think thru your goals

grumpyvette · Sep 10, 2014

I go thru this with local guys frequently, and the same question's come up every time
Id start by asking yourself a few questions and
ANSWERING THEM HONESTLY

WHAT DO YOU INTEND TO DO WITH THE CAR ONCE ITS UP AND RUNNING?

WILL IT BE A DAILY DRIVER AND WILL IT NEED TO PASS EMISSION TESTING ?

WHAT ARE YOUR REALISTIC BUDGET AND TIME FRAME LIMITATIONS?

HOW MUCH OF THE WORK ARE YOU COMFORTABLE DOING YOURSELF
(AND KNOW YOU CAN DO AS WELL OR BETTER THAN SENDING T OUT)?

WILL YOU BE HAPPY WITH THE RESULT OR WILL YOU ALWAYS WISH YOU HAD DONE SOMETHING DIFFERENT?

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-a-cobra-replica-kit-car.10356/#post-48297

the last questions damn important, I know several guys that got rather deeply involved in restoring cars and after spending tens of thousands of dollars and years of effort they had really fantastic cars , but NOT what they really the cars they dreamed of owning

yes you can build a really impressive sbc using the basic sbc block and a selection of aftermarket components , but stop and think thru what youll have once its built!
"what do you want to have when your done !"
I know a rather wealthy doctor who is now retired that I see frequently at local car shows and at the local track occasionally, and I noticed he usually drives an early 1968 mustang with a 428 big block.
(his is dark red, but very similar to the picture)

now this guys got the funds to buy most reasonable priced muscle cars and that mustangs probably worth near $75 K or more, but I was surprised that when talking to him , that he wanted a 427 AC COBRA

so I ask why he never bothered to build a QUALITY KIT CAR CLONE
(ORIGINAL REAL 427 AC COBRAS COST OVER A MILLION BUCKS)

http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/VSECobra.html
I know he has a good garage, and the mechanical skills and budget and I know he could build an exceptional car with the engine of his choice for well under 60K

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=10356&p=42588&hilit=+factory+five+cars#p42588

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=1947&p=5175&hilit=cobra+kits#p5175

http://www.ohiocrank.com/chev_bb_shortb.html

his response, was he simply never thought he could own an AC cobra, and never considered the fact that some of the better kit cars are actually better built than the original cars now
one of the things Ive learned all too well is that if you don,t end up with what you want theres not much sense in going thru the work or spending the time and money to build something your not happy with or to rush thru a build just to get it driving when WHAT your driving is not the car that you want!

look, the plain truth is that if you dream about owning a 600 horse power big block or an LS series engine, in your camaro, corvette or a hemi in your road runner or a turbo ls in your 350 z nissan, then sticking a crate 383 in the car that makes 400hp-500hp, or an auto trans if you dream about a 5 speed manual, or rebuilding your own 327-383sbc YOU WILL never make you happy with the car your rebuilding.

personally Ive been collecting parts for a big block C4 engine swap, if you have a C4 corvette,you could buy a lsx 454 crate engine ,that has 770hp or you could build something similar , youll have a car that weights about 3600lbs with you in it with an engine with 770hp that would be a power to weight ratio of about 4.7 lbs per horse power

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/cr ... 454-r.html
yes you could even buy a new corvette, and with a few mods have in my opinion a better looking car with similar power, but at that point your spending more cash, then theres the 720 hp 572 big block crate engine that could be supercharged, and easily reach 800 plus hp
http://www.jegs.com/p/Chevrolet-Perform ... 0/10002/-1

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=151

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=1162&p=8187#p8187

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=775&hilit=building+dream

and for most guys its NOT HORSEPOWER, ALONE, they want a car that looks good,has really nice interior and paint,one that looks impressive and drives with little or no maintenance issues, a car they can at least in theory , jump in and drive from Florida to Alaska and not expect mechanical problems during the trip!

philly · Sep 10, 2014

speaking of dependability... this week is hot rod drag week, i hear theres guys in the 6's at over 220 who pull trailers with their race cars across the country to attend.

Indycars · Sep 10, 2014

Funny you mentioned that ...... I live west of OKC and today coming home from work I saw two cars headed west on I-40, both packing parachutes. I thought maybe it was the Hotrod Power Tour, but now I know it was the Hotrod Drag Week.

