just want some reassurance on combo choices

Maniacmechanic1 said:
Yes go ahead and call.

Find any other cams your interested in let me know.
We will check out.

Been busy.
Crazy past week for if your follow my own thread.
Click to expand...
I found a picture of the cam card, but it of course had no valve timing events marked in, it was just blanks. I have been swamped at work and on call a lot, so I feel you on the time issues
 
Update, I have been away from the shop. Wife, baby on the way etc. Fired up the motor on the stand today, first with a carb. Ran great, 10" vacuum at 800 rpm. Ended up with going with the straub hyd roller. 108lsa. Great lope, sounds mean, super responsive. Only problem is is too much oil pressure with the 10552 pump. 100psi at 3500rpm when cold. 10/40 driven break in oil. I'm going to drop the pan and inspect pump and confirm bypass is working etc. It's on my test stand so no big deal. I might step down in viscosity to see what happens. My plans were to run this with an Edelbrock proflo 3. Well I was bored and went ahead with the setup on the stand. I was going to wait until I stuck it in the car but I was curious. Wired everything, bolted it up, used Edelbrock fuel sump/pump command center. I tell you what. I like it. Quiet pump, super responsive, easy setup, good cold start. Vacuum went up to 11mmhgat 800. It still hits a mean lick which I was surprised didn't change from the 950hp. Now I just need to figure the oil issue out. I did do the dart block mod. It involves putting a restrictor in the last lifter galley. I used morel lifters that have had some noise issues lately. They are super quiet. I need to check pressure in a few different spots and with another gauge. No complaints with the straub 108lsa cam. It runs it like a champ. Now for the oil issue....I did verify that there were no spacers. I hope I didn't install spring backwards, but nonetheless pan has to come off while it's on test stand. Just wanted to give you guys an update.
 
You can change the Pump relief spring to get lower pump pressure.
100 psi + oil pressure is what I desire.
Does not hurt anything. If You turn high rpms you want at least 80 psi Hot.

Try switching to a premium 10w30 Oil and see what you get.
 
thank you its very much appreciated, a big congrats on getting it running!
and yes it sure sounds like the oil pump bye-pass is non-functional
it would be nice if you could post the cam specs
, and for that mater all the parts you used in the engine build-up,
a easy to read list.
and you don,t want more than 30 psi at idle or more than 70 psi at peak rpm,
the excessively high oil pressure is only added stress loads to the cam and distributor gear contact area ,
and serves zero purpose in lubricating the engine,
so Id suggest a good synthetic 10w 30 oil and swapping to a larger,
and probably different brand of oil filter,
if the two changes suggested don,t drop the oil pressure
,you have some issue with the pump or excessively tight bearing clearances(thats unlikely)

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/which-oil-what-viscosity.1334/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/testing-a-chevy-oil-pump.6479/

you should NEVER shim an oil pumps pressure relief spring as it may prevent the piston it holds from moving down its bore far enough to allow it to open the bay-pass passage, that allows the pressure on the high pressure side of the oil pump from bleeding off back into the intakes side of the oil pump
oilspring.jpg

Melling_Spring_Specs.jpg

Many pressure relief springs have one end larger than the other end,the spring always mounts with the larger end facing away from the bypass piston, if installed reversed the piston can,t move far enough to completely open the bypass circuit passage and pressures skyrocket, under some conditions
http://www.summitracing.com/search?keyword=5556F&dds=1
(chevy small block oil pump bye-pass springs)
 
