if you have more than a couple firearms chances are excellent that you should have a safe place to store them away from kids, and a safe place to limit or deny access by many amateur burglars, a good safe is a great start but a layered approach with an alarm system ,makes a great deal of sense.
and just like when building a shop/garage try very hard to buy a safe that has a good deal larger room/capacity or larger size than you initially think, you'll need I don't know a single person that has not eventually regreted buying a smaller than what would have been the ideal safe!
there is ALWAYS a compromise, made between quality and price
I learned that long ago,
“Quality is like buying oats: like:. If you want nice, clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price.
However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse ...
that comes a little cheaper.”
do some detailed research and don't waste money on a cheap and nearly useless "security closet"
all entrances under camera surveillance, doors with good locks, windows with hurricane rated glass and alarm contacts, motion detectors and a battery back-up so cutting phone lines and power to a home does not disable the alarm systems ability to call for outside law enforcement, helps
if your serious about your firearms and valuables security you'll use a multi layered approach to security and do some research into what safe you need
most "gun safes" will provide basic security but they are hardly the best choice if your serious, and its rather easy to accumulate a great many firearms over a few decades that both cost a great deal originally and those that can,t easily be replaced as many are no longer in production decades later, and most home owner insurance does not cover fire arms collections unless a specific addition rider is listed.
http://www.burglarbomb.com/ an option to flood the room with pepper spray the alarm system dispenses, might be one option
most home robbery's are committed by kids, drug addicts or professional thieves, and they generally want to take as little times as possible to limit risk of getting caught, almost any safe thats securely bolted to the floor and at least one wall will prevent the local kids and drug users from accessing the contents but, most cheap gun safes are easily opened by professionals,
but you can greatly reduce your risk and their chances of success with careful planing, and careful site prep and your choice of safe.
first DON,T ADVERTISE, to friends or acquaintances, that you own firearms or other valuables, a great many house burglary,s are the result of too much info getting to the wrong ears.
most "GUN SAFES" are rather poorly made with thin sheet metal walls and have limited protection potential compared to most commercial safes, you can generally buy a used commercial safe rated for at least 30 minutes TL30 or better for the same cost as a new gun safe , an inch thick door on a gun safe doesn,t mean squat if the side armor is a pitiful 10ga-12ga or even, 1/8" thick, ID also point out you need a LAYERED alarm system with a cell phone dialer, and battery back-up so cutting phone lines and power does not stop the alarm from contacting police.
TAKE THE TIME AND EFFORT TO READ THE LINKED INFO BELOW
obviously if the crooks don,t know about the safe thats a huge advantage! better locks, on outside doors, requiring a key from both sides, expanded steel screen over door windows, a monitored alarm,with cameras, video surveillance with a recorder OFF SITE and BOLTING the safe, in your office if you have one, to the concrete floor or joists would help, as would a locked fence and a couple large dogs, yeah its a p.i.t.a. but until its legal to shoot thieves caught in the act with zero legal issues, and they start giving thieves a MANDATORY first time sentence in jail, thats likely to be required
its not that easy! to force a quality security safe like a typical gun safe, decent security safes have an INNER and OUTER steel box , and the steels at least 1/4" thick MINIMUM, usually a good deal thicker with several inches of special formula concrete poured between the inner and outer walls, that contains super hard metallic material, and structural re-bar in the slurry that transfers heat and makes cutting very difficult or nearly impossible, plus adds significant weight, making moving the safe without major equipment rather difficult especially if its bolted internally to the concrete slab and at least one concrete wall, and with a decent security system theres a silent alarm/hostage alert system code, that's optionally activated without on premises indicators
next if your going to buy a decent gun safe don,t scrimp and buy cheap junk, get a decent safe and BOLT it to both an outside solid wall and the floor to make access much more difficult.
any safe should be firmly bolted to a solid floor and if possible one or two walls
http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/articles/myths-about-gun-safe-theft-protection/2/#ul-security-ratings
http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/buyers-guide/best-gun-safe/
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... /8837452/1
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... _ev#UNREAD
read the test results, and test methods, but heres the three best products, which offered noticeably longer protection from rust forming, amazingly of the 46 products tested many were almost worthless at providing corrosion protection, even some common, big name products
http://www.wd40specialist.com/products/ ... inhibitor/
http://www.blockcorrosion.com/12-oz-aerosol-Can-Corrosion-Block_c2.htm
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/interesting-firearms-rust-prevention.10343/
btw theres bound too be guys that had firearms in gun safes, that were submerged in raising water during local flooding, after several recent hurricane s like ANDREW,WILMA,SANDY,KATRINA,HARVEY,
that will need to clean and oil and hopefully prevent or at least reduce water damage.
