roller rockers
- Thread starter jteu2002
- Start date
Ive only had a few people comment on them, so far as they are rather new, but from what IVE seen and heard they are well designed and built. lets put it this way, they would be one of my first three choices on my next few personal engines.
cranes gold roller rockers are decent quality rockers for a small or big block chevy,Ive used those, ERSON, CROWER and COMP CAMS ROLLER ROCKERS, many of them come with jam nuts that require a 3/16" allen key
and look a great deal like these posted here below
but these are NOT locking jam nuts designed to work with a rocker stud girdle
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-3 ... /overview/
BTW.IF YOUR BUILDING A SBC
http://brodix.com/heads-2/small-block-chevrolet-compatible-heads/ik-series
http://www.jegs.com/i/Brodix/158/1021001/10002/-1
brodix ph# 1-479-394-1075 (ALWAYS VERIFY PART NUMBERS SEVERAL,
TIMES FROM AT LEAST TWO SOURCES, BEFORE ORDERING PARTS)
the brodix rock stud girdle is part # BR-6435 and LIST price is about $230 you can get it for less if you shop carefully
BE AWARE that the I.K. 200 heads were shipped with BOTH 3/8" and 7/16" rocker studs ,
and the poly locks for the 7/16" rocker studs ONLY fit that rocker stud girdle
obviously you need to verify what your heads have before you order the matching rocker stud girdle
Verifying your engines clearances, and rocker geometry, and use of A rocker stud girdle and high quality roller rockers go a long way towards maintaining valve train durability
rocker stud girdles require significantly longer shank jam nuts , but you need to mount the rocker stud girdle up out of the way so the upper surface of the rockers can,t touch the lower surface of the stud girdle at full lift
heres the older design
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-1601-16/
https://www.crower.com/clearance.html?cat=1541
you might want to buy a few of these while they are on sale at a reduced price
heres a bit of useful related push rod length info (POSTED HERE) youll want to select the correct set or SETS for your shop
Big Block Chevy, Standard Length Big Block Intake 3/8" / .080" 8.275"
295-7941-8 Big Block Chevy, Standard Length Big Block Exhaust 3/8" / .080" 9.250"
295-7969-8 Big Block Chevy, Standard Big Block +.100" Long Intake 3/8" / .080" 8.375"
295-7979-8 Big Block Chevy, Standard Big Block +.100" Long Exhaust 3/8" / .080" 9.350"
295-7951-8 Big Block Chevy, Standard Length Big Block Tall Deck Intake 3/8" / .080" 8.675"
295-7961-8 Big Block Chevy, Standard Length Big Block Tall Deck Exhaust 3/8" / .080" 9.650"
295-7800 V8 396-454 Retro Fit Pushrod Set, Intake & Exhaust, 1965-Present
3/8" / .080"
3/8" / .080" 7.725 Int.
8.675 Exh
295-7913-16 Small Block Chevy, Standard Length Small Block Chevy 3/8" / .080" 7.800"
295-7984-16 Small Block Chevy, +.100" Long 3/8" / .080" 7.900"
295-7934-16 Big Block Ford, Standard Length Ford `72-'78 429-460 3/8" / .080" 8.550"
295-7951-16 Big Block Ford, Standard Length Ford `69-'71 429-460 3/8" / .080" 8.675"
295-7582-16 Oldsmobile, Std Length 455 5/16" 9.550"
cranes gold roller rockers are decent quality rockers for a small or big block chevy,Ive used those, ERSON, CROWER and COMP CAMS ROLLER ROCKERS, many of them come with jam nuts that require a 3/16" allen key
and look a great deal like these posted here below
but these are NOT locking jam nuts designed to work with a rocker stud girdle
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-3 ... /overview/
BTW.IF YOUR BUILDING A SBC
http://brodix.com/heads-2/small-block-chevrolet-compatible-heads/ik-series
http://www.jegs.com/i/Brodix/158/1021001/10002/-1
brodix ph# 1-479-394-1075 (ALWAYS VERIFY PART NUMBERS SEVERAL,
TIMES FROM AT LEAST TWO SOURCES, BEFORE ORDERING PARTS)
the brodix rock stud girdle is part # BR-6435 and LIST price is about $230 you can get it for less if you shop carefully
BE AWARE that the I.K. 200 heads were shipped with BOTH 3/8" and 7/16" rocker studs ,
and the poly locks for the 7/16" rocker studs ONLY fit that rocker stud girdle
obviously you need to verify what your heads have before you order the matching rocker stud girdle
Verifying your engines clearances, and rocker geometry, and use of A rocker stud girdle and high quality roller rockers go a long way towards maintaining valve train durability
rocker stud girdles require significantly longer shank jam nuts , but you need to mount the rocker stud girdle up out of the way so the upper surface of the rockers can,t touch the lower surface of the stud girdle at full lift
heres the older design
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-1601-16/
https://www.crower.com/clearance.html?cat=1541
you might want to buy a few of these while they are on sale at a reduced price
heres a bit of useful related push rod length info (POSTED HERE) youll want to select the correct set or SETS for your shop
Big Block Chevy, Standard Length Big Block Intake 3/8" / .080" 8.275"
295-7941-8 Big Block Chevy, Standard Length Big Block Exhaust 3/8" / .080" 9.250"
295-7969-8 Big Block Chevy, Standard Big Block +.100" Long Intake 3/8" / .080" 8.375"
295-7979-8 Big Block Chevy, Standard Big Block +.100" Long Exhaust 3/8" / .080" 9.350"
295-7951-8 Big Block Chevy, Standard Length Big Block Tall Deck Intake 3/8" / .080" 8.675"
295-7961-8 Big Block Chevy, Standard Length Big Block Tall Deck Exhaust 3/8" / .080" 9.650"
295-7800 V8 396-454 Retro Fit Pushrod Set, Intake & Exhaust, 1965-Present
3/8" / .080"
3/8" / .080" 7.725 Int.
