over powder wads for cast bullet reloads

[Grumpy]

have you ever wondered why cheap cast reloads have poor accuracy and smoke so badly?
non-gas check bullets that are faster to make and cheaper too use,
are generally used and lube mixed with the powder is a common contributing factor.
the answer to how to improve the accuracy and reduce the smoke?
depends on both the lube and the amount of lube, and Ive investigated this rather extensively,
its my observation that some lube melts and contaminates/degrades the powder charge,
lube contaminated powder does not burn well, and because you have very little control,
on the amount of lube reaching the powder in weeks or months of storage
the cure is a properly installed barrier between the bullet and powder, an insert isolation wad
in the past bigger old school gun shops carried 357-44,45 caliber wads rather commonly
example on my 44 mag with non-gas check bullets
430" diameter Vegetable Fiber Wad, ideal for .44-40 caliber, .062" thick card, 1000, by Circle Fly Wads
if your loading non-gas check projectiles , especially with soft lube that may melt over time
,if left in a hot car or un-air-conditioned storage
load the powder charge, insert a spacer wad, then load and crimp the bullet,
remember the wad takes up powder space, thus it potentially raises pressure,at least marginally,
so you need to work up loads starting with about a 10% reduced load.
if this sounds like a P.I.T.A. your correct , most guys don,t shoot well enough to see a difference,
or at long enough ranges to see a difference and if you want to avoid the whole deal,
swapping to GAS CHECK BULLETS and harder lubes tends to eliminate the potential problem
the fiber wad you use should be pushed into the brass case as you seat the bullet,
and placed in solid contact with the base of the bullet,
there should be zero air space between the bullet base and the fiber wad
the wad acts like a fiber gas check thats not attached to the bullet base,
wads should be a tight fit in the brass case ,and in contact with the bullet base


leaving any air space between the bullet base,and wad like the pictures below, is a BIG POTENTIAL PROBLEM

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Searc.../2?search=wads

hardly new info
https://csharpsarms.com/cartridge%20...g%20manual.pdf
over card wads have been used since the 1860s to increase accuracy on cast bullet loads
read the sharps manual

 

[Grumpy]

the fiber wad you use should be pushed into the brass case as you seat the bullet, and in solid contact with the base of the bullet,
there should be zero air space between the bullet base and the fiber wad

Thanks Paul. One trick I saw on a video is the guy put a cloth on the bottom of a cookie sheet and poured paint thinner on the rag to get it damp. Then he wiped the base of each bullet across the rag to remove any excess lube. An extra step in the cast bullet process. He uses his bullets shooting long range with an 1874 Sharps.

that is almost mandatory in cleaning excess lube off bullet bases before reloading, but keep in mind at higher temps most types of bullet lube turn into a semi liquid thus a barrier between the bullet base and powder is beneficial, gas checks do a decent job but the thin fiber wad acts like a sealing gasket,
in an ideal world you select a propellant powder charge that fills 85%-100% of the available space in the cartridge,
with the bullet fully seated and crimped in place, and provides you as close to the intended velocity at safe and consistent pressure,
as this generally provides decent accuracy and near peak design velocity

 

[Grumpy]

Members - I had loaded some cast bullets with two different loads using my cast bullets for my .45-70 Marlin 1895 Cowboy. One with IMR4064 and another with IMR3031. Those with the 4064 shot great but the ones with 3031 the groups were 3x bigger! So I figured instead of wasting the bullets and powder just shooting them off I would pull them with my inertia puller when I got home. In doing so I noticed that the veggie wads on most of the bullets were really stuck to the bullets even though I made sure I wiped the bullet bases off with mineral spirits to remove any lube and they had several days to dry. I'm not really sure if these wads would come off during firing or not or if they would have any effect on accuracy even if they didn't. After all they are the same size or slightly smaller than the bullet itself.
What's your opinion?
As someone told me earlier, a pinch of cotton between the wad and the bullet is sometimes used. Is this the reason for using the cotton? Or would I be better off having the wad in contact with the bullet base?
I'm heading up to the cabin for a couple days so I won't be able to see any responses until I get back.

the very small and barely there at all, pinch of cotton ball fiber if its used is simply there to keep the powder charge near the primer,
the fiber patch/circular wad is less than 1/16" thick in most cases and on firing is going to, be or should be in contact with the bullet base
,and follow the bullet like a gas check of sorts, yes in some cases its going to stick to the base of the projectile,
this has no negative effect on accuracy that Ive ever seen, wads may or may not help accuracy
minor changes in primers, powder charges and lube use can ALL individually have an effect on accuracy,
so take accurate notes on what DOES and DOES NOT work.
lets say your using 40 grains of imr 3031 and your not happy with accuracy
you may find swapping to a winchester or federal mag primer,
or to a standard non-magnum winchester or federal primer
or boosting or reducing the powder charge a few grains, helps
Ive had generally inconsistent accuracy with remington primers
cci and alcan work ok in most, loads , but not as well as winchester and federal in my experience.
a different over all cartridge length,or adding a wisp of cotton over the powder helps maintain accuracy
has a major effect on consistency or accuracy
different burn rates will effect the way the bullet grips the rifling and stabilizes
changes in powder charge and primer will effect accuracy

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/170/1/WAD-430-A