I've always been rather amazed at some peoples attitudes toward mechanics

Discussion in 'Electrical and Ignition: Repairs and Modifications' started by Grumpy, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    I've always been rather amazed at some peoples attitudes toward mechanics, and generally
    "guys that are rather helpful and knowledgeable in the automotive hobby"
    I know that if your a "car guy" you'll have had at least a few family members or neighbors ask you, too look at their car on occasion.



    as most of you will come to realize automotive diagnostic skill is mostly science, part art,
    and a great deal of hands on experience helps,you'll need some basic diagnostic tools and a good understanding of how the automotive sub-systems work,
    but a logical step by step, isolate and test mentality is critical,
    you can,t assume a damn thing.

    one of the local guys dropped by to ask me if I would look at his 2005 Toyota corolla which he says ran just fine yesterday, but failed to start this morning.
    well I agreed to give it quick look, and I brought over my code scanner , pressure/vacuum gauge,and a multi meter.
    the first thing I did was to turn on the head lights and ask him to try to start the car, as generally if its a bad battery connection or weak battery charge, the head lights and frequently the dash gauges will dim noticeably under the increased amp loads.
    the multi meter shower 12.87 volts and no significant change when the ignition key was turned.
    well turning the key did NOTHING,
    no click from the starter and no lights dimming...nothing, so I pulled trouble codes and found only that it showed their may be a problem with the emissions/evaporator system.
    Now That,s not going to be the source of the no start issues, So, I pulled a dip-stick too see if the oil, or lack of oil, or any coolant in the oil could tell me anything , ..nothing there, and the oil level and condition looked reasonably good.
    So,I started checking the electrical fuses,
    as I could not hear the tank fuel pump run and
    I noticed,the security system red blinker light the dash, was not coming on.
    this leads me to think the security system may be a factor, in the no start condition, as the starter is not even clicking.

    all through , me having worked through this check list the owner seems to be less than pleased that I can,t throw a hand full of magic, fairy dust on the car and instantly cure the problem.
    I suggested that it would be helpful if he owned a factory shop manual.......he thought that was absurd.
    I will continue to diagnose the issue at least for awhile....depending on the owners attitude of course ,

    but asking for mechanical help and diagnostic time, and having someone experienced, who is willing to provide free diagnostic time ...
    and the owner of the car having an attitude issue, because the guy testing and diagnosing can,t instantly cure the problem,
    seems rather odd to my way of thinking.



    starter solenoid contacts are cheap and easily replaced

    http://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-1-dig ... 98674.html
    a vacuum and fuel pressure gauge is useful
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  2. Loves302Chevy

    Loves302Chevy "One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."

    You forgot to wave your hands over the car while saying the magic words.

    Tell him to look for youtube videos.
  3. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

  4. Mark Bradley

    Mark Bradley Da guy in Newbury

    I have not although I want to expand on your assessment.
    One thing that a good mechanic offers is the ability to provide abstract thinking.
    Not willing to jump to conclusions but be holistic.

    Indycars likes this.
  5. T-Test

    T-Test Well-Known Member

    I stopped "HELPING" others for that very reason. They want me to "FIX" their auto, leave it and I'll tell you how much you owe me.

    Ever heard--nothin's FREE!!!! Never had any "GOOD"friends that didn't take advantage of me or my knowledge/wealth.
  6. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    ok after testing the relays and fuses it was determined to be the starter assembly,
    he ordered one from rock auto
    ABOUT 5 DAYS AGO, for about $120 delivered,

    it arrived today so I did the starter replacement and when I was done it started up and ran flawlessly.

    btw too replace the starter, you'll obviously need a 10-mm box end wrench a 12-mm combo box and open end wrench, a ratchet with several extensions and 10-mm,12-mm,14 -mm sockets , and of course the battery positive connection should be disconnected, you simply need too remove the plastic electrical cooling fan assembly, after disconnecting the upper drivers side coolant radiator hose and the pass side over flow tank drain hose and a lower 1/4" coolant drain hose.
    then the fan shroud assembly from the rear of the radiator assembly to get the minimum access required,
    once thats done the electric connection to the fan shroud assembly can be unplugged (remember too spray the electrical connections on the fan and starter modular connectors before re-assembly as that helps reduce corrosion issues later)

    and 4 bolts (2) 12-mm holding the fan shroud and radiator to the front radiator cross brace, and two 10-mm mid way down horizontally located, on the fan shroud, and the fan electrical plug can be disconnected, and temporarily set aside, this allows access to the two 14-mm bolts securing the starter to the block, one faces the drivers side through the starter , and one faces the pass side that threads into the starter after its passed through the bell housing(remember this engine is front wheel drive and sits perpendicular to the cars main center line )add a drop of loctite to the two main bolt threads as you re-assemble it can prevent potential issues later
    once the starters loose the 12-mm main battery cable and the modular plug on the starter can be removed.
    total time to replace the starter was about 35 minutes
    (it would be less if my lower back hurt less)
    the guy stood there making useless ,un-informed , and at time's ludicrous suggestions while I worked on his car,
    but at least he seemed interested in what was being done and did not simply as me too call him when I finished the repair work..
    when I was done, and after,the car took a quick test drive, he handed me $70)
    (I had not made any demands or EVEN suggestions as too any payment, or indicated it would cost too have me help him out, so that seemed a reasonable )
  7. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    Ok, I fell for it up until that last coma! I was in hook, line and sinker ..... :rolleyes:

    He does NOT sound as bad as some of your clients !

    Sure wished we closer to each other ... the wives would never see us except to pay bills and that other subject ..... What the kids are up to this week???
  8. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    yeah! that would be great, if you care to move to south florida
    Ill look at the local properties for sale
    of course youll have too deal with the brutal winters where temps drop into the high 30f range for about 48-72 hours a year,
    a hurricane every 10 years or so,
    and the local wild life.(SOME MUCH BETTER THAT OTHERS)
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  9. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    Can you find the property next to the girl?
  10. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    I got a phone call from some guy who is looking to get his car repaired, he got my phone number from some one I've built an engine for in the past,
    he would not give me much information or tell me who he got my number from.
    but he said I did amazing work on the guys car and its amazingly fast.
    he has an off red two door hard top, 1965 chevelle , he told me it would not start, and its been sitting un-used, in the garage of the house he inherited from his late dad 20 years ago.
    he has no idea what engine or transmission it has, he has not installed a new battery ,the engine has not run in 20 plus years,
    he has no idea if anythings disconnected,missing broken or non-original, etc.
    but he has questions
    how much will it cost too repair?
    how soon can you get this done?
    what parts will it need?
    can I get a new title, as I can,t find my dads paper work?
    do you have all the parts in stock?
    can you get this done in a couple hours?
    honestly, after I asked a few questions
    where are you located?
    what engine and transmission is in the car?
    did it run when it was parked?
    will the engine spin if manually turned?
    is there oil, gas and coolant in the car?
    can you have several pictures of the car and engine e-mailed too me?
    how are the tires, belts,hoses,brakes?
    what are your goals and budget limitations on getting this repaired?
    he HUNG UP ON ME!
    no loss, hes obviously not some one Id want to deal with.
    I get the distinct feeling hes one of those insane guys,
    who wants everything done for free, yesterday,
    without having to personally be involved, and the car should be converted,
    from what ever condition it is into a frame off , numbers matching showroom fresh restoration
    for free , done in the next 30-45 minutes
    some people are a waste of AIR.

    with the right owner that might have been an interesting project,
    but this caller impressed me as mentally unbalanced, impatient
    and unwilling to get physically or financially involved,
    how in hell can anyone diagnose a car or know what it needs without ever seeing it or knowing what condition its in,
    what parts are missing, doing a few tests,
    checking a few things,or what engine it has

    I get the last laugh here for sure as I generally do these repairs at my own pace,
    for not much more than the cost of parts and maybe lunch....
    he will never get a similar deal else-ware,
    as I enjoy the work and helping MOST people with older cars.
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  11. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    He did you a favor when he hung up, saved you from wasting anymore time ! Geezz some people!
  12. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Without mentioned name its Insanity to me Grumpy....
    1000 Hp Boosted LSX B15 & 4L60e bone stock Jasper Remaned & low stall torque converter with no Anti balloon plates in a C5 Corvette.
    Must be daily driven. Run deep 10s and last 100,000 miles.
    Put all on me while I am in Illinois.
    Car in Florida.
  13. T-Test

    T-Test Well-Known Member

    Just shoot the bastard and do the world a favor for he probably stole the car and don't know how to get the title or a duplicate.
  14. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    if you could legally remove all the clueless idiots things might improve but I have the distinct feeling,
    the numbers are higher than you might imagine,
    and they would be rapidly replaced with ever more clueless ,
    self important entitled morons...
    for some reason the idea of working toward your goals, and doing physical labor,
    leaning new skills, being personally responsible for your own welfare ,
    and financial advancement or failures, admitting personal responsibility.
    all seems to be a lost art,
    with the younger generation and some of the older members as well..
    admitting personal responsibility is the key that many avoid like the plague.
    the truth is no one is likely to hand you anything, for free,
    and its hard work,time spent , learning valuable , marketable skills that helps you advance
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
    Loves302Chevy likes this.
  15. T-Test

    T-Test Well-Known Member

    Here ya go! YOB Culture.

