Grumpy, do you ever take on building motors by request? For example - building a correct turn-key "period looking" 427 bbc, or 454? I don't trust buying an inventory new motor or somebody's ego build.
Made to order motor request
- Thread starter chromebumpers
- Start date
8
87vette81big
Guest
Grumpy won't disapoint You Rich.
My PM reply would not go through to you last night.
Retyped and sent this morning.
I love Pontiacs as you know.
The fastest bone stock GTO'S were the 1968 RAM AIR 2 400 Auto or 4-speed with 3.90 - 4.33 gears and 1969-70 Ram Air 4 400 equipped the same.
With a good driver they would beat a 1970 SS Chevelle LS6 454.
The 1970-1/2 Ram Air 4 Trans Am is faster yet.
Lighter than the GTO by 300-400lbs. Smaller body & Arerodynamic.
Super rare just 88 made.
1969 Trans Am Ram Air 4 there were 55 made.
Only similar power is L88 Corvette or 426 Mopar Hemi.
I have been lucky enough to own a Ram Air 4 70 TA.
My PM reply would not go through to you last night.
Retyped and sent this morning.
I love Pontiacs as you know.
The fastest bone stock GTO'S were the 1968 RAM AIR 2 400 Auto or 4-speed with 3.90 - 4.33 gears and 1969-70 Ram Air 4 400 equipped the same.
With a good driver they would beat a 1970 SS Chevelle LS6 454.
The 1970-1/2 Ram Air 4 Trans Am is faster yet.
Lighter than the GTO by 300-400lbs. Smaller body & Arerodynamic.
Super rare just 88 made.
1969 Trans Am Ram Air 4 there were 55 made.
Only similar power is L88 Corvette or 426 Mopar Hemi.
I have been lucky enough to own a Ram Air 4 70 TA.
chromebumpers said:
I don,t own a machine shop, I only own a few major machine tools,like a mill and welders, I just have most of the precision measuring and checking tools, and a good deal of experience checking and assembling parts correctly.
I have been assembling several engines a year for the local guys that I know, but Ive never made much if any money doing it as I generally have those guys pay for the time and effort required to get thier engines correctly assembled with tools or parts,or shop supplies.
so the way I generally operate with the local guys is I have them get all their parts ordered ,after making a check list , which we discuss at length before we start,or if used parts are used,I have them cleaned and inspected, then re-machined to required specs at a trusted local machine shop.
I then measure and re-inspect the parts ,after the machine shop does the work, if required I do minor port clean -up and fitting ,polishing ,checking and assembly, this frequently involves having the parts owner making several return trips to a local machine shop, or ordering new parts.
this process can take a few weeks or even months depending on whats being built and cash flow available, and in most case cash flows a big problem.
I generally have the parts owner involved in every step of the procedure making hands-on checks and each stage decisions,as to what we will do or spend as the engines assembled, and as parts are fitted and re-checked so your very unlikely to find your going to be able to do that if your not local, on the plus side theres zero reason you can,t do the same thing locally if you just have a few measuring tools and follow thru some instructional thread like....the hundreds posted on this site!
EXAMPLE
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=8460
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=462
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2726
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=5936
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=852
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=247
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=110
if your not into building your own engine, in a step by step manor like the links provide,and Indycars has done,
these guys I linked too below do a good job, and ID use them if you don,t want to do the work yourself as they have a good reputation, for quality builds
http://www.vortecproperformance.com/eng ... tions.html
http://www.lewisracingengines.com/
Grumpy, I rebuilt 2 motors in my life, a Caddy 500 and a straight 6 - 4 ltr Jeep motor. Both pretty much the same procedure. I sent the 500 to get cleaned and inspected for cracks. The cylinders were good so they just needed a light prep. Heads sent out but I assembled everything else. That motor is still running fine today after 15 years. The Jeep is currently for sale - rebuilt that one 5 years ago (absolutely didn't needed a rebuild but I wanted a torque monster at the time. Even though these projects are 100% fine I just never had the confidence and I wouldn't race these motors (not for any reason other then second guessing myself because there was 10 ways to assemble everything).
Depending on what excites me for the next project, that will determine what way I go motor-wise. I have to clean house first (by this Thanksgiving) and test-fit for comfort a couple cars on my list of many. I am leaning towards a GTO, 'cuda, GNX, (some MOPAR), 442 or Chevelle size car or a big boat convertible like a flagship Caddy or Impala Or God forbid, a Ford Galaxy 500. Non-convertible cars - 70 to 73 Camaro Z-28 or BBC SS ('73 because it has AC for the first time) Firebird up to 74. A 66/67 GM Pick-up (Loaded) or a 57 Cameo pick-up.
I am into factory stock, but I'm not afraid to install A/C to a non-A/C car. A 68 or 69 Camaro with a Vintage 427 sounds intriguing as does a 68 Nova with a 427. Whatever way I go, if I need a fresh motor I wont be doing this but rather sub it out. Arizona Speed and Marine built a 454 for a 70 Monty Carlo and it worked out fine. They called me with updates and I would send them payments to purchase the parts and labor. I tried using them again a few years ago but they were having labor problems and never got back to me.
