Some safety info!!!

G

george88gta

Active Member
Yesterday I was lifting a rear axle assembly from the bed of my pickup. I was using my 9000 pound rated two post lift. Just as I had the axle high enough, to clear the bed, there was a LOUD crack. Sounded like a small explosion. It came from the lift and I ducked real fast. What had happened was that a pulley shaft, in the bottom of one of the posts had pulled/broken away from a brace. This is a one inch O.D. shaft and the welds broke. These cable are used to keep the lift arms in synch when raising/lowering the arms. The bulk of the lifting is done with hydraulic pistons. This lift is 7 years old and has never seen any weights above 7000 pounds. Since it is a hobby toy, it doesnt see one lift a month, on average. I purchased this lift thru NAPA and it is an AMMCO mfg'd by Challenger Lifts. Presently in discussion with Challenger to see what they are going to do to help me out. Have to admit they are very curteous folks, no brush off even though the lift is 5 years out of warranty. Purpose of this post is not to slam Challenger, but to make you folks aware of this and if you have a two post lift, check to see if it has the pulleys inside the posts and that they are running true. Damn glad I didnt have one of my toys on the lift, that could have been hairy. I sent them a bunch of pics so that they could see the damage and the portion of the shaft that did not get welded to the bracket. Just something to check before you have a problem. I will post more when I recieve an update from Chalenger.
 
IM GLAD YOU WERE NOT HURT!
QUESTION, not that its probably got a darn thing to do with your particular problem, but I always wonder when the last time it was that most guys lubricated those cables and pulleys, on lifts I know I lube mine almost to excess, but I see lots of lifts that look as though they have never been lubed, a simple semi yearly application of spray grease on all moving parts and cables does wonders to keep things rust free and smoothly working
 
Hey Paul, how are things? I make it a habit to inspect and adjust the lift twice a year. This includes some oil at the required places. Actually, the pulley rides on a bronzee bushing, so even if it wasnt lubed, it should stil have functioned. There were no obvious indications of lack of lube. The part that failed, I had to clean off the oil to get a good pic. The pics are high resoluton so they probably wouldnt post well. But bottom line is the failure mode was a bad weld. But you are right on, these things need sonme regualar maintenance.
 
Id strongly suggest you let the manufacturers reps. inspect and repair your lift even if it costs you several hundred dollars (VERY UNLIKELY) if they can simply because, if YOU re-weld it, THEY will be free of ALL future responsibility , for ALL problems ,even if any future problem is not remotely related to that repair.
but ID also suggest you take lots of clear detailed pictures of the problem AND any repairs made, and Id request some type of stress test once its repaired , if its a 9000 lb lift it should easily lift slightly MORE than its rated weight

THE CERTIFICATION STICKER IS MANDATORY ON A DECENT LIFT[/color]
http://www.autolift.org/
brownCert.jpg


http://www.ali-directory.org/ALI/ALI2.n ... d%20Rating


YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ THIS THREAD
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=98
 
grumpyvette said:
Id strongly suggest you let the manufacturers reps. inspect and repair your lift even if it costs you several hundred dollars (VERY UNLIKELY) if they can simply because, if YOU re-weld it, THEY will be free of ALL future responsibility , for ALL problems ,even if any future problem is not remotely related to that repair.
but ID also suggest you take lots of clear detailed pictures of the problem AND any repairs made, and Id request some type of stress test once its repaired , if its a 9000 lb lift it should easily lift slightly MORE than its rated weight

THE CERTIFICATION STICKER IS MANDATORY ON A DECENT LIFT[/color]
http://www.autolift.org/
brownCert.jpg


http://www.ali-directory.org/ALI/ALI2.n ... d%20Rating


YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ THIS THREAD
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=98
Click to expand...
As always Grumpy you have provided a ton of important data. I guess I feel that I did the right thing 7 years ago. I purchased this lift from the local NAPA dealer and had them install the lift. This is considered a commercial lift, not a hobby item. Hard to believe that these were poor quality, etc. NAPA wouldnt want to be involved in a mess like that. I am leaning toward a mfg quality issue, nothing more than that. But you are dead on with asking questions, buy American and dont get a "cheapie special". Those things always come back to bite you. My lift has all the appropiate labels and is labeled mfg'd by Challegner lifts USA. More to follow.
 
Here are some pics. The mfg ( Challenger) will not repair the lift. Their position is that it needs to be replaced. Of course, since it is out of production, a complete replacement will be required. I am waiting for their offer. After some research, it looks like these lifts ere made offshore and "inspected" at Challenger. Tough to inspect that weld. More to follow.
 

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Id point out the fact that it would be in their interest to make you a really decent deal on a trade in,
if you go that , replacement route as your going to post the results of their actions EITHER WAY on the internet , with detailed pictures ,where hundreds of thousands of potential customers will get to see how THEY will likely be TREATED if THEY have a problem.
potentially making their actions a HUGE SALES AID, or a warning to prospective buyers
If you don,t go that route ID suggest getting a CERTIFIED WELDOR to repair the lift, from the pictures it looks like a backing plate and a good weldor will have little problem doing the repairs, and of course anything done on one side needs duplication on the other and a stress test before use!
either way ID take lots of pictures and post the correspondence and let us know.


BTW
welder=EQUIPMENT
WELDOR= SKILLED OPERATOR OF .A WELDER
 
No word yet from Challenger. I have located a local certified welder. He does repairs to heavy equipment ( dozers, etc.) and he is willing to make the repair. Options are to bring him here or dismantle the lift and bring the post ( about 600 pounds) to him. Of course I will wait a while to hear back from Challenger. I spoke with the owner of the local NAPA store and he wants to get involved. He feels , as most of us, this is a quality issue and a commercial lift should not have failed this way in a homeowner/hobby environment. More to follow.
 
I can,t believe that CHALLENGER has not looked on this as an opportunity to increase sales by showing strong customer support!
if they try to ignore this it will only result in the info getting spread around and hurting their reputation
 
grumpyvette said:
I can,t believe that CHALLENGER has not looked on this as an opportunity to increase sales by showing strong customer support!
if they try to ignore this it will only result in the info getting spread around and hurting their reputation
Click to expand...
Well, it has been two weeks now and no info/response from Challenger. I sent the tech support manager an email today asking for an update. If no response by this Friday, time to give them another call. Not feeling the love here and my prewinter preparation projects are starting to back up.
 
Heard from Challenger today. It was my fault! Their engineers state that by using only the front arms, to lift a 300 pound axle, I put the lift in to a binding situation and that is why the pin broke loose. It had nothing to do with the defective weld. They wont send a welder out here and they dont have a replacement post ( foootprint has to be the same due to my floor heating system). Best they can do is to give me a decent price ( their words) on a newly fabricated post ( built to the old footprint). Waiting for that price and I am also waiting for a certified welder to stop by and give me a repair quote. Either way the post has to come down, so I started the dismantling today. No drain for the hydraulic fluid, so it looks like open the coupling and let the mess drain in to some speedy dry, too close to the floor for a pan, while I wrestle in a plug. Kind of like that boy and the dam thing.
 
Update. I had a welder ( certified) stop by and his quote was "around $700, plus parts". A bit steep, but I have to get this lift fixed. Called Challanger today and they wil build me a new post for $468, free shipping! Choice was obvious, go with Challanger. More to follow.
 
Update. I had a welder ( certified) stop by and his quote was "around $700, plus parts". A bit steep, but I have to get this lift fixed. Called Challanger today and they will build me a new post for $468, free shipping! Choice was obvious, go with Challanger. More to follow.
 
TOOL JUNKY, sounds familiar. I try to balance needs with wants, dont always succeed. Bottom line is that Challenger is trying to make things right. Another benefit is that the welder was quick to point out that he would not accept any liability. Staying with Challenger gives me a bit of a warm fuzzy. Time will tell.
 
Personally Id would have carefully examined and re-welded NEW components into the lift,the only TRUE security that you can have is doing the job correctly yourself!
anything else, but knowing exactly how and why something was done, and exactly what materials were used , and how and why those materials were selected results in you needing to TRUST someone else,s skill at doing their job correctly.
the facts are that easily 90% of the mechanical devises for sale are made with there cost of materials and the labor involved being a huge factor in the manufacturing process and the thought that went into their design, your rarely going to find components or machines designed with a 100%-200% or higher safety margin in the strength of the materials, or design criteria, as it makes competitively pricing the finished product impossible, but in most case a consumer can make modifications that would be cost prohibitive and time intensive to a manufacturer.
now Ive got to admit going the route youve selected is better from the long term liability angle, but I think CHALLENGER
has missed a chance to look good here and ID NEVER CONSIDER buying a lift from them any longer.
think about it! what they basically said was that because you loaded one side of the lift 300LBs heavier than the other side, the unequal load caused the lift to fail, well if you loaded the family pick-up truck on the lift and the load was not equal, lets say your pick-up truck had a 50/50 weight distribution, normally but the axle you lifted was too long and you has it tied on the tail gate...that would have caused the lift to fail???
 
Hey Paul, what I think we have here, from Challenger, is the difference between a reason and an excuse. Their position is that I used the lift contrary to their preferred use. Of course they do point out that a non symetrical use is not permitted, so they are on safe ground. They want you to use all 4 arms during lifting. Do I believe that it is necessary, NO. But they are the mfg and they make the rules. As far as welders, I have a big Lincoln AC/DC stick welder, the obligatory oxy/acetelyene setup and a small mig. I would not consider myself as an accomplished welder, but rather a metal burner. My welds wont win any beauty prizes. There was an episode of American Hotrod where one of the experienced guys was working with a newbie. He stated that you dont have to be a good welder as long as you are a good grinder. I can grind with the best of them. All things considered, I think going with the new post is the safest and least costly of the options. I plan to get the local Challenger maintenance folks to stop by and do a "tune up" after I get it back together. My projects are backing up and I really didnt enjoy brake and shock work on my S-10, lying on my back. Guess I am spoiled.
 
I understand fully your point and can,t understand the lift manufacturer not standing behind their product, I understand them not wanting to admit liability or incur an expense, but I think in the longer run it will cost them many times more in lost sales, than incurring a small expense now to repair what is possibly a freak failure to get a good deal more customer loyalty.
theres no way on this earth they can expect all cars on all their lifts to apply equal,& balanced loads on all arms on the lift, simply because theres no way on earth they can exactly control the cars weight distribution or where the opperator places the lift arms on the frame
 
I am not sure that is their point. If you use only two arms, they feel that the mechanisim can be put in to a bind ( no load on two arms). They do state that in their manual. Is that different from uneqaul load across 4 arms? Not sure. I guess you could argue either way. They generally do not sell to hobbyists, I could have obtained an Eagle lift for about $1500 less. Do they care about us? Probably not. Their money is in the shops that need commercial lifts and spend the money on annual maintenance inorder to prevent lawsuits, etc., I really believe that they were helpful to prevent liability issues. Not sure I want to give them a bad reputation since they are not geared to us hobbyists. I have run in to this before when I purchased inline filters for my air system. When I tried to get replacements, they would only sell the parts in lots that were way to expensive. Hobbyists are just that, small volume and a lot of big companies dont want to get involved with us. Maybe some day the big guys will recognise the potential of the hobbyist.
 
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