carburetor intake manifold test

Discussion in 'Intake Systems , Fuel Systems and Related' started by grumpyvette, Sep 17, 2008.

  1. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    Dual Plane Intake Manifold Comparisons - The Great Intake Flog, Part II
    Written by Jeff Smith on September 5, 2013 Dueling Dual Planes
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    If you're a typical car crafter, one of the first performance-engine parts you bought was probably a dual plane intake manifold. A well-designed dual plane intake can improve torque, add horsepower, and make that otherwise stock engine look a little more aggressive. But it wasn't until we started counting did we realize the incredible variety of choices when it comes to choosing a dual plane intake manifold for a small block Chevy. We collected a 23-deep pile of dual plane intakes to continue with our small block Chevy dual plane intake comparison. The collection of manifolds could have been even larger, but we limited our test to the'55–'86-style bolt pattern. We bypassed both the Vortec intake and the '87 to mid-'90s intakes, on which the four center-bolt angles were altered. We mentioned that this intake comparison is part of a series of small block Chevy components testing we've completed. The first was a budget cylinder head-test in the Sept. '12 issue ("Eight-Budget-SBC-Head Shootout"), in which we wrestled eight less-than-$1,000 heads on our Slayer 350 small block Chevy. The following month, we looked at a bunch of inexpensive four-barrel carburetors ("The Great $299 Carburetor Shootout," Oct. '12). Most recently, in our June '13 issue, we completed our massive single-plane comparison ("The Great Intake Flog"), testing 19 intakes on our 406ci small block that is this month's test mule. A little teaser: If you were to combine the "winners" of these previous tests, you would have a fairly powerful combination—and that's exactly what you can expect us to do in an upcoming issue. That's our not-so-subtle way to keep you reading Car Craft.

    Dual Plane Intake Test Engine

    As we did with our single plane intake comparison, we are using the 406ci small block Chevy first introduced in the May '11 issue ("Build a 400ci Torque Monster For $2,500") and later rebuilt as "Build Big-Hammer Power" in the Dec. '11 issue. We've decided to call this engine Rodney Dangerfield because it gets no respect— only abuse. By the time we were done with this test, the 406 had slogged through more than 150 dyno runs with nary a whimper. The engine is basically the same as the one used in the June '13 single plane intake test, with a change to a milder Crane camshaft that is more in line with what would be used in a dual plane intake application. We've retained the same Crane Gold 1.6:1 roller rockers and 0.080-inch-wall pushrods. We also retained the TFS 215cc heads used in the previous test to ensure we could flow enough air to evaluate the intake manifolds and not the cylinder heads. Because we didn't expect to exceed 500 hp, we chose a more compatible 750-cfm Holley HP mechanical-secondary carburetor that worked well out of the box, needing only minor jet and air-bleed changes from time to time to ensure the air/fuel (A/F) ratio curve remained between 12.5 and 13.1:1. Finally, Westech's 13⁄4-inch dyno headers and 3-inch Flowmaster mufflers directed the exhaust.

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    Dual Plane Intake Test Procedure

    With this many intake manifolds, we expected the competition would be very close. This demanded a very accurate test procedure to achieve best results. This meant that Westech dyno guru Steve Brulé had to control several variables, the most important of which was A/F ratio. Because we were using a carburetor, the A/F ratio is subject to significant swings based on manifold design. Carburetors also don't produce the same A/F ratio throughout the entire power curve. We made sure each test maintained an A/F ratio range within 12.5:1 and 13.1:1. That was the best we could do without custom-tuning the carburetor for each manifold. We also made sure the oil temperature was consistent for each test because cold oil can cost upwards of 5–10-lb-ft of torque and similar horsepower numbers. These requirements eventually dictated a test procedure in which we would subject each manifold to anywhere from three to five test runs until we had two curves within 0.5 percent. Then we averaged those two runs into a single curve. This eliminates an individual "hero" run from tweaking our results. In order to maintain timing accuracy, we used an MSD crank trigger with total timing set to 34 degrees, removing the variable of resetting the timing each time we changed manifolds. We also re-ran the first intake manifold tested at the end of the test to ensure that our 406 was still producing the same power. When the re-test gave us nearly identical results from the first run three days earlier, we knew our tests were as accurate as we could produce.

    Overall, the dual plane intake test required the better part of three days, but we think accurate results were well worth the effort. Also, the TFS aluminum 215cc heads now have had nearly 50 intakes bolted to them, and those intake threads in the heads have held up just fine. Hero status is awarded to whomever does the heat-treating on those TFS heads! A big thank you to Fel-Pro for all the intake gaskets we blew through in this test and to Permatex for the big tubes of The Right Stuff RTV we used to keep the oil inside the engine. We've also used the Ultra Grey and Ultra Black with great results. Finally, thanks to Summit Racing for supplying a large pile of 3⁄8- and 1⁄2-inch Allen pipe plugs to seal up many of these manifolds. The Holley intakes came with plugs, though most of the other intakes do not.

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    Short Manifolds (Less Than 5.00 Inch Carb Pad Height)

    Manifold PN Price Peak TQ Peak HP Avg. TQ Carb Ht. TQ at 3,000
    Edelbrock EPS 2701 $139.95 506 461 466.2 4.80 476
    Edelbrock Air Gap 2601 $225.95 504 458 464.7 4.92 478
    Chevrolet ZZ4 10185063 $239.95 500 471 464.5 4.95 467
    Weiand Street Warrior 8125 $151.95 501 463 463.5 3.65 470
    Weiand Street Warrior 8120 $134.95 502 459 462.8 4.62 471
    Summit Stage 1 226012 $131.95 498 459 461.0 4.65 468
    Edelbrock Performer 2101 $157.95 494 456 459.1 4.60 470
    Prof. Prod. Cyclone 52001 $143.95 487 436 449.3 4.72 471
    [​IMG] 5/16 Our test engine is the same 406ci small-block we used for the single-plane intake manifold test, with a change to more conservative cam timing that is closer to what would be typical for a dual-plane intake manifold–equipped engine. We also used a smaller 750hp Holley carburetor instead of the 850 Ultra HP employed in the single-plane test.
    [​IMG] 6/16 Edelbrock says the EPS is worth 9 lb-ft over the 2101 on a 350ci engine. We saw 12 lb-ft with our 406 over the 2101, and the EPS bettered the 2601 Performer Air Gap in average torque. Even better, the EPS saves $20 over the 2101. Within the short manifolds, the EPS is an excellent choice.
    Medium Manifolds (5.00 to 5.30 Inches Carb Pad Height)

    Manifold PN Price Peak TQ Peak HP Avg. TQ Carb Ht. TQ at 3,000
    AFR Titon 4804 $579.00 510 484 473.6 5.29 467
    Edelbrock Air Gap 7501 $234.95 508 474 471.2 5.26 473
    Edelbrock RPM 7101 $174.95 504 470 468.3 5.25 474
    Weiand Warrior 8501 $217.95 504 466 466.3 5.24 471
    Summit Stage 3 226010 $182.95 503 464 465.6 5.25 471
    Edelbrock RPM Q-Jet 7104 $199.95 501 465 465.3 5.25 471
    Summit Stage 2 226014 $132.95 502 469 464.9 5.18 466
    Weiand Speed War 8150 $145.95 502 467 464.9 5.18 467
    Jegs 513000 $ 99.99 500 471 464.5 5.29 462
    Professional Products Crosswind 52026 $199.95 496 457 459.5 5.24 469
    Tall Manifolds (5.30 Inches and Taller)

    Manifold PN Price Peak TQ Peak HP Avg. TQ Carb Ht. TQ at 3,000
    Professional Products Typhoon 52021 $162.95 499 469 465.3 5.33 471
    TFS StreetBurner 30400222 $224.95 501 465 465.2 5.39 473
    Dart SHP 42811000 $231.70 501 464 463.7 5.52 470
    Professional Products Cyclone-Plus 52013 $177.95 497 458 461.0 5.37 471
    Chevy Iron 14096011 $261.06 494 457 459.0 5.45 468
    Peak Torque and Horsepower

    We have to acknowledge how amazingly tight this field is in terms of peak torque. How close? It is fair to say that it would be difficult to feel the difference of 2 percent of power. That's 10 lb-ft of torque, the difference between the Third Place Edelbrock EPS manifold at 506 lb-ft and the Professional Products Crosswind (52026), which placed 20th. Also note that in the peak-torque category, three of the top five manifolds are Edelbrock castings. When it comes to dual-plane intakes, torque is king, and it appears the Edelbrock has this part of the power curve dialed in.

    Torque at 3,000 rpm is another important category that we listed in the initial description chart for each manifold. We opted to include this bit of data because it relates to low-speed power. With a performance torque converter, this would be just after the converter hits. Note that the relatively short Edelbrock 2601 Performer Air Gap manifold makes more torque at 3,000 than any other manifold. Compare its 478 lb-ft to the Jegs manifold's 462 lb-ft, to see that the Air Gap makes 16 lb-ft more torque. We guarantee you will feel 16 lb-ft in the seat of your pants. We think this can be partially attributed to the plenum-wall cutout on the Jegs manifold, but the TFS and Dart manifolds also have this feature, and those manifolds are only down by a single-digit compared with the Edelbrock. For a mild street engine (especially with stock or near-stock heads), this low-speed torque value should be given greater consideration.

    Now let's talk peak horsepower. While the field gets a little more spread out in this category, the difference between the Third-Place Jegs Champion and the 21st place Edelbrock Performer is only 15 hp—barely a 3 percent increase. By now, it should be obvious that any manifold you choose within the top 20 will work just fine for a street small-block. Keep in mind that this test used really good heads on a large engine. With a mild 350 with near-stock heads, the differences in these manifolds would be much narrower. And we haven't even mentioned price yet.

    [​IMG] 10/16 If peak torque and peak horsepower are your only goals, then look no further than the AFR composite manifold. Yes, it’s expensive, but it simply bested every other manifold.
    Peak Torque and Horsepower

    Ranking Peak TQ Ranking Peak HP
    AFR Titon 510 1st AFR Titon 484
    2nd Edelbrock 7501 508 2nd Edelbrock 7501 474
    3rd Edelbrock EPS 2701 506 3rd Jegs Champion 471
    4th Edelbrock RPM 7101 504 4th Edelbrock RPM 7101 470
    4th Weiand Warrior 8501 504 5th Pro. Prod 52021 469
    4th Edelbrock 2601 504 5th Summit 226014 469
    7th Summit 226010 503 7th Weiand 8150 467
    8th Summit 226014 502 8th Weiand 8501 466
    8th Weiand Warrior 8150 502 9th Edelbrock 7104 465
    8th Weiand 8120 502 9th TFS Street Burner 465
    11th TFS StreetBurner 501 11th Summit 226010 464
    11th Edelbrock 7104 501 11th Dart SHP 464
    11th Dart SHP 501 13th Weiand 8125 463
    11th Weiand 8125 501 14th Edelbrock 2701 461
    15th Chevy ZZ4 500 15th Weiand 8120 459
    15th Jegs Champion 500 15th Summit 226012 459
    17th Pro. Prod. Typhoon 499 17th Edelbrock 2601 458
    18th Summit 226012 498 17th Pro. Prod. 52013 458
    19th Prof. Prod. 52013 497 19th Pro. Prod. 52026 457
    20th Prof. Prod. 52026 496 19th Chevy Iron 457
    21st Edelbrock 2101 494 21st Edelbrock 2101 456
    21st Chevy Iron 494 22nd Chevy ZZ4 451
    23rd Pro. Prod. Cyclone 487 23rd Pro. Prod. 52001 436
    Average Torque and Average Torque per Dollar

    Here's where we lay it on the line. For street engines, it's not peak horsepower that makes your engine feel powerful. Street-smart engine builders emphasize torque, and while peak torque is a good indicator, we think the best judge of a dual-plane intake is average torque. This generates a single number created by averaging all the torque numbers within the test range of 2,500 and 6,200 rpm. We weren't surprised when the AFR Titon composite manifold handily won this contest. What was surprising was the tried-and-true Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap was within 2.4 lb-ft of the AFR at less than half the cost. It's also important to note that this evaluation really splits hairs because nearly all these manifolds produce excellent power. Let's take the Weiand 8125 Street Warrior. It made 500 lb-ft of peak torque yet is listed 15th in average torque. But when we plugged its torque curve into our Quarter, Pro dragstrip simulation, this intake is only off 0.15-second and 1 mph compared with the fourth-rated Edelbrock 7101. So you can see that most of these manifolds really do a decent job. Drop out the top and bottom two manifolds, and the total spread between 3rd and 20th is 2 percent—or 9.2 lb-ft of average torque.

    For the typical car crafter, average torque per dollar is probably most important of all the ratings in this shootout. Unless your name is Bill Gates, cost and power are equally important. To come up with this evaluation, we divided the manifold's average torque by its price; the larger the number, the more power it delivers for each dollar spent. From the moment we began pricing manifolds, the Jegs Champion appeared to be a front-runner. At $99.99, all this intake had to do was make decent torque and horsepower to win this category. But, as you've seen, this intake ranked Third in peak horsepower and was capable of 500 lb-ft of torque. Trim $30 off its next closest price rivals, and the conclusion is simple: If we were to mash up all the evaluations into one overall winner, you could make a great case for the Jegs Champion intake. Note that the AFR number is a fraction, which means its price was a larger number than its average torque.

    [​IMG] 11/16 The Weiand Speed Warrior 8501 also separates the runners from the manifold floor. It placed a respectable Fourth in average torque and sixth in average torque per dollar, making it an excellent choice.
    Average Torque and Average Torque per Dollar

    Ranking Avg. TQ Ranking Avg. TQ/$
    AFR Titon 473.6 1st Jegs Champion 4.64
    2nd Edelbrock 7501 471.2 2nd Summit 226014 3.49
    3rd Edelbrock 7101 468.3 3rd Summit 226012 3.49
    4th Weiand 8501 466.3 4th Weiand 8120 3.43
    5th Edelbrock 2701 466.2 5th Edelbrock 2701 3.31
    6th Summit 226010 465.6 6th Weiand 8150 3.18
    7th Edelbrock 7104 465.3 7th Pro. Prod. 52001 3.12
    7th Pro. Prod. 52021 465.3 8th Weiand 8125 3.05
    9th TFS StreetBurner 465.2 9th Edelbrock 2101 2.90
    10th Summit 226014 464.9 10th Pro. Prod. 52021 2.85
    10th Weiand 8150 464.9 11th Edelbrock 7101 2.67
    12th Edelbrock 2601 464.7 12th Pro Prod. 52013 2.59
    13th Jegs Champion 464.5 13th Summit 226010 2.54
    14th Dart SHP 463.7 14th Edelbrock 7104 2.32
    15th Weiand 8125 463.5 15th Pro. Prod. 52026 2.29
    16th Weiand 8120 462.8 16th Weiand 8501 2.14
    17th Summit 226012 461.0 17th TFS StreetBurner 2.06
    17th Pro. Prod. 52013 461.0 18th Edelbrock 2601 2.05
    19th Pro. Prod. 52026 459.5 19th Edelbrock 7501 2.00
    20th Edelbrock 2101 459.1 20th Dart SHP 2.00
    21st Chevy Iron 459.0 21st Chevy ZZ4 1.89
    22nd Chevy ZZ4 454.4 22nd Chevy Iron 1.76
    23rd Pro. Prod. 52001 449.3 23rd AFR Titon 0.82
    In-Car Power

    What will all this power do in a car? We simulated the 7101 Edelbrock Performer RPM's power curve in a 3,450-pound Chevelle with 3.55:1 gears, a 2004R automatic, 3,000-rpm stall-speed converter, 26-inch-tall Mickey Thompson ET Street tires, and shifting at 6,400 rpm. The Quarter, Pro simulation reported that the Chevelle could run 11.50s at 117 mph with a 1.55-second 60-foot time. That's impressive for a 470hp dual-plane–equipped small-block. Keep in mind that strong average torque is what makes this combination so quick. If you recall, our single-plane intake test—with the same 406ci engine with a bigger cam—the motor made as much as 559 hp, but in the same simulated car with the same equipment, the greater horsepower only pushed the Chevelle to 11.30s at 120 mph. With more gear (like a 4.10:1, for example), the car would probably run 11-teens in the higher-horsepower configuration.

    [​IMG] 15/16 Through it all, our Rodney 406 braved more than 150 dyno pulls, and we’re not finished yet. It might just find its way into our Orange Peel Chevelle.
    Cam Specs

    Crane Roller: PN 118571 Duration at 0.050 (Degrees) Valve Lift W/ 1.5:1 (w/ 1.6:1 rockers) Lobe-Separation Angle (degrees)
    Intake 232 0.525 (0.560)* 112
    Exhaust 240 0.543 (0.579)*
    *This is gross lift. We set the lash at 0.020 inch, which must be subtracted from the gross-lift number to produce a net lift equaling 0.540/0.559.

    [​IMG] 16/16 As with our single-plane test, taller manifolds generally make more power—although not always, as the results will show. The Performer RPM Air Gap separates the intake runners from the hot oil bouncing off the bottom of the manifold to reduce inlet-air temperatures. When choosing a manifold, keep in mind that it has to fit under the hood.
    Test Parts List

    Description PN Source Price
    TFS 215cc heads 32400007 Summit Racing $1,449.95
    Crane roller cam 118571 Summit Racing 426.00
    Crane roller lifters 11552-16 Summit Racing 428.80
    Crane roller rockers 11755-16 Summit Racing 395.20
    Crane pushrods 95642-16 Summit Racing 156.80
    Crane thrust button 99164-1 Summit Racing 14.00
    Fel-Pro head gasket 1143 Summit Racing 88.95 (2)
    Fel-Pro int. gasket 1206 Summit Racing 16.95
    MSD crank trigger 8615 Summit Racing 255.95
    MSD distributor 85551 Summit Racing 235.95
    MSD plug wires 31229 Summit Racing 84.95
    Autolite spark plugs AR3933 (8) Summit Racing 28.00
    ARP head bolts 134-3701 Summit Racing 84.28
    ARP intake bolts 434-2001 Summit Racing 33.70
    Permatex Ultra Gr. 82194 Local Auto Parts 7.49
    Carb adapter plate 2732 Summit Racing 6.95
    3⁄8-inch pipe plugs (4) G1482 Summit Racing 5.95
    1⁄2-inch pipe plugs (4) G1483 Summit Racing 5.95
    And the Winner Is…

    We will leave the final selection entirely up to you. If your budget screams for help, the Jegs Champion intake is the wallet-friendly choice. If power is your only goal, the AFR Titon is clearly the best, hands down. If power and price demand equal attention, either the Edelbrock Performer EPS (2701) Air Gap or the 8150 Weiand Speed Warrior or the Summit Stage 2 will certainly deliver. Frankly, any of the manifolds ranked in the top 15 of all our evaluations are solid choices that won't leave you with buyer's remorse. We hope we've removed some of the guesswork from your next manifold purchase.
  2. 87vette81big

    87vette81big Guest

    This is the Best SBC Dual Plane Intake Testing I have ever read Grumpy.
    The Top performance intakes have become expensive. $500 or more New.
    No deals found New this time of year.
    Winter has passed and Racing season is ready to start in a few days. May 01, 2016.
    Weiland intakes performed nice & the standard Edelbrock Performer.

    Its difficult for an engine Dyno operator to do pulls 1,000-2,000 Rpms.
    That would show Off idle transient response.
    But a High Stall converter would mask any defficiencies.
    Big Block Route give even better results.
    406 sbc in the test is a strong runner.
  3. 87vette81big

    87vette81big Guest

    The 1/4 Mile simulator they did is pretty accurate.
    Matching Hellcats performance .
    But the real key is the Torque convertrer chosen. And Rear diff gearing.
    Or a 4-speed Muncie trans with perfect Driver Shifts Made through 1/4 mile.
  4. 87vette81big

    87vette81big Guest

    Not much valve lifts used also.
    Valve guides will last a long time on the street driving daily.
    40,000-100,000 life.
  5. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

  6. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    We Put 19 Single-Plane Small Block Chevy Intakes to the Test
    Written by Jeff Smith on July 26, 2013

    The Great Intake Flog

    One of the most difficult stories to do in the performance-magazine world is a direct component comparison. With any head-to-head comparison, there are going to be winners and losers. It’s human nature to want to simplify a complex issue, such as the comparison of 19 different intake manifolds. When it comes to dyno testing, we naturally gravitate toward that romantic peak-horsepower number. The problem with picking a winner using a single test parameter—in this case, peak horsepower—is that one evaluator is rarely the best or only factor when making a decision on the “best.” We believe choosing an intake manifold, or any high-performance engine component, is a complex decision based on a multitude of important factors, so we tried to cover all those factors with this test—as with all of Car Craft’s most recent comparison tests, such as the small block Chevy (Sept. ’12) and small block Ford (Feb. ’13) head tests.

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    For this latest adventure, we assembled 19 small block Chevy single-plane intake manifolds and ran them all across a 550hp, 406ci small block Chevy. But that was just the start. We measured carb pad height because the manifold has to be able to fit under your hood. We measured plenum depth because that’s important for making good power. We’ve also calculated average torque between 3,500 and 6,500 because that is the rpm band where these engines will spend the majority of their time during a quarter-mile run. We think average torque is the most important factor that we measured in this test. You will get tired of hearing that in this story because that’s the hammer we’re bringing. Apply a higher average torque, and it will accelerate any vehicle quicker. You might have a manifold that makes good peak horsepower, but if it loses torque in the middle rpm band, the peak-horsepower number is not nearly as important as the average power. The only instance where peak horsepower is really critical is if you have a close-ratio, eight-speed trans that can keep the engine within 1,000 rpm of its peak-horsepower rpm, but since we’re not talking about Formula 1 here, that isn’t really relevant to the average car crafter’s car. So if you only take one thing away from this story, burn average torque into your memory bank.

    The Test Engine
    We wanted a stout engine capable of making good power to ensure that each manifold would be pushed to give its best. We decided to resurrect our 400ci small block Chevy that first appeared in the May ’11 issue (“Build a 400ci Torque Monster for $2,500”), followed by its redemption story “Build Big-Hammer Power” in the Dec. ’11 issue. We like to name our engines because it’s easier keep them all straight, so this 406 is now dubbed Rodney, as in Dangerfield, because until now it has never received any respect. But after this marathon flogging, Rodney has earned his walkin’ papers, as he endured us beating the snot out of him for more than 100 power pulls over four days, with never a whimper.

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    You may recall that Rodney spins an internally balanced 4340 Scat steel crank, Scat I-beam rods, and a set of Icon forged pistons. We upgraded the heads to a pair of TFS Super 23 aluminum castings to ensure we got the most out of each intake. The heads feature a 215cc intake port with 2.08/1.60-inch stainless-steel valves and roller springs capable of controlling the mechanical roller cam. The cam we chose is a Crane with sufficient specs to push the peak-rpm point up to 6,500 rpm but is still suitable for the street. We also added a set of Crane Gold 1.5:1 roller rockers and proper-length Crane pushrods to ensure a stable valvetrain. The point was to make the engine dead-reliable. Compression ended up at 10.1:1, which allowed us to run this engine on pump gas, though we ran Rockett Racing fuel to ensure consistent performance. We also wanted a big enough carburetor that it would not be a restriction, so we selected one of Holley’s new Ultra HP 850-cfm carburetors that offered reliable fuel mixing and excellent consistency throughout the test. Only a few intake manifolds required mixture adjustments, and using an MSD crank trigger unit and distributor, we kept the timing rock-solid at 36 degrees so we wouldn’t have to worry about resetting ignition timing each time we removed the distributor to swap an intake.


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    Cam Specs

    Crane Mechanical Roller || PN 118741
    Duration at .050 Valve Lift Lobe-Separation angle
    (Degrees) (Inches) (Degrees)
    Intake 248 0.630* 106
    Exhaust 256 0.630*
    *This is gross lift. We set the lash at 0.17 inch, which we subtracted from the gross lift number to produce a net lift of 0.613 inch.

    The Manifolds

    Edelbrock Torker II
    The Torker II lives up to its name with good torque below 4,600 rpm. After that, its subdued carb height hurts horsepower. As one of the shortest manifolds in the test, it offers good potential in low hood applications.

    PN 5001
    Price $149.95
    Peak HP 492 at 6,000
    Peak TQ 501 at 4,400
    Average TQ 466.5
    Carb Pad Height 4.55
    Plenum Depth 3.38 inches
    Weiand X-CELerator
    As this was the shortest intake in the test, we were surprised it achieved 505 peak horsepower. It also managed to make an average of 472 lb-ft of torque, which is respectable.

    PN 7547-1
    Price $165.95
    Peak HP 505 at 6,200
    Peak TQ 502 at 4,500
    Average TQ 472.0
    Carb Pad Height 4.00
    Plenum Depth 2.95 inches
    Edelbrock Super Victor 23
    The results for this manifold were puzzling, since it lost more than 10 lb-ft of torque in the midrange compared with many of the other manifolds. While the Super Victor 23 generated good peak horsepower for its height, its low average torque is a detriment.

    PN 2925
    Price $249.95
    Peak HP 523 at 6,100
    Peak TQ 506 at 4,500
    Average TQ 477.4
    Carb Pad Height 5.50
    Plenum Depth 4.05 inches
    Weiand Team G
    We divided the average torque by the carb-pad height and discovered this manifold really rocks for its height. It makes more than 500 hp yet is one of the lowest manifolds. It would probably respond well to a carb spacer if there were room under your hood.

    PN 7530
    Price $209.95
    Peak HP 524 at 6,200
    Peak TQ 507 at 4,600
    Average TQ 478.4
    Carb Pad Height 4.50
    Plenum Depth 3.78 inches
    Edelbrock Victor Jr.
    Edelbrock has probably sold more Victor Jr.’s over the years than the rest of the field combined. Despite its relatively low carb height, it offers great average torque and peak horsepower. For a car with a restricted hood line, this manifold would be a wise choice.

    PN 2975
    Price $234.95
    Peak HP 523 at 6,200
    Peak TQ 507 at 4,700
    Average TQ 479.2
    Carb Pad Height 5.04
    Plenum Depth 3.91 inches
    Professional Products Super Hurricane
    Just for the record, if you look at the results for the ProComp Shootout Pro, you’ll notice they are very similar to this Professional Products Super Hurricane. That’s because they are same manifold, with just slightly different part numbers.

    PN 52037
    Price $258.95
    Peak HP 530 at 6,200
    Peak TQ 504 at 4,700
    Average TQ 480.2
    Carb Pad Height 5.85
    Plenum Depth 4.49 inches
    Summit Single-Plane
    Be sure to note this manifold’s place in the Average Torque Per Dollar category (page 24). This would be our dark-horse winner for “Tall Manifold That Rocks for Less Bucks.” If this manifold won’t fit under your hood, you’ve probably saved enough cash to buy a fiberglass cowl hood!

    PN 226050
    Price $189.95
    Peak HP 531 at 6,400
    Peak TQ 507 at 4,600
    Average TQ 480.5
    Carb Pad Height 6.30
    Plenum Depth 4.46 inches
    The Brodix catalog lists a bewildering number of different small-block Chevy single-plane intakes, but most are specific applications or race manifolds. The HV1000 is the most popular. Average torque is solid mid-pack.

    PN HV1000
    Price $354.95
    Peak HP 530 at 6,200
    Peak TQ 505 at 4,600
    Average TQ 481.3
    Carb Pad Height 5.76
    Plenum Depth 4.165
    Bill Mitchell Products Motown
    The Motown intake has been around for a long time yet still delivers on the average torque and decent peak horsepower.

    PN 061040
    Price $300.95
    Peak HP 534 at 6,300
    Peak TQ 508 at 4,600
    Average TQ 481.5
    Carb Pad Height 5.63
    Plenum Depth 4.15 inches
    Professional Products Hurricane Plus
    The manifold we tested was externally polished but the part number and price indicated are for the satin version.

    PN 52034
    Price $227.95
    Peak HP 535 at 6,400
    Peak TQ 506 at 4,600
    Average TQ 482.9
    Carb Pad Height 5.90
    Plenum Depth 4.42
    ProComp Shootout Pro
    See the notes for the Professional Products Super Hurricane. The difference in average torque between all the Professional Products and ProComp Electronics manifolds is 1 percent, which is so minor as to be chalked up to casting variations and dyno-test variables.

    PN 22037
    Price $241.95
    Peak HP 532 at 6,300
    Peak TQ 508 at 4,600
    Average TQ 481.8
    Carb Pad Height 5.85
    Plenum Depth 4.49 inches
    Dart Single-Plane
    The Dart manifold produced a strong torque curve. Its rather short plenum depth indicates that it might offer crisper part-throttle performance with its smaller plenum area. Note the strong 539 peak horsepower number.

    PN 42311000
    Price $423.77
    Peak HP 539 at 6,300
    Peak TQ 506 at 4,600
    Average TQ 483.2
    Carb Pad Height 5.60
    Plenum Depth 3.91 inches
    Professional Products Hurricane
    It was difficult for us to tell a difference between the Hurricane, the Hurricane Plus, and the Super Hurricane manifolds. The Hurricane tested the best of the three and is the least expensive!

    PN 52031
    Price $210.95
    Peak HP 536 at 6,400
    Peak TQ 511 at 4,600
    Average TQ 484.9
    Carb Pad Height 5.87
    Plenum Depth 4.49 inches
    Wilson Ported Super Victor 23
    We expected the Wilson to perform very well, but it appears that its limited height kept it from the top-horsepower brass ring. Compared with the Super Victor II, the Wilson ported Super Victor is 1.3 inches shorter in carb pad height. If cost is no object with a cast manifold, this is the place to be.

    PN 128-250
    Price $901.28
    Peak HP 540 at 6,300
    Peak TQ 513 at 4,700
    Average TQ 488.9
    Carb Pad Height 5.50
    Plenum Depth 4.05 inches
    Racing Head Service
    The RHS intake is unique in that it is machined for three different small-block intake patterns: the standard 23-degree small-block, the ’87-and-later pattern that uses the near-vertical center bolts, and the ’98-and-later Vortec 8-bolt version. This manifold is able to accommodate all three of those cylinder-head choices. Plus, the multi-point EFI version aims the injectors toward the back of the intake valve.

    PN 12902
    Price $299.95
    Peak HP 534 at 6,300
    Peak TQ 511 at 4,700
    Average TQ 486.0
    Carb Pad Height 5.50
    Plenum Depth 3.92
    Holley Keith Dorton
    This manifold was among the sleepers in this test. It produced excellent average power and good horsepower.

    PN 300-110
    Price $279.95
    Peak HP 538 at 6,200
    Peak TQ 516 at 4,700
    Average TQ 487.6
    Carb Pad Height 6.10
    Plenum Depth 4.80
    Holley Strip Dominator
    The word on the street has it that the Holley Strip Dominator was a good piece, and our testing substantiates that claim. It’s also among the most reasonably priced tall manifolds.

    PN 300-25
    Price $207.95
    Peak HP 543 at 6,200
    Peak TQ 514 at 4,700
    Average TQ 488.2
    Carb Pad Height 5.71
    Plenum Depth 3.97 inches
    Edelbrock Super Victor II
    If carb height is not a problem, there is little to dislike about the Super Victor II. Combine excellent horsepower and torque from an as-cast manifold, and you have the makings of an out-of-the-box winner. We’d like to see what Wilson could do with this manifold.

    PN 2892
    Price $379.95
    Peak HP 549 at 6,300
    Peak TQ 516 at 4,800
    Average TQ 490.9
    Carb Pad Height 6.80
    Plenum Depth 4.57
    AFR Titon
    The Titon is the only composite-material manifold, but it can be easily converted between two different plenums. We tested the taller of the two optional plenums, and it’s still more than an inch shorter than the Edelbrock Super Victor II.

    PN 4801
    Price $581.03
    Peak HP 541 at 6,300
    Peak TQ 519 at 4,600
    Average TQ 492.2
    Carb Pad Height 5.64
    Plenum Depth 4.01 inches
    Test Results
    After burning through gallons of Rockett-Brand gas and more than one big tube of Permatex Ultra Grey, a few intriguing results emerged. The most obvious is that the taller the manifold, the better the overall power. Next, we were amazed at how stupid-close the results were for the mid-pack manifolds. Deal-breakers might come down to overall height or price, but from a power standpoint, the mid-pack manifolds virtually overlap. Of course, everybody wants to know the peak horsepower numbers. We expected the Edelbrock Super Victor II to do well, and it outshined all comers with 549 hp. Another bright spot was the Holley Strip Dominator, with a strong showing in average torque. We also should point out that if Made in the USA means anything, the offerings from AFR, Edelbrock, Dart, Holley/Weiand, Wilson, and World Products should carry some weight, as these companies produce their products domestically.

    We have strived to make this test as accurate as possible, but it’s likely that each manifold’s performance could be easily influenced by our engine’s specific combination of displacement, compression, cam timing, and port flow. To eliminate variables, we tried to maintain a consistent air/fuel-ratio curve for each manifold. We also ran several tests (at least three but up to five runs) on each manifold until the power stabilized and we had two similar pulls. Toward the end of the test, we also re-baselined the engine to ensure that power had not dropped off due to abuse. When our retest resulted in numbers within 2 lb-ft and 2 hp, we decided nothing had changed since those numbers are within a half-percentage point. We averaged two pulls to create one curve for each manifold. While we’re on the subject of close numbers, the average-torque results reveal there are 11 manifolds in the middle of the field that are separated by a mere 8 lb-ft of torque; that’s less than a 2 percent difference in average torque. We did a quick comparison of the two manifolds at the opposite ends of that spread (Holley Strip Dominator and the Professional Products Hurricane), and using our Orange Peel Chevelle as the simulated vehicle, we entered the power into the Quarter, Pro dragstrip simulation program. It spit out a difference of 0.06 second and 1 mph. If you test at the track, air quality can affect performance more than that during one day of testing. These numbers underscore just how competitive the market is for single-plane, small-block Chevy intake manifolds. Most of us wouldn’t stress over four-hundredths and a half mph.

    If we were to make a case for an overall choice where height is not an issue, we’d suggest looking for a manifold that placed the highest in average torque, peak horsepower, and average torque per dollar. We crunched those numbers and discovered that the Holley Strip Dominator had the consistently highest finishing position. The next four in order were the Professional Products Hurricane, Summit, Dart, and Professional Products Hurricane Plus manifolds. This may not equate to a King of the Hill award because this ranking accords equal weight to each of the three categories. Place a bias on price, and the rankings change in favor of the Summit. As we mentioned, all this information only makes the decisions more challenging. You can thank us later.

    Peak Horsepower
    While peak horsepower is always the go-to number, keep in mind that for a typical street car, peak horsepower is a small part of the overall power strategy. The tallest manifolds produced the most peak power and also offered some of the best average torque numbers. If we look at the manifolds that finished Second through Sixth, there is barely a 5hp difference between them. That’s imperceptible in a street car. The AFR Titon and Wilson-ported Super Victor placed Third and Fourth, yet they are not overly tall manifolds. The Wilson porting job was worth 11.5 lb-ft of average torque and improved peak horsepower by 17 versus the as-cast Super Victor; that’s what Wilson’s Sportsman porting is worth. The Wilson’s peak horsepower would improve even more with a 1-inch spacer.

    Ranking Peak HP HP/$ RankIng HP/$
    1st Super Victor II 549 17th 1.45
    2nd Holley Strip Dominator 543 4th 2.60
    3rd AFR Titon 541 18th 0.92
    4th Wilson ported Super Victor 540 19th 0.60
    5th Dart 539 Tied 7th 2.34
    6th Holley Keith Dorton 538 13th 1.92
    7th Pro Products Hurricane 536 5th 2.54
    8th Pro Products Hurricane Plus 535 Tied 7th 2.34
    9th RHS 534 14th 1.78
    10th World Products Motown 534 15th 1.77
    11th ProComp Shootout Pro 532 10th 2.20
    12th Summit 531 3rd 2.79
    13th Brodix HV1000 530 16th 1.49
    14th Pro Prod. Super Hurricane 530 12th 2.04
    15th Holley Team G 524 6th 2.49
    16th Edelbrock Victor Jr. 523 9th 2.22
    17th Edelbrock Super Victor 523 11th 2.09
    18th Weiand X-CELerator 505 2nd 3.04
    19th Torker II 492 1st 3.28
    Average Torque
    If you could only use one factor to rate these manifolds, this would be it. What we found interesting was how the very-short Torker II manifold lived up to its name, making 19 more lb-ft than the Victor Jr. at 3,800 rpm. Also, note that in the middle of this ranking (Team G through the Hurricane), there are 10 manifolds with barely 7 lb-ft of torque between them, so it would be difficult to feel the difference in power between these intakes. The top five manifolds are covered only by a spread of 1 percent average torque.

    Ranking Average TQ
    1st AFR Titon 492.2
    2nd Edelbrock Super Victor II 490.9
    3rd Wilson ported Super Victor 488.9
    4th Holley Strip Dominator 488.2
    5th Holley Dorton 487.6
    6th RHS 486.0
    7th Pro Products Hurricane 484.9
    8th Dart 483.2
    9th Pro Products Hurricane Plus 482.9
    10th ProComp Shootout Pro 481.8
    11th World Products Motown 481.5
    12th Brodix HV1000 481.3
    13th Summit 480.5
    14th Pro Products Super Hurricane 480.2
    15th Edelbrock Victor Jr. 479.2
    16th Holley Team G 478.4
    17th Edelbrock Super Victor 23 477.4
    18th Edelbrock Torker II 466.5
    19th Weiand X-CELerator 472
    Average Torque Per Dollar
    Next, we combined the two most important test criteria to rate how the average power was affected by price. Think carefully here, because the least expensive manifold is not necessarily the best buy; for example, the top two manifolds here are the worst in terms of overall power. Assuming power trumps price, then the Summit manifold really shines, as it placed mid-pack in average torque and is attractively priced at only $189.95, making 2.53 lb-ft of torque for every dollar spent. The next best manifold is the Holley Strip Dominator, which made more torque but costs an additional $30. At the bottom of the category are the Wilson and AFR manifolds with fractional numbers because their cost is higher than their average torque.

    Ranking Average TQ/$
    1st Edelbrock Torker II 3.11
    2nd Weiand X-CELerator 2.84
    3rd Summit 2.53
    4th Holley Strip Dominator 2.34
    5th Pro Products Hurricane 2.29
    6th Weiand Team G 2.27
    7th Pro Products Hurricane Plus 2.11
    8th Edelbrock Victor Jr. 2.04
    9th Pro Comp Shootout Pro 1.99
    10th Edelbrock Super Victor 23 1.91
    11th Pro Products Super Hurricane 1.85
    12th Holley Dorton 1.74
    13th RHS 1.62
    14th World Products Motown 1.60
    15th Brodix HV1000 1.35
    16th Edelbrock Super Victor II 1.29
    17th Dart 1.14
    18th AFR Titon 0.84
    19th Wilson 0.54
    Carb Pad Height
    This is a simple evaluation: The manifold will either fit under your hood or it won’t. The carb pad height measurement is the distance from the carb-mounting pad to the bottom of the rear china wall where the manifold seals to the block. If you already have an engine in the car, you can measure your manifold and compare that height with any of the manifolds tested here. One technique to check fitment is to place a lump of soft clay on top of the air cleaner at the closest point to the hood. Then close the hood carefully and measure the height of the compressed clay to determine the clearance. An interesting result here is how well the Weiand Team G and Victor Jr. manifolds performed, considering their attenuated height.

    Manifold Carb Pad Height
    Weiand X-CELerator 4.00
    Weiand Team G 4.50
    Edelbrock Torker II 4.55
    Edelbrock Victor Jr. 5.04
    Wilson Ported Super Victor 5.50
    Edelbrock Super Victor 5.50
    RHS 5.50
    Dart 5.60
    World Products Motown 5.63
    AFR Titon 5.64
    Holley Strip Dominator 5.71
    Brodix HV1000 5.76
    Pro Comp Shootout Pro 5.85
    Pro. Products Super Hurricane 5.85
    Pro Products Hurricane 52031 5.87
    Pro Products Hurricane Plus 5.90
    Holley Dorton 6.10
    Summit 6.30
    Edelbrock Super Victor II 6.85

    Parts List
    Description PN Source Price
    TFS 215cc heads 32400007 Summit Racing $1,449.95
    Crane roller cam 118741 Summit Racing 400.00
    Crane roller lifters 11519-16 Summit Racing 428.80
    Crane timing set 11976-1 Summit Racing 141.20
    Crane pushrods 95635-16 Summit Racing 156.80
    Crane thrust button 99164-1 Summit Racing 14.00
    Crane roller rockers 11755-16 Summit Racing 395.20
    Fel-Pro head gasket 1143 Summit Racing 88.95 (2)
    Fel-Pro intake gasket 1206 Summit Racing 16.95
    MSD crank trigger 8615 Summit Racing 255.95
    MSD distributor 85551 Summit Racing 235.95
    MSD plug wires 31229 Summit Racing 84.95
    Autolite spark plugs AR3933 (8) Summit Racing 28.00
    ARP head bolts 134-3701 Summit Racing 84.28
    ARP intake bolts 434-2001 Summit Racing 33.70
    Permatex Ultra Gr. 82194 Local Auto Parts 7.49
  7. 55C150

    55C150 Well-Known Member

    Very good information, thats what I'am looking for the last days. I would like to see an Edelbrock Perfomer EPS with a HVH Street Sweeper Spacer.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  8. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    Tunnel-Ram Vs. Single-Quad – Tech
    Written by Marko Radielovic on April 1, 2003
    We answer the gnawing question of the difference between tunnel-ram and single-quad.

    What’s the ultimate naturally aspirated intake-manifold design? Is it a modern single-plane or a tunnel-ram? That’s a question we intend to answer with this dyno-test.

    The PlayersTunnel-ram intake manifolds made their first known dragstrip appearance on the legendary Ram Chargers “High and Mighty” ’49 Plymouth in 1959. A group of hobbyists consisting largely of Chrysler engineers, the Ram Chargers created a new style of manifold by mounting a pair of Carter AFB carburetors over a common plenum and runners made from industrial-grade rubber hose. Thus the first tunnel-ram was born, attached to a 354-inch Hemi. Popular in the ’60s and ’70s with car crafters, the tunnel-ram enjoyed quite a following until the advent of modern, technologically advanced single four-barrel intakes that offered easier packaging and the simplicity of tuning one carburetor.

    In racing classes with no limitations on carburetion, tunnel-rams live on in high-tech sheetmetal and carbon-fiber form. In the ultimate expression of normally aspirated performance, NHRA Pro Stockers are exclusively equipped with tunnel-ram-style induction. But, like most performance components, tunnel-rams are combination specific; we don’t recommend slapping one on a 300-inch 8:1 compression engine.

    According to Air Flow Research’s Tony Mamo, a tunnel-ram-equipped engine should flow more air than one with a conventional single four-barrel intake manifold because it fools the motor into thinking it has better heads-even if the heads are very good. If, on a flowbench, a single four-barrel intake manifold is substituted for a radius plate (normally being attached to the port being tested), it is not uncommon to see significant decreases in flow because of the turn in the runner inherent to a single-plane design.

    Our test vehicle was equipped with a Mopar Performance tunnel-ram for W-2 cylinder heads. Unlike its predecessors from the ’70s, this modern design is a race unit with relatively short runners. The carburetion perched atop the intake consists of a pair of Holley 650 mechanical secondary double-pumpers equipped with Proform carb bodies. The Proform bodies feature no choke horns, nicely sculpted air entries, down-leg boosters, and screw-in air bleeds. It appeared somewhat cobbled together, but the dyno indicated that the carbs were working pretty well, especially after we got the air/fuel ratio dialed in with the high-speed air bleeds.

    To pit the venerable tunnel-ram against a contemporary single-plane design, we had to locate an intake with a large plenum volume. Representing modern single-plane technology is a relative newcomer in the realm of small-block Mopar single-plane intakes. Designed and manufactured by Indy Cylinder Heads, the Indy 360-3 was designed for use with the company’s own aluminum small-block cylinder heads, which are similar to the venerable W-2. The W-2, born out of the Pro Stock wars in 1976, is an iron, open-chamber design with oval intake ports featuring relocated pushrod holes that necessitate offset rocker arms. Though designed over two decades ago, they still prove formidable.

    The manifold is a direct bolt-on for standard W-2 heads, featuring beautifully shaped runners with consistent port volume and a very large plenum. The high-rise Indy intake promised to give the mighty ram a run for its money, topped with an equally serious Holley 950 HP carburetor. Also a mechanical-secondary double-pumper design, the 950 HP comes with all the features a custom carb shop would equip a race carb with, including screw-in air bleeds, a milled-off choke tower, double-step down-leg boosters, and improved metering circuits. Both intakes represent state-of-the-art technology, and if any single-plane can be a contender in this arena, this is the one.

    The TestOne week prior to our showdown, we spent an entire day working the bugs out of our tunnel-ram carburetor combination on Westech’s SuperFlow chassis dyno. What we ended up with was a seriously stout small-block posting an output of 532 hp at the rear wheels.

    After a thorough engine cooldown, we got to work swapping intakes. Having grown accustomed to the look of the tunnel-ram, a single four-barrel just seemed modest by comparison. Once bolted down, the Holley 950 was mounted, the linkage was connected and adjusted, and the beast was fired. We adjusted the idle and made our first partial pull to determine how far off the fuel mixture was. It looked good enough to pull all the way to 7,000 rpm. The air/fuel ratios were right on the money. No tweaking, no tuning, no jetting, no nothing. Out of the box, the Holley proved lethal. We cooled the Barracuda down and pulled it to 7,300 rpm. We were rewarded with just under 513 hp at the rear wheels. This Indy/Holley combination was proving very effective. We performed a backup pull to make sure the 513 horses weren’t a fluke and were handed another 513 hp ticket. No controversy here.

    What We learnedWell-designed tunnel-rams work. They make big torque and horsepower everywhere and carry the torque a great distance. You will notice by the dyno charts that the ram produced prodigious amounts of torque and horsepower well past 7,000 rpm, while the single-plane dropped off rather rapidly past its peak of 7,000 rpm. The ram usefully extends the powerband of the engine, enabling you to run a numerically higher gear than you would be able to with a single four-barrel induction. But the tunnel-ram comes with a price. The initial outlay will be significantly greater as the intakes typically cost more, two carburetors must be used, and the necessary linkage must be obtained. Then there’s the tuning effort needed to make the system work properly. Do not expect to bolt on a tunnel-ram, set the idle, and go. Considerable toil went into making all of the essential adjustments to the carburetion for the correct fuel metering particularly at high rpm where tuning is even more critical. Then there’s the hood clearance issue. The tunnel-ram will more than likely not fit under any stock hood.

    As far as the Indy manifold is concerned, we were surprised to find a four-barrel intake that came as close to the output of the tunnel-ram as this one did. Indy certainly did its homework when it produced this clean-slate design. For sheer user-friendliness, look no further than the Indy manifold. We bolted this induction on and laid down well over 500 hp at the wheels. It doesn’t get any simpler. Hood clearance with anything more than a 1-inch filter element may be a problem, but the packaging is much more user-friendly than it was with the ram. Indy Cylinder Heads has produced a winner. Not only did it keep the tunnel-ram in sight, it proved much less complex to set up. With the Indy intake, you don’t need an expert tuner to get you dialed in. Just bolt it on, make big power and go. For many, that’s good enough.

    Tunnel-Ram TrendsThe advent of big (large port volume) aftermarket cylinder heads for unlimited racing classes created the need for new-age tunnel-ram designs. How do the modern units differ from the rams of old? Glad you asked. Old-style rams were designed to run at rpm levels typical of the day with available production cylinder heads, which had port volumes a great deal smaller than many of today’s aftermarket cylinder heads. The old rams were tall and had long runners that promoted low-end torque. The trend today is for shorter, fatter, tapered runners designed to promote high-rpm horsepower. Tunnel-ram manifold technology has evolved to address this high-rpm need, with vastly improved cylinder heads, cams, and lightweight valvetrains.

    Dyno Results
    Tunnel-Ram Single-Quad
    The CombinationOur ’68 Barracuda is packing a 340 between its framerails. Admittedly, a 13.6:1 test engine is on the extreme end of the “street” scale, but what better to test the limitations of an intake with than a high-rpm, high-compression power plant? The combo is as follows:*’69 340 ci plus 0.040 overbore (346 inches)*Arias forged pistons, 13.6:1 compression*Block half filled with Moroso Hard Block*Eagle I-beam connecting rods*Stock forged-steel crankshaft*Comp solid flat-tappet cam, 263/268 @ 0.050-inch valve lift, 0.640/0.640 after lash*Mopar Performance W-2 iron cylinder heads, ported, 2.02/1.60 valves*Crane 1.6:1 roller-rocker arms*Smith Brothers custom-length pushrods*TTI 171/48-inch headers with TTI 3-inch mandrel-bent exhaust system with Goerlich 3-inch welded mufflers *Mallory HyFire VI digital ignition*MSD billet mechanical-advance distributor*Milodon oil pump and pickup*Milodon 7-quart oil pan
  9. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Kinda neat looking at old Articles of Mopar LA engines Grumpy.

    TTI is the only that survived with Off the shelf 3.00" Inch Dauls.
    GM guys are out of luck now With Torque Tech gone.
  10. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

  11. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

  12. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Cheep China crap will blow up.

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