how many guys know where some rebuild-able muscle car sits

Grumpy

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
I know from asking that theres dozens of guys with muscle cars in various stages of decay or being refurbished in garages, car ports and back yards that never seem to get the attention they deserve,
any near you?
any pictures?
have you ever seriously tried to buy them or even get a price quote?
one reason I bring this up is that a guy near me had a 1965 lemans I have tried to buy on several occasions in his car port, I stopped by several times to inquire if he might sell the car, I went by this weekend and his ex-wife answered the door and told me , I was a few days late!
he sold the car and the new owner was going to pick it up later that day,she was not 100% sure of the price, but quoted me " it went for $300-$350 which was a bit more than the scrap yard was willing to pay" yeah! I should have kept closer ties and yes I tried to buy it from the new owner, but he wanted a good deal more than I could afford to pay, MUCH MORE THAN, SEVERAL TIMES THE PURCHASE PRICE, roughly 8 times what he paid, $2500
 
She probably told you that low price just to irritate you. They likely had more than just you coming uninvited to their home asking about that car.
 
There's literally hundreds of thousands of cars sitting everywhere all around the country. I've bought a bunch of them over the years. $2,500 for a '65 2 door Lemans worth restoring might actually have been a reasonable price. He may have told his ex he only got 350.00 for it but actually got 2 grand which he might have been supposed to split with her. We don't know the whole story. Not that what he sold it for has any bearing on the current market value of the car.

If you got the car for $300.00 what would you do with it? A gallon of good PPG primer is $300.00 now. Would you spend 20-30 40 thousand restoring it? Or would it simply sit at your place instead of his?

I ask guys all the time. "If you can't afford the buy in how do you expect to pay for the restoration or performance build?" I have made this mistake myself! They don't listen. Buy car because "It's a DEAL!", take apart, let sit, sell at a loss. It's a waste of their time and money, plus it's depressing to admit defeat and sell the dream.

Don't you have a Corvette project that could use a $300.00 investment?
 
Amen brother!

I have a 1965 GTO convertible with factory A/C. 100% complete body and trim rust-free without dents. New top frame , new pump with everything included except top cover. Factory Blue, Black Top, Black interior. All glass is complete and perfect. Seals are good. Floor pans are rust free. No Filler on any body panel. Tires are Silvertown F70 dated 10/68 at 10/32 remaining tread. (May have flat spots). Rear is unknown, ratio dated 3/65. Left rear shock may have leak. Left rear wheel brake cylinder has leak. Right door needs hinge pin/bushing replaced. Battery cable to starter may need replacing. Dent (small) on right side door SS sill plate. Radio ant. Cable end broken.

Missing motor and trans, radiator interior seats, center console, carpet, door panels, visors and headliners. Emergency brake cable, hub caps, right side wing window handle and radio.

43,465 documented original miles, 3 owners, 3 copies of titles, build sheet, Protect-O plate. 1st owner's complete dealer service records, 2nd owner saved service records including 51 oil change receipts. PHS records included.

I paid $7,500 plus $800 shipping and title transfer. There was a nom included, I sold it recently. Original motor is sitting in Millerstown, TX sold separately. I paid $150 to a collision center here in PA to measure and confirm factory specs and check for damage or repairs (all good - documents included).

I will sell to a friend for $7,500. Now, spring time will be $9,000. FIRM!
I give up trying to find reliable shops.
 
I am finished ever buying projects! Have you seen that car show on tv called Desert Car Kings? They have a huge junk yard and they build cars only by what they have already in stock in their yard for parts. other than shop owners doing restorations for retail clients, how can Joe Smoe make any money off of project cars? I'd like to know!
 
NOT A TA said:
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If you got the car for $300.00 what would you do with it? A gallon of good PPG primer is $300.00 now. Would you spend 20-30 40 thousand restoring it? Or would it simply sit at your place instead of his?

I ask guys all the time. "If you can't afford the buy in how do you expect to pay for the restoration or performance build?" I have made this mistake myself! They don't listen. Buy car because "It's a DEAL!", take apart, let sit, sell at a loss. It's a waste of their time and money, plus it's depressing to admit defeat and sell the dream.

Don't you have a Corvette project that could use a $300.00 investment?
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I'm going to paste this to my bathroom mirror and read it before I start the day!

Do you have any other Affirmations?
 
yeah! its seems that lately while Im forced to support my son and his family that I'm always broke!
so even if I could buy the car cheaply it would just have too wait until things improve (like the corvette has for the last 5 years)
 
This is a good price, I'm not making anything in turn. A True 65 GTO vert with a/c is surely worth twice what a Lemans is worth.
I looked at dozens of pos 65 GTOs in bad, rusted cond with countless unknown problems for $10,000 to $15,000 for a project car. Since there is no bodywork needed, $15,000 would finish vey nicely and these cars are getting $40 to $50,000 at auction.
 
