for a full rebuild on my short block when I had my machine shop fix this clearance. I was/am a bit upset over this over cost by them but on the other hand it was redone by pros.
Rich
some oil additive's can help reduce bearing damage, but by the time you start hearing issues and noise from the engine,
and look at the oil pressure gauge to link the noise to its cause..
chances of not having significant bearing wear is at best minimal.
but if you've lost oil pressure for even just several seconds under any significant loads at any significant rpms,
your bearings are likely TOAST!
and look at the oil pressure gauge to link the noise to its cause..
chances of not having significant bearing wear is at best minimal.
but if you've lost oil pressure for even just several seconds under any significant loads at any significant rpms,
your bearings are likely TOAST!
cleaning a block after a cam lobe, rod or bearings fail
NOW FOR THE NEWS THAT YOU REALLY DON,T WANT, TO THINK ABOUT! AND for yet another an unpleasant moment in your thought process, just ask yourself "where did all that material , metallic trash, etc. that wore off the cam lobes, lifters, cam gear go before MOST it ended up in the oil filter? What...
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metallic debris in filter
Did oil an change over the weekend, Drained and the oil and nothing looked out of the ordinary then I decided to cut open the oil filter and right away saw metal shavings, The engine has about 343 miles on since rebuild but it has had numerous oil & filter changes because of issues with fuel...
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valve train shrapnel screens
its fairly common practice for race engines to install a course mesh screen over the oil return holes in the block to limit the travel of fragmented valve train components, should something rather nasty occur and bits and pieces of fragmented valve train find their way into the lifter gallery...
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block prep.
you really should read these links for a lot more USEFUL info, on block pre prep use the best block you can afford, the better aftermarket blocks are faR STRONGER THAN THE oem BLOCKS IN ALMOST ALL CASES one of the least discussed & acknowledged, and yet more common reasons engines fail , is...
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oil system mods that help
heres a short list REMEMBER the object or goal in building and maintaining the lubrication system is too maintain a 100% dependable pressurized cooling flow of lubricant to the bearings, rockers ,valves etc. your most important tool, is your ability to think about how things are supposed to...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
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"OK GRUMPYVETTE< I have dumb question? What is a windage tray and whats it for?" windage trays don,t provide a huge boost in horse power, the purpose is mostly in providing much improved oil control, thus they can, if properly designed provide a much more consistent oil supply, and enhanced...
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magnets
heres an old post "Any source for the magnets Grumpy? what do you use? " http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.a ... SH&cat=167 magnets are ceramic and glass hard, don,t try to drill or grind them, as they can shatter or http://www.magnet4sale.com/samarium-cobalt-discs/ proper magnets trap...
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while your engines running theres several gallons of oil per minutes circulating thru your blocks oil pump and the blocks internal oil passages, if you have any crud suspended in that oil like particles of sealant or micro bits of bearing or cam lobe etc, its pumped, thru the oil system along...
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