Ill freely admit Im much more of an ELK hunter than a deer hunter and I'm sure that's effected the way I tend to select hunting rifles and loads
Ive seen used or personally used everything from a 257 Roberts to a 458 Winchester on ELK and after 40 years of watching the results its fairly clear that its the guy using the rifle as much as the rifle and caliber used that determines your results, yet its also rather obvious that the 25 calibers just don,t have the same penetration as the larger 270 and larger calibers in most cases, and while they work in skilled hands Id strongly suggest sticking to a 270win or larger caliber for ELK.
now most guys spend a great deal of time discussing the rifle calibers they select and not much time discussing the bullets they use, this in my opinion is understandable but about backwards, simply because its the bullet that does all the work on the games anatomy and while the rifle and cartridge will have a major effect on the bullets initial velocity potential ,the range will also effect its impact velocity.
personally I find the 338-375 caliber range bullets about ideal, but some of my freinds prefer the 7mm-30 caliber range for its higher velocity potential and lower recoil.
you don,t need a magnum to hunt elk but you do need to know elk anatomy and your rifles trajectory and energy limitations.
a 7mm mauser,270 winchester or 280 rem , or 308 win or 30/06 will work if your a decent shot.
velocities higher than about 3000fps seldom do much except increase the chances of bullet failure, in my experience. and are seldom needed because in 40 plus years Ive seen less than 5 elk out at 350 plus yard in hunting conditions
or put a different way, for an example, you may push a 175 grain hornady 7mm bullet a good deal faster with a 7mm Remington mag than you could push the same bullet from a 7mm Mauser , but as the range increases velocity drops and the impact velocity of the bullet from that 7 mm Remington mag will at some range drop to the same velocity as the 7mm Mauser could push it, so at any range beyond that point the bullet would be traveling from that point on at a similar trajectory.
obviously closer ranges tend to increase impact velocity's, but a bullet should both penetrate and expand over reliably over at least a 700-900fps impact range in my opinion.
Ive seen the bullet in question used on elk several times in both the 7mm Mauser and the 7mm Remington mag and its preformed rather well in both, so it obviously has a reasonably wide range of velocity's that it will both expand and penetrate well in.
THATS not been true of some bullets Ive seen used and its been true of several others. when I say a bullet fails in most cases its lost its jacket, or turned to glitter on impact, that doesn,t necessarily indicate the bullet failed to kill, or that it was not accurate because in many cases the bullets that are exceptionally accurate have thin fragile jackets making them excellent for targets but not ideal on ELK.
the bullets Ive seen work well consistently are listed below, by work, I mean they stayed together and mushroomed with out fragmenting or passed thru and exited but left a trail of internal damage
speer 100 grain 25 cal
speer 150 grain 270 cal
hornady 175 grain 7mm
hornady 190 grain 30 cal
speer 200 grain 30 cal
hornady 225 grain 338 cal
hornady 250 grain 338 cal
speer 250 grain 338 cal.
speer 250 grain 358 cal
hornady 300 grain 375 cal
remington 405 grain 458 cal.
bullets Ive seen fail, now by fail I mean come apart or fragment, these hits still proved fatal
hornady 130 grain 270 cal
speer 150 grain 30 cal
sierra 168 grain 30 cal
sierra 150 grain 30 cal
sierra 250 grain 338 cal
speer 200 grain .338 cal
all but a few of the elk shot by almost anyone hunting out of our elk camp have used these,bullets, I know because Ive been loading most of the ammo we used for decades
25 cal 120 grain remintons
270 cal, 150 grain speer hot core
30 cal, 200 grain speer hot core
338 cal 250 grain hornady
35 cal 250 grain speer hot core
375 cal 270 grain hornady
44 cal lyman 300 grain cast
45 cal, 405 remington soft points
nothing exotic, but theres been lots of dead elk, and darn few required a second shot, but keep in mind where I hunt ranges seldom exceed 250 yards
actual picture of the area we hunted most years
THIS IS A PICTURE OF THE AREA I HUNT FREQUENTLY FOR ELK
LOWER CANYON
upper canyon
and most of the old geezers I hunt with are decent shots, you don,t need exotic you just need to know elk anatomy and place shots well
http://stevespages.com/jpg/bestbullet.jpg
from a pragmatic view, I'm 100% sure there have been many dozens of elk killed with smaller 22 and 6mm rifles but that does not in my experience make them nearly ideal.
I personally have seen several elk killed very effectively with a 257 roberts, yet I would say after helping dress out those elk, and examining the internal damage that the 257 roberts is on the lower edge of the effective caliber range.
I hunt with a group of guys and most years theres 4-7 guys in camp and 3-4 deer or elk killed almost every year, this allows me to eventually see rather obvious trends in what results you can expect , and in my opinion after 45 plus years of dressing out game Id suggest a 270 win,308 win, or 7mm 08 loaded with a premium bullet is about the smallest calibers I see consistently put down game quickly and effectively
Ive seen used or personally used everything from a 257 Roberts to a 458 Winchester on ELK and after 40 years of watching the results its fairly clear that its the guy using the rifle as much as the rifle and caliber used that determines your results, yet its also rather obvious that the 25 calibers just don,t have the same penetration as the larger 270 and larger calibers in most cases, and while they work in skilled hands Id strongly suggest sticking to a 270win or larger caliber for ELK.
now most guys spend a great deal of time discussing the rifle calibers they select and not much time discussing the bullets they use, this in my opinion is understandable but about backwards, simply because its the bullet that does all the work on the games anatomy and while the rifle and cartridge will have a major effect on the bullets initial velocity potential ,the range will also effect its impact velocity.
personally I find the 338-375 caliber range bullets about ideal, but some of my freinds prefer the 7mm-30 caliber range for its higher velocity potential and lower recoil.
you don,t need a magnum to hunt elk but you do need to know elk anatomy and your rifles trajectory and energy limitations.
a 7mm mauser,270 winchester or 280 rem , or 308 win or 30/06 will work if your a decent shot.
velocities higher than about 3000fps seldom do much except increase the chances of bullet failure, in my experience. and are seldom needed because in 40 plus years Ive seen less than 5 elk out at 350 plus yard in hunting conditions
or put a different way, for an example, you may push a 175 grain hornady 7mm bullet a good deal faster with a 7mm Remington mag than you could push the same bullet from a 7mm Mauser , but as the range increases velocity drops and the impact velocity of the bullet from that 7 mm Remington mag will at some range drop to the same velocity as the 7mm Mauser could push it, so at any range beyond that point the bullet would be traveling from that point on at a similar trajectory.
obviously closer ranges tend to increase impact velocity's, but a bullet should both penetrate and expand over reliably over at least a 700-900fps impact range in my opinion.
Ive seen the bullet in question used on elk several times in both the 7mm Mauser and the 7mm Remington mag and its preformed rather well in both, so it obviously has a reasonably wide range of velocity's that it will both expand and penetrate well in.
THATS not been true of some bullets Ive seen used and its been true of several others. when I say a bullet fails in most cases its lost its jacket, or turned to glitter on impact, that doesn,t necessarily indicate the bullet failed to kill, or that it was not accurate because in many cases the bullets that are exceptionally accurate have thin fragile jackets making them excellent for targets but not ideal on ELK.
the bullets Ive seen work well consistently are listed below, by work, I mean they stayed together and mushroomed with out fragmenting or passed thru and exited but left a trail of internal damage
speer 100 grain 25 cal
speer 150 grain 270 cal
hornady 175 grain 7mm
hornady 190 grain 30 cal
speer 200 grain 30 cal
hornady 225 grain 338 cal
hornady 250 grain 338 cal
speer 250 grain 338 cal.
speer 250 grain 358 cal
hornady 300 grain 375 cal
remington 405 grain 458 cal.
bullets Ive seen fail, now by fail I mean come apart or fragment, these hits still proved fatal
hornady 130 grain 270 cal
speer 150 grain 30 cal
sierra 168 grain 30 cal
sierra 150 grain 30 cal
sierra 250 grain 338 cal
speer 200 grain .338 cal
all but a few of the elk shot by almost anyone hunting out of our elk camp have used these,bullets, I know because Ive been loading most of the ammo we used for decades
25 cal 120 grain remintons
270 cal, 150 grain speer hot core
30 cal, 200 grain speer hot core
338 cal 250 grain hornady
35 cal 250 grain speer hot core
375 cal 270 grain hornady
44 cal lyman 300 grain cast
45 cal, 405 remington soft points
nothing exotic, but theres been lots of dead elk, and darn few required a second shot, but keep in mind where I hunt ranges seldom exceed 250 yards
actual picture of the area we hunted most years
THIS IS A PICTURE OF THE AREA I HUNT FREQUENTLY FOR ELK
LOWER CANYON
upper canyon
and most of the old geezers I hunt with are decent shots, you don,t need exotic you just need to know elk anatomy and place shots well
http://stevespages.com/jpg/bestbullet.jpg
from a pragmatic view, I'm 100% sure there have been many dozens of elk killed with smaller 22 and 6mm rifles but that does not in my experience make them nearly ideal.
I personally have seen several elk killed very effectively with a 257 roberts, yet I would say after helping dress out those elk, and examining the internal damage that the 257 roberts is on the lower edge of the effective caliber range.
I hunt with a group of guys and most years theres 4-7 guys in camp and 3-4 deer or elk killed almost every year, this allows me to eventually see rather obvious trends in what results you can expect , and in my opinion after 45 plus years of dressing out game Id suggest a 270 win,308 win, or 7mm 08 loaded with a premium bullet is about the smallest calibers I see consistently put down game quickly and effectively