Break in oil

pmj341

New Member
Grumpy
what oil would you recomend on a new build??
I was told to use a 30w for first 500 miles, prelube, change at 100/200/500
miles, then use a good synthetic
What is the proper oil and procedure??
I'm ready to start assy on my Ls2 sleeved 427 stroker, I'm missing a crank pin kit for the Balancer and the rear oil passage barbell restrictor. :D
thanks
Phil
 
I have used a qt of marvel mystery oil and 5-6 quarts of, shell, Havoline or Texaco 10w30 , oil and a can of G.M. EOS. in almost every engine I break in Ive done for 40 years, with no problems, but then I check clearances carefully, use lots of MOLY assembly lube and make sure the valve train geometry's correct before starting the engine.
keep in mind one of the main functions of the break-in process is to allow the moving parts to lap-in or mate to the matching moving surface this process generates metallic dust and extra heat, and the extra zinc and similar wear resistance additives in the E.O.S. and MOLY assembly lube are there to reduce wear, in the process and carry the metallic crud to the oil filter, magnets help trap crud that the filter might miss, remember the rings, rocker, and lifters will seat during the first 3-4 hours at most and 80%-90% of the process is complete in the first hour, so dumping the contaminated oil and filter after about 3-4 hours MAX and replacing it with a good quality filter and oil removes a great deal of crud that can potentially cause the filter to become restricted, the bearing surfaces to be scared or the cam to fail

oil pressure is a measure of resistance to oil flow,and should be carefully watched during the break-in process, as oil temp increases viscosity thins out and resistance to oil flow thru bearing clearances NORMALLY DROPS. that's not a problem, its EXPECTED, the only problem is if it DROPS too low, oil temp/pressure readings when cold usually are significantly higher than oil temp/pressure once its up to temp.(coolant about 210F oil about 190F) if the oil pressure is over 20-25 psi on a newly rebuilt engine that's up to operating temp that's generally fine

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=282

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=799

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=16

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/index.html

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=404&p=496&hilit=rope+adapter#p496

obviously these won,t fit all chevy applications but if you have the room for the longer, spin on filters

The "longer high capacity oil filter" Purolator is L40084.

"longer high capacity oil filter" N.A.P.A: # 1794

"longer high capacity oil filter" ACDelco: PF932

keep in mind a good deal of that analysis shows, is things like
calcium ,Phosphorus ,Zinc that are in the new oil in large amounts as additives, as friction or acid reducers
Boron, Magnesium, Calcium, Barium, Phosphorous, and Zinc: These metals are normally from the lubricating oil additive package. They involve detergents, dispersants, extreme-pressure additives, etc.
NEVER GUESS, DEAL IN PROVEN FACT!
Id get out the plasti-gauge and check clearances, don,t guess , know exactly what your dealing with!
if the clearance falls in spec and the bearings look decent they can be re-used, but its foolish to do so if they look overly dirty, worn or don't have the correct clearances
lots of moly assembly lube and spraying any potential moving contact surface with moly spray (like bearings ,lifters rockers) and liberal use of moly assembly lube during the break-in process helps reduce wear issues
keep in mind ALL engines run on USED BEARINGS AND RINGS,LIFTERS,ROCKERS AND CAMS, simply because the first time you start the engine, all the components are no longer new ,out of the box parts,
yes both rings and bearings and contact surfaces like rockers, cam lobes and lifter bases benefit from a coat of moly spray and moly assembly lube
they are now USED PARTS.. but coating all the friction surfaces with a good slick layer of moly based lubricants to protect them until the flow of warm pressurized oil can form a protective barrier is simply smart insurance, especially because moly embeds into micro surfaces, and forms a very effective secondary protective layer of lubricant.


molysp3.JPG

molysp2.JPG

molysp1.JPG

pre-spraying all bearing and valve train components with a moly based spray, helps embed micro moly lubricants in the metallic surface micro fissures , a good paste lube like cranes assembly lube over the spray surface helps insure a good lubricant surface coating, that is far stronger than just the ZINC and PHOSPHATES in oil
crn-99004.jpg

