new heads for a 383 with 170 cc edelbrocks now

[Grumpy]

I'm considering do an upgrade to my top end and I'm looking for some advice from some of the more experienced engine guys on here.

First, is it worth doing? Since building my first engine 7 years ago when I was 22 I've second guessed my head choice after talking with some different people. I'm running Edelbrock E-tec 170's which I had bought as part of their "power package" so it came with a matched cam and rpm air gap intake. The motor is a full roller 383 stroker (all the details are in my signature below).
I've been happy with it, it's great on the street and it's run a best of 12.044 @ 112 with a 1.6s 60'. This wasn't under the best conditions, track prep wasn't great, I'm pretty sure it has more in it.

Alas, with all the nay-sayers saying the 170's are too small for a 383 stroker, I've spent the last 7yrs wondering if I've left a lot of power on the table. I built the short block strong and the engine only has 11k miles on it, so it should easily take more power. What I'm wondering is if it would be that much of a difference to make it worth doing... I'm leaning towards it probably is, I know there's WAY better head/cam combos out there, but I'm in no way an expert.

So, in addition to your thoughts on whether the Etec 170's are sufficient or I should go to something else, I'd also like to hear your recommendation on what heads I should look at.

As a side note, the current setup has developed some little external coolant leaks from the head gaskets and intake gasket... so it gives me a decent reason to justify a head swap to myself :smackartyon:

I know head choice depends on a lot, so if you need more info than what's below just ask, I definitely have it.

Thanks for any help!


PS A little more info not in my signature:

The E-tec 170s have
-64cc chambers
-1.94" intake / 1.55" exhaust valves

11.0:1 CR

the answer depends a good deal on what your using the car/engine FOR?
every choice you make is a compromise in some area
yes your edelbrock 170cc port heads ARE restricting peak power , but they may be a good choice for your particular application.
Edelbrock 60975 - Edelbrock E-Tec Cylinder Heads
but they are also allowing your engine to operate with a crisp quick response at the lower and mid rpm ranges that YOU will notice will be minimally reduced with a much better flowing head that allows the engine to breath and make better peak power.
if your currently running close to 12 flat at over 111 mph your current combo does work very well,
but keep in mind , that too maximize head flow and power you'll likely want a bit better head plus a bit more cam duration.
obviously you need to think through your goal vs the trade offs and cost, your current combo works well but its designed to maximize power from off idle to about 5500rpm, where most of your times spent driving on the road.
a bit more cam duration would work best with a 3200 stall converter and a 3.73:1 rear gear, ratio, or a manual transmission,and about 42 lb injectors, if your running injection, if your going to burn more air and fuel you need to allow the ports to breath to their full potential
many guys don,t bother to match components effectively and a common mistake is not selecting a large enough flow rated fuel injector, to match the power level your trying to reach.

http://www.airflowresearch.com/210cc-sbc-race-cylinder-head/

http://www.cranecams.com/product/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=24187

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/a-well-designed-c4-exhaust.786/#post-57392

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-parts-and-a-logical-plan.7722/#post-71181

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ive-are-the-stock-tpi-engine-components.1509/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/calculate-fuel-injector-size.1200/

if your using a carb, Id use this intake with that cam and heads
http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350...Wv7GpnLk0QtlqfnnxrJbzD0VgKTZNhrDJsaAiOH8P8HAQ
and YEAH,BEFORE YOU ASK, THE CORRECTLY MATCHED HEADS,INTAKE,AND CAM
will produces noticeably more upper rpm power , but the drive train must match the application to take full advantage of the increased power and raised average operational rpm band with that 11:1 compression 383
(notice the heads are available in BOTH 65cc and 75cc versions )
you might consider dropping compression a bit with the 75cc head version if you drive on the street to reduce the potential for detonation issues

 

[Strictly Attitude]

Things that make that combo work first it is a matched package from edelbrock designed to work together and give positive results.

Is there power left on the table yes. Again how wild you wanna go what are the cam specs. Are you changing cams cause putting a larger head might not help if it is held back by the weekest link. Seems pretty well setup if he is pulling a true 12.04 on pump gas street 383. But man those are some small runners for a 383. But seems by the time slip the rest of the package compliments it.

 

[HandOverFist]

If you are happy with the current street manners I would not touch it.

 

[Grumpy]

Buddy of mine has this OEM roller TPI Vette with 113 heads.

Car has a fresh 350" and manual trans.

Static C/R is 10.5:1, heads are unported and TPI is stock.

Intended use of the car is sort of a daily driver so camshaft needs to suit for urban traffic, twisties and open road. He can have the ECM adjusted in dyno.

I was looking at:
Extreme Fuel Injection cams 08-465-8 260XFI HR13 and 08-466-8 268XFI HR13
and also Computer Controlled 08-302-8 264HR-12 sekä 08-304-8 266HR-14.

What would be your recommendation? It does not need to be any of above.

I'm a bit worried about these modern 'agressive ramps'. How do they last in normal use?

How about the good old Lingenfelter 211/219?

a great deal of the info you may want can be calculated after carefully measuring the intake port and runner length and cross sectional areas.(remember its not the intake port gasket cross sectional opening, cross sectional area, its the smallest part of the port cross sectional area and valve throat areas that limit port flow rates)
if as an example we selected a port with about a 2 sq inch cross sectional area, you'll find max torque on a 350 will fall near 4000-rpm and port stall near 6000-rpm thus it makes sense to match the cam timing and lift/duration and the drive train gearing to match the rpm range,power curve and port flow.
or put a bit differently, theres no sense in selecting a cam designed to operate well at 7600 rpm if you port stalls at 6300 rpm

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calccsa.htm

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcplv.htm

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calchpaf.htm

http://www.wallaceracing.com/chokepoint.php

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/runnertorquecalc.html

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Texas-Instruments-TI-30X-IIS-Scientific-Calculator/1535939
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-5605/overview/
related info, that you might need
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...heads-for-small-block-chevys.3293/#post-26213

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/what-are-these-heads.4702/#post-12742

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-by-step-guide-with-pictures.5378/#post-71848

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ther-efi-intake-manifold-info.431/#post-26322

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/porting-can-help.462/page-3#post-59145

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ads-tuned-intake-turbulence.12998/#post-67611

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...h-ram-and-other-efi-intake-manifold-info.431/

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/vemp-1010-edelbrock-pro-flo-xt-intake/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...o-flow-firsts-tpi-intake-etc.1052/#post-37126

Volume (CCs) of Head Gasket
CCs of Head Gasket = Bore x Bore x 12.87 x Thickness of Head Gasket
COMMON SBC INTAKE PORTS
felpro # 1204=Port Size: 1.23" x 1.99"=2.448 sq inches

felpro # 1205=Port Size: 1.28" x 2.09"=2.67 sq inches

felpro # 1206=Port Size: 1.34" x 2.21"=2.96 sq inches

felpro # 1207=Port Size: 1.38" x 2.28"=3.146 sq inches

felpro # 1209=Port Size: 1.38" x 2.38"=3.28 sq inches

felpro # 1255 VORTEC=Port Size: 1.08" x 2.16"-2.33 sq inches

felpro # 1263=Port Size: 1.31" x 2.02"=2.65 sq inches

felpro # 1266=Port Size: 1.34" x 2.21"=2.96 sq inches

felpro # 1284 LT1=Port Size: 1.25 x 2.04''=2.55 sq inches

felpro # 1289 FASTBURN=Port Size: 1.30" x 2.31" 3.00 sq inches
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calccsa.htm

Your RPM computed from your Cross Sectional Area of 1.95
(the smaller AFR HEADS)
and Bore of 4.03 and Stroke of 3.75 is 5,569.12 .

Your RPM computed from your Cross Sectional Area of 2.05
(the Larger AFR HEADS)
and Bore of 4.03 and Stroke of 3.75 is 5,854.72 .
you,ll barely notice the about 300 rpm shift in the power band on the lower part of rpm range but appreciate it much more on the upper edge of that power curve


heres a chart FROM THE BOOK,HOW TO BUILD BIG-INCH CHEVY SMALL BLOCKS with some common cross sectional port sizes
(measured at the smallest part of the ports)
...........................sq inches........port cc
edelbrock performer rpm ....1.43.............170
vortec......................1.66.............170
tfs195......................1.93.............195
afr 180.....................1.93.............180
afr 195.....................1.98.............195
afr 210.....................2.05.............210
dart pro 200................2.06.............200
dart pro 215................2.14.............215
brodix track 1 .............2.30.............221
dart pro 1 230..............2.40.............230
edelbrock 23 high port .....2.53.............238
edelbrock 18 deg............2.71.............266
tfs 18 deg..................2.80.............250

USE THE CALCULATORS
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/runnertorquecalc.html
http://www.wallaceracing.com/chokepoint.php
http://www.wallaceracing.com/header_length.php
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/en...-0902-chevy-engine-port-variations-measuring/
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/choosing-the-right-camshaft/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bits-of-383-info.38/
no mater what cam you select, retaining the stock cylinder heads and stock TPI intake will be a HUGE potential restriction to potential power levels you could otherwise reach, a cam will help, but your leaving 50-80 hp on the table that better heads a better intake, larger injectors (needed to keep the intended fuel/air ratio, required, to make increased power) and a low restriction exhaust with tuned headers would allow you to easily access the higher rpm range.
and installing a cam will require better valve springs checking clearances and ideally a 3.54"1-3.73:1 rear gear ratio to get the full potential out of the higher average operational rpm range and increased air flow rates
a couple hours spent reading links will help here!
yes you can upgrade the cam and see gains, but correctly matching all the components to provide the required air flow and fuel delivery at the higher rpm range and matching that too a low restriction tune exhaust will provide noticeably improved results.
theres several 190cc-200 cc heads that would produce very noticeable power improvements over the stock cylinder heads and the stock TPI intake is a huge restriction, a http://www.firstfuelinjection.com
TPI intake with a set of brodix, AFR or trickflow or similar heads would provide much better power than the stock intake and cylinder heads will.

I,ve found THIS IS THE BEST TPI STYLE INTAKE AVAILABLE

http://www.firstfuelinjection.com
THE larger 1.75" (2.45 sq inch cross sectional area)of the FIRST intake design, vs the STOCK 1.47" diameter runner cross section (1.7 sq inch cross sectional area), of the stock G.M. tpi, intake adds at least 1200 rpm to the engines potential IF properly matched to the correct components, like 42lb injectors, un-ported this runner should provide peak power in the 4500rpm-6000rpm range, while the stock TPI intake runners peak at least 1200rpm lower, near 3400rpm where they tend too start restricting flow compared to the larger runner size of the ,
FIRST TPI INTAKE DESIGNS LARGER RUNNERS CROSS SECTIONAL AREA
Id select decent flowing heads like these
http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=24_33
these 1.6:1 ratio roller rockers
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-1605-16
a cam like this, if your goal is max peak power (and low speed drive-ability is not much of a concern)
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-119651
a cam like this, if your goal is good driveability on the street with good power
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-119661
http://www.airflowresearch.com/super-chevy-sep-2013-195cc-sbc.php
http://www.summitracing.com/search?Sort ... er%2000471
a cam like this, (crower above)if your goal is good driveability on the street with good power, but your willing to put up with some low speed driveability issues to get more power (it basically splits the difference,I tried all three and went with the smaller crane roller

a good quality 7-8 quart oil pan with windage tray
http://www.race-mart.com/Milodon-MIL-31516.html
these valve covers
http://www.proformparts.com/product-exe ... ory_id/249
a high flow water pump
calculate horse power from intake port flow rates
http://www.wallaceracing.com/calcafhp.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/calchpaf.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/ca-calc.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/max-rpm.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/lpv.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/chokepoint.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/chokepoint-rpm.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/area-under-curve.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/piston-speed-velocity.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/header_length.php

you might want to read thru these links
AND DOZENS OF RELATED SUB LINKED INFO THREADS
youll find that if you don,t skip reading that info now,
even if it takes a day or so it will without doubt,
save you a great deal of wasted cash and money later on.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/can-you-get-there-with-tpi.10494/#post-44284

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/c4-larger-intake-runners-l98-tpi.13785/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...m-dyno-results-and-other-info.433/#post-37683

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/hey-grumpy-do-i-need-bigger-injectors.5583/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/port-speeds-and-area.333/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/ideal-tpi-build.12203/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/ideal-tpi-build.12203/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...sure-hurting-your-combo.495/page-2#post-35063

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/a-caveat-about-profiler-cylinder-heads.10065/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/a-well-designed-c4-exhaust.786/#post-57392

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ther-efi-intake-manifold-info.431/#post-32491

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/tpi-throttle-body-size-48mm-52mm-58mm.546/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/sources-for-tpi-parts-and-info.590/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bits-of-383-build-info.18/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/my-current-corvettes-383-combo.430/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/vintage-302-chevy.12071/page-9