500hp 383

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
heres some info for the guys wanting a stroker/carb combo

here are the specs: of a well built 383 designed for good horsepower without killing your bank balance too badly, but its not really street driver friendly


viewtopic.php?f=50&t=122

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=1598&p=3766#p3766

4-bolt 350 block bored .60 over
eagle 3.75" crank
eagle 6" h-beam rods
wiseco forged flattops with total seal rings--12.5:1 comp.
custom ground comp solid roller
251/260 duration @.50
640/653 lift with the 1.6 roller rockers
109 LSA and 106 ICL
huge brodix single plane--(main reason for "low" tq??)
750 dominator carb worked over, not sure of cfm (another
reason for "low" torque?)
dart pro 1 215cc heads ported with 2.05/1.60 valves
hooker super comp 1 3/4" headers
NOS plate system
full msd ignition and 10.4mm taylor wires
electric water pump, electric fuel pump, and electric fan

the motor also has stud girdles and a rev kit and i went with all forged internals so i can "spray" the poo-poo out of it.
522hp/498tq



heres a well built SBC 406
· Block, 509, +30, Zero deck, Blanked water passages, Clearanced oil ways, Lifter valley vents, ARP main & head studs, Durabond cam & Clevite 77 main bearings.
· Crank, Scat 4340 forged steel, 3.75”, internal balance, Pioneer SFI balancer + ARP bolt.
· Rods, Comp. Products 6.00” H beam bronze bushed + ARP bolts Clevite 77 bearings.
· Pistons, SRP #4032 flat top, 5cc relief, Speed Pro plasma moly file fit rings.
· Complete rotating assembly balanced. Including - Flywheel, Clutch, Balancer & Crank pulley.
· Heads, AFR 210 Race Ready, 76cc, 2.080/1.600 valves, drilled for steam. FelPro #1014 gasket.
· Cam, Comp. Cams ‘Magnum’ #12-450-8 (286HR) Hydraulic roller.
230/230 @ .050, .377 lift 110 LSA 106 ICL.
· Pushrods, Howards Cams heavy wall 5/16” 7.4” long.
· Rockers, Pro Magnum roller, 1.6, 7/16” stud.
· Lifters, Pro Magnum hydraulic roller. AFR Hydr-Rev kit.
· Comp Cams Springs #950 + #740 retainers installed at 1.875”
· AFR rev kit, AFR stud girdle.
· Lube, Melling M99HVS pump, Canton 7qt 5 trap pan with inbuilt windage and scraper, Cooler, Accumulator, oil stat, remote filter.
· Holley 800cfm #4780C, 1” spacer, Victor Jr single plane.
· Static CR 10.32, Dynamic CR 7.9.
· Quench 0.0415” (Gasket .039” + .0025” down hole).
· MSD Pro Billet Street Dizzy, MSD 6AL, MSD Blaster 2 coil, MSD 8,5mm leads.

RPM BHP Torque
3800 367.3 507.7
3900 384.0 517.1
4000 395.1 518.8
4100 407.9 522.5
4200 418.9 523.8
4300 429.4 524.5
4400 439.6 524.7
4500 449.6 524.7
4600 462.1 527.6
4700 467.4 522.3
4800 476.6 521.5
4900 485.4 520.3
5000 489.2 513.9
5100 498.5 513.4
5200 496.0 501.0
5300 506.1 501.5
5400 508.4 494.5
5500 508.7 485.8
5600 505.6 474.2
5700 505.8 466.0
5800 505.8 458.0
5900 494.6 440.3
6000 491.9 430.6
BTW
READ THE LINKS AND SUB LINKS FOR A GREAT DEAL MORE DATA.

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=125

two builds well worth reading thru

http://www.brodix.com/heads/tonydyno.html

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article085/A-P1.htm
 
filmjay said:
What would you suggest for an EFI cam with this 383 combo?


whats that COMPLETE LIST of engine parts in the combo, that it needs to run in conjunction with, and its matching (HOPEFULLY) drive train, gearing, compression ratio, ETC. consist of and whats the limitations, like does it have to pass emission testing, or run on pump gas? are you forced to run an exhaust past the headers?
do you expect to run on the street?
WITHOUT decent info you can,t expect a reasonably precise answer

I have built a bunch of 383-406 SBC engines over the decades, I have a few brands Of cams I try to use and a few I avoid like the plague , due to past experiences dealing with the companys.
most were built and used in muscle cars and used as daily drivers so they got hydraulic roller cams like a CRANE 119661
crane119661.png

or a CROWER 00471
crower00471.jpg

these produce good power and instantly responsive torque curves which in a daily driven car is far more important than a few extra peak HP!


http://www.herbertcams.com/560-580-lift-250-255-dur-050-110-lobe-center/

theres some rather significant advantages in ordering a cam that closely matches the engines, some companys make custom ordering rather easy like HERBERT CAMS
requirements, and after building dozens of similar engines youll notice some trends and you may want to tweak the cam timing, this of course requires both a good understanding of what your trying to change or accomplish and what the changes you intend to make are likely to do to engine performance.

heres a cam thats rather well known for producing good power in a 10.7:1 compression 406 SBC combo.
(use mostly for racing in a light weight car like a cobra replica)
Ive built several times in the past, it really requires the following matched components
210-230cc port heads, 5" scat rods on a forged crank, a 3600-3800rpm stall converter, a 4.11:1-4.56:1 rear gear and an automatic trans that shifts at 6300rpm under full load race acceleration.
a good single plane intake like the edelbrock VIC series, an 850 cfm carb, long tube 1 3/4" headers 1.6:1 roller rockers and a rocker stud girdle
customd2.png


heres the came basic cam, but with a few mods that provide about 20 extra horse power, but at the cost of a noticeably rougher lope in the idle
notice the tighter LSA and its a 4/7 swap cam version on a smaller base circle
customd1.png
 
Last edited by a moderator:
grumpyvette said:
whats that COMPLETE LIST of engine parts in the combo, that it needs to run in conjunction with, and its matching (HOPEFULLY) drive train, gearing, compression ratio, ETC. consist of and whats the limitations, like does it have to pass emission testing, or run on pump gas? are you forced to run an exhaust past the headers?
do you expect to run on the street?
WITHOUT decent info you can,t expect a reasonably precise answer

So sorry. I was assuming using the parts listed in your first post. I'm still trying to learn about the little things for my first bare block build....the books are on my Santa list.
I have a Northstar...but from what I'm gathering about it, I could easily build a 500-600hp 383 and still have $$$ left for a decent T5.