(I hope you store guns with a good coat of oil on all internal and external,surfaces, the and occasionally respray and clean bores and exterior,metal surfaces)
a good quality safe has rubber, or synthetic door gasket , air tight seals on the door and the weight of water against the safe door should in theory help seal the door preventing water entering the safe,
and yes I'm 100% sure most of them failed to completely seal and remain 100% water tight if the safe was under water.
I would get the safe open as soon as you can and disassemble and carefully clean every firearm as soon as you can and take clear detailed pictures of every gun for insurance estimates
(IDEALLY YOU DID HAVE HOME OWNERS FIREARMS gun INSURANCE that covers FIRE THEFT AND FLOOD DAMAGE , DIDN,T YOU???, and you read and fully understand the exceptions and exclusions so if you need to file any claims so they can,t deny coverage, ) if you did not it might be a good reason to buy some in the future along with a high quality replacement water and air tight replacement gun safe and for you too use a water tight sealant on and bolt holes in the safe you used to add security bolts into the floor slab, and its always a good idea to use a skirt of expanding water proof foam around the safe's base perimeter, as a primary moisture barrier.
Id also point out that properly applying 3" wide , plastic backed,water proof duct tape over the door seams is a well documented way to prevent or at least greatly reduce water entering a safe
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/interesting-firearms-rust-prevention.10343/
https://collectinsure.com/what-we-insure/guns-knives-accessories?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Collectibles Keywords - Insurance Feb 2016&utm_term=+nra +gun +insurance&utm_content=Gun NRA
WATCH VIDEOS
https://snt150.mail.live.com/?tid=cmzIj ... id=flinbox
http://www.vaultandsafe.com/Bolting_dow ... safe.shtml
http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/buyers-guide/best-gun-safe/
http://www.comparison411.com/search.php ... 7Aod9g0Ajg
FOUR OF THE 4 3/4"-6" long 5/8" diam expansion bolts with a couple large fender washers, should be used, one in each corner on a concrete floor
correctly installed each bolt will require more than 3000lbs of pull force to shear
deal with a REAL safe company not some sporting goods store, a real safe company will have a fork lift or other method of moving a 4000-6000lb safe, get a TL30 or TL 60 rated safe! and while they may charge to install the safe youll know its been done correctly, btw what damn good does it to to have a 1" thick steel door that locks into a solid frame on a "GUN SAFE" if its on a 10 GA safe body?, and any moron with a portable plazma cutter or air chisel, or axe and or 5-6 ft pry bar, can open a 10 ga steel safe body in minutes, 10 ga is just a bit over 1/8" thick
http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/scale ... metal.html
heres what a fire axe can do to a cheap gun safe with sheet metal body
watch these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltK-bDbA ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwpZ2I_jZv4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAyp9UpBvGE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaSLvBmDfqc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6ewI-Wc5Yg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCnsDZ4l2iA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKGB9OchebU
http://www.graffundersafes.com/products/vault.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2EyFNCA ... re=related
http://www.libertysafe.com/
http://www.empiresafe.com/143/ism_super ... y_trtl30x6
http://www.sportsmansteelsafes.com/crown_series.htm
http://www.diamondbackgunsafes.com/
http://www.tractorsupply.com/safes/cann ... ty-3910204
you usually get what you pay for , but some fairly cheap safes are fairly decent values
most large citys have a dealer in USED commercial safes that can get you a decent deal on a used safe that will cost less and give you a better safe for the money spent, and you can have it professionally installed or at least get some good advice on how to go about it.