Last edited:
Block-400 dart shp block. 4.125 STD bore, honed to .003" piston to wall clearance. Line honed, decked .005, oil feed restrictor in last right lifter bore. Scott Foxwell modification. No extra clearancing required. 350 main journal
Heads- profiler 210, 70cc combustion chamber. Gasket matched to felpro 1205. Minor bowl blending and spark plugs and threads smoothed in combustion chamber. 150lb on seat, AFR adjustable guideplates, rocker geometry was all over the place with the guideplates and studs I bought them with.
176-2170P-04-93 part number
134-3603 ARP head bolts with stainless outer bolts, step torqued. I liked the dart head bolt holes. No issues with water leaks, the bolts don't go into water passages.
Felpro 1003 gaskets. Quench height a tad over .043"
Harland sharp 1.6 rockers, arp 7/16 studs. I didn't care for the supplied guide plates or the 3/8 studs. Rocker geometry sucked. Each morel 5372 lifters received 1 turn of preload due to noise complaints. Lifter bore clearance was .015-.016. I lightly honed a few of the lifter bores. Took awhile to get oil out of all the rockers when priming, but it finally got there. Trick flow 7.1" pushrods I believe, don't quote me on the length. I started out with 7.20" and swipe pattern wasn't what I liked.
Intake is Edelbrock proflo 3, 4150 flange. Initially I unbolted the throttle body and ran with an AED 950hp, ran great with that and a hei distributor I had. Pulled carb and distributor out and put in the supplied small cap Edelbrock distributor. Inital timing to 12 degree btdc. Wired everything to the stand. Excellent grounding was a priority. Not that bad of an install. I did change the 29lb injectors to 35lb pico style injectors from Edelbrock. The included tuner can do 29lb or 35lb depending on the tune you choose. I had around 10mmhg vacuum with the AED setup. 11mmhg or so at 800rpm after firing up with the proflo 3. Doing the setup and Bluetooth connection to tablet was easy. Fuel pump is Carter 7psi 140gph, it runs to a edeEdelbr fuel command pump that has a reservoir and kicks it up to 58 psi for the injectors.
Plugs are autolite 3923 with FireWire spark plug wires. Coil is a msd blaster canister coil, nothing fancy. You can run a cdi box with this setup. I'm not. I did have to put a wire with a diode from starter wire into 12v hot, as it want to go to around 10v when cranking from the other supplied 12v switched wire. Pistons are wiesco forged slugs, 2 valve relief, -5cc relief. Smoothed edges, 1/16 mahle plasma moly ring pack. Top gap .022" 2nd gap .023, STD tension oil ring. Oil rings are super tight going in, I called mahle and they said it was normal. Once I popped them in they were good. .003 skirt clearances. I lightly oiled rings pistons with MMO. Pistons did require oil ring spacer, pin clearances were good, .010" higher compression height ordered, no reason to deck block excessively, spirolocks hold them on to a scat 6" pro competition style rod with ARP 7/16/ bolts. All ends were weight matched. Pistons were weight matched.
Crank is scat 4340. 350 main journal. I ordered the block with 350 mains for less heat/stress on bearings and I can later use a 350 crank if I want.
Balanced to 1gm, internal front and rear. Pioneer 872023 neutral 8" balancer, aluminum cover with comp cam button and lock. Cloyes
9-3500TX9,
I would have used retainer plate, but forgot to order step-nose camshaft...my fault
Clevite H bearings, clearances were spot on, I did lightly sand thrust and bevel for extra oiling like Rick did.
Oil pump is melling 10552. 10% increase volume. Used their supplied oil pump driveshaft. Clearances were good. I need to address too much pressure.... pressure relief issues or spring issues. It didn't have any spacers, I'm questioning whether I may have installed the spring backwards. It's possible. Melling pickup which was a bolt on gasket style 3/4 inlet. Using a moroso pan with a 8.25" sump, scraper and baffled with built in windage tray. No clearance issues with splayed caps. Milodon one piece gasket with thick front and 80-85 passenger dipstick. A few dabs of grey rtv in corners. Milodon gasket had nice anticrush washers and fit really well. I like it so far. Hays billet neutral flywheel. 4-speed car. Installed an oilrite non-magnetic pilot bushing before I put crankshaft in. Just used my press.
Camshaft is a Straub hyd roller. Duration @.050 233/240, duration @ .004 292/299, lobe lift with 1.5" rockers .547/.516, I used 1.6 intake and exhaust. Centerline intake/exhaust 104/112, LSA 108. Timing events at .050" verified with degree wheel and solid lifter were Intake: open 12.5°, close at 40.5°, exhaust open @ 52°, close at 8°. 20.5° overlap. Great sound. Lopes really nicely even with the EFI. Excellent throttle response. It has 3° advance ground in it. I installed it straight up after verifying events.
I used a cvf sepentine kit with lwp. 150amp Alt, new power steering pump. All black powder coated. I will have to clearance the alt. Bracket. You can't get the lower radiator hose on easily, I can't imagine trying to do it in the car or on the side of the road. Too tight. Aluminum front cover, nothing special, moroso pointer for 8" balancer. ARP balancer bolt.
I'm trying the summit brand motor mounts. They seem fine, black poly mount.
Runs well, timing is at 35°, AFR are still being messed with. No signs of detonation with 93 octane. Dynamic compression calculation was really high, not sure. Don't remember the value. Runs around 195°. Has to be over 170° for EFI self learning. 192° thermostat. Using electric fan on the stand.
Block got high temp magnets in the lifter valley and pan, and I coated valley with glyptal paint I had left over. I'm sure I'm leaving something out. I followed a lot of Rick's build. Super helpful info. Thanks to all of you for your input. Super helpful wealth of information here.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20190224_133642.jpg
    IMG_20190224_133642.jpg
    185.1 KB · Views: 1
You need to remove the oil pump bypass spring and check the paint stripe color.
Somewhere on Ricks thread is a color code chart from Melling for bypass relief valve spring pressure.
 
I never had any issues running high pressure oil pumps on a Pontiac V8.
It was done factory 2 engines 80psi.
RAV5 400 & SD455.
Run tight clearences. Solid cam with special oil restrictors layout Pontiac V8 only.
150 psi cold.
7000 rpm 120 psi hot .
10w30 oil.

Used a Melling M55A Z28 pump in my old Suburban.
80 psi hot.
Cold 100 psi.
10w30.
No issues.
 
Christopher Williams said:
I like them but the cash aspect is hard to stomach
Click to expand...
Same Here. So much money Dry Sump Drag Race Layout or Road Race Dirt Super Late model looks good.

Titan Billet Oil pumps is another past popular name. Mainly Pontiac Owners like me with lots of money.
Last I knew it was $700 bucks.
Adjustable pressure output like a Moroso Billet Chevy Oil pump with set screw also.
 
Indycars said:
Another member (Bytor) had high oil pressure with the Melling 10552 pump. It worked out
perfect for me, but I did several oil system mods that bleed off some of the pressure. I'm using
10w30 Royal Purple HPS and have hot idle pressure at 25 psi (900 rpm) and maxes out at 60 psi.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/high-oil-pressure.8735/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-1st-street-383-build.6962/page-10#post-37064
Click to expand...
I did some mods, I drilled a .040 hole for timing gear, bevel on the rear main like you. I didn't modify the distributor any, I guess I could put a little groove in it. I did however restrict the oil in that back galley right before #8 lifter. I'm not opposed to taking the pan off to check the spring and verify that I didn't put it in backwards. If I remember correctly I have an 80psi relief spring in, so my thoughts were that I shouldn't theoretically make more than 80psi. Unless the relief can't handle the volume being pumped. I still need to check it in a couple of spots. Currently it's in the standard location behind the intake. I need to look back at the oil flow schematics for that dart block. I don't mind some good oil pressure, but I think there is a point to where all you are doing is putting too much stress on distributor gear and pump, possibly causing leaks somewhere, etc. I'm sure if the relief is working or open it's probably aerating the heck out of the oil and I'm probably creating unnecessary heat and ruining the oil wedge characteristics in the rod and main bearings. I may try a lighter oil and another gauge in another location or 2 before the pain comes off. Any ideas or thoughts are appreciated
 
Christopher Williams said:
I did some mods, I drilled a .040 hole for timing gear, bevel on the rear main like you. I didn't modify the distributor any, I guess I could put a little groove in it. I did however restrict the oil in that back galley right before #8 lifter. I'm not opposed to taking the pan off to check the spring and verify that I didn't put it in backwards. If I remember correctly I have an 80psi relief spring in, so my thoughts were that I shouldn't theoretically make more than 80psi. Unless the relief can't handle the volume being pumped. I still need to check it in a couple of spots. Currently it's in the standard location behind the intake. I need to look back at the oil flow schematics for that dart block. I don't mind some good oil pressure, but I think there is a point to where all you are doing is putting too much stress on distributor gear and pump, possibly causing leaks somewhere, etc. I'm sure if the relief is working or open it's probably aerating the heck out of the oil and I'm probably creating unnecessary heat and ruining the oil wedge characteristics in the rod and main bearings. I may try a lighter oil and another gauge in another location or 2 before the pain comes off. Any ideas or thoughts are appreciated
Click to expand...
It's up to You.
Splitting hairs I think.
Top Fuel Cars have over 200 psi oil pressure. The Ruining oil wedge is debunked with what is called high oil pressure.

There used to be A Pontiac builder Bruce Fupler. He claimed all you needed was 40 psi and what he said he used.
He turned 8000-9000 Rpm in his GTO drag cars.
Maybe. No longer doing much today.
Too risky to me.
If has Over 80 psi oil pressure I am ecstatic Happy !
 
You Could use a Big Block Chevy Oil Pump on your Dart SHP 400.
Be the 1st guy here to do it in my memory.
Grumpy says he has done it many times no issues.
I have not heard many complaints at all with Melling or Moroso Blueprint Big Chevy Cast Iron oil pumps.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top