Special Lifter for Checking Cam Timing

Indycars

Administrator
Staff member
Do manufactures sell a solid lifter with the same dimensions to replace the hydraulic lifter during cam timing checks? It would need to be the same length so you could also check rocker arm geometry and measure for pushrod length.

Is something like this sold to match each manufactures hydraulic lifter model???
 

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
Ive never heard or seen that but it would hardly be difficult to buy an extra flat tappet solid lifter to use as the designs are all close enough to work.
many guys in days past used a 1/4" fender washer they set temporarily into the top of hydraulic lifters on top of the retaining snap ring to center the push-rod and a dial indicator on the tip of a push-rod to degree in cams.
hydrauliclifter.jpg


but Ive had one of these tools in my cam degree kit for years and it works rather well

checklifter.jpg


pro-66838_w.jpg


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-6 ... toview=sku
if you plan on graphing the lift vs cam lobe rotation per degree of rotation, you can safely ignore, totally the lifter seat being held up on a running engine, when your using a lifter and push rod too move, and verify a dial indicator reading, (keep in mind the cam rotates at 1/2 the crank rotation speed.)
when checking the cam lobe lift and duration.as the cam rotates it compresses the lifter seat as the lobe acceleration ramp, or start of the lifter movement upwards in its lifter bore occurs.
this is how the oil is forced up the push rod to cool the rocker and valve springs and at low rotational rpm's the push-rod lifter seat bottoms out in the lifter well before max lift on the push-rod even gets close,
thus theres a minor delay in the lifter movement as the engine oil is forced up the push rod as the cam lobe rotates under the lifter base but this has very little effect on duration and almost zero on total lift.
use of a camshaft install handle generally reduces the chances of damaged cam bearings
CCA-4919_xla.jpg

cca-4919_w.jpg


checklifter3.jpg

these threads and the sub linked info should help

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=90

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=974&p=1699&hilit=+degree+wheel#p1699
 
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Indycars

Administrator
Staff member
So one plunger is to simulate the flat and the other to simulate a roller lifter. Wouldn't they have to be the same diameter or radius to provide the same cam timing numbers as the lifter that will be there when the engine is running???

This still would not help with the rocker arm geometry checks with an adjustable push rod. Wouldn't you still need a lifter with the same length, but in a solid to complete these checks???

This is assuming that the final camshaft will be a hydraulic.
 

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grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
Indycars said:
So one plunger is to simulate the flat and the other to simulate a roller lifter. Wouldn't they have to be the same diameter or radius to provide the same cam timing numbers as the lifter that will be there when the engine is running???

This still would not help with the rocker arm geometry checks with an adjustable push rod. Wouldn't you still need a lifter with the same length, but in a solid to complete these checks???
CCA-4760.jpg

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-4760
This is assuming that the final camshaft will be a hydraulic.

Dial_Indicator02.jpg

Gradskiva.jpg

you measure cam lobe lift with a dial indicator & lifter bore adapter tool for the dial indicator , your measuring lift in thousandths of an inch per degrees of rotation, and theres little or no resistance in the dial indicator plunger should you choose to use a hydraulic lift or a solid lifter, its height is almost a non-issue during the checking process.
checklifter.jpg


and a degree wheel
degreewheel4.jpg



valve lift is a different deal, as is measuring the valve train geometry
measuringclearance.jpg

checklifter3.jpg


where your main concern is making sure the valve train geometry and stress loads on the valve,in its valve guide and thru the rockers arc, and measuring rocker tip alignment with the valve tip, on its stud are more or less centered and equally distributed,and minimized to reduce friction,wear and reduce heat and lubrication issues
valvetip.jpg


RELATED THREADS
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=3367&p=8900&hilit=rocker+fulcrum#p8900

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181&p=7156&hilit=rocker+fulcrum#p7156

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=553&p=884&hilit=rocker+fulcrum#p884

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=698&p=992&hilit=+pushrod+length#p992
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Indycars

Administrator
Staff member
Ive never heard or seen that but it would hardly be difficult to buy an extra flat tappet solid lifter to use as the designs are all close enough to work. Many guys in days past used a 1/4" fender washer they set temporarily into the top of hydraulic lifters on top of the retaining snap ring to center the push-rod and a dial indicator on the tip of a push-rod to degree in cams.
I'll a little confused, I've read many times that a hydraulic lifer will compress enough to throw off your measurements. Is this only when using your regular valve springs??? The light checking springs and a hydraulic lifter work fine.....right???

Are you saying above that you can substitute a flat solid for a hydraulic roller during cam timing checks??? OR do I need a solid roller lifter for a hydraulic roller lifter during cam timing checks???
Another thing, the Dart SHP block requires a .300 taller lifter when using a cross link.
 

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
If you use the low tension checking springs,
051.JPG

and a solid lifter or substitute the lifter adapter tool and dial indicator,
Dial_Indicator02.jpg

or place a washer that rests on the hydraulic lifters retaining ring , you don,t need to worry, as the hydraulic lifter seats not involved in the measurements
 
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