SCHEDULE:

Sunday, September 7, 2014 – Registration/Test And Tune, Tulsa Raceway Park, Tulsa, OK
Monday, September 8 – Day 1 Racing, Tulsa Raceway Park
Tuesday, September 9 – Day 2 Racing, Heartland Raceway Park, Topeka, KS
Wednesday, September 10 – Day 3 Racing, Thunder Valley Raceway Park, Noble, OK
Thursday September 11 – Day 4 Racing, S.R.C.A. Drag Strip, Great Bend, KS
Friday, September 12 – Day 5 Finals, Tulsa Raceway Park, Tulsa, OK
Saturday, September 13 – Special 10th Anniversary Drag Week Heads-Up Event, Tulsa Raceway Park, Tulsa, OK

philly · Sep 11, 2014

yea i almost forgot your in OK they are all over your neck of the woods! may wanna check those guys out. lots of serious cars out there.

Grumpy · Jun 2, 2017

just a bit of info, or as the old saying goes.... be careful what you wish for!
I know a A.C. cobra replica is a ton of fun on dry sunny days here in florida, but theres a down-side similar to motor cycles as transportation, and limited carry capacity is not the only flaw if you have a similar car used for daily transportation... most COBRA REPLICAS come with a canvas retractable roof ,
this particular cobra I saw today similar to this picture I found posted
Either he, did not have a soft top, or the owner felt putting it up was to much of a hassle..

floridas been in a fairly long and sustained drought here for a few months so I'm sure todays rather soaking and constant fairly hard rain caught a few people by surprise...
I could not help but notice a guy in an A.C. COBRA replica, who was in the next lane as I drove home, with no roof looking rather miserable. while driving in a fairly heavy rain squall , he was soaked that was all too obvious...he could not be much wetter if he was driving a motor cycle, and I especially felt for him when a large truck went by and I watched a wall of sprayed road water thrown by the trucks wheels soak him down...the sheet of water was heavy enough to make a very obvious noise as it hit the side of my car and closed windows as he sped by, but that cobras lower door height left him with at least a significant volume of that road water tire spray coming up over his door sill.
the first few rule's of GRUMPY'S engine assembly

(1) THINK THINGS THROUGH CAREFULLY ,
WRITE DOWN A LIST OF COMPONENTS ,
MAKE DARN SURE THE LIST IS COMPATIBLE WITH,
and AT LEAST SEMI-REASONABLY PRICED WITHIN YOUR BUDGET.
FOR WHAT YOU INTEND TO BUILD AND RESEARCH THE RELATED MACHINE WORK,
RESEARCH CAREFULLY THE COMPONENT INSTALLATION AND INTENDED USE ,
AND POWER BAND THE PARTS WILL REQUIRE
AND FIND AN EXPERIENCED MENTOR.

(2) if in doubt, about how to do anything, on an engine, do some detailed research,
find and compare at least 3-5 valid trust worthy sources info,
read the instructions over again, several time's very carefully
and if available watch several related videos.

(3) if any component will not easily function as designed or requires a good bit of physical force to install ,
or your not 100% sure your doing something CORRECTLY
STOP, FIND OUT EXACTLY HOW THE PARTS SUPPOSED TO FIT AND FUNCTION,& WHY! YOUR HAVING PROBLEMS
theres a reason, and you better verify your clearances are correct , and your following the instructions before you proceed.

(4) never assume the parts you purchased can be used without carefully , cleaning them prior too,
checking the physical condition, verifying clearances and using the correct sealant, lubricants etc.

(5) the quality of a component is generally at least loosely related to the cost to produce it,
and the amount of detailed research and quality machine work that went into its production.
if you got a significant reduced price, theres typically a reason.
it might simply be because a new improved part superseded the one you purchased,
but it might be a far lower quality imported clone with lower quality materials and machine work.
its the purchasers responsibility to research quality.

(6) if you did not do the work personally or at least take the effort to verify it was done correctly and personally verify clearances
ITS almost a sure thing that it was NOT done , correctly, and yes that mandates you fully understand what your looking at,
and how the components are supposed to function and have high quality precision measuring tools.

