Spareparts
Active Member
Well hey man, Thank you so much!
Gen 6, 454 Rebuild(long)
- Thread starter Spareparts
- Start date
There are actually two calculators, on the 2nd page is a calculator for the IVC if you don't know it. Then it shows you the results on page 1 so you don't have to flip back to see it if you forget.
I didn't understand your dimension of 9.822", so I did the following. You will notice that I took .010 off the OEM deck clearance of .020 leaving .010. I figured you would be doing a clean-up of the block deck.
Engine #1 uses the Lunati 547 cam and works well with the DCR of 7.62 and your goal of using 87 octane gasoline.
Engine #2 uses the Lunati 346 cam and pushes the DCR much higher at 8.21 (93 Octane Area) since the IVC is now 60°, some 10° sooner.
Engine #3 I retard the cam 4°, this drops the DCR to 7.99. Still not enough for 87 octane.
Engine #4 I milled the head to remove 5cc from the combustion chamber, the rotating assembly piston have a 20cc dish and we are back to 4° advanced or IVC of 60°.
So you can see there are several ways that we can adjust the DCR to get where we want to go !!
@Grumpy What's a good DCR for 87 Octane ?
Below is the head gasket that I used for the calculations. They are copper and they say they recommend O-Ringing, but Grumpy and I both have used them without and have had zero problems. They are reusable, so in the long run they could be actually cheaper. I'm on my 3rd install now and now problems.
www.summitracing.com
Below is the rotating assembly I used with the 20cc dished pistons. I went with balanced assembly.
www.summitracing.com
.
I didn't understand your dimension of 9.822", so I did the following. You will notice that I took .010 off the OEM deck clearance of .020 leaving .010. I figured you would be doing a clean-up of the block deck.
Engine #1 uses the Lunati 547 cam and works well with the DCR of 7.62 and your goal of using 87 octane gasoline.
Engine #2 uses the Lunati 346 cam and pushes the DCR much higher at 8.21 (93 Octane Area) since the IVC is now 60°, some 10° sooner.
Engine #3 I retard the cam 4°, this drops the DCR to 7.99. Still not enough for 87 octane.
Engine #4 I milled the head to remove 5cc from the combustion chamber, the rotating assembly piston have a 20cc dish and we are back to 4° advanced or IVC of 60°.
So you can see there are several ways that we can adjust the DCR to get where we want to go !!
@Grumpy What's a good DCR for 87 Octane ?
Below is the head gasket that I used for the calculations. They are copper and they say they recommend O-Ringing, but Grumpy and I both have used them without and have had zero problems. They are reusable, so in the long run they could be actually cheaper. I'm on my 3rd install now and now problems.
CHEVROLET SCE Gaskets P143232 SCE Pro Copper Head Gaskets | Summit Racing
Free Shipping - SCE Pro Copper Head Gaskets with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Head Gaskets at Summit Racing.
Below is the rotating assembly I used with the 20cc dished pistons. I went with balanced assembly.
1998 CHEVROLET SCAT Engine Components 1-91710BE Scat Engine Rotating Assemblies | Summit Racing
Free Shipping - Scat Engine Rotating Assemblies with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Engine Rotating Kits at Summit Racing.
Spareparts
Active Member
Thanks! Certainly some things to ponder i had no idea about !
Spareparts
Active Member
The rotating assembly you posted lists the pistons as being domed.
I was under the assumption you should not use domed pistons with bbc Vortec heads?
I was under the assumption you should not use domed pistons with bbc Vortec heads?
calculate required octane for compression ratio
What else influences your car's octane requirements? IF YOU DON,T LIKE READING SUB-LINKS, AND LOOKING AT CHARTS , AND DOING A BIT OF MATH 'AND INDIVIDUAL CALCULATIONS, YOUR UN-LIKELY TO BENEFIT FROM MOST OF THE THREADS, ON THIS WEB SITE! LIKE IN MOST AREAS ITS KNOWLEDGE AND THE ABILITY TO THINK...
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measuring piston dome volume
\" how do you measure piston dome volume" I just bought a 454 from a yard sale, the seller has no clue as to the pistons used" https://www.summitracing.com/newsandevents/calcsandtools/compression-calculator http://www.grumpysperformance.com/cop2.png...
