installing a fuel cell

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
How many gallons is reasonable,? and how do you install a fuel cell/

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=211

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/15345/10002/-1

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cf ... top_cat=60

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=400025

http://www.atlinc.com/catalogmenu.html

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=211&p=247#p247

http://www.robbmcperformance.com/produc ... msend.html

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1939

http://www.hotrod.com/howto/70438_gas_t ... index.html

http://horsepowerperformance.com/c-7774 ... l-die.html
VERY INTERESTING ADDITION TO THE POTENTIAL FUEL SYSTEM DESIGN
http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ ... rvoir.aspx
since its used on the street ID suggest no less than 20 gallons
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

sum-293220_w.jpg


and more than 30 seems excessive, in a fuel cell, but just because youve got the capacity DOESN,T MEAN ITS GOT TO BE FULLY FILLED EACH TIME!
for a drag race only car 5-8 gallons capacity seems fine, and youll rarely fill it to the full capacity
, DON,T FORGET TO BUILD A CAGE AROUND IT THAT HELPS PREVENT DAMAGE IN A CRASH

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

reading

http://www.ehow.com/how_2038627_install ... e-car.html

http://www.stockcarracing.com/techartic ... index.html

scrp_0602_02z+installing_a_fuel_cell+.jpg


http://www.off-roadweb.com/tech/0310or_ ... index.html

http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/chassis ... nstall.htm

http://www.circletrack.com/howto/58778_ ... index.html
 
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the work above is IMPRESSIVE, I know because IVE welded on several sumps , on O.E.M. gas tanks,and even custom fabricated a few gas tanks from aluminum sheet stock and diamond plate, but the main point is you can frequently buy a complete fuel cell for a reasonable cost. thats set up correcly for far less total cash, time,effort, and the resulting fuel system generally works better once your done with an aftermarket fuel cell installed.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM-293220&N=700+115&autoview=sku

sum-293220_w.jpg
 
READ THRU THESE LINKS
http://www.robbmcperformance.com/produc ... msend.html

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1030&p=1912&hilit=fittings#p1912

http://www.boydwelding.com/?gclid=CIuGs ... 7Aod-BAANg

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=635

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ks-and-welding-on-fuel-tanks.6178/#post-61230

one of the more common mistakes I see is guys running new fuel lines that are marginal or really too small, or running the correct fuel lines but using fittings that are too small internally, for the application, or in some cases connecting the right size fuel lines to the original fuel tank connection fittings, in some cases those were as small as 5/16" and like a chain, its the weak link! your fuel system will flow are the rate of the most restrictive component, having a great fuel pump makes little difference if the fittings or fuel filter or the lines won,t allow the pump to flow to its full potential, I see guys run 1/2" or AN#8 lines and connect them with adapters to a 3/8" or AN#6 connector on fuel pumps, or fuel pressure regulators and OEM fuel tank connections frequently, that's a sure way to restrict flow.
ALL COMPONENTS must have the correct matching internal passages or your restricting the flow rates, I tend to suggest all AN#8 fittings from tank, to carb, or to the injection fuel rails, on any car that will have over 550 hp,and lines back to the tank, or thru fuel filters or pressure regulators in some cases that will require some planning, maybe twin fuel pressure regulators or twin filters , but do the research and do it correctly.
don,t think the return line size is not important, having a an#8 fuel feed line to the carb or fuel rails but trying to re-use the stock 5/16" or 3/8" fuel line as a return line MAY NOT WORK CORRECTLY
if your thinking about just sending the car out to a local shop to have the fuel cell installed....
ID bet serious money you could buy , or at least place a large deposit on a small miller MIG welder for the cost of the install labor cost if its done correctly, so ID suggest doing it yourself, done correctly its protected with a roll cage guard frame to prevent or at least limit damage in a crash, and to support the weight of the tank and fuel and protect the fuel pump and locate the fuel filters etc.
Before you drop off the car get a detailed list of costs and the work to be done, theres a world of difference between just fabricating a couple brackets and bolting a small 5-10 gallon fuel cell into a cars trunk and setting up the fuel system correctly so its safe in a roll over or rear end impact

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1939

http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=907335
 
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Your right 20 gal. or more on a street car!