(7) ITS ALMOST ALWAYS FASTER AND LESS EXPENSIVE , AND PRODUCES BETTER RESULTS IF YOU,
BUY FEWER HIGH QUALITY PARTS & DO THINGS CORRECTLY THE FIRST TIME
a few related threads that might help you build a better car

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-that-makes-many-of-the-cars-desirable.11244/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-of-grand-sport-corvette-hash-marks-etc.6849/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...e-to-run-reasonably-fast-in-street-trim.3404/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ket-race-not-transportation.14229/#post-72589

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-calculators-and-basic-math.10705/#post-72061

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ive-train-to-the-engine-combo.741/#post-70350

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-parts-and-a-logical-plan.7722/#post-68651

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-a-cobra-replica-kit-car.10356/#post-48297

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ting-started-in-the-car-hobby.339/#post-60187

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...gine-to-match-the-cam-specs.11764/#post-58001

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...y-in-building-a-good-engine.11682/#post-54682

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-info-worth-reading-through.11528/#post-53210

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...acing-info-lots-of-good-stuff.373/#post-52133

Indycars · Jun 2, 2017

I've been caught in the rain a few times. Once I remember a couple of motorcycles waiting
it out under a gas station canopy as I went by in a downpour. A member of the NTBA is
spending the summer hitting several National Parks in a TBucket towing a trailer(nothing
else). He has had to deal with the rain AND snow.

The car is called SST, he works with stainless steel in his daily job. The frame, suspension
rods, fan shroud, valve covers, headers, air scoop..... etc is made of SS

Grumpy · Oct 30, 2017

grumpy I have a few basic tools ,but I,ve found that every time I start a project I seem to be getting in over my head or I don,t have the tools required...now I do expect Ill need to acquire the tools and skills but this seems a bit over whelming, at times. any ideas?

This hobby almost mandates that you either have a few knowledgeable friends to , act as mentors and teachers, and /or your fully willing to spend a good deal of time helping out your friends with their projects, and learning skills on their cars that you can later use to work on your car.
now doing a good deal of reading sure helps but getting your hands a bit greasy doing projects with ideally a mentor helps a great deal.
if you want to find a mentor its a good idea to join a couple local hot rod clubs or corvette clubs and offer to work on other peoples cars to gain experience.
most of us started out by buying a basic tool assortment from some place like sears.
but be aware they up the tool count by including a good deal of nearly useless tools on sets that cost over about $200.
youll very quickly find out which tools you need simply by working on cars and of course the type of jobs you do will have a huge effect on what tools youll want to buy.
and if your budget is limited as most of us must deal with, there are a few basic hand tools like hammers and wrenches, ratchets ,theres also a wide selection of tools you can get at yard sales, at auto part store sales and from places like HARBOR FREIGHT that will function, they don,t tend to be near the quality of snap-on but they don,t cost nearly as much and for the home mechanic they will generally get the job done, but Id stay away from any HF power tool most are very low quality.
If your like most of us, you'll acquire the tools you need as the need arises in most cases, but Id read the links and start out with the purchase of a basic mechanics set of ratchets,wrenches, sockets, screw drivers, etc.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-311-...SellerId=Sears&prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...o-the-true-hot-rodder-spirit.3899/#post-39711

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...l-members-and-may-help-more.11389/#post-52160

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-over-your-head-in-projects.4687/#post-15320

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...etting-started-in-the-car-hobby.339/#post-415

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...the-car-body-and-mechanicals.9612/#post-35603

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...y-back-in-the-late-1960s-70s.5466/#post-16337

most of us find we accumulate tools on the basis of what we need at the time when we run into a job we can,t do with the tools we own.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/starter-tool-set.6032/#post-18696

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/what-hand-tools-to-buy.4069/#post-10827

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/labeling-your-tool-chest-drawers.3283/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ete-but-it-will-get-you-started.834/#post-125

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/tool-boxes-and-chests.10357/page-3#post-64730

