would you change the handgun you carry?

Grumpy

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
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would you change the handgun you carry?
would you change the handgun you carry?
if you were really concerned about your safety,
and thought you might be at serious risk?
one of the guys I hunt with regularly used to carry a small 380 semi auto, for several decades,
he rather religiously had it in his jeans pocket.
but recently he swapped to something with a bit more punch, a 357 mag 4" 686.
when I asked why, he simply stated, " the revolvers significantly heavier ,
and that 357 mag handgun , requires I wear a holster,
unlike the pistol that slips nicely into a pocket, but I've become much more aware of the risks,
after finding several interactive maps on line, that show the area we live in has had dozens of assaults,
home break-ins and home invasions' in our area, every month for years. ... that,
and one of my neighbors wife's was,
followed home from the ATM, robbed and seriously assaulted in her home carport."
the local news just ignores posting violent crime, stats or info unless someone's actually killed!
one factor is that I recently took him to an indoor range and verbally forced him to shoot at a target 15 yards away.
that opened his eyes to the fact that his older carry gun was pathetically inaccurate, while groups he shot with his,
hunting back-up revolver were less than 1/3rd of the size(still less than ideal,)
a 10" group with the revolver vs a 34" group with the 380 that only held 2 more cartridges,
but at least they hit someplace close to the intended target with the revolver.
read related thread
Grumpy

Post in thread 'Balancing Your Choice In Handgun Power Vs Shot Capacity In A Defensive Handgun'

we are making progress in standardizing the states laws,
but they (the political left) are being dragged kicking and screaming
into country wide uniform federal compliance
no other of the federally stated right's like recognizing your marriage , or drivers licences,
car ownership licences, recognizing federal I.D. to fly interstate is as resisted,
as much as recognizing your right to carry a firearm for self defence ,
if you have never committed a violent crime and are fully licenced,
to concealed carry a handgun, in your home state
and this does not yet mean...
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yeah I thought the reaction was mildly odd,
why carry, something you really don.t trust ,
logically if your not putting some thought into the selection, and your skill/ability to use it , and have it do a decent job ,if and when you need too.
I've always felt you need too have some confidence in what your carry and its potential, to stop an assailant, you probably need to re-think the process.
but up until recently his main concern was only ease of carry and concealment as he told me he thought the chances of needing to use it was about the same as winning the lotto!
he even admitted many days he just did not bother.
and while a revolver is very effective its cartridge capacity is rather limited,
ID think something like a glock ,9mm, 40cal,10mm, 45acp or one of the newer S&W high capacity pistols might be a more popular choice







HUNTING SIDE ARMS are a vastly different deal,
I have many friends that carry a 10mm pistol for their carry handgun, choice and for personal defense.
While I think the 10mm in several pistol designs,
makes a decent choice if two legged predators are the most likely opponent you'll encounter,
if your talking BEARS, I suggest a heavy caliber revolver, in a minimum of 44 mag,
but a 480 ruger , 460 S&W OR %)) S&W has advantages, many people think the high capacity 10mm with 10-17 cartridge capacity,
has a big advantage,
I think its very dubious simply because if charged ,
your very unlikely to have the TIME to get off more than 2-4 shots,
before your at bayonet ranges, thus the hits you make in that 2-5 seconds,
you might have had, had better work to stop that bear charge,
and ideally kill the bear, breaking bone and punching deeply through the vitals from any angle.
I've shot enough hogs and deer with my 10mm pistols to know they are 100% lethal when the shooter does his part placing shots correctly , but they have been very obviously not hitting nearly as hard as my 44 mag, 445 DWSM or 500 S&W revolvers
 
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Absolutely I carry every day a Sig 365 that I trust 100% but when I go some places where dress or conditions allow me I move to the Sig 226 because of more rounds and the fact that in my opinion is the best handgun made no dig on the 365 but I can shoot the 226 better because of the size and I'm sure this will all change as I try to find the perfect handgun and as long as they keep making them I will keep buying them
 
Wheel guns wouldn't be my 1st choice-- but I do carry one in an ankle holster as a backup. 44 snub nose with 2inch barrel for close quarters.
 
these are the guns I personally prefer to carry,
Im confident in all three
glock 10mm with 6" aftermarket barrel
carried maybe 70% -80% of the time ,
its the least accurate but its been 100% dependable and holds 15 cartridges:like:
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and can hold 2.7"-3" 25 yard groups
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AR-10MM ETS 30rd 10mm Magazine, fits Glock 20, 29, 40

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I really don't like glocks (synthetic frame pistols) much
Glock2010mm1.jpg
ammo.com

10mm vs 357 - Handgun Cartridge Comparison by Ammo.com

When it comes to stopping power, 10mm vs 357 is too close to call. Both are exceptional self-defense rounds, but can a magnum revolver defeat a semi-auto handgun?
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the most accurate, is my EAA WITNESS BUTS ITS A 10 shot 45 ACP
1.75"-2":laugh: 25 yard groups:like:
I wish I had as much confidence in a 45 acp

Bullet Design Details | Accurate Molds

accuratemolds.com accuratemolds.com
as I do in use of a 10mm

Bullet Design Details | Accurate Molds

accuratemolds.com accuratemolds.com
after hog hunting with both the 10mm and 45 acp,
the 10mm has shown faster lethality on hogs with similar hit locations
(BTW a 357 mag loaded with 168 grain hard cast bullets,
significantly out penetrated both semi auto pistols)

Bullet Design Details | Accurate Molds

accuratemolds.com accuratemolds.com

eaa_witness_steel.jpg


the EAA WITNESS


what 45acp cast bullets have you found to be effective for hunting?



one of the local guys wanted to try hunting local hogs with his 45 acp pistol,

like many guys rather unfamiliar with hunting with handguns he thought the 45 acp pistol should be more than adequate ,

like many of us, he being brought up on tales of how any single center mass, hit on a human target would be nearly instantly lethal.

now local game laws forbid use of full metal jacket projectiles,

so cast bullets or soft point or hollow point jacketed bullets are your only legal and effective choices.

knowing he wanted to handload and use a handgun..

suggested he purchase a 8" 357 mag revolver.



now personally, I've not been impressed with a 45 acp as a hunting handgun, , having used one on many previous hunts

most 45 cast bullets don't give impressive penetration or expansion, as velocity is rather low.



a balance must be struck, between accuracy and penetration.

I think logic would point many people to select a 180 grain jacketed hollow point or a 200 grain cast projectile,

as they can be pushed a bit faster insuring a bit more expansion.


now granted my experience is somewhat limited as most local hogs are in the 75lb-200 lb weight range and most of those I've shot were shot at under 35-50 yards as I generally won't shoot past the range I feel certain of exact shot placement and hogs rarely cooperate in standing still or providing optimal shot angles

but Ive found the heavier 230 grain bullets marginally out penetrate the lighter jacketed bullet options and in no case was a 45 acp nearly as effective, or a quickly lethal, on your average hog as a 158-170 grain bullet from a 357 mag
Grumpy

Post in thread '45 acp related info'

www.youtube.com

Best 45acp Carry Ammo?

In this video, I test different types of self defense ammo out of the S&W Shield .45acp & compare the results for those of you that carry the .45 in a subcom...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
www.theballisticassistant.com

SAAMI Pistol Cartridge Catalog | The Ballistic Assistant

www.theballisticassistant.com www.theballisticassistant.com
the standard load now is a 230 grain load at approximately 850-870 fps
modern loads increase velocity marginally higher but still below 900 fps-930 fps in...


https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...-xtp-100-count



https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...ated-500-count

these were a decent choice



https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...iber-200-grain



https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...old-452-230-tc

these were what I found worked reasonably well





https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...d-tl452-230-tc



I generally hunt with a EAA witness 45 acp
http://www.grumpysperformance.com/eaa_witness_steel.jpg
hardcastonly is online now
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S&W 1006 10mm, below is not as accurate as the EAA, 45 ACP above
and only holds 10 cartridges, but its a 10mm
2.5" 25 yard groups, are common, its heavy, BUT it just feels good , in your hand
IF I could buy a half dozen new magazines for a reasonable price,
(like $20-$23 each)
Id most likely carry this most days, as its accurate and powerful enough and I really don't like glocks (synthetic pistols) much
H4371-L238736024.jpg

f2f7.jpg

 
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I like that S&W and I'm not a real big S&W fan but I sure own a few and one of them is a 5906 9mm and it is very heavy so I bet that 10 mm is real heavy
 
I 'carry' for personal close quarter defense. I would not expect to 'shoot' at any range greater then about 15'; likely closer. I also do not expect to defend against the zombie horde. Consequently, I carry a Kimber K6S. I load it with six Hornady .38 spcl +P FTX.

Home? Again not concerned with the zombie horde so, my 12 gage side by side coach gun (backed up by my m1911 .45 acp) is my choice.

Pete
 


Grumpy

Thread '10mm vs 40 S&W'

keep in mind handloaders can select a wide choice of bullet designs,
and powder charges, so you can vary results a great deal,
the 10mm generally has about a 150-200 fps advantage in increased velocity.
with identical projectiles, and thus more rapid energy transfer and more bullet expansion,
keep in mind much greater expansion results in more rapid energy dumped and reduced penetration.
in bullets designed to expand, but with non-expanding bullets or hard cast bullets with the correct alloy
the 10mm tends to punch noticeably deeper
btw an alloy of 5% pure tin and 95% melted...

Grumpy

Post in thread '45 acp related info'

yes this is 100% based on my personal opinion, "I've shot the majority of the commonly available 45 acp chambered handguns,
in the southern usa
personal opinion, sure but after carrying one for almost 20 years before I swapped to a 10mm mod 20 glock,
I feel the SMITH AND WESSON 4506 is what I think is the best value in a 45 acp handgun
followed closely by the EAA stainless witness in 45acp
1756849055601.png

witness 45 acp
4506 S&W
1756849663389.png...
 
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I don't think many members of this web site, after reading numerous posts ,
will be amazed at the idea I consider the 10mm handgun, one of the better self defense cartridge options
Its been my choice since the late 1980s and while its not a huge improvement over a 45 acp plus p loading,
the 10mm is close to a 41 mag revolver cartridge, which in my opinion is one of the best revolver cartridges and compromises in power, penetration, flat trajectory, lower and controllable recoil, and in most pistols , the 10mm has more than adequate cartridge capacity
yet it does not have nearly the same tendency to vastly over penetrate an opponent and risk collateral damage in rooms
and through walls, behind the intended target.
obviously the projectile design and weight you select to use,
has a huge effect on results, for more penetration the 180-200 grain bullets are good,
especially for hunting or larger animals
if you want significantly less penetration and more shock on target ,
for personal defense at close range,
buy , or handload 135-150 grain hollow point bullets.

for hunting
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defensive use

cast gas check 10mm hunting bullet

Bullet Design Details | Accurate Molds

www.accuratemolds.com www.accuratemolds.com
something like this 215 grain bullet, in a cast gas check bullet,
should give both good accuracy and deep penetration,
if cast hot enough to look frosted with a 5% TIN/95% WW ALLOY
, well lubed and sized and pushed to close to max save velocity
40-215G.png
 
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the very basics mater,
can you shoot that handgun cartridge accurately and rapidly hit your intended target?
does it penetrate and expand on impact consistently in the potential range you might need,
on the target/ or potential threat, you might need to stop
can you reasonably conceal and depend on the handgun you select.
is that cartridge choice likely to over penetrate , after exiting an opponent ,risking hitting un-intended people

Which States Allow Constitutional Carry?​

There are currently 29 constitutional carry or permitless carry states.* These states are:

Alabama (PC-21)
Alaska (PC-21)
Arizona (PC-21)
Arkansas (PC-18)
Florida (PC-21)
Georgia (PC-21 and 18 for members of the military)
Idaho (PC-18)
Indiana (PC-18)
Iowa (PC-21)
Kansas (PC-21)
Kentucky (PC-21)
Maine (permits recognized; see Maine reciprocity section for details or PC-21)
Mississippi (PC-18)
Missouri (PC-19 or 18 for members of the military)
Montana (PC-18)
Nebraska (PC-21)
New Hampshire (PC-18)
North Dakota (PC-18 for residents only and concealed carry only)
Ohio (PC-21)
Oklahoma (PC-21 or 18 for military)
South Dakota (PC-18)
Tennessee (PC-18** or 18 for members of the military)
Texas (PC-21)
Utah (PC-21)
Vermont (PC-18)
West Virginia (PC-21)
Wyoming (PC-21)
Louisiana
and
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have joined 27 other states in recognizing Constitutional Carry.
The others on that roll are: Alabama; Alaska; Arizona; Arkansas; Florida; Georgia; Idaho; Indiana; Iowa; Kansas; Kentucky; Maine; Mississippi; Missouri; Montana; Nebraska; New Hampshire; North Dakota; Ohio; Oklahoma; South Dakota; Tennessee; Texas; Utah; Vermont; West Virginia; and Wyoming.
 
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38 Super vs. 45 ACP - A Pistol Caliber Comparison

A pistol caliber comparison of the 38 super vs. 45 ACP cartridges. What round is best for you and what are the advantages of each? Find out here.
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https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2017/tables/table-106.xls#:~:text=Average number of rounds fired by victim,number of rounds fired by assisting officers1,

Grumpy

Thread 'custom sheath or holster for your handgun or blade'






The average number of shots fired in a gunfight is three, and it typically happens in three seconds at a distance of three yards. This statistic is the basis for the "Three Seconds or Less" drill, which tests a shooter's ability to perform certain tasks in three seconds or less at three and seven yards.




there's a balance in several factors,that changes over time,
but you'll need to find a compromise between several factors,
and that balance tends to change, over time, and conditions.

ease of concealment.
size and weight.
ease of rapid deployment.
potential lethality with a decent hit.
consistent accuracy.
dependability / durability
ease of maintenance.(parts availability)
ammo availability.
cost of the handgun.
access to accessories like magazines and holster etc.

if you think things through carefully, just because you have a firearm,
does not indicate you can use it effectively
at a moments notice!
if you don't carry daily, and think the firearm you select is too big & heavy, or not likely to drop some crazy
guy on serious drugs without multiple hits, or it might be useless ,
if the threats from someone threatening you with a weapon from arms reach or from 30 feet away,
you should recognize there's a huge difference in the firearm requirements , between
a handgun that might prove very useful if your potential threat is a mugger confronting you at an ATM
where you might be faced with 1-2 thugs at less than 10 feet!
maybe, the threat you face is saving a child from, a pack of vicious dogs attacking a 3-4 year old child
and what you would select, if the threat was an insane active shooter at the local mall,
who is armed with a rifle.
where you might be forced to defend yourself at 40-50 yards/
yes all, threats are very unlikely , but people hit the lotto and get struck by lightning every few weeks,
and people have car insurance simply because it's inevitable, a small percentage of drivers will ,get in accidents
there's a fact, that you might be involved in an accident, even if you never do anything wrong!
Id suggest your choice should be accurate enough to hit a soda can at 40 yards,
and still fast enough in use to draw and take on several opponents,
at point blank range in very rapid succession
 
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keep in mind that you have dozens of vendors making holsters of very different quality and design, its almost certain one or more vendors does make one that fits and functions better to your specs than most other vendors do!

you always need to match the "TOOL to the JOB AT HAND" and you certainly want the best tool you can afford,
but there's always several compromises, that must be made.
there's always a balance that needs to be struck, between a handguns size, weight, barrel length,
cartridge selected, ,recoil and accuracy levels
you might for example find a 8" barrel length in a 44 mag in a shoulder holster,
as being just fine in a hunting handgun worn under a light windbreaker.
but that same combo would be a total P.I.T.A. if you were to try to use it for daily concealed carry use,
in a typical office environment
 
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keep in mind the projectile does 100% of the damage on the target ,
so selecting the best projectile and shot placement are both critical to getting better results.

top brands
FN
GLOCK
CZ
S&W
 
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read related thread
Grumpy

Post in thread 'Balancing Your Choice In Handgun Power Vs Shot Capacity In A Defensive Handgun'

we are making progress in standardizing the states laws,
but they (the political left) are being dragged kicking and screaming
into country wide uniform federal compliance
no other of the federally stated right's like recognizing your marriage , or drivers licences,
car ownership licences, recognizing federal I.D. to fly interstate is as resisted,
as much as recognizing your right to carry a firearm for self defence ,
if you have never committed a violent crime and are fully licenced,
to concealed carry a handgun, in your home state
and this does not yet mean...
 
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