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some basic bbc math, to get you thinking about your potential dream bbc combos.
I recently had a discussion with one of the local guys concerning what heads and rotating assembly he should buy now that he recently purchased a tall deck (10.2") big block chevy block. he has a perfectly good 427 forged crank (3.76" stroke) but hes seriously thinking of buying a (4.25" stroke)...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
Dynamic And Static Compression Help
Hello everyone. I have something i am needing help with. And i would be ever so grateful for any advice. I have a 1994 chevy 3/4 ton 4x4. Extended cab it has 3.73 gears and a built 4l60E trans. 1800 stall. The engine in it now is getting pretty tired and i am fixing to start putting...
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Basic Math On Fuel/air Ratios That Gets Ignored
1 cubic foot of air at standard temperature and pressure assuming average composition weighs approximately 0.0807 lbs. (at sea level) that simply means it takes 12.4 cubic feet of air to equal one pound, your best engine torque is generally found at a fuel/air ratio near 12.6:1 , thats 12.6...
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dynamic vs static compression
Blows the theory out of the water that short rods give better detonation resistance. The link article & Trigonometry show Long Rods do it instead.
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another 496bbc
The Higher the Static compression with a Race Cam the more bottom end torque that is present. Has to run on 110 motor octane race gas. E85. 100 LL Av gas. Timing pulled back 4 degrees.
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Bbc Build Advice
I know this topic has been posted extensively, and I am very appreciative of that. I'm having a bit of difficulty sorting through all the material. Even though I can make my way through most repairs I have never built an engine and don't plan to with this project. What I'm looking for is...
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Spareparts
Active Member
I read most of these links and spend a hour or two every night reading but man i got to say.
There is simply more valuable information than i will ever be able to read and absorb here.
There is simply more valuable information than i will ever be able to read and absorb here.
it took me decades to learn a decent amount of engine building skills ,and collect the tools and experience it required.
(to do it correctly)
yes Ive built over a 100 plus engines, and helped a good many of the people I hung out with,
build their cars and learn skills like welding, body work, engine assembly, engine tuning etc.
and I figure If I can help speed up your individual learning curves and not have you be forced to stumble along, almost blindly at times, sifting through tons of irreverent or useless data or just B.S. I've seen posted, in various forums and magazines...
at least I hope this forum and the content will help,.
and Id like to help you avoid constantly paying various greedy machine shops that would vastly prefer you constantly pay them extra to do things you can most likely do better or faster yourself, it should help you avoid the years I wasted in the learning process.
look I am unlikely to be here in the following decades, due to age, so I may as well pass on as much useful info while I can do so!
It would be selfish to not help others , that's just not me! ( I want to help everyone I can ,
avoid making mistakes , or constantly paying for stuff you can do faster and better once you learn a few basic skills.)
(there's also some satisfaction in teaching people how to verify the machine work or tuning works been done correctly,
that the work was required or could be avoided or pointing out how easy it is in many cases for you to do some things yourself)
related threads
related threads
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/precision-measuring-tools.1390/#post-68861
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-parts-and-a-logical-plan.7722/#post-68651
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/finding-a-machine-shop.321/#post-59253
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/block-prep.125/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/parts-prep-cleaning.6255/#post-51146
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/how-to-find-a-decent-machine-shop.800/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bare-minimum-tools.11026/#post-51843
(to do it correctly)
yes Ive built over a 100 plus engines, and helped a good many of the people I hung out with,
build their cars and learn skills like welding, body work, engine assembly, engine tuning etc.
and I figure If I can help speed up your individual learning curves and not have you be forced to stumble along, almost blindly at times, sifting through tons of irreverent or useless data or just B.S. I've seen posted, in various forums and magazines...
at least I hope this forum and the content will help,.
and Id like to help you avoid constantly paying various greedy machine shops that would vastly prefer you constantly pay them extra to do things you can most likely do better or faster yourself, it should help you avoid the years I wasted in the learning process.
look I am unlikely to be here in the following decades, due to age, so I may as well pass on as much useful info while I can do so!