I don't begrudge anyone compensation for their time. I like clear understanding and even though some people don't like contracts - putting expectations in writing keeps legitimate deals friendly to the end and therefore I'm comfortable paying in advance for parts and labor. I used Thortons for years which is in the same town but since they had their name on a car restoration on the block at Barrett/jacksons, they quadrupled their prices and I'm not about to pay for their ego! I mean, really - $27,500 to paint a Corvette a stock color and only slight repairs? My wife can paint a car and it'll look perfect (after a lot of color sanding! :lol:
Depending on what excites me for the next project, that will determine what way I go motor-wise. I have to clean house first (by this Thanksgiving) and test-fit for comfort a couple cars on my list of many. I am leaning towards a GTO, 'cuda, GNX, (some MOPAR), 442 or Chevelle size car or a big boat convertible like a flagship Caddy or Impala Or God forbid, a Ford Galaxy 500. Non-convertible cars - 70 to 73 Camaro Z-28 or BBC SS ('73 because it has AC for the first time) Firebird up to 74. A 66/67 GM Pick-up (Loaded) or a 57 Cameo pick-up.
I am into factory stock, but I'm not afraid to install A/C to a non-A/C car. A 68 or 69 Camaro with a Vintage 427 sounds intriguing as does a 68 Nova with a 427. Whatever way I go, if I need a fresh motor I wont be doing this but rather sub it out. Arizona Speed and Marine built a 454 for a 70 Monty Carlo and it worked out fine. They called me with updates and I would send them payments to purchase the parts and labor. I tried using them again a few years ago but they were having labor problems and never got back to me.
I don't begrudge anyone compensation for their time. I like clear understanding and even though some people don't like contracts - putting expectations in writing keeps legitimate deals friendly to the end and therefore I'm comfortable paying in advance for parts and labor. I used Thortons for years which is in the same town but since they had their name on a car restoration on the block at Barrett/jacksons, they quadrupled their prices and I'm not about to pay for their ego! I mean, really - $27,500 to paint a Corvette a stock color and only slight repairs? My wife can paint a car and it'll look perfect (after a lot of color sanding! :lol:
Grumpy, I wont need anybody with a machine shop. I'm fine with sending things out - I'll be in the market for someone to expertly assemble a stock looking but otherwise tweeked longblock, big block that is absolutely turn-key. This won't be a race car but it might see a pass or 2 at the local 1/4 mile track. There is a slight chance I may go for bragging rights and want a moderate build but to the limits of being tame for the wife to drive, Say something around 600 hp/570 torque without the need for a high rise hood. Lately I have been warming up to the idea of a modern LS3, LS7 or even an LS9 in one of the cars on my list but in no way would I be interested in doing the modifications and custom this or that to make it work. In that case the motor would be a crate motor and the fitment would be the focal point. Btw, a 66 VW bus (17 window and completely bone stock) went for $100,000 at Mecums this summer. I since looked at a couple of lost causes and both owners knew about the sale and wanted nearly 50% of that price for their POS! I'll just wait and someday their executor will sell it reasonably.
87vette81big said:
Sounds like you don't have it anymore - what became of it?
That's a car I can see myself driving!
8
87vette81big
Guest
chromebumpers said:
I have it still Rich.
Put away. Saving for my Boys.
Next marks 20 years of owing my TA.
Too rare to be driving daily today.
I have a true dislike for NSA & the Totus president & thier Spies.
Grumpy seldom shows off today too.
Good reason.
BR
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87vette81big
Guest
You will find what you want Rich.
I would concentrate your searches on high water mark cars only.
$45k - 100k.
Any less and you will be dissapointed.
Search in Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona.
Super dry weather climates. Cars will be rust free.
Hemi Cuda Convertible be nice. 1970-'71.6
I would concentrate your searches on high water mark cars only.
$45k - 100k.
Any less and you will be dissapointed.
Search in Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona.
Super dry weather climates. Cars will be rust free.
Hemi Cuda Convertible be nice. 1970-'71.6
8
87vette81big
Guest
If you want the best & Ultra nice $ talks.
Suitcase full of bankmarked 100's.
Handcuff to your right wrist.
Bring a bodyguard.
Its Illinois here.
How things get done.
No one from a forum works for a contract.
Too much like osama NSA bullshit.
BR
Suitcase full of bankmarked 100's.
Handcuff to your right wrist.
Bring a bodyguard.
Its Illinois here.
How things get done.
No one from a forum works for a contract.
Too much like osama NSA bullshit.
BR
87vette81big said:
I mention "in writing" because so many guys say they wind up not making any money, or there's arguments as to what was said - how much is owed and so on. If you get things in agreement the mechanic can make money and the customer gets what he/she wanted. The idea is sort of along the lines of an old saying "Good fences make good neighbors." 99% of the time I remain good friends with whomever does work for me and we repeat business again. The only time something else happens it is usually far from my involvement.
I think I'm late to the discussion of the NSA and I don't understand the references.
I think there is a pattern in car pricing - think in terms of 100%. Pick out a potentially nice collector car on CL. Say for example it's a 65 Buick Riviara and the asking price is $20000 for a number 3 condition car. Note: A # 1 car is what dreams are made of and a #5 is a car Helen Keller would say is fugly!
Now take that $20K and double it. $40K is what you would find a #1 car at an auction like Mecums. Try it at home guys. A 73 Camaro Z/28 - old restoration and some issues. Asking price is $15K. Expect that you will find a #1 recently sold at Mecums for $30K. A POS '67 Impala listed in CL for $7500 but a nice driver of the same configuration sells at auction for $16K. In essence you'll find the CL cars are typically listed for 150% of fair market value.
personally I think the 1965-69 pontiac GTO s and 1968-70 road runners and 1969-camaros and 1970 big block 440 and hemi cudas are some of the nicest muscle cars out there
grumpyvette said:
I'll drink to that! Don't forget The 442, The Grand Sport, Chevelles and the Javelin AMX!