a decent commercial safe is a totally different class of safe from the typical gun safe
a typical gun safe weights in at 600-1500lbs, and have, 10ga-1/8" thick walls only the better brands high end designs have a minimum of 1/4"-3/8" walls, good versions are 1/2"-1" thick , some have two walls separated by inches of re=enforced concrete and re-bar a decent security safe can weight 4000-6000lbs,and have 3"-5" thick walls composed of steel surface and concrete filled walls and a 1" or thicker door backed with several more inches of layered bracing, and USED commercial safes cost, is frequently similar to a new gun safe.
http://www.graffundersafes.com/products/vault.html
http://www.lackasafe.com/products/high- ... rity-safes
http://burglarbomb.com/
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html
http://www.stronggunsafes.com/gun-safe- ... guide.html
it should be obvious that if you bolt a safe into the back corner of a small closet , and used quality locking bolts to bolt it into a solid floor,you limit easy access with tools, naturally the type of floor and safe will dictate the anchoring methods required but making access to the safe restricted improves security.
it should also be obvious that having a QUALITY alarm system,on your home (REDUNDANT ALARM SYSTEMS ARE OBVIOUSLY EVEN BETTER)
Word of caution for you guys using cell network to transmit security data.
A cheap ass ebay cell jammer makes your shit worthless. Have a hardline to a batt backup pc running a google phone number as backup.
ESPECIALLY THOSE that, are monitored 24/7/365 and having a system that dials police if activated on the house key pad that can,t be disabled by cutting phone lines, or cutting power to the house,equipped with an exceedingly loud alarm bell or siren, that's hard to locate or disable is MANDATORY, as is a hostage/silent alarm code activation option
Don,t think that the cost of a decent safe is wasted money
your very unlikely to buy a decent safe and not be able to sell it several years later for near what you paid for it or more, and you might be astounded at what a few common firearms would cost to replace.
one of my neighbors had two deer rifles he purchased in the 1970s for less than $200 each, stolen from his home while he was on vacation, too replace them now with identical rifles cost him almost $1900
his wife lost some jewelry and was shocked to find its replacement cost was easily 20 times what she originally paid for it in the 1960s
and just like when building a shop/garage try very hard to buy a safe that has a good deal larger room/capacity or larger size than you initially think, you'll need I don't know a single person that has not eventually regreted buying a smaller than what would have been the ideal safe!
there is ALWAYS a compromise, made between quality and price
I learned that long ago,
“Quality is like buying oats: like:. If you want nice, clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price.
However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse ...
that comes a little cheaper.”
do some detailed research and don't waste money on a cheap and nearly useless "security closet"
all entrances under camera surveillance, doors with good locks, windows with hurricane rated glass and alarm contacts, motion detectors and a battery back-up so cutting phone lines and power to a home does not disable the alarm systems ability to call for outside law enforcement, helps
if your serious about your firearms and valuables security you'll use a multi layered approach to security and do some research into what safe you need
most "gun safes" will provide basic security but they are hardly the best choice if your serious, and its rather easy to accumulate a great many firearms over a few decades that both cost a great deal originally and those that can,t easily be replaced as many are no longer in production decades later, and most home owner insurance does not cover fire arms collections unless a specific addition rider is listed.
http://www.burglarbomb.com/ an option to flood the room with pepper spray the alarm system dispenses, might be one option
Get a LOUD alarm. I mean LOUD ENOUGH that you can't stand to be any where near it-EAR DRUM BREAKING LOUD . You want them out of there before they can take anything.
most home robbery's are committed by kids, drug addicts or professional thieves, and they generally want to take as little times as possible to limit risk of getting caught, almost any safe thats securely bolted to the floor and at least one wall will prevent the local kids and drug users from accessing the contents but, most cheap gun safes are easily opened by professionals,
but you can greatly reduce your risk and their chances of success with careful planing, and careful site prep and your choice of safe.
first DON,T ADVERTISE, to friends or acquaintances, that you own firearms or other valuables, a great many house burglary,s are the result of too much info getting to the wrong ears.
most "GUN SAFES" are rather poorly made with thin sheet metal walls and have limited protection potential compared to most commercial safes, you can generally buy a used commercial safe rated for at least 30 minutes TL30 or better for the same cost as a new gun safe , an inch thick door on a gun safe doesn,t mean squat if the side armor is a pitiful 10ga-12ga or even, 1/8" thick, ID also point out you need a LAYERED alarm system with a cell phone dialer, and battery back-up so cutting phone lines and power does not stop the alarm from contacting police.