It would be selfish to not help others , that's just not me! ( I want to help everyone I can ,
avoid making mistakes , or constantly paying for stuff you can do faster and better once you learn a few basic skills.)
(there's also some satisfaction in teaching people how to verify the machine work or tuning works been done correctly,
that the work was required or could be avoided or pointing out how easy it is in many cases for you to do some things yourself)
related threads
related threads
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/precision-measuring-tools.1390/#post-68861
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-parts-and-a-logical-plan.7722/#post-68651
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/finding-a-machine-shop.321/#post-59253
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/block-prep.125/
Hello, 91 corvette building a 383
Im building a 383 for my 91 Corvette, looking for info on different combination that will make this a quick street car that may see some track time.
garage.grumpysperformance.com
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/parts-prep-cleaning.6255/#post-51146
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/how-to-find-a-decent-machine-shop.800/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bare-minimum-tools.11026/#post-51843
Hello GRUMPYVETTE HERE
read this related linked info http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/finding-related-links-and-info.10255/ http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/just-because-you-see-limited-new-threads.5128/...
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basic threads (with sub links)that will provide you with a decent start on engine builds
TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)
It's time to get this party started! Last night I picked up some of my parts, the only thing left to come in, is the Mahle piston and rings. This is just the first order, mostly the things I need right now to get started. It's been over ten years since I've driven this car and I am SOOO ready to...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
block prep.
you really should read these links for a lot more USEFUL info, on block pre prep one of the least discussed & acknowledged, and yet more common reasons engines fail , is related to micro metallic crud left in the engine while its being assembled, especially engine's built on newly machined...
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block choice
grumpy I have read several threads on this and other sites that strongly suggest the original production Chevy small block 4 bolt main cap block, is not the best choice for building a decent performance engine, due to the thin casting and tendency to have the main caps shift or squirm under...
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oil system mods that help
heres a short list REMEMBER the object or goal in building and maintaining the lubrication system is too maintain a 100% dependable pressurized cooling flow of lubricant to the bearings, rockers ,valves etc. your most important tool, is your ability to think about how things are supposed to...
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basic info on your v8 lube system
now think it thru, HERES SOME USEFUL INFO, that might help in this thread and the sub links http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/crank-case-blow-bye-and-related-info.16790/ the first thing Id be doing here, if your not getting a strong oil flow at each rocker while your turn...
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sellecting valve springs, and setting up the valve train
How do you determine the spring pressure needed to keep the valves under control for a given lift, duration, and max rpm. It might take you several hours to read thru all the links and sub links but its time very well spent as it could save your engine from destruction and save you thousands of...
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checking piston to valve clearances
this is an old post I got asked to repost, naturally the first step is to install and correctly degree in your cam, http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/measuring-piston-dome-volume.17255/...
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sellecting cylinder heads
READ THIS THREAD AND LINKs and SUB LINKS AS ITS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTANDING SOME FACTORS, and theres a ton of useful info in the links read these threads and sub-links also, as they contain good info, if you fail to read thru the sub links youll miss a ton of useful info, don,t think published...
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degree it in correctly and get it to last,cam install info,
IM frequently asked (why bother degreeing in a cam, the timing set comes with index marks to install it?) it basically comes down to, a question of do you accept a random install where the timing can be almost any place randomly or do you insist on maximizing the engines potential and know...
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semi fool proof cam sellection
you can start with this, the SIX cam manufacturers POSTED OR LINKED BELOW that have proven to be dependable, the soft ware below might prove useful, so use it to get a base line INFO YOU NEED IF YOUR selecting the correct cam for YOUR combo FIRST!!>>>>>>ANY AND ALL CAM MANUFACTURERS WILL need...
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resistance to rotation, of crank durring short blk assembly
Ok youve just installed your crankshaft in the engine block, with new main bearings and everything's well coated with assembly lube,and oil, and youve torqued down the main caps to spec. in at least three stages, and then gone back and rechecked the studs or bolts per the manufacturers...
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assembling and installing connecting rods/pistons
look closely at the connecting rods one edge of the main bearing are is beveled noticeably more than the other that beveled side faces away from the rod its paired with because it matches the slight radiased bevel of the crank journal many builder class pistons are designed to go in, in either...
