"OK GRUMPYVETTE< I have dumb question? What is a windage tray and whats it for?"
windage trays don,t provide a huge boost in horse power,
the purpose is mostly in providing much improved oil control,
thus they can, if properly designed provide a much more consistent oil supply,
and enhanced engine durability through,
faster oil return and less aeration and increased delivery efficiency,
to the oil pump, the combo of a properly baffled oil pan,
windage tray and crank scraper insure the oil pan sump, oil volume,
over the oil pump pick-up maintains a useful volume of oil,
over the pick-up and thus oil pressure in the engine.
Ill try and answer that so you'll see the advantage of using one, first its not going to make you a great deal of extra horsepower, it MIGHT increase your rear wheel power 3-5 hp,in most applications, or a bit more if used with a crank scraper in combination, but what it will more than likely do IF its correctly installed with a matching baffled high capacity oil pan which along with a crank scraper, is become part of a total system too greatly increase oil flow control and maintain much more consistent oil flow rates for oil returning to the oil pan sump area and oil pump, and thus help maintain, consistent oil pressure to the bearings.
the main function of the windage tray or screen is to help maintain a higher , oil flow back to the oil pump, and volume of oil covering the oil pump pick-up, and prevent oil from being whipped into a froth containing air which will reduce bearing cooling and hydraulic surface support on the moving parts. its properly installed use , tends to speed the flow of returning oil to the sump, and reduce the oil in the crank case dragged around the lower engine with the spinning crank assembly, and reduce the air or foam in the oil pan sump.
the question always seems to come up about, "if you have a baffled high capacity oil pan, if you really need a windage tray?"
, the answer will vary with the application and the cars intended use, and average engine rpm, the engines run at, and in my opinion,for a street performance application, a correctly built 7-8 quart baffled oil pans probably fine, below about 6000rpm, without adding an additional windage screen,but generally youll see more consistent oil pressure with one installed, even well below that rpm level.
but I certainly would instal a windage screen on something like a road race car, even with a high capacity baffled oil pan, but in an application like that I,d also suggest an oil cooler too!
(provided your stuck with a wet sump oil pan, obviously a dry sump oil system with a 4 stage scavenging pump would be advantageous)
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1058&p=2016&hilit=drysump#p2016
Id also point out that its virtually impossible , in a well designed engine to run the engine "long enough to pump all the oil upstairs."[/img]
as with a properly designed baffled oil pan, with a carefully fitted and clearanced windage screen and crank scraper, the oil pump simply reaches a flow rate pumping oil out of about 100 or so potential lubricant flow leakage points
OIL PRESSURE read on the oil pressure gauge is a MEASURE of RESISTANCE to oil flow, you can REDUCE the pressure the gauge reads by either increasing the engine clearances or REDUCING the oil viscosity (thickness) so it flows thru the clearances faster with less resistance.(OR INSTALLING A SLIGHTLY WEAKER OIL PUMP BYE_PASS SPRING,that limits the pump pressure before it allows some oil to re-circulate back through the bye-pass valve ,from the high pressure back to the low pressure side of the pump impellers, but only the max pressure you reach is limited by the bye-pass spring,in your oil pressure bye pass circuit and its that spring resistance determines the point where the bye-pass circuit, opens and limits max oil pressure, but the bye-pass circuit has zero to do with anything else, if its functioning correctly,
there are many oil leakage points(100) in a standard Chevy engine.
16 lifter to push rod points
16 push rod to rocker arm points
32 lifter bores 16 x 2 ends
10 main bearing edges
9 cam bearing edges
16 rod bearing edges
2 distributor shaft leaks
1 distributor shaft to shim above the cam gear(some engines that have an oil pressure feed distributor shaft bearing.)
once oil exits the bearings or valve train it flows mostly by gravity back to the oil pan sump, but a properly designed windage screen and crank scraper correctly clearanced allows the spinning crank/rotating assembly to act like a directional pump that drags the vast majority of the oil flow back to the sump, by design.
Ive placed both scat and eagle crank shafts next to a similar chevy OEM crank, and carefully examined all three and in my opinion the eagle crank was the least well finished with the scat crank being the best, now obviously all three manufacturers have made several grades of cranks and I've used a truck load of SCAT and FORGED CHEVY crank shafts over the years with good results
knife edging a cranks counter weights BEFORE balancing the assembly reduces windage looses but can also make balancing the assembly more expensive
HERES A STOCK BIG BLOCK CHEVY WINDAGE TRAY (BARELY FUNCTIONAL BUT DIRT CHEAP)
HERES ONE THAT WORKS
http://www.rehermorrison.com.previewdns ... _21049.pdf
above is one type of windage tray, it bolts in most cases to extended main cap bolts and is located about 1/8" outside the arc of the spinning crank and rods,
HERES AN AFTERMARKET DESIGN THATS MORE EXPENSIVE BUT MORE EFFECTIVE
IF you've wondered why I suggest buying and using a well designed BAFFLED oil pan with 7-8 quart capacity its to prevent the oil from uncovering the oil pump pick-up under performance use.
without control baffles oil sloshes away from the oil pump pick-up
a very effective custom built windage tray can be fabricated for most oil pans from perforated steel, if you have minimal metal working and measuring skills
oil trapped or dragged by the spinning assembly passes over it surface, and louvers or a screen shears off oil and routes it efficiently into the oil pan, rather than constantly being dragged around with the spinning assembly like liquid in a blender.
1/8" works really well, , now IM sure if its a bit closer at .080- .100 it won,t matter much, remember the idea is to have the spinning crank assembly passing over the windage trays surface acting as a pump impeller to efficiently sweep the surface oil falling from the upper engine into the sump, quickly and efficiently, rather than allowing it to follow the crank as it rotates around constantly in the lower engine.
Adding a correctly installed and designed windage tray or screen assembly usually reduces drag on the crank and can result in a 3-5 hp increase but its main function is far more effective , return of oil to the sump, thus reducing the probability of oil pressure/supply problems, to the bearings, and over whelming the oil rings. Oil that's being whipped into a frothy oil/air mix, by the rotating assembly won,t provide the required lubrication, cooling and bearing protection
keep in mind the main function of a windage screen when its properly installed is to speed the return of oil flowing back from the upper engine and oil caught by the rotating assembly , back into the lower oil pan for rapid reuse. your trying to maintain oil levels in the sump for a dependable and consistent control of oil flow to the bearings by insuring return rates and oil volume around the oil pump pick-up.
your also reducing pumping losses as your reducing the weight of oil the spinning rotating assembly is dragging around in the lower engine as the spinning assembly acts a bit like a oil pump impeller as it sweeps oil into the sump, as it passes oil thrown from the crank, which is being more efficiently directed into the sump. its use is not so much about power gains as it is about maintaining total oil control
a chevy V8 will generally push some where between 2 and 6 gallons a minute thru the oil passages, your average oil pan sump holds at most 3 quarts ,while the engines running, and theres generally about 2 or a bit more quarts, of oil in the upper engine, (lifter gallery, heads)while the engines running, so when you induce high inertial loads is common for the oil pump pick up to become uncovered even in a baffled oil pan for a few seconds as that 2-3 quarts in the sump slams forward and back in the sump, because remember , lets say your engines only pumping 3 gallons a minute, and theres got to be at least 2 quarts in the sump to keep the oil pump pick-up covered under high inertial loads, its only going to take a few seconds at most under those conditions to suck air into the oil pump.
oil pressure accumulators come in various sizes and designs , they maintain oil pressure if the oil pump momentarily is uncovered due to high G forces uncovering the oil pump pick-up in the sump, so they are a valuable asset that increases durability and help to safeguard bearings and valve trains etc. under high inertial loads like high acceleration,braking or high speed cornering, that allows oil in the sump to slosh away from the oil pump pick-up in the sump.
read the related threads and linked info, below
it sure can't hurt and in most cases will help a great deal
not getting oil to rockers
" HEY GRUMPYVETTE??? What would cause 70lbs of oil pressure at idle and none to the push rods? Gauge is good. I put in a new hv oil pump and still no oil. HELP!!!!!!!!" just a tip guys, any ELECTRIC DRILL is going to have a difficult time spinning an oil pump priming tool , without heating up...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
Oil pump priming
I have attempted to prime and pre oil the system in my 355 build using the tool shown on Grumpy's stickys but am not sure if all is as it should be. The filter was filled pre installation and the balance of the 5 quarts of oil poured into the lifter valley. The tool in inserted and run with a...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
oil system mods that help
heres a short list REMEMBER the object or goal in building and maintaining the lubrication system is too maintain a 100% dependable pressurized cooling flow of lubricant to the bearings, rockers ,valves etc. your most important tool, is your ability to think about how things are supposed to...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
installing an oil pump pick-up tube
there's two ways ,...... you can use the correct tool, which is ADVISABLE! use this oil pump(link below) in most stock SBC builds, as it produces a 10% increase in oil volume and standard pressure which is just fine , but obviously check your bearing clearances and oil pump to oil pan floor...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
how your oil pumps pressure bye-pass circuit works,
theres seems to be a lot of mis-information about , how the oil pump regulates its pressure curve, and the related subject of shimming oil pump springs and how your oil pumps pressure bye-pass circuit works. PRESSURE, that you see displayed on the oil pressure gauge is a measure of the...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
READ THIS LINK
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/cc ... index.html
running an engine like this picture above ,with just an open oil pan, tends to waste 4-8 hp or more at higher rpms and may over load the rings with oil on the cylinder walls, and cause the bearings to get intermittent oil pressure
installing the combo of crank scraper and windage tray allows you to regain 4-8 hp,too have much better controlled ,& dependable lubrication and oil pressure and have less chance for bearing damage from oil starvation
without a windage screen oil in the sump is frequently whipped into a froth at high rpms reducing bearing support and cooling
with a windage screen oil in the sump is protected from being whipped into a froth at high rpms, thus increasing bearing support and cooling, so bearings tend to last a good deal longer
[/color]
another
some oil pans have them built into them,
the purpose is to BOTH speed the return of oil to the sump from the oil spinning off the bearings and rods/crank ETC. and to isolate the oil in the sump from the effects of the spinning crank acting as an impeller.
without a windage tray or screen the spinning crank assembly tends to beat the oil in the sump into a froth of oil and air at high rpm levels
with the windage screen properly installed the oil pushed over the surface is sheared off and thrown into the sump for reuse at the oil pump at a faster rate and partially isolated from the impeller effect of the spinning crank assembly.
keep in mind pushing/DRAGGING the oil around with the spinning crank assembly takes HORSEPOWER so minimizing the volume has the benefit of freeing up a bit of hp AND aiding or adding too the oil pumps supply of oil to the bearings in the sump as it speeds its return to the oil pump.
the correctly designed windage tray or SCREEN and CRANK SCRAPPER assembly doesn,t prevent oil from falling on the spinning crank, but centrifugal force throws that oil to the outside of the arc, where, its dragged around, and forced into the sump, what it does is provide a very effective flow of that oil back into the sump as the spinning crank acts as an impeller and drags the oil 1/2 way around its rotation and throws it into the sump for re-use rather than having the oil constantly and endlessly dragged around in a 360 degree circle by the spinning crank assembly, that far more efficient flow of oil limits the amount of drag the crank sees, and speeds the oil back where its useful, vs allowing it to be beat to a froth, and dragged constantly with the crank.
while its true that pumping oil, falling from the lifter gallery , around the crankcase with the rotating assembly, adds some drag and costs some hp, adding a correctly fitted windage screen and high capacity baffled oil pan to route that draining oil back to the sump efficiently minimizes the loss, and your forgetting that oil spray helps lube the rings and cam and cools the pistons, Ive seen more problems caused than solved restricting oil drain back.
I don,t restrict oil drain back, I use a windage screen and high capacity baffled oil pan designed to route the oil efficiently back to the sump, in theory at least the vast majority of the return oil flow will only make it dragged around about 240 degrees of the cranks rotational arc ONCE, but then Ive always prized absolute durability and dependability over getting the last possible 4-5 hp from an engine if it might lower that dependability, keep in mind the main gain in use of a baffled oil pan,windage screen and crank scraper used as a combo,is in effectively controlling and speeding oil return to the oil pump,and oil pan sump so you never have oil pressure fluctuation under high rpm or g-force loads, that a stock oil pan is subject too in a high performance environment, its not a big horse power gain, but it can be a huge improvement in engine durability
Genius Tools 3/8" Dr. Three-Legged Adjustable Metal Oil Filter Wrench 3" - 5" Filter Size Capacity - AT-B01
SUPERIOR DESIGN - Allows for broad range and tremendous gripping power EASY TO USE - Features heavy-duty grooved legs for positive grip to make your automotive job easier SPECS - Fits 3/8 inch drive and can be used directly with 3/8" drive ratchet handle ADAPTABLE FIT - Fully adjustable from 3"...
www.geniustoolsusa.com
http://www.milodon.com/oil-system/winda ... -studs.asp
as they drain oil to the sump faster
ESPECIALLY WITH A CAREFULLY FITTED CRANK SCRAPPER ADDED
I would not be all that concerned with measuring the oil level , in an oil pan by pouring oil in it to determine if the oil will be hitting the crank during engine operation.
remember theres about 2 quarts in the blocks oil passage ways, heads and lifter gallery at higher rpms and a good windage tray and crank scrapper, installed in a baffled oil pan, go a long way toward better oil control. a decent 7-8 quart rated oil pan with 6-7-8 quarts in it with a well designed windage tray and baffles will maintain oil pressure.
looking at the pictures suggests you should be fine, but I always suggest use of an oil windage screen minimum
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MIL-32255/?rtype=10
the high temp magnets tend to stay right where they are placed, in a steel oil pan, but youll need J&B weld in an aluminum oil pan application, in my experience PROVIDED you use the ones designed to function in the heat range they can tolerate, just be aware you don,t want them too close to swinging oil baffle door flaps in a baffled oil pan as they have been known to hold those swinging gates open or closed if placed in the wrong areas,
example,
If this is an oil pan with this oil control baffle wall installed ,with steel oil control baffle doors, placing a magnet above these baffle doors is almost sure to prevent them from closing or placing one below is a sure way to keep them locked closed, thats one reason light weight ALUMINUM baffle doors are preferred,even in steel oil pans, the oil sloshing moves them, from open to closed as designed easily , limiting oil flow to movement in the direction desired, and magnets don,t tend to limit movement
LSI/LS6 OIL ROUTING THRU BLOCK
BTW a contour gauge makes fabricating an effective oil scrapper far easier, and having it welded to the oil pans windage screen after careful fitting helps also. its not mandatory but its useful, the object of a crank scraper is of course to restrict oil leaving the pan by being dragged around with the counter weights , having a crank scrapper shears off the oil forcing it to drop into the sump, oil flowing across a windage screen surface tends to get thrown with centrifugal force thru the windage screen where it quickly drains into the sump.
http://www.amazon.com/General-Tool-833- ... B000E36098
http://www.amazon.com/Outset-QS71-Stain ... d_sbs_lg_6
LOOKING AROUND FOR SOURCES OF CHEAP MATERIALS ,THATS a GREAT IDEA!
heres another source for materials that might be faster and cheaper, depending obviously on what your trying to build,
a considerable enhancement too any wet sump oil pans efficiency to oil control can be made ,
through the fabrication of a semi circular perforated
sheet metal, oil control windage screen welded above , the oil control baffles in the oil pan,
located about 1/8" out from the crank assembly rotational arc,
you can weld tabs to bolt the screen into the oil pan making it a removable component. (use fine thread bolts and nyloc nuts) or weld it permanently into place
look carefully at the linked pictures below
READ THE LINKED THREAD
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/building-a-custom-wet-sump-oil-pan.65/
https://www.industrialmetalsupply.com/Products/perforated-sheet#1
https://www.industrialmetalsupply.com/perforated-steel-sheet/pss164848375
I generally buy 12" x 24" sections of perforated 16 ga to start a windage screen project , but salvage yards at times have old scrap computer cabinet doors with perforated metal doors that can be purchased cheaply as a good source
it would be rather useful to find a cost effective high volume oil pan and matching oil pump pick-up matching your particular application before jumping into the purchase of related parts,
don,t blindly grab your credit card and start purchasing parts think things through, measure accurately and you'll find you save yourself a great deal of wasted time and effort
fabricating a custom built windage tray like this if properly done will more than likely be cheaper AND more effective than many you could purchase
I generally use perforated steel, stainless or mild steel, galvanized or aluminum can,t be safely or easily welded into a steel oil pan, with the common mig welder, galvanized won,t weld easily and gives off toxic fumes, you can,t weld aluminum to steel
I generally buy a 12" x 24" sheet like this and make a poster card board , pattern and tape it with duct tape in the oil pan to test fit before I cut the metal ,that way I don,t screw it up before I start to cut and fit and weld it into the oil pan, the cost will generally be under $20 an oil pan
one more in an endless list of reasons to buy a decent welder in their garage shop
yes one more in an ENDLESS LIST OF REASONS TO OWN A MIG OR TIG WELDER
THESE LINKS ARE WORTH READING THRU
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=10490&p=44215#p44215
http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ScreenInstall.pdf
http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/baffle.htm
http://www.magnet4sale.com/smco-magnets-dia-1-2x1-4-samarium-cobalt-magnets-608f-temperature/
Crank-scrapers.com Product 1
www.crank-scrapers.com
http://www.milodon.com/oil-system/oil-pumps.asp
http://rehermorrison.com/tech-talk-74-t ... liability/
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187
http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles ... index.html
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