the kick butt 45 caliber rifles

[grumpyvette]

now I know I'm not the only guy that feels this way, but Ive always felt just a bit more comfortable hunting with a rifle that throws a fairly serious size chunk of lead, and from the results Ive seen in the field there at least some justification for that, intuitive feeling that slamming a large game animal with a fairly heavy-45 caliber bullet seems to get their attention instantly.
Ive hunted rather frequently with a 45/70 and recently a 450 marlin, lever action, both throw a 350-400 grain bullet in the 1800-2000fps range with decent hand loads.
Ive also used a 458 win and 458 LOTT just for grins at times with good results.
now Id be first in line to say that where you hit game is more important than the caliber used (within reasonable limits of course.)but punching a 45 caliber hole in one side and out the other gets results.

on one of my first hunts with a 45/70 i remember watching a trail for hours and almost falling asleep, but after several un-eventful hours a group of deer slowly walked down the trail, at about 120 yards out it was not an ideal shot when the lone buck appeared but he dropped like a busted water balloon when I hit him in the throat as he faced me, looking down the trail and the bullet exited low between his legs making a real mess of his internals but that shot impressed me with the effect a 45/70 had on game
just a tip or two,
(1) use gas check bullet designs, they consistently provide less bore fouling
(2) use 215 fed primers as they seem to be the most consistent in my testing
(3) size the bullets you cast at .459, any smaller and accuracy seems to suffer
(4) if you graph out bullet weight vs velocity , and retained energy at 100 and 200 yards,

you get a curve indicating the 350 grain -420 grain weight is about ideal, in the 45/70 and 450 marlin rifles

all cartridges should be loaded to near max length the magazine can handle for best functional durability/consistency
as the loaded cartridge length must be rather consistent, heavier projectiles take up more of the available powder capacity, on reason projectiles over about 420 grains are not ideal.
http://gaschecks.castpics.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=17

heres a few molds I find work well.
http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/index.html

the 355 seems to shoot well with most powders

the pointed 405 can be used in the browning BLR box magazine but its marginally less accurate than the 355 grain in my experience, your rifle might be different
BTW I cast my bullets from 95% WW alloy and 5% pure tin, sized and lubed to .459 diam


https://www.midwayusa.com/product/632708/rcbs-1-cavity-bullet-mold-45-405-fn-45-caliber-458-diameter-405-grain-flat-nose-gas-check

heres jacketed bullets well documented to work well,in a 450 marlin

https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/45-cal-458-350-gr-interlock-rn#!/

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...-government-458-diameter-405-grain-soft-point

https://www.speer-ammo.com/bullets/rifle-bullets/hot-cor-rifle-bullets/458/458-350-fn-bullet

https://www.speer-ammo.com/bullets/...flat-nose-rifle-bullets/458/458-400-fn-bullet

IMR 3031 and WW748 , and RL7 powders all work rather well.

https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/45-cal-458-350-gr-interlock-rn#!/
on a recent hog hunt a buddy carried a marlin 45/70 loaded with Remington 405 grain bullets over a stiff load of H4198 powder.
for many years hes used a 30/30 marlin for deer and hogs but hes never gotten a decent hog over 150lbs and even some of those ran a bit before dropping before.
he was expecting to get a shot in heavy brush at a range of under 45-55 yards which his hunting guide had assured him was about average range, he was sitting on a fallen tree, trunk/log, when he heard squealing and heard a few shouts and saw the hunt guide run past him at about 20 yards
the guide had walked up on a large hog, while looking at some tracks, that hog was not at all happy with him being so close, that it rushed him, my friend shot the hog at less than 30 feet , it spun and squealed, on bullet impact, but made it less than 5 feet further.It was my friends first fairly large hog, as its dressed weight was almost 300lbs and hogs loose a good deal of weight being processed. hes thrilled with his 45/70, now obviously several other calibers could have done the same job, but the 45 calibers always seem to do a no-non-sense job and can be depended on from all angles to deliver a very noticeable blow to the game, theres almost never a situation where your guessing about (IF YOU HIT) like there is with calibers like the 30/30 where its not all that rare that fatally hit hogs run a bit before dropping.
obviously, a single incidence proves nothing , but it sure built confidence in my friend about his new 45/70

viewtopic.php?f=92&t=2952

 

[rbl2]

I'm with you on thinking a heavier, slower bullet is better than a lighter, faster one.