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types of crankshaft steel
I POSTED THIS BEFORE, when shopping for a rotating assembly , it pays too carefully compare features, read the fine print carefully ,and do some careful pre-purchase research. price is NOT the most important consideration, value per dollar spent, quality and durability would be far higher on my...
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ring gapping and basic piston ring info YOULL NEED
YES YOU NEED TO READ THRU THE LINKS THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE THERE FOR...AND THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF USEFUL INFO IN THOSE LINKS, don,t get over whelmed, make a list and test adjust correct or replace each problem, and check it off the list then move to the next issue, its a finite list and theres...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
some basic bbc math, to get you thinking about your potential dream bbc combos.
I recently had a discussion with one of the local guys concerning what heads and rotating assembly he should buy now that he recently purchased a tall deck (10.2") big block chevy block. he has a perfectly good 427 forged crank (3.76" stroke) but hes seriously thinking of buying a (4.25" stroke)...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
calculate fuel injector size
https://www.corvettemods.com/C4-C5-Corvette-1985-2004-Fuel-Injectors---Set-of-8---96lbhr---1000cc_p_17958.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIq8HDsqO69gIVoQaKAx1uHwGmEAEYASABEgKWQPD_BwE be sure you calculate the correct size injector and be sure you order the correct size injectors you need be sure to...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
Oops, you are right! I saw the -20cc and thought dish piston. Good catch, that will not work for you.
You can't buy it as a kit, but they make a Icon piston with a 11.5cc dish, this is now your engine #4. It yields a SCR/DCR of 9.22/7.69. Just have to buy the individual components or call Scat direct and tell them what you need and see if they will sell to you at the kit price. That's of course if you NEED the 11.5cc dish piston.
www.summitracing.com
I had all the info I needed so I put the data into Dynomation 6.03.27 and ran a couple of simulations with your two Lunati camshafts to see what the difference would be. I found some flow numbers for your heads on the Stan Weiss website. Your heads is the last line "L29". For the exhaust I used stock manifolds with mufflers and cats, with headers the numbers would jump up considerably.
www.users.interport.net
Anyway just alittle something for you to chew on. Mull it over and let us know what you think and don't hesitate to ask any questions that this info brings up. We Love Questions !!!
ICON IC947KTD.030 ICON Premium Forged Piston and Ring Kits | Summit Racing
Free Shipping - ICON Premium Forged Piston and Ring Kits with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Pistons at Summit Racing.
I had all the info I needed so I put the data into Dynomation 6.03.27 and ran a couple of simulations with your two Lunati camshafts to see what the difference would be. I found some flow numbers for your heads on the Stan Weiss website. Your heads is the last line "L29". For the exhaust I used stock manifolds with mufflers and cats, with headers the numbers would jump up considerably.
Stan Weiss' - Cylinder Head Flow Data at 28 Inches of Water -- DFW / FLW Flow Files for use with Engine Simulation Software
Cylinder Head Flow Data @ 28 Inches of Water -- DFW / FLW Flow Files for use with Engine Simulation Software
www.users.interport.net
Anyway just alittle something for you to chew on. Mull it over and let us know what you think and don't hesitate to ask any questions that this info brings up. We Love Questions !!!
you could easily boost the static compression enough to get a bit more compression as it will help the power/torque
As a general rule, the best available pump gas will work with an 8.0:1 dynamic compression ratio.
www.motortrend.com
As a general rule, the best available pump gas will work with an 8.0:1 dynamic compression ratio.
Dynamic Compression - Hot Rod Magazine
How to calculate dynamic compression on a small-block chevy
dynamic vs static compression
Blows the theory out of the water that short rods give better detonation resistance. The link article & Trigonometry show Long Rods do it instead.
garage.grumpysperformance.com
tips on building a peanut port big block combo
PEANUT PORT HEADS WITH RECTANGLE PORT GASKET ABOVE 346236 1975-87 454 Open 113cc .PEANUT SLIGHTLY LARGER, COMMON EARLY OVAL PORT HEADS WITH RECTANGLE PORT GASKET BELOW polishing and smoothing these combustion chambers,surfaces, removing the sharp ridges etc, has shown noticeable benefits in...