Grumpy said:
yeah! its seems that lately while Im forced to support my son and his family that I'm always broke!
so even if I could buy the car cheaply it would just have too wait until things improve (like the corvette has for the last 5 years)
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Tell the truth Grumpy and stop blaming your family. You don't even charge a respectable fee working on everybody's cars. I'll bet you told us in more than 100 posts the hairdresser fee you charge, a small rate that out of which must cover wear and tear or even replacement on your tools and equipment, trash removal/waste charge or your expensive garage, your laundry and electricity.
I realize that you can't perform work like a dealer or professional garage because you don't have help lifting heavy parts, a solid 8 hr. Work Shift uninterrupted Mon to Friday or parts delivery just to name a few things, but my god man, kids cutting grass make make more than you charge and they have little to no overhead. An engineer with 45 years plus or minus experience people should be happy to pay 1/3 to 1/2 of what an average shop charges and you could probably have some money in your pockets.
I would happy as a fag in Boy's town if I had somebody that would work on my cars for double what you charge currently!
 
chromebumpers said:
Tell the truth Grumpy and stop blaming your family. You don't even charge a respectable fee working on everybody's cars. I'll bet you told us in more than 100 posts the hairdresser fee you charge, a small rate that out of which must cover wear and tear or even replacement on your tools and equipment, trash removal/waste charge or your expensive garage, your laundry and electricity.
I realize that you can't perform work like a dealer or professional garage because you don't have help lifting heavy parts, a solid 8 hr. Work Shift uninterrupted Mon to Friday or parts delivery just to name a few things, but my god man, kids cutting grass make make more than you charge and they have little to no overhead. An engineer with 45 years plus or minus experience people should be happy to pay 1/3 to 1/2 of what an average shop charges and you could probably have some money in your pockets.
I would happy as a fag in Boy's town if I had somebody that would work on my cars for double what you charge currently!
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Grumpy does it out of love for his talents and to keep young and healthy and wise, not rich. JMHO
 
yeah! you guys got me there, I obviously have a character flaw, reguarding charging for work done!
I'm certainly not into this hobby, or helping other people, as a source of income,
I enjoy teaching and watching the frequently amazed reaction when guys find they can solve problems or build something far better than they might have imagined , but as a source of income....well its never been a good personal source, probably because I don,t feel charging for something I enjoy doing is really justified, plus I remember dozens of times I was over charged for automotive repair work, in the past and I feel, in many cases I don,t want to stunt or restrict , some young guys enjoyment of his car or prevent them from learning based on a lack of funds if I can help.

one of the reasons I started the site was that I got so frustrated , dealing with people ,Ive ordered parts from or paid to do work, and machine shops that, did crappy work, that
I've dealt with in the past, that in my opinion, either over charge, or give out bad , purposely wrong or only minimal information, just so the younger guys will have difficulty or require a return to a shop, that generates them more cash flow.
in many cases, when I was younger, I got frustrated too the point I wanted to scream, as it was all to obvious that many of the repair shops dealerships, and machine shops were only interested in draining your wallet and refused to answer questions, or allow me to watch what was being done,(and many charged for work that was never done, or done very poorly)
if a repair shop or machine shop had taken a few minutes to explain my choices or explain the difference in part quality, what my options were, and choices I had, or explained the correct installation or adjustment, I could have learned a great deal faster how to correctly maintain,tune and race a car, and how to do my own repair work, make the correct parts choices so parts seldom failed, IF I had an honest mentor, that showed me what I needed to check or verify and showed me why work was necessary, I could and would have learned a great deal faster, and that of course was not what they wanted
so I decided to make it a whole lot easier on the younger guys by starting this site,probably partly due to past frustration , dealing with people solely intent on making money vs helping others
yes I occasionally did find a few older experienced mentors , willing to teach a younger guy, but they were and are few and far between, so I decided to help where I can.
I've always had a great deal of curiosity, and a bit of competitive streak, about learning how and why things mechanical work, and being a tool junky and gear head certainly doesn,t help, as I've frequently taken on projects just to see if I could noticeably improve results over what I see other guys accomplish.
I've built and raced a few corvettes,G.T.O.s ROAD RUNNERS, CAMAROS, Ive build or rebuild over a hundred engines, swapped suspensions, and learned on the way.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/hello-grumpyvette-here.278/
 
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If you don't charge for your time it lowers the perceived value.

Some times you're actually keeping the young guns from learning. Lets say there's a local that comes to you for getting stuff welded. Each time you explain and demonstrate. Perhaps you have them try running a couple beads. Nice young guy who's polite and appreciative so you say "Na, don't worry about it it, you don't owe me anything."