For reasons I can't explain I have always wanted a rifle chambered for a .357. The best reason I can come up with it eliminates the need for different bullets when it comes to having a matched handgun. Many have told me that although the 357 is a good handgun round it is, after all is said and done, a handgun round.

What would be your opinion of a rifle chambered for a 357?

 

[grumpyvette]

for about 20 years my brother-in-laws had a marlin lever action 357 mag carbine

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/ ... /1894C.asp

hes found that 158 grain soft point ammo does a decent job on deer

his favorite load is 10.5 grains of blue dot powder under a speer 158 grain bullet

lately hes used these bullets and found they work very well

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?p ... ber=762724

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... er&Source=

just accept the limitations, the fairly light caliber, for hunting imposed on you, you need to make heart/lung shots at under 125 yards on deer and you'll do fine.

 

[grumpyvette]

http://www.wildwestguns.com/alaskanguide.html

http://bighornarmory.com/products/rifle.php

viewtopic.php?f=92&t=11004&p=48594#p48594

the browning and marlin lever actions in caliber 450 marlin do a amazing job at dropping deer in thick cover in skilled hands
its hard to improve on the results you get from a 300 grain hollow point 45 caliber bullet at about 2200fps at close range

the last deer I shot with a 45/70 (405 rem bullet)got hit at about 40 yards in very heavy cover,he got knocked hard or at least stumbled, almost dropping, on impact then took off like a shot I was 100% convinced he was going to be a long trail job, but he made a single leap into dense brush and landed on his nose in a pool of blood with an exit wound that was not all that impressive.(golf ball size)...but there was basically very little left intact inside the chest cavity when I opened him up, i was amazed that he even made that single leap after seeing the damage
the last deer I shot with a 450 marlin (300 hornady bullet)folded like a bunch of wet towels
http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Cal-.458-300-gr-HP/

obviously every deer and shot differed but the damage a 450 marlin or 45/70 does is impressive and if the shots placed correctly, no deers going to run far, you simply can,t run with most internal organs like lungs,heart, destroyed

 

[rbl2]

Nothing here bigger than white tail to worry about. We have some small black bear but they are rare. My longest hunting shot here was at 375 yards. The vast majority are well below 100 yards. Should the opportunity ever arise for me to hunt large game elsewhere I will be sure to be better prepared.

 

[grumpyvette]

I may be in the minority but I hunt to relax and enjoy using a rifle, and to prove to myself Im both skilled enough to get close to game and a good shot and skilled with a rifle or hand gun,
one point that's been over looked is that theres lots of guys who own 458 win and 458 LOTT rifles that will NEVER use them in AFRICA!
most of us don,t have the funds or the time to spend but we can still dream and playing with bigger bore rifles can be fun!
now I own and use both calibers and find them to be very useful calibers but I also don,t load either caliber to its full potential, I load both to approximately the same levels as a 450 marlin, but keep in mind their use is more as a grin,, I own the rifles,...I like to hunt with a larger bore rifle, and its always good for a conversation if you meet some one and they ask what your hunting with, they pull out a 243 win and you watch their expression when you hand them a 458 LOTT, (worth the price of admission)Ive used both on ELK hunts but loaded with either hard cast bullets or 350-405 grain jacketed bullets at about 1800-1900fps which is more than enough to produce the desired results, if you slowly still hunt the thicker timber theres really no huge down side to use of the big rifles, other than their weight and recoil, but if your a gun nut that's not to much to pay for getting to hunt with and play with your BIG RIFLE
now obviously if you own those calibers its almost mandatory that you hand load as a decent hard cast bullet and loading to only about 1800fps both reduces recoil and greatly reduces cost, factory ammo can cost over $2 a cartridge, hand loads less than 50 cents each
and yeah! you smack an elk with a 405 grain rem you launched at ONLY 1800fps and as hard as, it may be for velocity junkys to believe, the bullets don,t bounce off and yes you can with some practice still consistently make well placed hits out to easily 200-250 yards
besides you can just about forget about not seeing a reaction from game, to bullet impact of not getting an exit wound, and keep in mind those big sharps buffalo rifles you read about never came close to a down loaded 458 LOTT in power or flat trajectory