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Spareparts
Active Member
Lots and lots of info! and reading. Decisions to make but one i do know.
I ain't buying no $936 dollar set of pistons
My budget will just not allow it if i want to get it done before next year or maybe the next.
My engine had flat top pistons in it with 2 valve reliefs from the factory.
If i need to i will stay with the stock 4.00 stroke and bore of 4.280 i can piece together what i need as it seems scat does not make a kit with the exact parts i need from what i can find.
I ain't buying no $936 dollar set of pistons
My budget will just not allow it if i want to get it done before next year or maybe the next.My engine had flat top pistons in it with 2 valve reliefs from the factory.
If i need to i will stay with the stock 4.00 stroke and bore of 4.280 i can piece together what i need as it seems scat does not make a kit with the exact parts i need from what i can find.
These pistons are not forged, but are Hypereutectic. The rings are 1/32" wider at 5/64" then what you have been looking at. The dish is considerably bigger at 18cc. You would have to mill the heads some to bring the compression back up.
BUT, this all hinges on the camshaft you choose and what the IVC is. It's entirely possible you don't want a dished piston.
8 Pistons Only, No Rings
CHEVROLET KB KB287.030 KB Performance Pistons | Summit Racing
Free Shipping - KB Performance Pistons with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Pistons at Summit Racing.
Spareparts
Active Member
So if i stay with the 489 it looks like i just need to find a cam that will work for my rpm range.
This is the rotating assembly i will order as soon as my block is back from the machine shop. Here
Looks like this might work?
Wish i would have measured the piston/deck height before i took it apart. I was surprised at how low they sat at TDC.
This is the rotating assembly i will order as soon as my block is back from the machine shop. Here
Looks like this might work?
Wish i would have measured the piston/deck height before i took it apart. I was surprised at how low they sat at TDC.
Attachments
What camshaft are you using or should I say what is the IVC that is in your plan?
There are many different cams available ... Crane, Crower, Erson and Isky are quality companies. Sorry, I know this makes your decision more complicated. Just take your time and we can work your way thru the possibilties. I can do the simulations if needed. Just takes time and patience to narrow the choices.
We are here to help, just let us know how or where you need it !
There are many different cams available ... Crane, Crower, Erson and Isky are quality companies. Sorry, I know this makes your decision more complicated. Just take your time and we can work your way thru the possibilties. I can do the simulations if needed. Just takes time and patience to narrow the choices.
We are here to help, just let us know how or where you need it !
Spareparts
Active Member
Cam is the lunati 0347 I think i have the numbers really close but not positive.
Im just looking at Lunati but i really don't care about manufacture if they are reputable.
Looks like this come down to a workable cam choice.
The details of the parts are listed at the bottom of the pic i posted.
Im just looking at Lunati but i really don't care about manufacture if they are reputable.
Looks like this come down to a workable cam choice.
The details of the parts are listed at the bottom of the pic i posted.
How did you get a "Deck Height" of .030" ?
The quench distance should be between .042" - .050", yours is .083". This helps with detonation.
Quench Distance = Deck Height + Gasket Thickness
www.enginelabs.com
The quench distance should be between .042" - .050", yours is .083". This helps with detonation.
Quench Distance = Deck Height + Gasket Thickness
Quench: Unlocking Performance Squished Between the Piston and Head
Quench is the clearance between the piston and cylinder head at TDC. It can affect engine effeciency and performance, if you truly understand it.
I don't find a Lunati cam with the part number 10010347 ?
Spareparts
Active Member
Spareparts
Active Member
No third cam. I have only been looking at the two 10346, 10347.
I do not know where the 10547 came in at. I looked it up and it is the same as 10347.
The 10347 is machined for a gen6 bbc cam plate retainer. The 10547 is not machined for a cam plate.
I think this is better?
I do not know where the 10547 came in at. I looked it up and it is the same as 10347.
The 10347 is machined for a gen6 bbc cam plate retainer. The 10547 is not machined for a cam plate.
I think this is better?