The young gun now has no reason to buy a welder because anything they really "need" welded they can bring over Grumpys. Meanwhile, if you gave the same instructions explained the costs of equipment and materials and CHARGED for your time and materials they'd see the value and costs associated. They might then get a welder of their own since it isn't free at Grumpys and they would learn much more than just watching Grumpy. So, you're not necessarily helping them learn long term by doing stuff too cheap or free.
 
You really want to get the Corvette project finished before you're too old to do the work or enjoy it? I would strongly consider allowing advertisers on this forum. I understand the ideal concept of not having "sponsors" that might somehow influence content or clutter the site a bit BUT it sure would be nice to finish the Vette wouldn't it? Imagine the site putting money IN your pocket instead of taking it out every month. Sponsors increase the perceived value of the forum, reduce the financial strain, and it's easier than asking for donations. I'm sure it would feel better to get paid for creating and maintaining the forum than wondering why folks won't donate enough to cover the costs.
 
NOT A TA said:
If you don't charge for your time it lowers the perceived value.

Some times you're actually keeping the young guns from learning. Lets say there's a local that comes to you for getting stuff welded. Each time you explain and demonstrate. Perhaps you have them try running a couple beads. Nice young guy who's polite and appreciative so you say "Na, don't worry about it it, you don't owe me anything."

The young gun now has no reason to buy a welder because anything they really "need" welded they can bring over Grumpys. Meanwhile, if you gave the same instructions explained the costs of equipment and materials and CHARGED for your time and materials they'd see the value and costs associated. They might then get a welder of their own since it isn't free at Grumpys and they would learn much more than just watching Grumpy. So, you're not necessarily helping them learn long term by doing stuff too cheap or free.
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I was working as a contractor on an Army base and had access to the best equipment money could buy Retired now. Had a small aluminum welding project and went to a shop to get it done. Would have taken less than 2 minutes with the mig welder. Said it would be $80.00 to start the welder. I said no thanks, and went and bought a $2000.00 Miller Automatic 200 for $2000.00 with the mig gun and extra tanks just so I would never have to ask anyone again to weld for me. Use it more than I did the one at work for home projects. Already had a Lincoln stick welder I had bought in 1973 and torch outfit. I'll just pass it on to my children and grand children when I actually quit doing work.

Of all who I had time to teach anything to, they seem to come back and steal what you have, so I quit helping others and don't let many people in my shop so they can tell their friends about it and they come to steal from you.
 
All good, & VALID points from a different perspective!
 
Not A TA is right on the money and practically the same as I stated before.

My #1 hobby is repairing fine art (old paintings), sometimes I get requests from area art museums to restore a significant painting. It would be impossible to get these jobs I love so much if I didn't charge at least the going rate or more.
Nearly 14 years ago I was working on a rather important Painting by a famous Bucks County Artist Daniel Garber.
As careful as could possibly be, an accident happened late one night. Needing a bathroom break and upon leaving the shop my cat slipped through the door unknown to me at the time. When I returned my cat was on the table. She got scared and scrambled, getting her claw stuck in a cleaning cloth she pulled a can of naphtha flipped upside down across the near priceless painting. I tried cleaning the mess but the damage was beyond my experience and tools. The painting was shipped to the Met in NY and repaired there. Because I charge for my work I was able to afford insurance to cover freak accidents such as this.
 
If you want to work for next to nothing then I suggest a disclaimer be signed (if one even exists) for anybody on your property and their car or truck. Accidents can happen to anybody, smart or not, rich or poor. What's that you say? "good O'l Charles wouldn't ever sue me" maybe not, but his wife might, when Doctor and hospital bills can't be paid - he might.
Your wife is on the dead isn't she? That makes her your partner equally to share and be named in any suit. Both of you will have to file bankruptcy to avoid losing what you have. Have you been reporting what little income you do get? Wait until you get your first unreasonable "friend" who makes a call to the IRS on you. Hope you have some money stashed to pay what the IRS "says" you owe for unclaimed income.
We all just work for just the nicest of people and we are all perfect mechanics but funny, unbelievable stuff happens.

Be the electrician wiring a house undergoing rehab. The HVAC contractor working there misses something and the heater caused an accident harming people or property or both. A Subrogation attorney takes everyone that worked on this property as a substitute for the Un-insured HVAC contractor that actually caused the problem. As one of the contractors on this house you better have the insurance that pays your attorney fees - all the deposition days and court time and transportation is on you.

I knew a young guy, Jimmy and his new bride months into their new auto shop lose everything and their house down payment because JiffyLube didn't properly secure the master brake cover while on an appointment one morning prior to Jimmy doing a State inspection late that afternoon. The brakes were not enough to stop the car later that same day and there was a bad accident.
 
again, a valid idea worth considering carefully!
 
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