I have a 16 gal. right now and will be going bigger

I did install #8an and 1/2 line the hole way! :mrgreen:
 
I'm going with an after market Fuel Injection system on my 1987 C4. Supply and return lines have to be much larger than stock size and be AN#8 into the tank, preferably in a low mount sump, I inteend to have nearly 600 hp,
I guess I'll buy a new tank cut and modify it with a new sump, and fittings and find a decent frame mounted electric fuel pump that supplies 45 psi, for injection?and TIG weld the new sump, on it back together. Ive Found somebody local that would FAB an aluminum custom one for $1,200...that's insanely expensive in my opinion


a stock tank may not be your best option, and yes you have options think it through carefully.
do your research and parts selection carefully, ask questions and verify answers, don,t guess!
the problem with all decent quality fuel line supply component parts is they cost more money, than the cheap low quality parts and generally take up more room and take a bit more time and thought to install correctly, but you tend to get what you pay for in car part quality, and carefully matched parts will significantly increase flow volume, and stabilize the pressure.
you NEED a high quality ,return line style, fuel pressure regulator
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-12-841/overview/
HLY-12-841_xla.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Moeller-Separatin ... d_sbs_sg_1
fuelq3.jpg

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-1792/overview/ FOR CARB ENGINES
EDL-1792_xl.jpg

FuelFlowDiagram02a1.jpg

lineroutefpj.png

rus-630300_xl.jpg


http://www.highflowfuel.com/i-10388...rainers.html?gclid=COabwduFgs0CFZKGaQodbGQCOw

F143879857.jpg

450 LPH EFI FUEL PUMP

http://www.zip-corvette.com/84-96-c4/fuel-system/84-96-gas-tank.html
fcd2.jpg


the in-tank fuel pump(s) you select and install, in a c4 corvette can supply all the fuel you'll require up to easily 550 hp plus and modifying the fuel line size/diameter at the time you install a larger fuel pump and fuel lines in your car does not necessarily require a totally new fuel tank, until your probably over 600 hp and in the tank fuel pumps are quieter and run cooler due to fuel slosh absorbing heat from the pump.
yes the addition of a custom made fuel cell and larger fuel pump certainly has some advantages but they are not financial in nature.


reading the links and sub links won,t hurt either

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ubing-fuel-lines-and-flaring.1030/#post-35905

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/replacing-a-c-4-fuel-pump.33/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/my-current-corvettes-383-combo.430/
RELATED THREADS YOU MAY WANT TOO READ
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/how-big-a-fuel-pump-do-you-need.1939/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/installing-a-fuel-cell.733/#post-6470

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/setting-up-your-fuel-system.211/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/calculate-fuel-injector-size.1200/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/return-line-too-small.10665/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/input-on-electric-fuel-pump-selection.10664/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/tubing-fuel-lines-and-flaring.1030/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...bit-of-intank-fuel-pump-info.7848/#post-27077

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ks-and-welding-on-fuel-tanks.6178/#post-19310

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/replacing-a-c-4-fuel-pump.33/

While I'm not an expert at tig welding Ive owned and used a TIG welder for decades in my shop, And I know welding on thin galvanized fuel tanks is a HUGE P.I.T.A. and if you ever had fuel or rust in a tank or a plastic liners or epoxy internal coating,.youll have a very hard time welding a leak free thin sheet steel tank especially if its galvanized steel.
going through that much modification work on a crappy quality stock fuel tank would be borderline insane for accomplishing your intended goal,if your goal is to build a serious race car, but for street/strip performance you might not need or want to spend the money and time if an upgrade in a fuel pump and lines accomplishes your intended goals here! it would make a good deal more financial sense, in the longer term, too remove the existing fuel tank,and then very carefully and accurately measure the area the tank mounts inside the car , if your going to race the car seriously, and remember you might want a smaller capacity too save weight if your drag racing or a larger capacity for road racing, and, once you determine your size limitations, find and purchase an appropriately sized and designed FUEL CELL with the AN#8 fuel line connections you desire in the capacity you want, you can get a much better quality aluminum fuel cell or have one custom made up to your exact specs, and this can include line connection locations capacity, materials mount brackets, internal baffles slosh foam, ETC. while it won.t be dirt cheap a custom tank, made by a local fabricator can be found for under $500 in most areas, if you draw a detailed diagram for hime to use as a guide to make it, I would suggest no smaller than AN#8 or 1/2" ID fuel lines and a matching fuel filter and fuel pump capacity and personally ID prefer the top side fuel line connections as theres less chance of fuel leaks
fcd1.jpg

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rci-2100ad

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rci-2172a/overview/

http://fuelsafe.com/store/

http://fuelsafe.com/store/fuel-cells/complete-cells/complete-sportsman-fuel-cells.html

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rci-2191a/overview/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rci-2200ab/overview/

your basic fuel cell installation pictures showing that some thought, planing and measurement plus some basic welding skill make it possible for most of us to do a nice clean installation that you can be proud of.