But, I was thinking of that motor but with an 40mm or 45mm ITB intake setup

So, I'll just modify it a bit for lightness in the rotating assembly...not really looking at price. Just benching for reference.

Dart 4-bolt 350 block, 4" bore -http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+4294925232+4294839078+4294816120+4294836893+400333+329222+115+4294870219&autoview=sku ( + necessary local shop machining)

eagle 3.75" crank -http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ESP-4350375057LA&autoview=sku

eagle 6" h-beam featherlight rods -http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ESP-6000BLW&autoview=sku

Wiseco forged 4" 4032 alloy. -http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+4294925232+4294839001+4294908216+4294840140+308254+115+4294782068&autoview=sku
Not sure about what kind of CR I'd get from either flat-top or dished...keeping in mind, the motor wouldn't be supercharged until later. So drivability with out it would need to be considered.

Intake - Moon Down Draft -https://www.mooneyesusa.com/Store/product_info.php?cPath=188_77&products_id=644&osCsid=29113b7eecd3c262b64b2e57373fe393

ITB's - Extrudabody Weber replacement, 45mm straight bore IDA's. -http://www.extrudabody.biz/servlet/the-95/8-dsh-ITB-dsh-KIT-dsh-45mm-or-Quad-DCOE-fdsh-IDF-fdsh-IDA/Detail

cam - that's what I'm not sure on. I'd like to keep a flat-tappet for less valve float and a bit higher rpms....but the tunability of ITB EFI is more important to me than a huge rpm range. Keeping in mind a NO2 or centrifugal supercharger MAY be added later.

heads - same you chose..dart pro 1 215cc heads ported with 2.05/1.60 valves
-http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=DRT-11521122P&N=700+-42064+-128298+400333+-100215+-100268+303822+115&autoview=sku

Headers...it would be going in a Z, so a set of shorty's..or custom fabbed.

Ignition - full MSD, but with Holley Commander 950 Controller -http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY-950-101&N=700+311404+115&autoview=sku

Dedenbear Remote electric water kit.
Fuel Lab Brushless Electric fuel pump
Electric fan

T5 trans.
R200 - 3.54 rear.

The car would mainly be used for a semi-daily driver (with little regard for mileage) and the occasional Saturday night 1/4 mile pass. But with the EFI and Commander, separate situational fuel maps wouldn't be a problem. I could load a map for driving here and there, and a different map for max power for the 1/4.

Of course, I'm fully open to suggestions for alternate comparable parts to save a little scratch.

Thanks in advance...and again, sorry for my vagueness. I'm still learning. :)
 
points to ponder

http://www.hilborninjection.com/product ... &CatId=174

http://www.kinsler.com/page--New-Products--3.html

http://www.inglese.com/

all most all of these induction systems ABOVE will have a CHEAPER total out the door price and probably work better once you add in, the true cost of injectors, cpu, software, linkage, wire looms ETC. too that moon intake(which btw is mostly for looks as its not that good for max flow rates) and ITB tb combo. and the HOLLEY comander softwares not really designed for IR runner EFI systems.

a 3.54:1 rear gear and shorty headers are going to kill off a good deal of the power potential and any engine set up nto run correctly with IR fuel injection as a N/A combo will have far higher compression than a supercharger can effectively use!

MY last IR EFI combo used a KINSLER INJECTION SYSTEM, and vran 13.7:1 compression, but it would NOT run on pump octane fuel and I ran a manual transmission and 4.88:1 rear gears

your looking to spend about $12K on that combo, look, at the

620 Super Class Complete Motor

http://www.ohiocrank.com/enginespage1.html

This engine now makes 900 HP at 6400 RPM with 830 lb. ft. of torque at 4800 running 33 degrees of timing. The cam lift is only .748 and the rockers are Jesel shaft mount. No need to check valve springs and lash between rounds.

you could save a few bucks and increase power significantly, just ordering one
 
WOW! :eek:

I'd love a big block...if nothing else, you can't beat the sound! :D...or the power potential.

Just not sure how well a big inch motor would fit into a 280 without having to do a full front subframe or raising the hood.
I'm doing a GTO conversion, so I'd like to stay away from major hood mods...the reason height is a factor. I'd like the ITB's to stay vertical...no side drafts or crossrams. Hence why I was looking for a small block.

Plus, it would need to run on at least 92-93 octane. The local Turbo Blue distributor is now gone and I can't be ordering drums of VP every month.

I'd love, love, love to see 4 Webers sitting on top, but their reputation of constant tuning is what has driven me to ITB EFI. I'm much more computer savvy than carb savvy.
For your IR EFI motor that you did, what ECM/controller system did you use?

Not to mention, I WOULD like to stay under $10K ideally.

So, I guess what I need to part for is a pump gas, semi-daily driving/street-friendly $8-10K. Emissions isn't a factor since TN is now under the SEMA law, and my GTO replica will be titled as a '62 or '64.
Total power isn't as much of a concern as drivability. I'm not looking to stand the nose up. Just a domestic combo that is Weber or ITB friendly and will fit under the hood and between the frame rails.

Back to the drawing board, I suppose.
Thanks for the links, the info, and your time.

....and those Ohio Crank motors are some of the most bada** I've seen. :)
Makes the Baldwins look like Briggs and Stratton. HAHA! I like the 550 Urban Assault and 454 combos....just not sure it'd fit. Plus, I WOULD like to learn to build myself....
 
ok back to the real world and a realistic budget and realistic plans

step one

DO YOURSELF A HUGE FAVOR, if your new to hotrodding cars,
buy these books, FIRST it will be the best money you ever spent, read them, and you will be miles ahead of the average guy. youll save thousands of dollars and thousands of hours once youve got a good basic understanding of what your trying to do
!


http://www.themotorbookstore.com/resmchstvi.html

how to assemble an engine basics on video


these books


HOW TO BUILD MAX PERFORMANCE CHEVY SMALL BLOCKS ON A BUDGET by DAVID VIZARD
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Perform...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195231793&sr=1-1

JOHN LINGENFELTER on modifying small-block chevy engines

http://www.amazon.com/John-Lingenfe...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195231760&sr=1-1


SMOKEY YUNICK,S POWER SECRETS

http://www.amazon.com/Smokey-Yunick...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195231724&sr=1-1

http://www.brodix.com/heads/tonydyno.html


READ THIS
theres no problem building a 396 SHORT BLOCK vs the 383 by installing the slightly longer stroke crank, EXCEPT that the clearancing work, requires careful grinding as its possiable to get into the water jackets on some blocks if you get careless, the choice of connecting rods, oil pan, and cam too rod clearance takes more time and thought due to the tighter clearances and longer stroke and requirement to grind the block slightly more and the cam to rod clearance is where many guys get into problems
the 383 is more popular mostly because its slightly easier to build, YOUR ALMOST SURE TO REQUIRE A SMALL BASE CIRCLE CAM , with EITHER STROKER AND STROKER PROFILE RODS ARE ALMOST MANDATORY and while it takes less planing to build the 383 vs the 396 SBC,and THE 383 COMPONENTS are GENERALLY CHEAPER AND EASIER TO FIND.
you will have a slight advantage with the larger displacement when your done, but youll find after shopping those few extra cubic inches raise the component prices a good deal and that if your useing 6" connecting rods that the piston pin in the oil ring is a P.I.T.A. compared to 5.7" or 5.875" rods
you might find these of interest

http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/showfl ... ost1232754

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=461

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=780

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=685

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=804

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article085/A-P1.htm

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article031/A-P1.htm

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/art ... A16-P1.htm

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/art ... A14-P1.htm
 
Thank you sir, for the info...and again, your time.

I've been through your "required reading" list, and have already ordered a few of them.
Though, I think I missed Smokey Yunick's and John Lingenfelter's books.
...and I don't think the ol' lady will let me at them before Christmas. :lol:

You may have seen my "Northstar" thread over at Hybrid Z...and I think that's just a little too much for me at the moment. Budget wise AND skill-wise. The parts are there, but the specialty tools alone would be worth a decent set of heads for a SBC.

Thanks again. I'll try not to post any more wholly uninformed questions. They just clutter up the good info.
 
there are darn few STUPID QUESTIONs if knowing the answers prevents problems, so ask away!
I don,t mind helping where I can.

IM WORKING ON ADDING TO THE CADDY SECTION BTW

viewforum.php?f=76


the problem with the north star is the very limited amount of speed parts support and its limited displacement. ID strongly suggest finding a 472-500 caddy if your into caddy engines, or going with a CHEVY V8 if your looking for an EASIER swap with a huge supply of info and parts availability.
many salvage yards can supply a 472-500 caddy engine for under $400, Id bet you could have a reasonable combo up and running if you had a complete caddy donor car, and the datsun for under $3k

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=101463&highlight=caddy

101_0132.JPG



BTW CADDY BLOCK HUGGER HEADERS!!
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/472-500-CADILLAC-TIGHT-FIT-HEADERS-PLAIN,4645.html
IF you were local and had a decent budget set aside IM sure my freinds could quickly install the caddy northstar and get it driveable, but its very unlikely to be a cost effective swap
 
now,back to the original thread subject

theres no problem building a 396 SHORT BLOCK vs the 383 by installing the slightly longer stroke crank, EXCEPT that the clearancing work,requires careful grinding as its possiable to get into the water jackets on some blocks if you get careless, the choice of connecting rods, oil pan, and cam too rod clearance takes more time and thought due to the tighter clearances and longer stroke and requirement to grind the block slightly more and the cam to rod clearance is where many guys get into problems
the 383 is more popular mostly because its slightly easier to build, takes less planing and THE COMPONENTS are GENERALLY CHEAPER AND EASIER TO FIND.
you will have a slight advantage with the larger displacement when your done, but youll find after shopping those few extra cubic inches raise the component prices a good deal and that if your useing 6" connecting rods that the piston pin in the oil ring is a P.I.T.A. compared to 5.7" or 5.875" rods
you might find these of interest

http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/showfl ... ost1232754

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article085/A-P1.htm

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article031/A-P1.htm

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/art ... A16-P1.htm

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/art ... A14-P1.htm

before jumping into building your 383 (OR ANY ENGINE PROJECT) you should strongly think about printing out a very detailed parts list and find out the TRUE cost of all the machine work at the local machine shops, and parts youll want, DON,T list just the major components, list the true cost of all the bearings, gaskets, oil pans,pushrods, cam,lifters,rods,crank,valve covers, etc.
then compare that to a crate engine cost, in some cases youll find its actually cheaper and faster to buy a crate engine that might even have a warranty

