attitudes sure have changed

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
when I was younger I had several friends who were serious about both building engines and learning darn near anything about racing ,I had several friends and we all spent many nights and weekends over at each others garages doing modifications and fabrication work or changes on each others cars, I remember thinking many times that "what could be better., this guys car I work on paid for the parts and I get to make the changes and see the results (GOOD OR BAD) thus testing the change while working on HIS CAR AND ON HIS DIME!" simply for the time and effort it took to help out, thus I was learning skills, testing parts and seeing both the success and failures without risking my money or my car in the process and thus I learned what worked and what didn,t work worth a crap at little or no risk and without spending more than a few days or hours to learn the new skills or watch the tested results.
I got to test various welders, drill presses, floor jacks, belt sanders, good and crappy jack stands, ETC. and I also got to use tools i could not yet afford like plasma cutters or air ratchets. and I darn sure found out that most of the parts advertized in the magazine articles produced far less spectacular results than the magazines suggested would result, I also very rapidly learned that most bargain basement price tools were not worth the price paid and that as an example there was a good reason too spend two to three times more on a name brand welder vs the the cheap import crap you see advertized at times.
I also saw a great many mistakes being made and learned to think things thru and measure carefully, as an example
I remember one instance where a friend purchased a dana 60 rear differential he got out a a salvage yard and needed it to be 5" narrower, so he measured the rear and sent it off to a local machine shop with instructions to cut 2.5" off each side and buy and install matching 2.5" shorter axles for it,add a new ring and pinion with a different ratio, etc, the bill came to over $1200 back in the 1970s when that was REAL MONEY several, weeks pay checks, what he forgot was that the center-line on the pinion was not necessarily spaced equally from each end of the differential, and as a result his new very expensive , modified rear differential required another $800, in custom mods before it would fit correctly in the BIG BLOCK POWERED VEGA, he was building.
that was an expensive lesson learned but thankfully not on my dime!
but the lesson was learned!
now I find that theres a great many people that don,t seem to have any desire to help out and work on other peoples cars, while they don,t mind experienced help working on their car, they always seem to be "BUSY or CAN,T GET FREE" if someone else needs help, and in the long term they will suffer , they won,t gain the skills and experience and the hobby suffers as a result
yeah, "not enough coffee" and taking the time and effort, too ,
make accurate measurements

and writing them down and sketching out ,
while in the planing stages.. of making or fitting custom parts,
and constantly checking clearances,
before, your start the actual parts fabrication process,

several times, REPEATEDLY in the fabrication process.
tends to make , or allow most of us, to have too go back and re-think ,
and usually modify our original plans,

on the plus site it frequently results in having a bit more time and being a bit more alert, to the other options,
or routes one might take, or ways to accomplish the intended results.
you might be amazed at the number of times a cardboard and duct tape pattern ,
assembled before you start on the actual parts brings into glaring light,
the potential mods and flaws and clearance issues,
that will need to be carefully addressed in the actual components being fabricated.
more than once Ive been in the process of installing an oil cooler,
fabricating an oil pan, or building a custom accessory bracket,
only to find the original design needed to be tweaked to fit,
and function or allow access to some other part, or its mounting bolts.


we ALL tend to remember better and learn more from our own and others ,SCREW UPS than when things go flawlessly...if your not occasionally screwing something up its obvious your not doing much engine rebuilding or many extensive modifications on a steady basis,

EXPERT= REQUIRES YOU TO BE EXTENSIVELY EXPERIENCED IN A CERTAIN FIELD OF ENDEAVOR

EXPERIENCE= VIRTUALLY REQUIRES AN EXTENSIVE LIST OF PAST SCREW UPS, AND LONG HOURS SPENT SOLVING PROBLEMS AND FABRICATING OR FITTING PARTS, AND ACTUALLY READING INSTRUCTIONS ASKING QUESTIONS AND LEARNING NEW SKILLS

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AMEN, the thing i love most about this lifestyle is i learn something new pretty much every day. as techniques and technologies change and my experience continues to grow i think im gonna learn something new every day for a long time to come.
 
There is not much we can do immediate Grumpy.
Not many Real Hotrodders & Racers survived the Great Recession of 2008-2009 & still going on.
Any left are lucky to even have a daily driver & a house & job.
Political I say mostly.....

Few have Fabrication skills today.
I witnessed on the Corvette forums.
Its all bolt ons & spend big $$$.
Been looking at Pontiac forums lately also.
The same. Bolt ons.

Every generation has a few rising stars .
We have Turbo Phil here.

Keep plugging away daily.
What I do.
 
this and the pontiac vids brian posted here got me thinking:

how is it that in the past 20-30 years, cylinder head technology has boomed, oil technology has boomed, fully programmable sequential efi has boomed, and there still isnt a whole lot of information about how to make real serious horsepower? i understand that guys that build race motors gotta make their money, but over the years it seems if you really want to be successful, you have to do ALOT of experimentation all by yourself.

only other real way to gain the knowledge is to pull a "chip foose" and land a job in a very successful shop and learn everything from the experienced people. then take all your insider secrets and run away and steal clients to open up your own place. only to have your employees eventually do the same to you.
 
philly said:
this and the pontiac vids brian posted here got me thinking:

how is it that in the past 20-30 years, cylinder head technology has boomed, oil technology has boomed, fully programmable sequential efi has boomed, and there still isnt a whole lot of information about how to make real serious horsepower? i understand that guys that build race motors gotta make their money, but over the years it seems if you really want to be successful, you have to do ALOT of experimentation all by yourself.

only other real way to gain the knowledge is to pull a "chip foose" and land a job in a very successful shop and learn everything from the experienced people. then take all your insider secrets and run away and steal clients to open up your own place. only to have your employees eventually do the same to you.

You have to find your Market Nitch Phil.
Mine was building Ford 8.8" 5.0 Stang rear diffs for Chicago Joliet racers.
Then the bottom dropped. Recession.
Was hoping to do the same on the Corvette Forums.
Got abused instead many times.
Built 2 C4 dana 44's for others on Corvette forum.
Thats it.
No real serious racers present.
Gave up.

I have the most fun with you guys here Phil & on Digital Corvette Forum.
Help when I can.
 
maybe im just not good enough at that ONE thing yet to really be renowned for it. i dabble in too much stuff, from donks to mustangs to datsuns to muscle cars to vettes but im not a subject matter expert on anything. fortunately i can type fast and know how to use the internet to find what i need quickly
 
philly said:
maybe im just not good enough at that ONE thing yet to really be renowned for it. i dabble in too much stuff, from donks to mustangs to datsuns to muscle cars to vettes but im not a subject matter expert on anything. fortunately i can type fast and know how to use the internet to find what i need quickly
Its survival strategy Phil.
You followed my advice.
Its hard yes I know.
Your very intelligent & street smart. Your time will come. Rise above.
 
thanks man, the struggle is real. just gotta keep fighting the good fight hoping that we come out of the other end of this slump with our conscience and our dignity.
 
God Hates A Quitter Phil.

God Hates A Quitter Brian.....my late friend Bill R. Beat that into my head.
Many times I wanted to give up too.
He was my Mentor. Teacher. Best Bud.
From Grumpy's Generation.
Old School.
 
God Hates A Quitter Phil.

God Hates A Quitter Brian.....my late friend Bill R. Beat that into my head.
Many times I wanted to give up too.
He was my Mentor. Teacher. Best Bud.
From Grumpy's Generation.
Old School.
 
I too grew up that way and love learning was always willing and able to help a friend and had friends that where to busy when it came time for my projects they ended up starting to get charged for my help. But there are still those that are willing to help. At least in my town the mentality is still there guys with off road trucks and deisels. It is alive in the next generation even if it is in the form of you tube video or a post on a forum it is there. Just my .02!!!
 
You know, I dealt with this when I had a business framing houses. Over 19 years I had a good handful of employees and friends who built a home. Being in the business, I spent many nights and weekends, even offering some of my crew to help for free/out of my pocket.
When I decided to sell and build a bit larger home. After 2 weekends of working by myself (because nobody would show up) I had to pay my crew to frame my house with no help from the people I once helped, added another 8-9k to my mortgage right out of the gate.

Things like that have really put a bad taste in my mouth, but I can't stop myself from helping people when given the right opportunity.
I am a member on other forums in my current business, furniture restoration upholstery etc.. and give out any tips I can.. I wish I had more to add to the discussions here about mechanics not because I lack the skill, but rather the knowledge.

I like anyone else learn best from my own mistakes. I taught myself just about anything to do with construction myself from trial and error, spending late hours at home working math on blue prints, drawing my own plans etc... I then taught myself how to use data cad and started drawing plans for a builder I worked for. I passed my knowledge to anyone willing to learn even though 100% of the time they quit with no notice. Start their own business, fail, and come begging for a job.

Same with upholstery, I taught myself to sew in about 10 minutes reupholstered my first chair and sold it for a nice profit. I was hooked after that. Bought me a chandler industrial machine and have been full force since.

Next up will be welding... wish me luck.

I guess my point is, so many people these days just do not want to put in the effort or work to learn. I can tell you, but I am sure you all know, the hours I have in researching since I bought this truck. I am trying to absorb any and everything I can. Reading through my shop manual, and ordered some books many recommend. Not too mention having almost permanent greasy hands when I have a chair to reupholster in WHITE!

I did build an 85 short wide Chevy in my younger days. Did a rear end swap by myself. I gutted my transmission to convert the tail myself, but if you pointed to a piece in that tranny and asked me to name it, chances are, I couldn't. Assembled the motor with a much needed guiding hand. Had to practically threaten my buddy to get his help.
I replaced the clutch in a saturn and it worked perfectly. I surprised myself on that one. I couldn't get my friends to help then either. While typing this, I realized, I may need to find new friends haha.

I really appreciate you guys sharing this knowledge with everyone. It's priceless in my eyes!
 
I really appreciate all the guys who help add info and tips and experience to this site, I well remember how hard it was to get valid and useful answers on how to do almost anything on a car correctly when I started in this hobby and how much time and effort and cash I wasted,dealing with morons and scam artist machine shops so that's one of the major reasons I started and maintain this web site.
most guys just need an experienced mentor to point out simple things like how a throw out bearing clips on a clutch fork or how to measure rod side clearance or install and check a thrust bearing, or use plasti-gauge.
thats what were here for, to help smooth out the little things that you might do wrong that could cause problems if you don,t know the little things that matter.
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