TAKE THE TIME AND EFFORT TO READ THE LINKED INFO BELOW
obviously if the crooks don,t know about the safe thats a huge advantage! better locks, on outside doors, requiring a key from both sides, expanded steel screen over door windows, a monitored alarm,with cameras, video surveillance with a recorder OFF SITE and BOLTING the safe, in your office if you have one, to the concrete floor or joists would help, as would a locked fence and a couple large dogs, yeah its a p.i.t.a. but until its legal to shoot thieves caught in the act with zero legal issues, and they start giving thieves a MANDATORY first time sentence in jail, thats likely to be required
its not that easy! to force a quality security safe like a typical gun safe, decent security safes have an INNER and OUTER steel box , and the steels at least 1/4" thick MINIMUM, usually a good deal thicker with several inches of special formula concrete poured between the inner and outer walls, that contains super hard metallic material, and structural re-bar in the slurry that transfers heat and makes cutting very difficult or nearly impossible, plus adds significant weight, making moving the safe without major equipment rather difficult especially if its bolted internally to the concrete slab and at least one concrete wall, and with a decent security system theres a silent alarm/hostage alert system code, that's optionally activated without on premises indicators
next if your going to buy a decent gun safe don,t scrimp and buy cheap junk, get a decent safe and BOLT it to both an outside solid wall and the floor to make access much more difficult.
any safe should be firmly bolted to a solid floor and if possible one or two walls
http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/articles/myths-about-gun-safe-theft-protection/2/#ul-security-ratings
http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/buyers-guide/best-gun-safe/
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... /8837452/1
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... _ev#UNREAD
read the test results, and test methods, but heres the three best products, which offered noticeably longer protection from rust forming, amazingly of the 46 products tested many were almost worthless at providing corrosion protection, even some common, big name products
http://www.wd40specialist.com/products/ ... inhibitor/
http://www.blockcorrosion.com/12-oz-aerosol-Can-Corrosion-Block_c2.htm
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/interesting-firearms-rust-prevention.10343/
btw theres bound too be guys that had firearms in gun safes, that were submerged in raising water during local flooding, after several recent hurricane s like ANDREW,WILMA,SANDY,KATRINA,HARVEY,
that will need to clean and oil and hopefully prevent or at least reduce water damage.
(I hope you store guns with a good coat of oil on all internal and external,surfaces, the and occasionally respray and clean bores and exterior,metal surfaces)
a good quality safe has rubber, or synthetic door gasket , air tight seals on the door and the weight of water against the safe door should in theory help seal the door preventing water entering the safe,
and yes I'm 100% sure most of them failed to completely seal and remain 100% water tight if the safe was under water.
I would get the safe open as soon as you can and disassemble and carefully clean every firearm as soon as you can and take clear detailed pictures of every gun for insurance estimates
(IDEALLY YOU DID HAVE HOME OWNERS FIREARMS gun INSURANCE that covers FIRE THEFT AND FLOOD DAMAGE , DIDN,T YOU???, and you read and fully understand the exceptions and exclusions so if you need to file any claims so they can,t deny coverage, ) if you did not it might be a good reason to buy some in the future along with a high quality replacement water and air tight replacement gun safe and for you too use a water tight sealant on and bolt holes in the safe you used to add security bolts into the floor slab, and its always a good idea to use a skirt of expanding water proof foam around the safe's base perimeter, as a primary moisture barrier.
Id also point out that properly applying 3" wide , plastic backed,water proof duct tape over the door seams is a well documented way to prevent or at least greatly reduce water entering a safe
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/interesting-firearms-rust-prevention.10343/
https://collectinsure.com/what-we-insure/guns-knives-accessories?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Collectibles Keywords - Insurance Feb 2016&utm_term=+nra +gun +insurance&utm_content=Gun NRA
WATCH VIDEOS
https://snt150.mail.live.com/?tid=cmzIj ... id=flinbox
http://www.vaultandsafe.com/Bolting_dow ... safe.shtml
http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/buyers-guide/best-gun-safe/
http://www.comparison411.com/search.php ... 7Aod9g0Ajg
FOUR OF THE 4 3/4"-6" long 5/8" diam expansion bolts with a couple large fender washers, should be used, one in each corner on a concrete floor
correctly installed each bolt will require more than 3000lbs of pull force to shear
deal with a REAL safe company not some sporting goods store, a real safe company will have a fork lift or other method of moving a 4000-6000lb safe, get a TL30 or TL 60 rated safe! and while they may charge to install the safe youll know its been done correctly, btw what damn good does it to to have a 1" thick steel door that locks into a solid frame on a "GUN SAFE" if its on a 10 GA safe body?, and any moron with a portable plazma cutter or air chisel, or axe and or 5-6 ft pry bar, can open a 10 ga steel safe body in minutes, 10 ga is just a bit over 1/8" thick
http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/scale ... metal.html
heres what a fire axe can do to a cheap gun safe with sheet metal body
watch these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltK-bDbA ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwpZ2I_jZv4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAyp9UpBvGE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaSLvBmDfqc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6ewI-Wc5Yg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCnsDZ4l2iA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKGB9OchebU
http://www.graffundersafes.com/products/vault.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2EyFNCA ... re=related
http://www.libertysafe.com/
http://www.empiresafe.com/143/ism_super ... y_trtl30x6
http://www.sportsmansteelsafes.com/crown_series.htm
http://www.diamondbackgunsafes.com/
http://www.tractorsupply.com/safes/cann ... ty-3910204
you usually get what you pay for , but some fairly cheap safes are fairly decent values
most large citys have a dealer in USED commercial safes that can get you a decent deal on a used safe that will cost less and give you a better safe for the money spent, and you can have it professionally installed or at least get some good advice on how to go about it.
a decent commercial safe is a totally different class of safe from the typical gun safe
a typical gun safe weights in at 600-1500lbs, and have, 10ga-1/8" thick walls only the better brands high end designs have a minimum of 1/4"-3/8" walls, good versions are 1/2"-1" thick , some have two walls separated by inches of re=enforced concrete and re-bar a decent security safe can weight 4000-6000lbs,and have 3"-5" thick walls composed of steel surface and concrete filled walls and a 1" or thicker door backed with several more inches of layered bracing, and USED commercial safes cost, is frequently similar to a new gun safe.
http://www.graffundersafes.com/products/vault.html
http://www.lackasafe.com/products/high- ... rity-safes
http://burglarbomb.com/
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html
http://www.stronggunsafes.com/gun-safe- ... guide.html
it should be obvious that if you bolt a safe into the back corner of a small closet , and used quality locking bolts to bolt it into a solid floor,you limit easy access with tools, naturally the type of floor and safe will dictate the anchoring methods required but making access to the safe restricted improves security.
it should also be obvious that having a QUALITY alarm system,on your home (REDUNDANT ALARM SYSTEMS ARE OBVIOUSLY EVEN BETTER)
Word of caution for you guys using cell network to transmit security data.
A cheap ass ebay cell jammer makes your shit worthless. Have a hardline to a batt backup pc running a google phone number as backup.
ESPECIALLY THOSE that, are monitored 24/7/365 and having a system that dials police if activated on the house key pad that can,t be disabled by cutting phone lines, or cutting power to the house,equipped with an exceedingly loud alarm bell or siren, that's hard to locate or disable is MANDATORY, as is a hostage/silent alarm code activation option
Don,t think that the cost of a decent safe is wasted money
your very unlikely to buy a decent safe and not be able to sell it several years later for near what you paid for it or more, and you might be astounded at what a few common firearms would cost to replace.
one of my neighbors had two deer rifles he purchased in the 1970s for less than $200 each, stolen from his home while he was on vacation, too replace them now with identical rifles cost him almost $1900
his wife lost some jewelry and was shocked to find its replacement cost was easily 20 times what she originally paid for it in the 1960s
Last edited by a moderator: