CS-144 Troubleshooting

Loves302Chevy

"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
HELP Brian,
I realize you are in the middle of getting your Suburban running again for your new job on Monday.

2 months ago, I replaced my CS-144 alternator in my truck when the battery indicator dash light came on. The alternator had NO output. This is the one that had the "lifetime guarantee" from NAPA that they did not honor. I needed the truck running, so I bought a new REMAN. The battery went a week later, but it was past its time, so no big deal. Bought another NAPA battery. Both problems were unrelated.

2 weeks ago, I replaced the gauge cluster because my oil gauge died years ago, and I've been using a mechanical gauge since. The replacement cluster was from a manual trans truck, so I removed the "shift" bulb and tested the rest. The only difference is that the replacement cluster does not have the P R N OD 3 2 1 indicator. I cleaned the connector and gave it a smear of dielectric grease also. No problems since.

In the last week or so, I noticed that the alternator voltage has been wandering around, and holding mostly around 13 volts, instead of the 14.5 - 14.8 I should see on the digital gauge plugged into my lighter socket.
In the last couple of days when I started the truck, both the cluster battery gauge and my digital gauge read battery voltage only (12.3) after starting the engine. It took a couple of minutes for the alternator to start charging.

I got a replacement REMAN alternator from NAPA and swapped it tonight. It read a solid 14.5 volts. I went down the hill and stopped at a friends house. Before I left, I showed him the new alternator. I started the truck to leave and battery voltage only - and it would not come up. All cables are good and connections are tight. I came back to my house and got my hand-held DMM out. I wiggled the field (idiot light) wire and started the engine again. It was charging at 13.89 volts, but there was a groaning noise, and the alternator case was hotter than any other metal under the hood. It was cooking. When I revved the engine, the battery indicator light would come on at about 2500 rpm, and would flash randomly at rpms above that.
It started to rain, so I unplugged the field wire, and shut the hood for the night.

I called my friend Dwayne (GM master mechanic) and he believes it is the new alternator. He said NAPA has changed vendors about 5 times over the years (why I got screwed out of my lifetime guarantee) and his local NAPA will not sell any REMAN alternators because of this - ONLY NEW. He said that they are only replacing what went bad and cleaning them up. So if the regulator went bad, it gets replaced, but not the bearings, etc. Dwawne said to take it back and pay the extra for a NEW one.

SO what do you think..... 2 bad REMAN NAPA alternators, or is it something with the truck?
 
They took the Avalanche Diodes - Rectifier Bridge that were stock in all CS144 Alternators and replaced with substandard parts.

China or Mexico it happened at.

Go to the junkyard .
Pick up a CS144 off a Chevy Van, Car or truck.
They last 200,000-250,000 miles typical.
 
I dont have time current to build you a CS144.
About 1 week I can get it done.
 
I only use Trsnspo Electonics In my Alternator builds Mike.
The Best.
Costs more.
 
Thanks Brian. I just looked at my factory service manual. I will get up early tomorrow and do the tests
for the warning light, to make sure it's not truck related. Then I will see what NAPA can do to rectify this.
I'll stop at the junkyard on the way and inquire. If I can get one there, I will try to make NAPA take them both back.
Then you can build me one if/when you have time. My truck does not require a 200 amp unit. Just a reliable 140 amp.
 
I found this on another forum. It is possible that this is the problem with the latest alternator I installed.

the problem is in the alternator I agree, it's what he calls the spinning rotor syndrome. It's the ONLY part that hasn't been replaced in the alternator. When it's being tested on the machine it not being heated up and spinning fast enough to cause one of the windings in the rotor to short out by the centrifugal force. When I test the alternator I've just been starting it up and letting it idle, check the voltage and give it to the owner. I'm sure if I warmed it up and road test it the thing would of failed on me.
 
I found this on another forum. It is possible that this is the problem with the latest alternator I installed.

the problem is in the alternator I agree, it's what he calls the spinning rotor syndrome. It's the ONLY part that hasn't been replaced in the alternator. When it's being tested on the machine it not being heated up and spinning fast enough to cause one of the windings in the rotor to short out by the centrifugal force. When I test the alternator I've just been starting it up and letting it idle, check the voltage and give it to the owner. I'm sure if I warmed it up and road test it the thing would of failed on me.
I would not pay much attention to what they Read or think Mike.
My late Bud Bill ran his own Auto & Electrical Shop for a long time.
He was a Mechanic like none other.
The Best.
Taught me all he new.
Also was Multi Facet as me.
 
https://www.summitracing.com/search?PageSize=100&SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=200 amp alternator

as Ive pointed out several times here the swap to a 200 amp alternator cures several issues with cooling and ignitions , caused by minimal current flow available,that the stock alternators just don,t handle well.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...uys-don-t-look-at-the-clues.11176/#post-50278

https://store.alternatorparts.com/cs144-series-200-amp-extreme-duty-dual-rectifier-alternator.aspx
 
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I bought a Power Master 140 amp CS130 alternator for my Corvette back in 2007 Grumpy.
XS series black thermal coat.
Special ordered and had to wait for it to be built.
2- week wait.
I was driving to a job in downtown Chicago Southside.
Bullets fly there daily.
Vette was my commuter car and faster than all.

The Powermaster failed 2 months later.
I had to rebuild it myself.
I found Cheap substandard parts inside.
Big disappointment.
I rebuilt it myself with All Transpo.
 
I called NAPA this morning and explained the situation.
They are bringing a brand new alternator for me (not REMAN).
But it will cost about $30 more.

I double-checked. All the wiring in the truck is good. And the battery is new.
 
Ok Mike.
They are trying to make it right for You.
In the past local auto parts stores including NAPA sold local rebuilders alternators & starter motors.
Had to meet stringent standards.

About the time Clinton got in (Bill) things got screwy.
Corporate wanted more profits $....China & Mexico work for $.05 cents an hour labor.

End result you know too well today yourself likewise.
 
I investigated about the Toyota 6-phase alternators being used in Trans Am Land.
They look nice & custom billet endframes.
Priced expensive too.
Watched a You Tube Vid.
CS130 High amp custom Vs 6-phase Toyota renamed alternator.
Voltage drops on both with high amp loads applied on the Dyno Test Cell engine.
Once below 12.6 vdc the alternator is no longer charging the battery.
High amp load is run off the vehicle battery.
Both Alternators actually failed the Performance curve test.
Public dont know any better.

CS144 Delcotron is King of all.

Going to build another CS144 soon Mike for my 1963 Grand Prix.
Torture tested by me.
 
They also didnt spin to 7,000-9,000 rpm crankshaft speeds.
When most alternators blow up.
Racing flat out.
 
I installed the brand new CS-144 alternator. So far, so good. I knew the truck did not have
any wiring problems. But I did the checks in my factory service manual anyways.
NAPA said that they could not do 2 defective returns at once because 1 would automatically
be denied and that store would end up eating the cost. It's not my fault that I got a bad rebuild
that failed in about 5 minutes. But I do understand. So I just have to wait a few weeks for the
first return to clear, and then I can return the 2 month old one, which started this mess.

Brian, would you give a quick explanation of how the alternator changes its output voltage
in relation to temperature changes? My output voltage is higher when the alternator/truck
is cold, which I believe to be correct. And desirable. It's easier to start a warm engine than a
cold one (summer vs winter).
 
There is a Thermistor inside of the CS144 Voltage regulator with a Negative temperature coefficient .
Colder it gets ambient air temps the higher the charging output voltage to its Designed cutoff point.
As temps get warmer voltage drops off as to not boil all the Electrolyte from the Wet Cell Storage Battery on the vehicle.

Modern alternators today are ECM Controlled. Started with Chrysler 2.2 Turbo engine. PWM. Pulse Width Modulated.

Intergral Voltage regulator 10Si Was 1st Used on 1970-1/2 Firebird Trans Am.
1 year only design end frames.
Have to be in the know to spot them.

10 DN Was external voltage regulated.
Mechanical breaker point or Transistor regulator option .
Mechanical Regulator had a special temp sensing Bi Metallic strip of metal.
Resitance varied.
Adjust voltage output according .

All methods vary the Electromagnetic flux line core strength of the Rotating magnetic field.

Easy to obtain 120 VAC if you know how to as I do.
 
Crappy Shitty Diodes in both CS 144 Alternators sold to you prior.
I know from experience Mike.
 
There is a Thermistor inside of the CS144 Voltage regulator with a Negative temperature coefficient .
Colder it gets ambient air temps the higher the charging output voltage to its Designed cutoff point.
As temps get warmer voltage drops off as to not boil all the Electrolyte from the Wet Cell Storage Battery on the vehicle.
Great & Simple explanation. Thanks.

Easy to obtain 120 VAC if you know how to as I do.

I have a pamphlet on doing that.
 
I find it really annoying when I find some rebuilder uses the minimum capacity or cheapest diodes, resistors etc. I doubt the whole sale cost difference in cost when the components are bought in bulk ,between the cheap crap they use and a diode rated at over three times the volt and amp loads would cost 5 cents more each, easily extending the potential life span of the component in some cases years, and the total cost would be under 30 cents
 
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You don't have any idea what's inside unless you build it yourself .
Or if its built step by step live on a Forum.
What I do when opportunity is there for me.
 
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