8.675 Exh
295-7913-16 Small Block Chevy, Standard Length Small Block Chevy 3/8" / .080" 7.800"
295-7984-16 Small Block Chevy, +.100" Long 3/8" / .080" 7.900"
295-7934-16 Big Block Ford, Standard Length Ford `72-'78 429-460 3/8" / .080" 8.550"
295-7951-16 Big Block Ford, Standard Length Ford `69-'71 429-460 3/8" / .080" 8.675"
295-7582-16 Oldsmobile, Std Length 455 5/16" 9.550"
-
Reduced
Part Number: 70463-2
Checking Pushrods
Checking Pushrods 7.975 +-.250 (Pair)
Learn More
Regular Price: $28.13
Your Price: $13.99
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Part Number: 70461-2
Checking Pushrods
Checking Pushrods 7.150 +-.250 (Pair)
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Regular Price: $28.13
Your Price: $13.99
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Part Number: 70465T
Checking Pushrods
Checking Pushrod Kit (1) 8.150 +-.250 (1) 9.150 +-.250
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Regular Price: $28.13
Your Price: $13.99
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Reduced
http://www.summitracing.com/search/...d-length-checkers?autoview=SKU&ibanner=SREPD5
Proform Pushrod Length Checkers 66789 SBC 3/8" rocker studs
Proform Pushrod Length Checkers 66790 SBC 7/16" rocker studs
Proform Pushrod Length Checkers 66806 BBC 7/16" rocker studs
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Ive used the previous or older design comp cams steel rockers on lots of engines with good results, that the newer design has recently replaced
but Ive also used these two rockers
ERSON extreme duty
http://www.pbm-erson.com/store.php?catId=24
which Ive used for dozens of engines over many years with ZERO FAILURES so far, just be aware that the extreme duty rockers are ,a more robust design that the standard ERSON rockers which I don,t recommend
and the CROWER stainless ROCKERS
http://www.jegs.com/i/Crower/258/73670-16/10002/-1
theres ARE big differences in the quality of the metal and hardness, look closely at the PROCOMP Chinese rockers above, notice the tip of the rockers axle, its obviously been flared,like a rivet indicating a fairly soft metal, rather than forced into place with an interference fit like the comp cams rockers they try to duplicate
BTW if your thinking about getting roller tip rockers , DON,T!!
Because, easily 90% PLUS of the friction in the valve train is NOT on the contact between rocker arm tip and the valve stem, so swapping to a roller tip on a rocker provides negligible benefits in friction reduction.
you can buy decent quality full roller rockers, for well under $250-$300
and roller tip rockers commonly cost 1/2 or more of that making the full rollers a much better option
but Ive also used these two rockers
ERSON extreme duty
which Ive used for dozens of engines over many years with ZERO FAILURES so far, just be aware that the extreme duty rockers are ,a more robust design that the standard ERSON rockers which I don,t recommend
and the CROWER stainless ROCKERS
http://www.jegs.com/i/Crower/258/73670-16/10002/-1
theres ARE big differences in the quality of the metal and hardness, look closely at the PROCOMP Chinese rockers above, notice the tip of the rockers axle, its obviously been flared,like a rivet indicating a fairly soft metal, rather than forced into place with an interference fit like the comp cams rockers they try to duplicate
BTW if your thinking about getting roller tip rockers , DON,T!!
Because, easily 90% PLUS of the friction in the valve train is NOT on the contact between rocker arm tip and the valve stem, so swapping to a roller tip on a rocker provides negligible benefits in friction reduction.
you can buy decent quality full roller rockers, for well under $250-$300
and roller tip rockers commonly cost 1/2 or more of that making the full rollers a much better option
Last edited by a moderator:
don,t confuse PRO-COMP (Chinese knock offs of inferior quality) above sold on EBAY
and ULTRA PRO, and pro magnum rockers steel roller rocker lines from COMP CAMS shown below
the chinese knock-off are obviously named to confuse people and steal a bit of comps market, by doing so!
http://www.compcams.com/information/Pro ... Magnum.asp
which are a KNOWN and durable rockers below
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-1101-16/?rtype=10
the ultra pros from comp cams are so new theres very little long term durability info yet
BTW if your thinking about getting those stamped steel, roller tip rockers , DON,T!!, they have a tendency to fail, and they don,t handle high spring pressures well, and they don,t reduce friction much so they are basically a (FEEL AND LOOK GOOD" part that doesn,t do much constructively[/color]
Because, easily 90% PLUS of the friction in the valve train is NOT on the contact between rocker arm tip and the valve stem, so swapping to a roller tip on a rocker provides negligible benefits in friction reduction.
you can buy decent quality full roller rockers, for well under $250-$300
and roller tip rockers commonly cost 1/2 or more of that making the full rollers a much better option
Occasionally you'll need rockers that are off-set , to give more push-rod clearance, these rockers should be replaced on the same location, each time the engines assembled and clearances carefully verified
EXAMPLE
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRO-72871X1-8/
http://www.flatlanderracing.com/scorpio ... vySBoffset
http://www.compcams.com/information/Pro ... Roller.asp
http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-Aluminu ... 2/10002/-1
http://www.harlandsharp.com/sbc_offset.htm
http://www.mountainperformanceonline.com/pindex.asp
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=35121
time to lightly mark them as to cylinder and location
example
I1 E1
I2 E2
I3 E3
I4 E4
I5 E5
I6 E6
I7 E7
I8 E8
lightly stamping them
about like the EDELBROCK names stamped on this picture with just the cylinder #,
while they rest on a soft section of white pine 2x4 won,t hurt a darn thing
EXAMPLE
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRO-72871X1-8/
http://www.flatlanderracing.com/scorpio ... vySBoffset
http://www.compcams.com/information/Pro ... Roller.asp
http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-Aluminu ... 2/10002/-1
http://www.harlandsharp.com/sbc_offset.htm
http://www.mountainperformanceonline.com/pindex.asp
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=35121
time to lightly mark them as to cylinder and location
example
I1 E1
I2 E2
I3 E3
I4 E4
I5 E5
I6 E6
I7 E7
I8 E8
lightly stamping them
about like the EDELBROCK names stamped on this picture with just the cylinder #,
while they rest on a soft section of white pine 2x4 won,t hurt a darn thing
GRUMPYVETTE?
"I have a pair of AFR 210 heads equipped with springs to suit a hydraulic roller cam. These heads came with 7/16 rocker studs, but the rockers l have suit a 3/8 stud and l also have a stud girdle to suit. Should l change out the 7/16 studs and use the 3/8 with girdle, or just bite the bullet and buy some 7/16 rocker arms?"
http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles ... index.html
http://www.lunatipower.com/Tech/Valvetr ... metry.aspx
http://www.lunatipower.com/Tech/Valvetr ... metry.aspx
Pushrod Too Long: Notice how the pattern is wide, and shifted to the exhaust side of the valve tip
Pushrod Too Short: Notice how the pattern is wide, and shifted to the intake side of the valve tip.
Pushrod Length Correct: Notice how the pattern is narrow and is centered on the valve tip.
Id start by looking carefully at my current 3/8" rockers and if they have over about 40K miles to 60K miles Id pitch them,and go with the new rockers and if needed a new stud girdle.
especially if your valve spring loads exceed about 400 lbs at open, and start with new 7/16" rockers,
while its true that,the use of a stud girdle on the 3/8" rockers studs and its ability to spread the stress loads negates most of the advantage of the 7/16" rockers, studs , it does little for rocker wear issues,so your least expensive route is to swap to the 3/8" rocker studs , on those new heads,IF THE SPACING on the current rocker girdle IS IDENTICAL to the new heads requirements, and current stud girdle, so the current stud girdle can be re-used,if its NOT then I would go with new 7/16" rockers , mostly because I don,t know how old your current 3/8" rockers are or how much stress they have been subjected too, being that rocker are basically an expendable item like tires and fan belts with a life expectancy less than the full engine life span,and keeping them for much over about 40K is pushing things in my opinion, on a mild street cam, if your running something radical their life expectancy drops rapidly, as the lobe acceleration rates,lift and valve spring pressures are increased
remember that a stud girdle spreads the loads and reduces rocker stud stress adding valve train stability so its not the studs that normally fail but the rockers when a rocker stud girdles in use.
shaft rockers add rigidity , to the valve train,by eliminating the rocker stud flex issues,
but keep in mind that a rocker stud girdle can be added to the stock type of valve train,
and when used with quality roller rockers they add a good bit of rigidity to the stock style valve train.
short answer, as a rule of thumb,shaft rockers are advisable
(1) any time your valve open loads exceed 400 lbs and/or you want to exceed 6500 rpm regularly.