IF you do want to build the combo yourself I think the best advice I can give is spend a good deal on the some of the best cylinder heads you can get on your budget, go for the largest displacement you can,easily afford ,don,t forget a good high capacity baffled oil pan, and that a flat tappet solid lifter cam and some decent roller rockers tend to give you good value cost vs performance and if sellected correctly more rpm on the upper band than a hydrolic roller cam, and check clearances carefully,and if your oil/lube, and cooling system is not top notch, it doesn,t make much differance what power you make the engine won,t last long under high stress.


http://www.ohiocrank.com/chev_sb_shortb.html

http://www.dougherbert.com/383chevybudg ... 14_615_748

http://www.dougherbert.com/383chevysbst ... 14_615_748

http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?Pa ... odID=18295

http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?Pa ... odID=17811

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=125

on a typical 9:1-10.5:1 cpr sbc performance build I think youll find this chart helpful
30228b.gif


theres a great deal more than just selecting a cam, alone involved in building a good street combo.
building a combo for decent street manors and massive torque, is alot differant than building a combo with PEAK horsepower numbers as the main goal,
factors like rear gearing,transmission, gearing, transmission type, cylinder head flow and cross section, intake design,carb size, your ability to tune a carb, exhaust design and car weight ETC.can make or ruin a combos street manors
 
this is the type of challenge/upgrade I work on for the guys all the time, AND I'M CERTAINLY NOT SUGGESTING YOU CAN,T REACH YOUR GOAL,THRU OTHER ROUTES, BUT THAT APPROACHING THE PROBLEM LOGICALLY ITS FAIRLY EASY TO PLAN YOUR GOALS AND COURSE TO ACHIEVE THEM,Ill make some suggestions but you'll make the choices. keep in mind the cam timing, compression ratio, head flow rates,rear gearing and stall speed MUST match
- FIRST TPI Intake.(good choice)
firstin.jpg



firstt.png

firstf.png

intake comes with a new throttle body

reading thru the sub linked info in these threads will provide a huge amount of info
DEAL IN PROVEN FACTS NEVER GUESS , NEVER ASSUME
look through these threads

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...earances-and-journal-surface.9955/#post-38385

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/clearance-issues.12072/#post-57822

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...g-and-installing-connecting-rods-pistons.247/

notice how the rod bolts come close to the cam bearings and cam lobes,as the pistons reach top dead canter in the bores, this clearance must be individually checked and should be no less than about .060 (generally you cam use a LARGE plastic tie-wrap
https://www.amazon.com/BuyCableTies...D=41U9CtmwOuL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=detail
12cal.jpg

41owudXrErL.jpg


placed between the cam lobe and connecting rod bolts or connecting rod shoulder areas to check clearances as the soft tie-wrap will not damage the cam lobe while you verify clearances)you must install the timing set and index the cam correctly to get a valid clearance , as the cam lobes rotate and at some point they can be incorrectly indexed too hit the rods, while they would not if correctly timed.

block-clearance.jpg

clearancedrod.jpg


rodcaptocamclearance.JPG

rodcaptoblockclearance.JPG



BaseCircleDiacv.jpg


why you need to verify the cam to rod bolt clearance

rod-grinding.jpe

on some stroker applications SOME rods need to have the bolts ground for cam lobe clearance

first step.

before you start panicking and potentially wasting money and time.
would be to assemble a single piston and rod assembly without rings,
but ideally with some old bearings on the crank and connecting rod and install the cam, in the block
( indexed with a simple,dot to dot timing on the timing gear sets should be ok at this point)
move that connecting rod and piston to all 8 locations and very carefully verify clearances (remember the rod clearance bevel faces the crank counter weight and the piston valve clearances face the outer block)through the full 720 degree rotational cycle, remember the cam spins at 1/2 the crank speed so the cam lobe comes close to the rod every other rotation,
and actually verify you DO, have or DON,T have a potential clearance problem
theres zero sense in runninbg around pulling your hair out and screaming until,
theres actually a PROVEN ISSUE too SOLVE (THERE MAY NOT BE!)
now if you find theres an issue to be solved you proceed using facts
and while your checking the cam lobe to connecting rod clearance check the connecting rod to block clearance ....yes the same minimum .060-.080 clearance is suggested
lobeclear.jpg

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...earances-and-journal-surface.9955/#post-38385

generally its a minor easily done clearance job
camlcc1.jpg

camlcc3.jpg

camlcc4.jpg

camlcc5.jpg

camlcc6.jpg

camlcc7.jpg

http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/index.htm
don,t forget to verify the cam to connecting rod clearances
a cams VALVE LIFT is determined by the DISTANCE the lifter moves as the cam rotates under the lifter base as it moves from the cam lobe base circle
(the closest the lifter comes to the cams center line)
up to the cam lobes ramp to the lobes peak,
(the furthest the lifter up off or from the cams center line)
don,t forget to carefully check the piston skirt to crank counter weight clearance, it should be a MINIMUM of .080 thousands

heres some pictures taken of an engine assembly that use a crank designed for a MINIMUM of a 6.25" connecting rod that was used with a 6.135" connecting rod

p140811.jpg

piston1.jpg

you can clearly see where the piston pin boss was being hit bye the counter weights, even though the builder checked one piston and found it had .025 clearance during assembly

pistontocrankclearance.jpg


the result was a trashed engine with lots of damage

piston2.jpg


viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1249&p=3409&hilit=stroker#p3409

first question I'm usually asked is WHY build a 383-401, that's simple, you want to use the 350 block that came in the car to save money and make this a simple operation, the 383-401 strokers make excellent power and the increased displacement has advantages,(more total hp and a lower average rpm band) if a 350 makes 1.1 hp per cubic inch you have about 385hp, the same hp ratio in a 383 gives you about 425hp. and usually at about 300-400 rpm lower average rpm, that's easier on the valve train.
the first thing you'll need to get strait in your mind is the realistic budget you'll be willing to work with and that performance is basically the result of the power to weight ratio and HOW effectively you can get the power to the ground. keep in mind that for a street car your NOT building the engine for max peak power, your looking to build for the best average power/tq curve over the rpm range youll use most

AND THAT HAVING SLIGHTLY MORE HP THAN THE MINIMUM REQUIRED IS SMART, simply because you won,t always have the ideal tune or traction available,its silly to shoot for minimum levels yet its a waste of money to over build the engine, to levels you'll seldom use or even want, as theres always compromises in drive-ability

ok first Id point out that its silly to build anything smaller than a 383 displacement simply because you'll make significantly greater total power from a larger engine than a smaller one,COSTS for a 383 are just not that much higher than a 350, and its TOTAL POWER not horsepower per cubic inch your interested in!

next,CORRECTLY MATCHING the cylinder heads, cam and compression ratio , to the rpm range where you'll get the best results is where you'll make most of your power potential.

think it thru before buying parts, and only select those components that match your goal,by far the most common mistake is randomly selecting mis-matched parts because you "GOT A DEAL"

ok lets look at your options, to keep costs reasonable we want to use what we can from your current engine but its insane to limit yourself to parts that restrict your potential power levels severly like the current heads,intake and rear gear ratio.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1249&p=3409&hilit=stroker#p3409


the formula for hp is (tq x rpm/5252=hp
example
450 ft lbs of torque at 3000rpm=257hp
450 ft lbs of torque at 6000rpm=514hp
because the torque is available at that higher RPM RATE and at the higher rpm using gearing the rotational force the engine supplied can be applied faster or slower to the rear tires

if your smart your not looking to spend a huge amount of cash but you do want a reasonably quick car,
a few calculations will quickly point out that your really looking to have between 375-450 rear wheel hp, that basically translates into an engine making about 18% higher power at the flywheel, so lets assume or goal is a 450-500 hp engine, now your basic 383 will be correctly designed and matched to a rear gear ratio in the 3.73-4.11 rear gear so you'll maximize the area in the torque curve that can give the best results, the 2800-6300rpm band. so that's where we NEED TOO concentrate our efforts. this should point out the stall speed of about 2800-3000rpm is ideal in this application to match your needs
a 383 with its 3.75" stroke and reasonably street-able cam will be using a cam with between ABOUT 225-235 duration at .050 lift with a matching compression ratio in the 10:1-10.5:1 cpr range

30228b.gif


look at this chart, it shows the ideal duration for best results at different rpm bands, well want the MINIMUM DURATION that will supply our needs that's going to be in the 220-230 range for street use,while the 230-235 range would be about ideal for power.but you'll loose street-ability.
we quickly find that duration will match to a 10:1-10.5:1 cpr if we want to use pump gas.

why do I usually suggest a hydraulic roller cam?
read this

http://www.idavette.net/hib/camcon.htm


ok,now the CYLINDER HEADS and intake NEED to supply that RPM RANGE and DISPLACEMENT, youll want a set of heads that flow about 230cfm AT .500 lift at the MINIMUM and 250-270cfm is FAR better,to easily match that requirement.

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product2_10001_10002_760699_-1

http://airflowresearch.com/eliminator.php

http://www.compcams.com/Community/Articles/Details.asp?ID=1737510521

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=TFS-32400007&N=700+304524+115&autoview=sku


those heads and that compression ratio, and cams Ill suggest will match the 3000rpm stall speed but youll need a 3.54:1-3.73:1 rear gear ratio to match.

cams like this

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=119661&lvl=2&prt=5

heres the SMALL BASE CAM I USE IN MY 383
NOTICE it has a .900 base circle

your cams lift is the result of the lifter movement distance from the cams base circle, where the valves seated to the point where its fully up on the nose of the cam lobe where the valves at full lift.
example
lets say in this case we compare two imaginary cams
a standard cams base circle is 1.125" and
your cams running on a .900 base circle
both cams have a .560 valve lift and run with 1.5:1 rockers
so both cams will need to move the lifter .374"
that means the standard cam lobe will be 1.125"+.374" or 1.499" from the cams base to the cam lobe nose
that means the small base cam lobe will be .900"+.374" or 1.274" from the cams base to the cam lobe nose
which is significantly smaller

a small base circle gives more clearance because your cam lobe lift is the difference between the base circle and the lobe nose, lets assume a .500 lift on a Chevy sb
they normally use a 1.5 ratio rocker so the cam lobe needs to be .3334 tall , so with a standard base circle the lobe nose swings in a circle that's about 1.766 in diam.
(
a small base circle cam like my crane with its .900 diam. with the same lobe would only spin in a circle that's about 1.568 in diam. giving about 0.100 inches MORE CLEARANCE TO THE POTENTIAL ROD/CAM CONTACT AREA

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=119661&lvl=2&prt=5

this makes slightly better PEAK power, but was less street-able

http://www.crower.com/misc/cam_spec/cam_finder.php?part_num=00471&x=20&y=9

stroker kits

http://www.speedomotive.com/ps-522-85-383cid-mighty-mouse-budget-all-forged-stroker-kit.aspx

http://www.speedomotive.com/ps-525-85-391cid-all-forged-stroker-kit.aspx

installing a longer 3.75 stroke crank assembly
Ive built dozens of 383 and 396 sbc engines and the clearancing can be done BY YOUR OWN HANDS with a standard HAND HELD drill and a few CARBIDE BURRS OR GRIND STONES in that drill in well under two hours if you take your time and total expence even if you need to buy that drill and burrs will be well under $50 total

place you old bearings in the block an place the crank in those bearings after coating them with axle grease
slowly rotate the crank and grind a minimum of .060 clearance anywhere the counter weights might touch the block and try NOT to grind more than about .070 any place it touches the block (use a JUMBO size paper clip as a gauge if you don,t have feeler gauges)
next assemble two connecting rods and pistons, one connecting rod and piston for the left one connecting rod and piston for the right, use old bearings coated with axle grease and no rings on the pistons, assemble them to the crank and grind anyplace the rods touch the block, grind minimum of .060 clearance and try NOT to grind more than about .070 any place the rods touche the block (use a LARGE size paper clip as a gauge if you don,t have feeler gauges)move them to the next journal and repeat until all 4 journals and 8 connecting rods clear. now assemble all eight rods and pistons without rings and install them in their correct locations and recheck everything carefully.
next install the cam and index it correctly with the timing chain/gears, rotate the engine slowly and look for clearance issues, between the cam and rods/rod bolts ,you'll need to use a small base cam if there are major clearance issues but in most cases if your cams lift and duration is under about 230 at .05 and .500 lift there should be minor if any clearance issues, usually the outside edge of a rod bolt head is the only area needing a touch up.

once everything clears, wash all the parts VERY CAREFULLY ,TWICE and re-oil then send out to be balanced now you might ask why do that! well, first you'll know its done correctly, and that a correctly built 383 will have a very significant hp and torque advantage over any similar 327 or 350

how much power I'll get.

that of course depends on the combo, cpr, cam,ETC. but you can assume about a 40hp/40 ft lbs increase over a similarly built 350

some of the major factors in your engines potential power, is the volumetric efficiency (how efficiently you fill and empty the cylinders) and the octane of the fuel used, compression ratio and detonation limits,
With detonation, prevention the main factors are
Ignition timing
Quench
FUEL OCTANE
DCR
and cylinder heat level
you�ll be fairly safe if you stay under
8.5:1 dcr at 170f degrees
8.25 dcr at 180f degrees
7.8:1 dcr at 210f degrees
and keep the quench in the .036-.043 range
need a few pictures?
this may help
the common areas are the area near the block oil pan rail where the rod bolts touch
and the lower inner cylinder walls and where the cam lobes touch the rod bolts upper shoulder on some types of rods, now you can,t grind on the cam, but you can grind the edge of the rod bolt and you can use a small base circle cam to give greater clearances
rodboltshittingblock2468.jpg

obvious interference
rodboltinterferenceARPL19tn.jpg

blockclearance2ndattempt2tn.jpg

moreblockclearancing2tn.jpg

rodclearance04.jpg

rodclearance05.jpg

rodclearance06.jpg

QUENCH??
http://www.100megsfree4.com/dictionary/car-dicq.htm

http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/pc-1476 ... 14tin.aspx

quench area:
A zone in the combustion chamber where the piston at top dead center is very close to the cylinder head. Because the piston and cylinder head is cooler than the unburned part of the fuel-air mixture (i.e., end gas), they pull the heat from the end gas. Because the end gas is now cooler, detonation is quenched or reduced. However, the process does form unburned hydrocarbons.

SQUISH
An area in the combustion chamber of some engines where the piston squishes or squeezes part of the fuel-air mixture at the end of the compression stroke. As the piston approaches top dead center, the mixture is pushed out of the squish area and this promotes turbulence, further mixing of the fuel-air mixture and more efficient combustion

run less than about .035 thousands and at high rpm levels the pistons might hit the cylinder heads, run more than about .044 thousands the QUENCH effect of forcing the fuel air mix to the center of the cylinder from the cylinders edge area looses both speed and effectiveness, remember the quench area must be so tight that virtually all the fuel/air mix is forced (squished) into the center area and none is allowed to burn until its squirted into the burn area increasing turbulence and burn efficiency
in theory the much better quench, combined with the shorter more compact area the flame front needs to cover and the far higher turbulence combine to allow more of the pressure to build AFTER the crank passes TDC on the end of compression and beginning of the power stroke

its mostly an advantage in that you get a more even and FASTER burn in the cylinder and less chance of detonation, simply because both the lower time and faster pressure curves favor the ignition flame front vs detonation
look, it takes approximately 40 thousands of a second for the flame from the ignition to cross a 4.25" bore,at low rpms and still takes about 15 milliseconds at high RPM due to the much faster movement of the compressed fuel air mix in the cylinders, lets look at what that means
if the Chevy plug is located 4/5ths of the way to one side that's a time of about 32 thousands for the pressure to build as the flame travels 3.4" in the Chevy but in a compact combustion chamber it could only take the cylinder flame front less than 10-20 thousands of a second to travel across the combustion chamber for a complete burn at low rpms, this of course speeds up as the swirl and turbulence increase with increased engine RPMs but the ratios stay similar. this results in more usable energy WORKING on the piston AFTER IT PASSES TOP DEAD CENTER ON THE POWER STROKE. BUT MODERN WEDGE combustion chambers use increased QUENCH to speed the flame front and lower the burn time combined with a smaller combustion chambers.
the difference may be easier to grasp if you think of the quench area as a significant part of the total combustion chamber volume,that's forcing its potential fuel/air mix into the central combustion chamber as a jet of highly compressed F/A mix, like the differance between lighting a cup of gasoline by simply placing it next to a camp fire vs throwing it violently into a camp fire.
I get asked frequently what will be the (best) combo,well, first thing, Id point out, and that needs to be addressed is there IS NO BEST COMBO, theres only EXCELLENT combos for YOUR application, and YOUR APPLICATION won,t be, exactly the same as everyone elses,or lets say very rarely will be exactly the same as the guy next to you with a similar car.

heres a few examples of threads or links with lots of sub-links and info

http://www.rustpuppy.org/chp/Welcome.html

http://www.compcams.com/Community/Articles/Details.asp?ID=1737510521

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/131229/

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83410

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81956


the MAJOR factors

DISPLACEMENT
basically one thats simple, the bigger the better within reasonable limits imposed by budgets and geometry/clearances, simply because if your building a SBC or SIMILAR engine and you make lets say 1.2hp per cubic inch, a 327-350 will make a significantly lower level of usable power than a 383-396 SBC
WHILE your planing your combos parts selection, be aware that IF your going to be driving the car far more frequently in the lower thru upper mid rpm ranges (2500rpm-5500rpm) on the street than you would with a racer car,combo, you'll be miserable building a combo for max peak hp alone,(where your more likely to concentrate on the 4000rpm-6500rpm plus band with a pure race car,) because you'll rarely be taking the engine into its peak rpm levels, on the street, you'll be far better off building a combo for killer mid and upper mid rpm torque on the street. if you concentrate your efforts into building a wide flat max torque curve in the 2500rpm-5500rpm band and having peak hp fall near 6000rpm you can have an exceptionally responsive and fast car


COMPRESSION RATIO
if you play with differant combos for awhile youll quickly find that as the cpr goes up so does the torque tend to increase, but your limited by the octane rating of the fuel, the heat levels and detonation that tends to increase along with the increased compression.
heads and combustion chamber sizes vary a great deal, your REQUIRED to figure all the factors in your combo out carefully
you'll generally gain about 3% from a point of compression increase, but the return tends to get lower as the CPR increases, so youll get slightly larger fraction of a percentage increase from a 8:1-9:1 increase than a 11:1-12:1 increase and after about 12:1 the gains fall of faster if GAS is the fuel.
with typical pump gas that limits you to about 10:1-11:1 STATIC COMPRESSION,in most cases. dynamic compression ratio should not exceed about 8:1 in most pump gas combos

HEAD FLOW
your port flow and cross sectional area, WILL effect the power the engine combo can potentially make, theres a rough guide to relate head port flow rates to potential power levels
stock head rarely flow more than about 210cfm, even vortec heads rarely exceed 230 cfm, the better aftermarket heads can exceed 270 cfm, but keep in mind head flow rates at lifts greater than your cam lift ALLOW the ports to flow are CLOSE TOO MEANINGLESS IN YOUR COMBO, and the valve passes thru the lower lifts TWICE but only reaches PEAK lift once, its best to concentrate on the flow rates at .300,.400,.500, where the major flow rates occur that effect your power in a street driven cars cam and head selection.
generally the best results will be with heads that flow OVER 240CFM at .500 lift, but matching the other components in the combo is critical.

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm

http://www.malcams.com/legacy/misc/headflow.htm

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/heads1.html

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/runnertorquecalc.html

CLEARANCES/LIMITATIONS
your engine has factors that your forced to work with.
the parts you sellect for a basically hopped up SBC will limit your PISTON SPEEDS to between 4000FPS and 4500FPS, MAX.
your CAM timing and displacement and compression ratio, are intracantly linked,and will determine the RPM range the engine and power curve.
HYDROLIC LIFTERS will limit your peak power to below 6500rpm, and in most cases below 6300rpm.
SOLID LIFTERS will REQUIRE changes in the software that controls any MPFI that uses KNOCK SENSORS
SPRING/BIND,ROCKER RATIOS,PISTON TO VALVE,ETC.
you'll have limitations,due to physical clearances, you obviously MUST keep moving parts from binding or impacting and you'll need access to parts like spark plugs

EXHAUST
IDEALLY you'll install a tuned exhaust that EFFECTIVELY scavenges the cylinders in the rpm range your engine operates in.
significant restrictions in the exhaust system WILL reduce power potential, but once the peak exhaust pressure after the header collectors is limited to UNDER about 1PSI you'll generally have a decent exhaust,but its selection a decent exhaust that SCAVENGES the cylinders effectively
the LENGTH and DIAM. of the collector and primary exhaust pipes on the headers you select , and the restriction past the collectors WILL effect the power curve. on most SBC 302-350,and some 383 engine combos the 1 5/8" long tube headers are about ideal, on some 383-427 engine combos the 1 3/4" have advantages but the length of the primary and collectors WILL effect the results.

CAMS
your CAM SELECTION IS CRITICAL TO SUCCESS
AND yes a ROLLER WILL generally out perform a flat tappet cam.
but its a trade off in value, too upgrade the earlier engines due the the significantly higher costs of the roller cam components in the earlier non-roller blocks, and the fact that hydraulic cams(flat tappet OR roller) generally have valve control issues at or below about 6500rpm
on most EFI C-4 corvettes it requires a compromise,
http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81799

AS A ROUGH GUIDE
cams in the 210 intake duration range work well as a boost over stock
cams in the 220 intake duration range work well as a boost over hot street
cams in the 230 intake duration range work well as a boost over hot street/strip
cams in the 240 intake duration range or up work well as a race engine combo.
but in all cases the compression,ratio, head & exhaust flow and rear gearing and stall must match the combo.

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85898

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84157

read this

http://www.idavette.net/hib/camcon.htm

http://airflowresearch.com/hydra_rev.php

ROLLER ROCKERS AND 1.6:1 RATIO upgrade
roller rockers reduce friction & heat, they generally have a more precise ratio than factory stamped rockers and can generally increase power 10-20hp due to the more precise ratio and lower friction.
swapping to a 1.6:1 ratio from the stock 1.5:1 ratio, USUALLY helps on the milder cams,because it increase lift at the valve,and the rate the valve accelerates it also tends to make valve control at peak rpms slightly more difficult. roller rockers come in two common stud sizes, 3/8" and 7/16" dia. naturally you need to use the size matching your head studs, and the use of a rocker stud girdle is recommended on roller cam applications where the spring pressures are higher or where rpms over about 6500rpm are common

DRIVE TRAIN
your CONVERTER STALL speed, and rear gear ratio, and transmission shift points,
have a HUGE effect on the average RPM range your cars engine operates in, the cars drive ability and how effectively you can use the engine power. this is often overlooked build a killer combo that makes 500hp at 7500rpm and stick it in a car with a 2.57 rear gear and a trans that shifts at 5500rpm and you've created an expensive DOG that's probably miserable to drive.
since the higher average rpms, increase the power potential, and the cams necessary to maximize the performance won,t run well with out increasing the converter speed, you'll quickly find a 2500rpm-3200rpm converter can be a huge help, but must be matched to a 3.54-3.73:1 rear gear to maximize the results. remember you may be limited to under 6300rpm or so with hydraulic lifters, and even with a 3.73:1 rear gear you can reach excessive speeds with an overdrive trans

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64055&highlight=gearing

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86932


QUENCH/SWIRL/TUMBLE
your intake, heads and several other factors will influence the results
READ THESE

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86327&highlight=squish

http://www.gofastnews.com/board/technical-articles/96-turbulence-combustion-dynamics.html

http://www.gofastnews.com/board/technical-articles/169-cylinder-turbulance-combustion-dynamics.html

http://www.gofastnews.com/board/technical-articles/216-turbulance-combustion-dynamics-part-3-a.html

INTAKES
the stock crossfire flows barely 190cfm, the stock TPI intake barely 210cfm.
it will hardly boost your hp potential to install heads and other components that flow 250 plus CFM that's necessary to make decent power levels if you stick to the stock intakes that were designed MOSTLY for good off idle thru 4000rpm torque and good mileage, and try to use them on the better components.
if your looking to boost the power YOUR GOING TO BE REQUIRED to modify or replace your current intake, theres dozens of options, but if you don,t do anything the restrictive stock intakes are going to be a HUGE restriction once you try to exceed stock power levels by a significant margin
MINIRAM
STEALTH RAM
SUPER RAM.
EDELBROCK,
TPIS
ASM
CUSTOM INTAKES
and
EXTENSIVE PORTING all are OPTIONS
(some have far more potential and/or problems than others)

AIR/FUEL RATIOS
youll get the best MILEAGE and lowest EMISSIONS at about a 14.7:1 fuel /air ratio, youll get the best power at about a 12.5:1-12.7:1 fuel/air ratio,
your HP will depend on a constant and well regulated flow of that precise well regulated mix and as the hp increases the size of the injectors and durration of the pulse width will need to keep pace with the increased air flow rates

THERE'S A CALCULATOR at the bottom of this LINK

http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx

IGNITIONS
THERE'S DOZENS ON THE MARKET, MSD is an industry leader, but CRANE, and several others have decent ignitions, even your stock ignition can be improved, but don,t get crazy you can spend huge amounts and not significantly improve on some of the common mid range price systems

MISC.
when selecting heads,headers,intakes ETC.
take the time and effort too CAREFULLY research the compatibility,
some heads have spark plug access that's nearly impossible with some headers, some intakes won,t allow you to use some distributors or ignitions
some heads have ports that miss align or won,t fit with some intakes
some rockers won,t fit some heads
some valve covers won,t clear some valve trains
most cams REQUIRE matched springs
flat tappet cams REQUIRE new lifters
some converters won,t work with some transmissions
some rear gear ratios won,t fit some rear differentials

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81954
YOUR CAM TIMING,COMPRESSION AND REAR GEAR RATIO MUST MATCH
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OK enough trying to educate, heres a decent combo, but it should be used in a reasonably light car (under 3300lbs) its designed to produce just under 470 FLYWHEEL hp with the flat tappet cam and over 500 FLYWHEEL hp with the roller cam,and has a very lopey idle some guys like, and yes it requires 1 3/4 full length headers a low restriction 3" minimum exhaust,and an (X) pipe installed but it sometimes runs best with open headers and usually requires premium octane gas.....yes you need to learn how to tune a carb. its basically an old school muscle car style combo that sounds great at the local hang out, and runs decent at the track, and requires low maintenance on the street

GET THE QUENCH CORRECT
headgasket.jpg


ID suggest your start with these components

cam (if your on a budget)
http://www.iskycams.com/timingchart.php?product_number=201296/6

CAM (if you just HAVE GOT TO GET OVER 500HP
http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show ... vl=2&prt=5
and use this intake with the roller cam
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

USE 1.6:1 ratio roller rockers that match the heads, and check your clearances carefully

lifters (for the flat tappet cam)
http://www.rhoadslifters.com/Pages/OriginalFT.html

lifters (for the roller tappet cam)

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku
AFR 210cc heads 74cc

http://www.airflowresearch.com/210sbc_rh.php

ANOTHER OPTION
http://www.brodix.com/heads/track1.html

yes the heads are expensive,(BUT WORTH IT) heres a lower cost option, but it will cost you some hp, and ID suggest staying with the better heads


http://www.jegs.com/i/Brodix/158/1021001/10002/-1

or
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=TFS-30400003&N=700+115&autoview=sku

intake

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=WND-8501&autoview=sku

carb
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY-0-4779C&N=700+115&autoview=sku

short block

http://www.midwestmotorsportsinc.com/order_mini.php?id=3

http://www.ohiocrank.com/chev_sb_shortb.html
or if the budget allows get a 406-404,434 sbc short block from these guys who do really good quality work,
(tell the guys assembling your short block ,which heads your using so they can install pistons that will produce a 10.5:1-11:1 static compression ratio)

match ideally to a manual transmission and 3.90:1-4.11 rear gear or a 3200-3400 rpm stall converter if its an automatic trans.
 
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=263

you might want to read thru this thread above also, but keep in mind the main idea with that combo was ease of street driving OFF the nitrous and yet still having decent performance, while the combos main design purpose was to produce ,killer massive torque once the 200hp shot of nitrous was employed.
 
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