    Attached Files:

    Loves302Chevy likes this.
  16. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Not sure how much can be taught to the generation after mine Grumpy.
    Lack ambition.
    Crate everything.
    Miracles can not be done that way.
    All must be custom built to have a Racecar.

    Kinda reached a limit what is practical and affordable.

    Just C4 is possible I think.
    But only You and me see them as Racecars.

    Vintage Musclecars best bet.
  17. Loves302Chevy

    Loves302Chevy "One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."

    How can we forward YOB to Trump?
  18. T-Test

    T-Test Well-Known Member

    A Guide To Yob Creation

    I have put together the following ‘‘five point plan’’ for those
    wishing to create their own yob! However, I must point out
    that the following rules must be adhered to fully.
    Note: The apprentice yob must be schooled from the earliest possible age. No older
    than three or four years of age is recommended. Providing this plan is followed to the
    letter, your apprentice should receive a full yob scholarship by the age of ten. Any
    deviation from this plan could lead to the extinction of yob culture.
    upload_2018-5-28_8-1-17.png Step 1: The Parents:
    The parents of the apprentice yob are of
    paramount importance. The first months
    and years of life being the most formative,
    it is essential to set examples of correct
    and acceptable behavior from the outset.
    The apprentice must be employed by a fully qualified yob
    parent; or two, if available.
    The parents should ideally have a traceable pedigree of
    yobbery going back at least two generations.
    upload_2018-5-28_8-1-43.png Step 2: Home Life:
    The home should be regarded as the
    cradle of the young apprentice. It should
    be ensured that the yobs home life is as
    dysfunctional and disrupted as possible in
    order to instill a great sense of insecurity and mayhem.
    The importance of allowing the apprentice free rein within
    this environment cannot be overstated.
    The parent or parents should engage in “yobbish behavior”
    in the presence of the apprentice, in order to demonstrate the
    required standards of behavior which are to be expected both
    now and in later life. Regular displays of foul language,
    alcohol intoxication, violent or abusive domestic interaction,
    all assist in providing the young apprentice with suitable role
    model behavior.
    upload_2018-5-28_8-2-14.png Step 3: School Life:
    School life is, if anything, even more
    important than home life in the upbringing
    of the young apprentice. Assuming, that
    is, the apprentice is willing to go to school
    in the first place!
    The apprentice will inevitably spend more hours of the day at
    school than at home. For this reason it is of vital importance
    to send the apprentice to a school with a lax education and
    discipline regime. Most schools fall into this category, so it
    should not be too difficult to find the apprentice a suitable
    Schools which concentrate on issues such as religion,
    discipline, respect for others, good manners, morality, and
    other such subversive ideologies should be avoided. The last
    thing we want is for the school to contradict or undo any of
    the parents good work carried out during the apprentices preschool
    The school should always respect the legal “rights” of the
    apprentice to ensure the child’s yob-hood years remain free
    from the constraints imposed upon the adult population.
    upload_2018-5-28_8-2-50.png Step 4: Discipline:
    Traditional ‘politically incorrect’ forms of
    discipline should never be used in the
    upbringing of the apprentice yob. It can
    have the adverse effect of controlling
    unruly behavior! If the parent wishes to
    demonstrate some form of authority
    (though this should be kept to a
    minimum) psychological abuse such as
    screaming, shouting, swearing, and threats of imminent
    violence towards the apprentice should always be used.
    Remember that examples of this type need to be set.
    upload_2018-5-28_8-3-31.png Step 5. Television:
    The importance of Step five cannot be
    overestimated in the apprentice yobs
    curriculum. The television, being the most
    powerful propaganda medium in existence,
    is an essential tool in the mind control
    process. The apprentice must be subjected
    to as much negative imagery as possible. Several hours a
    day are recommended.
    The correct type of television and/or video programming is
    essential in order to create the correct type of mindset during
    the first years of apprenticeship. Programs containing extreme
    violence, foul language, violent and corruptible forms of
    music, and depraved or perverted sexual activity, should be
    the required standards of viewing.
    Violent video games are also a great aid to successful
    When we reverse the moral decline
    which has taken over our society
    during the past forty or so years, we
    will eradicate the culture of yob
    behavior which leads to the types of
    violent crimes we see today. upload_2018-5-28_8-4-38.png
    Ever more restrictive gun and knife
    laws, and longer and longer prison
    sentences, make for great newspaper
    headlines, but are not the answer to rising crime.
    When we learn to discipline the would-be yob children
    of today, we will eradicate the anti-social behavior and
    violent crime of tomorrow!

    Unknown Author
    Here ya go. Send to White House general mail and maybe he'll get it. Or laugh, or Homeland will visit you!
    Last edited: May 28, 2018

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