"PISTON"
POSTED THESE PICTURES OF HIS INSTALL


SDC11649.jpg

SDC11656.jpg

SDC11668.jpg

SDC11669.jpg


http://www.boydwelding.com/?gclid=CIuGs ... 7Aod-BAANg

http://www.atlinc.com/racing.html

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ks-and-welding-on-fuel-tanks.6178/#post-61230

Fuel-Pump-Flow-Requirements.jpg

line4.jpg


http://fuelab.com/understanding-fuel-line-fittings-straight-thread-and-an-vs-tapered-thread/

https://www.asap-supplies.com/us/fittings-valves-strainers/fittings/hose-tail-fittings

Use these ratings to decide your return line sizing based upon fuel pump output:

*
Up to 45 GPH = 5/16" or -04 AN
*
Up to 90 GPH = 3/8" or -06 AN
*
Up to 250 GPH = 1/2" or -08 AN
*
Up to 450 GPH = 5/8" or -10 AN
*
Up to 900 GPH = 3/4"or -12 AN

Use these figures as a fuel line sizing standard: if your feeding a carburetor with the typical 8-10 psi fuel pump feeding to the fuel pressure regulator

* Up to 250 HP = 5/16" or -04 AN
* Up to 500 HP = 3/8" or -06 AN
* Up to 700 HP = 1/2" or -08 AN
* Up to 1000 HP = 5/8" or -10 AN
* Up to 1500 HP = 3/4" or -12 AN

don,t skip READING THROUGH the links,
and sub-links theres a ton of related useful info in those


https://www.amazon.com/10AN-AN10-Stainless-Steel-Braided/dp/B01MT5C6HO/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1528719700&sr=8-15&keywords=5/8+fuel+hose

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-up-your-fuel-system.211/page-2#post-39677

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ubing-fuel-lines-and-flaring.1030/#post-35905

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/installing-a-fuel-cell.733/#post-6470

https://www.discounthydraulichose.c...MI8JPO183L2wIV0oV-Ch2E-w80EAQYAyABEgKUU_D_BwE

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...c-fuel-pump-selection.10664/page-2#post-46237

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-sizing-return-vs-feed.3067/page-2#post-44823

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/fuel-line-problem.9305/#post-33631
 
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Grumpy, as your aware I have a raised 4x4 dually ford ,
I wanted to have a roll bar heavy duty brush guard bumper and a 35 gallon custom made aluminum fuel tank installed in the rear bed,
I've got several quotes and between the roll bar, with the brackets for lighting and the bumper guard,
and the custom fuel tank I,m getting quotes exceeding $2K by a wide margin at some places,


without knowing exactly what you have in mind I sure can,t begin to tell if the price is exorbitant or semi-reasonable
I can tell you that in many cases you might consider it a good time to learn how to weld,
and buy a decent welder and fabricate exactly what you want,
careful measurements and a bit of fabrication skill, theres also satisfaction in learning new skills and doing the work your self.
doing so, can go a long way toward reducing total cost or at least,
allowing you to buy quality tools at prices that partially offset the total cash outlay
in most cases over 50% of the cost is in labor alone,
on big projects its well worth learning how to do the labor yourself,
if your inclined to learn and acquire tools,in my opinion,
if your going to spend close to $3k, finishing up with the work done correctly,
and owning a new welder and learning new skills,
is a better route than forking over the cash,
and not owning a welder and learning new skills.
https://www.eastwood.com/tig200acdc.html

you might want to keep shopping for bargains,
but the option to buy a decent MIG or TIG welder, learn how to use it, is there!
some shops sell u-weld-it kits that can save you a great deal of time, effort and cash

fuel tanks, in some cars and trucks can be cleaned and used in various applications, but that almost mandate removal and cleaning before use, that can be surprisingly heavy, especially if some fuel is still in the tank,
so a trans jack with a 2ft x 2ft square piece of 3/4" plywood under the tank ,
for support during the removal or install might be a good idea in some cases


https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Fuel-Tank-Cleaner-and-Prep-SF-77-1-Quart,73849.html?sku=91012577&msclkid=46a8a6f650641ccce1fdc6c304336e18&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=SMI - Shopping (CSE) (Bing)&utm_term=4577404348890847&utm_content=All Products (Feb28_2020)

I've generally dropped a gallon of diesel fuel ,and a quart of fuel tank cleaner,
like this linked above and dropped in about 20 feet of
chain into the fuel tank
https://www.westechrigging.com/chain-516-g30-zp.html?msclkid=58815f73d64d1705cf9f3f46832d7c51
then sloshed the contents around a good deal agitating the mix for 20-30 minutes then flush with a detergent like SIMPLE GREEN
and a couple gallon's of water then dry with high pressure air and a nozzle , then carefully inspect with a bright flash light.

followed by a water removal process that starts with
nozzle.gif

lots of high pressure air jets blasting the moisture out of anyplace it might collect in,
followed by the use of a heat gun
obviously you use a good quality fuel filter after that cleaning
the chains easy to remove with a strong magnet tied on a bit of para cord

related info

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/floor-jacks.969/#post-70422

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/under-car-safety.26/
63397_I.jpg

https://www.harborfreight.com/1500-lb-aluminum-atv-motorcycle-lift-63397.html
 
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