I am setting up the clutch packs on my turbo 400. I have a few questions:
1. I am using a Hughes kit that has Kolene steels. What kind of prep do these need? Do they need going over with 220 emery paper? I have heard that the finish these steels comes with will otherwise chew up the frictions. Certainly the finish is not what I would call smooth!
I'm rebuilding a 200-4R and the book I have says NOT to sand the steels if
there are "Kolene Steels".
Kolene is a surface treatment, therefore it is only so deep. I can't confirm this, but
one person said it's .005"-.007" thick. Most likely you would not be able to remove
that much from the surface by hand.
http://www.finishing.com/kolene/qpq/
2. What are the recommended clearances for the direct and intermediate clutch packs. The book by Cliff Ruggles says 0.010 to 0.020 total but then the ATSG manual says 0.010 PER FRICTION. That would equate to a minimum 0.050 total for 5 frictions. That to me sounds more like it, but at the moment I only have 0.020 total clearance in my direct drum which would be a bit tight?
I got this from the "Pro Built Automatics" website, it was posted by the site administrator:
http://www.700r4l60e.com/forum/viewtopi ... 12&t=7#p15
Building a TH400 for street racing or drag racing.
For the 5 clutch direct pack, use Borg Warner Hi-Energy clutches from the 4L80E
(1996 & up). Use the Kolene turbulator direct steels, if possible, as they have less
drag in 1st & 2nd gear, and set the clutch clearance at .065"-.080". Going to closer
clutch clearances will tear up the 2nd gear band on the WOT 2-3 manual upshifts.
If over 900FWHP you might want to change the drum to a six pack oem setup
(Cadillac), or machine down the 5 clutch direct piston, do not machine to much
off so that the steels can go under the clutch teeth in the drum. Use thinner steels
to get six in the direct pack. Again use the Hi-Energy's.
Never sand steels with rough sandpaper, only polish them with 600, then 1000 and
a final of 1500 grit or higher in the direction or rotation only. Body shops have this
type of sandpaper. This includes the Kolene treated steels. The removal of the "black"
will only help in the seating in of the clutches. The Kolene treatment is .005" - .006"
deep. You are only removing about a .0005" of material here by doing this. The
smoother the steel the more contact area you have. Borg Warner and Raybestos
confirm this, espcially when using the Hi-Energy clutch material. The same goes
for the intermediate and forward steels.
For the intermediate band, use the Borg Warner Hi-Energy band from the 4L80E.
For the intermediate clutches, the Borg Warner's are fine for the three clutch
setup. Use the Borg Warner Hi-Energy's for the four clutch setup. Make sure you
use the direct drum that will accept the 34 element sprag assembly. "Do not"
remove the waved steel in the intermediate clutch pack as it will help prevent
the excessive intermediate sprag race wear and/or breaking, and it will help
prevent the intermediate clutch lugs in the case from shearing off. Always use
the Torqueflite .104" - .106" snap ring to hold the intermediate pressure plate
in place or the TransGo equivalent. Intermediate clutch clearance .030" - .050".
If you need to increase the intermediate clutch count from three to four, you
will need to get the 4L80E intermediate pressure plate, and use the .076" steels,
or Kolene steels. (turbulator steels if you can get them), and the Borg Warner
Hi-Energy 4L80E clutches (1996 & up).
In the forward clutch pack, start with the waved steel against the forward piston,
then the flat steels. The stock Borg Warner clutches are the best here. Forward
clutch clearance .020" - .050". For quicker forward engagement, use the borg
Warner clutches that have the grooves in them.
Use the plastic washers instead of the bronze washers where possible. When using
bronze thrust washers, make sure they are flat by flat sanding them. I find that
they are never flat. End clearance .015" - .020". Add a pan magnet or two. For
filter, use the late Sealed Power Dacron style for the TH400, this is an excellent
filter. The screen filter is good for race only. Under the low/reverse band apply
cover you will find an accumulator spring, do not use the blue, use the yellow or
plain (no color) spring, or the orange from the 4L80E.
As for the valve body modifications, use the TransGo Performance Shift kit, they
offer it in automatic & full manual. Replace the steel checkballs with Torlon checkballs,
these are much easier on the valve body plate. Next to the center support in the
case there are direct drum feed holes. Install two 2004R low/reverse cup plugs here.
By sealing against the center support, they prevent cross leaks, and do a very good
job for the longevity of the direct clutches.
Replace any plastic accumulator pistons in the valve body with aluminum pistons.
ALWAYS use cast iron sealing rings on the accumulator pistons, in the valve body
and case. Use teflon scarf cut sealing ring rings on the front pump & stator support
shaft, or the newer step cut plastic rings from a 1998 and up 4L80E center support.
Install "two" o-rings on the oil pickup tube, that goes into the case, to keep from
picking up air. Use a deep pan and run a rear pickup for vehicles that are running
1.4 or quicker 60 foot times. For over 900FWHP, go with the 300M input shaft &
modified forward drum, and the steel forward hub. These two additions will help the
unit hold about 1,100 - 1,200FWHP. Make sure that the driveshaft yoke is in perfect
condition and smooth as possible (polished), where the bushing & seal rides. Always
use solid U-joints with no Xerx fittings. If you get real creative here, you can make
a windage tray with a trap door to keep the fluid from getting into the gear train.
To keep from having a harsh neutral to reverse engagement, make sure you have set
the band clearance to the minimum, and keep the direct clutch clearance at .065"-.080".
Always use the vacuum modulator, even with a large duration camshaft. The factory
used them in all of its high performance vehicles years ago with much success. It will
keep the front pump and sealing rings alive 5-10 times longer than not using one. And
keep the drivetrain from undue strain due to the firm part throttle shifts.
These modifications were what we started doing many years ago in 8, 9 & 10 second
strip only cars & Pro Street vehicles, and were worth a little in terms of a drop in ET,
and they held up very well. Use Lubrication Engineers Monolec 7500 for the best in
terms of longevity, Amsoil for a synthetic fluid. Use a Dexron type fluid only, NO B&M
Trick Shift or Ford type "F" fluid ever.
3. The steels in the Hughes kit are all flat -- there are no wavy steels. Therefore no cushioning. Will that be an issue? I am putting in a Transgo 400 1-2 shift kit and the car is a 67 Impala with mild (by most of you guys standards) 454 running 2.56 gears. Should I substitute one of the new steels for the original wavy steel? I would have to find a new wavy steel for the direct as that clutch pack was burnt out due to the last idiot who put the tranny together buggering up the direct apply piston outer lip seal. No I didn't run the tranny like that -- it was one I bought to replace the turbo 350 that's in the car at the moment.
You have to wonder why Transgo put them in the kit. Try search on the part # and
see if you can find someone that has used your specific kit.
Cheers,
Chris