CAREFULLY
.. reading links and SUB LINKS is almost mandatory on this web site!
if you want all available useful related info

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...earances-and-journal-surface.9955/#post-38385

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bearing-clearances.2726/#post-26440

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-system-mods-that-help.2187/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/can-you-reuse-bearings.5544/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/precision-measuring-tools.1390/#post-68194

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...tion-of-crank-durring-short-blk-assembly.852/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/assembly-lube-summary.6352/#post-68508

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ear-articles-you-need-to-read.282/#post-57371

cambreakin.jpg

Molybdenum is a very hard metal with a number of industrial uses.
It is combined with chromium in steel to make the steel harder and more resistant to bending. Most of the bicycle frames produced today use chromium and molybdenum steel. Because the steel is so much harder, the manufacturers can use less, thereby making the frame lighter.

Molybdenum Disulfide (Moly) has been used for decades in lubricating pastes and greases because it is extremely slippery and forms a protective coating on metal parts.

Moly exists as microscopic hexagonal crystal platelets Several molecules make up one of these platelets. A single molecule of Moly contains two sulfur atoms and one molybdenum atom. Moly platelets are attracted to metal surfaces. This attraction and the force of moving engine parts rubbing across one another provide the necessary thermochemical reaction necessary for Moly to form an overlapping protective coating like armor on all of your engine parts. This protective armor coating has a number of properties that are very beneficial for your engine.

squeeze4.png


The Moly platelets that make up the protective layers on your engine surfaces slide across one another very easily. Instead of metal rubbing against metal, you have Moly platelets moving across one another protecting and lubricating the metal engine parts.

This coating effectively fills in the microscopic pores that cover the surface of all engine parts, making them smoother. This feature is important in providing an effective seal on the combustion chamber. By filling in the craters and pores Moly improves this seal allowing for more efficient combustion and engine performance.
nosqueeze.jpeg

This overlapping coating of Moly also gives protection against loading (perpendicular) forces. These forces occur on the bearings, and lifters. The high pressures that occur between these moving parts tend to squeeze normal lubricants out.



Eventually, there is metal to metal contact, which damages these moving parts and creates large amounts of heat. Fortunately, this is not the case with some lubricants.The layer of moly that forms on these moving surfaces can withstand pressures of 500,000 psi, without being squeezed out.

Engineers and scientists have tried for years to use Moly in motor oils but they had been unsuccessful because they could not find a way to keep Moly in suspension. Once Moly was put into suspension it would gradually settle out. It was easy to see it come out of suspension because a black sludge would collect on the bottom of the oil containers. In engines it would settle to the bottom of the crankcase or clog oil pathways and filters.

Engineers have overcome these obstacles. They have developed a process that keeps Moly in suspension and isn’t filtered out. Since that time theproduct has undergone extensive independent testing in labs and in the field for many years to insure that the product stands up to the rigorous needs of today’s engines. With the plating action of Moly reducing friction which reduces heat, this helps keep rings free from carbon buildup, prevents blow-by, decreases emission, and extends oil life.

ctrp_0807_03_z+flat_tappet_camshaft+engine_lubricants.jpg


you might find these threads interesting

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=282

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2727&p=7078&hilit=filters#p7078

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2080&p=5568&hilit=+filters#p5568

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2102&p=5665&hilit=+filters#p5665