(2) any time you intend to exceed 7000 rpm regularly and valve open loads exceed 500 lbs they would be considered almost mandatory..
yes you can in most cases use a stud girdle, with quality roller rockers,
but the shaft rocker design tends to be more rigid, and tends to aid durability
RELATED THREADS
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-rockers-vs-rocker-stud-girdles.663/#post-911
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-in-vs-threaded-rocker-studs.2746/#post-43539
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ich-is-best-steel-or-aluminum.3124/#post-9141
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/roller-rockers.3009/#post-8361
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cam-lobe-aceleration-rates.2627/#post-8341
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...and-setting-up-the-valve-train.181/#post-1192
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/valve-train-clearances-and-problems.528/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...er-tip-vs-full-roller-rockers.2875/#post-7458
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-pushrods-and-check-info-you-might-need.5931/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-v-vi-to-adjustable-rockers.4564/#post-12170
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66950
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-141010
"I have a pair of AFR 210 heads equipped with springs to suit a hydraulic roller cam. These heads came with 7/16 rocker studs, but the rockers l have suit a 3/8 stud and l also have a stud girdle to suit. Should l change out the 7/16 studs and use the 3/8 with girdle, or just bite the bullet and buy some 7/16 rocker arms?"
http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles ... index.html
http://www.lunatipower.com/Tech/Valvetr ... metry.aspx
http://www.lunatipower.com/Tech/Valvetr ... metry.aspx
Pushrod Too Long: Notice how the pattern is wide, and shifted to the exhaust side of the valve tip
Pushrod Too Short: Notice how the pattern is wide, and shifted to the intake side of the valve tip.
Pushrod Length Correct: Notice how the pattern is narrow and is centered on the valve tip.
Id start by looking carefully at my current 3/8" rockers and if they have over about 40K miles to 60K miles Id pitch them,and go with the new rockers and if needed a new stud girdle.
especially if your valve spring loads exceed about 400 lbs at open, and start with new 7/16" rockers,
while its true that,the use of a stud girdle on the 3/8" rockers studs and its ability to spread the stress loads negates most of the advantage of the 7/16" rockers, studs , it does little for rocker wear issues,so your least expensive route is to swap to the 3/8" rocker studs , on those new heads,IF THE SPACING on the current rocker girdle IS IDENTICAL to the new heads requirements, and current stud girdle, so the current stud girdle can be re-used,if its NOT then I would go with new 7/16" rockers , mostly because I don,t know how old your current 3/8" rockers are or how much stress they have been subjected too, being that rocker are basically an expendable item like tires and fan belts with a life expectancy less than the full engine life span,and keeping them for much over about 40K is pushing things in my opinion, on a mild street cam, if your running something radical their life expectancy drops rapidly, as the lobe acceleration rates,lift and valve spring pressures are increased
remember that a stud girdle spreads the loads and reduces rocker stud stress adding valve train stability so its not the studs that normally fail but the rockers when a rocker stud girdles in use.
shaft rockers add rigidity , to the valve train,by eliminating the rocker stud flex issues,
but keep in mind that a rocker stud girdle can be added to the stock type of valve train,
and when used with quality roller rockers they add a good bit of rigidity to the stock style valve train.
short answer, as a rule of thumb,shaft rockers are advisable
(1) any time your valve open loads exceed 400 lbs and/or you want to exceed 6500 rpm regularly.
(2) any time you intend to exceed 7000 rpm regularly and valve open loads exceed 500 lbs they would be considered almost mandatory..
yes you can in most cases use a stud girdle, with quality roller rockers,
but the shaft rocker design tends to be more rigid, and tends to aid durability
RELATED THREADS
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-rockers-vs-rocker-stud-girdles.663/#post-911
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-in-vs-threaded-rocker-studs.2746/#post-43539
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ich-is-best-steel-or-aluminum.3124/#post-9141
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/roller-rockers.3009/#post-8361
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cam-lobe-aceleration-rates.2627/#post-8341
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...and-setting-up-the-valve-train.181/#post-1192
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/valve-train-clearances-and-problems.528/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...er-tip-vs-full-roller-rockers.2875/#post-7458
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-pushrods-and-check-info-you-might-need.5931/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-v-vi-to-adjustable-rockers.4564/#post-12170
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66950
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-141010
Last edited by a moderator: