how many guys have decided not to shoot, at an elk because they were afraid the rifle they were using either did not have the required flat trajectory or required accuracy to get a well placed hit?
EXAMPLE
about 12-14 years ago one of my hunting buddies sent in a 300wby to have the trigger repaired and by the time we were leaving on our hunt he had not gotten in back,he was really upset, but he wanted to go on the hunt he had paid for so he reluctantly borrowed my sako 375 H&H,
375 H&H
I had him sight in at 3.5" high at 100 yards with 300 grain hornady boat tails ,about the 4th day of the hunt we were sitting under a large conifer watching the far canyon slope when a group of elk started trotting thru on that far slope at about 330-350 yards,(he said it was easily 400 yards but I had a range finder) he had the elk in his sights, he had a bi-pod and a good rest, but as I waited he didn,t fire, he was going to pass the shot as he was convinced it was too far for the rifle and caliber,he was using. I said shoot! and assured him it was well within effective range ,he said he had no really idea where to hold at that long range, I said just put the horizontal cross hair just barely into the hair in the spine at the shoulder and the vertical cross hair thru the front shoulder and squeeze off! when he fired the elk dropped almost instantly , he acted amazed, he said he always thought that he would have to hold a couple feet high with a slow velocity cartridge like a 375 H&H , as we walked over to the elk he kept telling me that even with his 300 mag and the 180 grain bullets he regularly used he would have held a bit high on a "400 yard shot"
(yes I chronograph the loads at 2589 fps average)
that and several similar events proved to me that most guys can,t judge range in the field and most don,t fully understand the rifles trajectory or why you sight in a bit high at 100 yards, and it proved to me the value of a compact optical range finder
we all find favorites, youll have to find what works best for you!
and every choice is a compromise, the areas of or in rifle weight, flat trajectory, acceptable recoil, useful, bullet mass and potential impact energy and penetration.
from what Ive seen Id suggest the 270 win with a premium 150 gain bullet, or a 30/06 with a 180 grain makes a dependable choice, especially if recoils an issue.
everyone will compromise in some area and prefer some features more than others, and find what they are comfortable using.
if your looking for a reasonable compromise in rifle weight and recoil yet still having a rifle that works rather well on both deer and elk.
personally I am very willing to carry a bit more rifle weight, and accept a significantly increased level of recoil and I prefer the 340 wby & 375 H&H,
yes Im very well aware I'm in the minority, but no one I hunt with disputes the results,
I have total confidence in the rifles based on decades of almost exclusively, one shot kills.
their objections to owning one are always, centered on ammo and rifle cost,
on the rifle weight and recoil,
no one disputes the lethality, trajectory or penetration.
my rebuttal, is that if 2 extra lbs of rifle weight, or a bit of extra recoil in a rifle you might shoot only a once or couple times on a hunt,
keeps you from comfortably exploring the next canyon, with some old geezer like me, you probably need to eat better and exercise more often.
and the cost of the rifle amortized over the 45 plus years is negligible, hand-loading puts the ammo price in a reasonable range.
Im now 70 years old slower than I was, but more persistent and far more skilled and knowledgeable,
it may take me longer, to get in and out of the canyons, than it did in my 30s, but I know what I'm doing and where to look, and I can still shoot accurately.
you don,t need the latest, fastest , or flattest trajectory, what you need is simply something your comfortable using,
thats accurate,and penetrates well out to at least 300 yards, and something with a well documented record of success,
certainly a 270,win- up to-338 win or something similar with proper ammo meets that requirements
http://www.hornady.com/store/375-Cal-.375-300-gr-BTSP/
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... er&Source=
yeah! as I got older and a bit smarter (now past 60) I tend to think a good deal more about how I,m going to get a dead elk OUT of some canyon BEFORE I shoot rather than after I shoot, Like I usually did in my 20s-30s I,ve spend many years hunting this and surrounding drainage s
become rather used to hunting canyons like this and resigned to the fact that once you shoot your going to spend several days packing out meat in 66-75 lb loads (about the max I know from long experience I can reasonably transport in a back pack)
Ive zeroed all my big game rifles at 3.5" high at 100 yards it works rather well, and Ive had no need to change as I tend to hold low center chest on close shots and out to easily 200 yards on all my rifles it hits very close to the intended impact point
lets look at two fairly different cartridges
my late hunting partner thought the 358 win in his BLR was the ultimate ELK combo, he sighted in at 3.5" high at 100 yards, that gave this trajectory
Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2300 -1.5 0
50 2206 1.91 0
100 2118 3.53
150 2031 3.21
200 1947 0.76
250 1865 -3.98
300 1785 -11.24
350 1708 -21.23
400 1634 -34.2
450 1563 -50.42
500 1494 -70.21
IVE preferred to use my 340 wby resulting in this trajectory
Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2900 -1.5 0
50 2790 1.53
100 2688 3.46
150 2588 4.16
200 2491 3.57
250 2396 1.56
300 2303 -1.96
350 2213 -7.12
400 2124 -14.07
450 2037 -22.96
500 1953 -33.93
obviously the 340 shoots incredibly flat compared to the 358 win
but the advantage is almost non-existent in that neither of us over a period of almost 30 years of hunting almost every year had shots at elk over 250 yards
EXAMPLE
about 12-14 years ago one of my hunting buddies sent in a 300wby to have the trigger repaired and by the time we were leaving on our hunt he had not gotten in back,he was really upset, but he wanted to go on the hunt he had paid for so he reluctantly borrowed my sako 375 H&H,
375 H&H
I had him sight in at 3.5" high at 100 yards with 300 grain hornady boat tails ,about the 4th day of the hunt we were sitting under a large conifer watching the far canyon slope when a group of elk started trotting thru on that far slope at about 330-350 yards,(he said it was easily 400 yards but I had a range finder) he had the elk in his sights, he had a bi-pod and a good rest, but as I waited he didn,t fire, he was going to pass the shot as he was convinced it was too far for the rifle and caliber,he was using. I said shoot! and assured him it was well within effective range ,he said he had no really idea where to hold at that long range, I said just put the horizontal cross hair just barely into the hair in the spine at the shoulder and the vertical cross hair thru the front shoulder and squeeze off! when he fired the elk dropped almost instantly , he acted amazed, he said he always thought that he would have to hold a couple feet high with a slow velocity cartridge like a 375 H&H , as we walked over to the elk he kept telling me that even with his 300 mag and the 180 grain bullets he regularly used he would have held a bit high on a "400 yard shot"
(yes I chronograph the loads at 2589 fps average)
that and several similar events proved to me that most guys can,t judge range in the field and most don,t fully understand the rifles trajectory or why you sight in a bit high at 100 yards, and it proved to me the value of a compact optical range finder
we all find favorites, youll have to find what works best for you!
and every choice is a compromise, the areas of or in rifle weight, flat trajectory, acceptable recoil, useful, bullet mass and potential impact energy and penetration.
from what Ive seen Id suggest the 270 win with a premium 150 gain bullet, or a 30/06 with a 180 grain makes a dependable choice, especially if recoils an issue.
everyone will compromise in some area and prefer some features more than others, and find what they are comfortable using.
if your looking for a reasonable compromise in rifle weight and recoil yet still having a rifle that works rather well on both deer and elk.
personally I am very willing to carry a bit more rifle weight, and accept a significantly increased level of recoil and I prefer the 340 wby & 375 H&H,
yes Im very well aware I'm in the minority, but no one I hunt with disputes the results,
I have total confidence in the rifles based on decades of almost exclusively, one shot kills.
their objections to owning one are always, centered on ammo and rifle cost,
on the rifle weight and recoil,
no one disputes the lethality, trajectory or penetration.
my rebuttal, is that if 2 extra lbs of rifle weight, or a bit of extra recoil in a rifle you might shoot only a once or couple times on a hunt,
keeps you from comfortably exploring the next canyon, with some old geezer like me, you probably need to eat better and exercise more often.
and the cost of the rifle amortized over the 45 plus years is negligible, hand-loading puts the ammo price in a reasonable range.
Im now 70 years old slower than I was, but more persistent and far more skilled and knowledgeable,
it may take me longer, to get in and out of the canyons, than it did in my 30s, but I know what I'm doing and where to look, and I can still shoot accurately.
you don,t need the latest, fastest , or flattest trajectory, what you need is simply something your comfortable using,
thats accurate,and penetrates well out to at least 300 yards, and something with a well documented record of success,
certainly a 270,win- up to-338 win or something similar with proper ammo meets that requirements
http://www.hornady.com/store/375-Cal-.375-300-gr-BTSP/
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... er&Source=
yeah! as I got older and a bit smarter (now past 60) I tend to think a good deal more about how I,m going to get a dead elk OUT of some canyon BEFORE I shoot rather than after I shoot, Like I usually did in my 20s-30s I,ve spend many years hunting this and surrounding drainage s
Ive zeroed all my big game rifles at 3.5" high at 100 yards it works rather well, and Ive had no need to change as I tend to hold low center chest on close shots and out to easily 200 yards on all my rifles it hits very close to the intended impact point
lets look at two fairly different cartridges
my late hunting partner thought the 358 win in his BLR was the ultimate ELK combo, he sighted in at 3.5" high at 100 yards, that gave this trajectory
Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2300 -1.5 0
50 2206 1.91 0
100 2118 3.53
150 2031 3.21
200 1947 0.76
250 1865 -3.98
300 1785 -11.24
350 1708 -21.23
400 1634 -34.2
450 1563 -50.42
500 1494 -70.21
IVE preferred to use my 340 wby resulting in this trajectory
Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2900 -1.5 0
50 2790 1.53
100 2688 3.46
150 2588 4.16
200 2491 3.57
250 2396 1.56
300 2303 -1.96
350 2213 -7.12
400 2124 -14.07
450 2037 -22.96
500 1953 -33.93
obviously the 340 shoots incredibly flat compared to the 358 win
but the advantage is almost non-existent in that neither of us over a period of almost 30 years of hunting almost every year had shots at elk over 250 yards
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