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/index.php ... &Itemid=56

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

http://micapeak.com/info/oiled.html

http://mcgeerf.tripod.com/americansynth ... /id17.html
 
Last edited by a moderator:
there's not a thing wrong with almost any decent oil with a high concentration of wear additives for the break-in process, IM sure that royal purple oil would do its job just as designed
use logic, there's millions of new engines getting broken in, with standard 10w30 oils, just select one with a high concentration of wear additives (thats currently mostly the diesel rated oil, look at the chart posted below)
If you want to use that oil , it will be fine, your going to be dumping the break-in oil and filter in the first 3-4 hours of run time at most if your doing your best to prevent wear,
(THE BREAK-IN PROCESS,IS WHERE A NEW ENGINES PARTS MOVING SURFACES LAP INTO A COMPATIBLE,MATCHING SURFACE FINNISH)
the standard 10w 30 oils either synthetic or mineral base can be used, the synthetics have a reputation for taking longer for the components to seat correctly but the new corvettes are shipped full of synthetic oil so its hardly likely the manufacturer would do that if it would become a major problem.
OBVIOUSLY you need to use a good moly assembly lube on the bearings and cam and lifters in a flat tappet engine,
if you want to pay extra for a couple of quarts of oil and a filter that you should run, drain and replace within a few hundred miles use be my guest, but the standard HAVOLINE,VALVOLINE,TEXACO,SHELL, ETC 10w30 oil and a qt of MARVEL MYSTERY OIL and a CAN OF G.M. E. O.S. and a new oil filter, has worked just fine for hundreds of engines IVE built or seen broken in, now IN sure the break-in oil has more friction reducers added, like zinc, & phosphorus but that's a double edge sword, in that it will help cam lobe life but slow rings seating to the cylinder walls, and the E.O.S. has that in large amounts, the MARVEL MYSTERY OIL has solvents and detergents to remove crud quickly,if your running a flat tappet cam you should be running a oil with those in the formula like most diesel oils and the MOLY assembly lube you use on the cam and lifters has other friction reducers
Ive almost always used about 90% of a good brand of synthetic oil and 10% marvel mystery oil in my engines for MANY years, I generally change both the oil and oil filters in the 5000-7000 mile range and they always come apart during inspections looking like new, what many guys don,t realize is that M.M.O. is just a high quality light oil with a high percentage of solvents and detergents, its not an oil additive in the common sense of the word, just an oil that tends to dissolve crud effectively.
I usually drain the engines break-in oil for the first time after I break in a cam after about 3-6 hours of driving , because by that time the cam lube and any metallic trash is at least in theory trapped in the oil filter , I generally throw on a new oil filter and fill the cars engine with something like SHELL 10w30 , the $20-$30 in fresh oil being "WASTED" is dirt cheap insurance if it allows you to remove potentially destructive metallic debris, and run the engine that way for at least 300-1000 miles and change oil again, the idea is to drain and remove as much metallic dust that is generated during the rings and lifters lapping in process as possible, then from that time on, change oil and filter every 5000-7000 miles
BTW a few magnets, placed in the oil pan sump to trap metallic dust mixed in the oil is a big advantage, changing the oil and oil filter during the first 300 miles helps for the long engine life.

you really need to read thru these threads, and the sub linked info provided carefully, look at the oil heat ranges, zinc content and what moly assembly lube does to protect moving surfaces, what filters work, etc.

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=282&hilit=+break

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/index.php ... &Itemid=62

http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilte ... study.html

http://www.hotrod.com/pitstop/hrdp_0702 ... index.html

http://micapeak.com/info/oiled.html

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=799&p=2048&hilit=+procedure#p2048

IT should be obvious that you'll need to pre-prime the blocks oil passages and adjust the rockers so oil flows from the rockers with the engine being pre-primed with a priming tool being used BEFORE trying to start any engine with a new cam to insure oil flow begins instantly on the engines start-up,you WON,T get oil to all lifters equally unless the engines crank & cam are spinning,(so during testing spin the engine slowly with a breaker bar or ratchet), because the oil passages feeding the lifters aligns differently at different lifts,your oil leak at the distributor base is normal, but the clearances and flow may be excessive, with a priming tool, some are not nearly to spec. ID measure the diam. of the oil pump primer and then measure the distributor base, Id bet the distributor base is larger and fits better, which reduces the potential for leakage.
SBCprimer.jpg