my friend JACK in Colorado used his 450 marlin caliber BLR loaded with a 405 remington bullet over 50 grains of IMR 3031 last season, I don,t have pictures but he stated range was about 170 yards and the elk he hit behind the shoulder dropped withing 10 yards of being hit, bullet passed thru , he was very happy with the result.
I used the same load in my BLR and held under 1" 3 shot 100 yard groups off a solid bench rest at 100 yards

IVE used a 45/70 loaded to similar, but slightly lower velocity levels in the past and it killed elk very effectively.
the 45 caliber rifles work really well with the 350-405 grain bullets I would not be looking to use anything much lighter as you can do that with a flatter trajectory and less recoil in a smaller caliber, the 458 diam. has advantages if used with the heavy slugs,and one is deep penetration and an impressive wound track if used with the correct bullets
the rear locking 45/70 marlin action, even if using the 450 marlin chambering is limited to about 40K psi, the BLR is a front locking action that can handle the same pressure a 300 mag uses or close to 60K psi thats a 50% increase




I just can,t see why the 450 marlin caliber is not more popular,as a dark timber elk rifle.
IM growing very fond of mine after several months of range time, so fond I sold my old 45/70 thats been used for decades, and accounted for several elk, with zero worry that the 450 marlin blr won,t prove to be its equal or superior.
yes IM a gun loonie and yes I spend a great deal of time at the range, in fact I try to go at least twice a month minimum.
look the 450 marlin BLR is basically a lever action rifle cartridge that provides the user with awesome power levels in a fast repeat action with a reasonable trajectory that will handle anything in big game hunting out to about 250-300 yards in skilled hands and easily 70%-80% or more of ALL big games killed at less distance, load this cartridge up with hard cast bullets in the 350-400 grain weight range and you duplicate some of the hot loads that most guys use in modern 45/70s, accuracy's usually very good, penetration and stopping powers great, so whats not to like here? yes IM aware that the 450 marlins basically a duplicate of the 45/70 with hot hand loads,thats basically true, but the fact remains that the browning BLR is a stronger locking bolt system than a marlin and the 450 marlin caliber is available in a BLR while the 45/70 is not!
now Ive owned both and still own the 450 marlin BLR, the BLR is a GREAT choice in my opinion, and getting 1900 fps form a 400 grain hard cast slug in a BLR is just not that difficult and makes it a really effective ELK rifle for the thick timber, Ive used the 45/70 to kill ELK and the 450 marlin is SLIGHTLY superior in my opinion in both accuracy and speed of hitting the target (ease of handling) I know its going as my back-up thick timber rifle next year.
its been many years since Ive killed an elk at ranges over 250 yards so its not likely the trajectory is to be a handy-cap in any place I hunt
YES IM AWARE THE 7MM MAG AND 300 MAG GUYS MIGHT BE HAVING A CONNIPTION FIT, but the truth is wither they admit it or not that 250-300 yards is about the max range most games shot at.
if youve ever seen a well placed hit from a 350-405 grain 45 cal slug launched at about 1800fps or more on deer or elk, you know how effective they can be!

the BLR has front dual cam locking bolt similar to any normal bolt action vs the marlins rear locking single locking lug

The BLR is not really a lever action. It might be described as a bolt action operated with a lever. The fore section of the bolt rotates and locks as a bolt action would. Some would say this system makes the action stronger than Marlin,
the best load IVE found so far in my BLR is 50 grains of IMR 3031 over a 215 federal primer and using a 405 rem bullet, off a good rest, and firing slowly with a 4x scope I've found 1" 3 shot hundred yard groups are usually easy.
now to be totally honest recoil is similar too my 375 H&H carbine but its not really objectionable in my opinion, and no its not the ideal universal elk rifle, but youll have a hard time finding something better for still hunting the lodge pole and conifer covered canyon slopes where seeing anything much past 100-150 yards is rare


http://www.gunwalker.com/450marlin/handloading.html