those bottom two bands form a wall on the oil passage, some guys cut a rounded grove and install an O-RING so the upper band seals too the block, you don,t want to do that to the lower band simply because that's the oil flow source to the distributor /cam gear
20 psi is about normal for your typical 3/8 drill,max pressure is not nearly as important as checking flow, and for leaks where there should not be leaks, with an engine primer tool,Ive brazed a socket to the top of my oil pump primer and use the 1/2" drive air ratchet to drive it, it won,t heat up and burn up like a electric drill will.
don,t get alarmed if you get zero pressure or flow for a few seconds,(the oil filter and passages need to fill first) that's one reason WHY your pre-priming, to get oil flow to the bearings instantly on start up , you don,t want them running without oil flow if you can prevent it even for 20 seconds
a 1/2" drive air ratchet

Hu5L.jpg



will not heat up like an electric drill if your using either to spin the pre-lube tool.

http://www.amazon.com/Chicago-Pneumatic ... B000NOX2OY


READ THIS THREAD
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=985&p=3802#p3802

one common problem I see many guys go thru is the result of not understanding what visual clues, or obvious symptoms indicate, when they see them.
when your breaking in a new engine or cam, one common problem indicator is the headers running excessively hot
EXAMPLE
redheaders.jpg


btw notice the front header tube seems to be a bit cooler and each header tube as you move to the rear looks a bit hotter, thats because the engine compartment air flow cools the headers less effectively as its heated as it moves from the radiator rear ward

the picture above is commonly the result of having Your ignition timing too retarded for the 2500rpm-3500rpm your supposed to be lapping a new cam in at for the first few minutes,or the ignition advance curve rpm is to slow with a light load. Under a light load combustion is a slower process. Some of the combustion is still taking place after the exhaust valve opens which will make the headers glow.
if your running a LEAN due to either jetting, tuning issues or a large vacuum leak....the overly lean fuel/air mix tends to raise the exhaust temps, obviously an IR temp gun can be very useful in spotting this condition early, but its even more useful because it can easily tell you if only one or two headers are running significantly hotter, usually indicating a vacuum leak or tuning issue rather than ignition timing where all the header tubes tend to run hot.
now obviously you should have verified the correct oil and coolant levels and verified your ignition timing and advance and firing order before starting it , or seeing the headers glow before letting the engine run very long
 
Thanks Grumpy!

Also went through this thread for help,
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1334

As I'm going to be breaking my first engine soon, I needed to catch up on a solid procedure and oil mix to use.

It was originally recommended to me (after break in) to stick with a 20w50 oil, which I was surprised to hear.
 
I know some of you gentlemen would rather dig your own eyes out of your own face with a rusty fork than read links, sub-links and posted info, but amazingly there useful info , in them, like tools that let you detect cam wear early, when to swap filters
what lubes to use,how to adjust and clearance valve trains, use of magnets to trap metallic crud and limit damage, which filters to use, etc.

the total amount of assembly lube you put on the cam and rotating assembly rarely can exceed 4 OZ and that EASILY fits into an oil filter, so if your getting more crud than the first oil filter traps in the first 30 minutes during the engine brake-in process, logic says its COMING from someplace and a quick look at the filter internals with the tool linked above and the magnets you should have installed should give you a good idea as to the source

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM-900510&N=700+115&autoview=sku

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...es-related-to-zddp-detergent.4793/#post-13022
sum-900510.jpg



Mobile1Oil-1.jpg

Mobile1Oil-2.jpg

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=799&p=1161#p1161

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=939&p=1582&hilit=+filter+tool#p1582

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=282


http://www.summitracing.com/search/?keyword=break in ratio rockers&dds=1


there ARE reduced ratio roller rockers designed to significantly lower the lifter to lobe pressures during the cam break-in process, and its a whole lot easier to swap rockers during the break-in process than swap to lower pressure springs or remove inner springs from dual spring valve trains during the break in process
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back
Top