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bare-minimum-tools.11026/#post-51843

would suggest purchase of a semi-decent quality floor jack
https://www.harborfreight.com/3-ton-daytona-professional-steel-floor-jack-super-duty-63183.html

and 4 12 ton rated jack stands
https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-steel-jack-stands-61599.html

and a cheap mechanics creeper
https://www.harborfreight.com/40-in-300-lb-capacity-low-profile-creeper-69262.html
a couple work lamps
https://www.harborfreight.com/long-line-fluorescent-work-light-46890.html

and suggest you try to only work on level concrete floors

Grumpy · Jan 21, 2018

GRUMPY HELP!!!
I was given an older 1966 chevelle that no longer runs, the original engines long gone!
my neighbor who owned it had a stroke and died
, his wife signed the title over to me , asking only that I don,t junk the car but repair it.
I was also given a chevy V8 he had in his garage, and was informed, its a good, but well worn chevy 350 engine,
that has what I'm told is a TH350 automatic transmission, bolted too it.
That is supposedly also in good working condition,
that engine needs to be rebuilt, so if thats the case,
I'm looking forward to learning the required skills ,
I have a basic mechanics tool set and I've done simple stuff like replacing a water pump on the same car when it was running.

start with the basics and that in this case would mean buying and reading,
a few related books and watching a few videos,
heres some useful linked info
don,t ignore the sub-links and it helps to have a knowledgeable mentor ,
thus joining at least one large local hot rod or corvette club would be to your advantage.
it may seem an over whelming task,
but anyone who is willing to read links and ask questions who is not afraid to get his hands greasy,
you'll need to find and visit a machine shop and work with and purchase a few hundred dollars worth of tools,
and buy the required replacement parts and correctly install and clearance them,
and ask questions if you get stuck, rather than make expensive mistakes, can rebuild an engine.
back in the 1960s-mid 1980s I learned a great deal about how not to do what "LARRY" my friend did,as he wasted a great deal of cash and constantly got screwed by machine shops, by not paying attention to details and documenting everything he did or paid for, ordered or had machined, accurately, failing to measure and verify work, failing to verify clearances, and failing to have detailed receipts.
LARRY was always looking for "DEALS" and NEVER seemed to grasp the idea that some parts would not work well together, if he got a great price of a mildly used solid roller cam, he would not even look up the specs or verify clearances before or after installing it to "TRY THAT BAD PUPPY OUT" which frequently resulted in some very expensive and entertaining disasters ( but good for learning what not to try, and how expensive being clueless can be)
yeah I know a few of you would rather gargle broken glass scrap than read links and sub-links but trust me if I tell you in the long term, youll gain a wealth of info you need to use to build an exceptional and durable engine, the secret is mostly in getting each component working to its maximum efficiency and in maximizing durability, you won,t win many races or enjoy owning the car if it spends most of its life being repaired or waiting for replacement components to arive, and in many cases simply thinking things through, and selecting the best quality matched components you can afford, and carefully installing them with the correct clearances and lubrication and cooling goes a long way to reaching that goal.
if you, as the engine builder, have a choice.
ID suggest you always give up that 5% in peak power potential,you might get by running on the ragged edge , if you can gain 10%-20% increased durability, by not pushing things to just at the point the parts are likely to fail, and knowing that point takes either experience or knowledge gained by watching others fail. and in many cases thats an option if you fully understand exactly how and why things are intended to function.
THINK THINGS THROUGH!
porting that intake port wall paper thin , pushing the rpm's you your constantly bouncing the valve train into valve float, or not having consistent oil flow on the critical components might seem like a route to gain an edge in power needed to win races, its much more likely to see you drain your checking account trying to do expensive repair work when components get pushed to the point of catastrophic failure

Grumpy · Jul 21, 2018

I'm always rather amazed when I go to car shows or talk too guys that have some rather nice muscle car,around PALM BEACH FLA there are commonly parking lot car shows with local clubs displaying the members cars, I saw one this last weekend and stopped to look around get ideas, and chat.
and almost without fail I might see something nice and find a few contacts or find parts for sale.
I might even, eventually get into some discussion about what their "DREAM CAR MIGHT BE"
and Ive rarely met anyone, no mater what car they owned or were working on or had on display,
that stated that the the car they dream about owning is the one they are leaning on at the moment!
now with most of us its simply a mater of lack of cash, and if I see some guy who dreams of owning a original AC cobra,
but owns a KR 500 mustang clone theres a huge difference in cost and most of us could never cough up the 6 figure price tag the original Shelby AC cobra car now costs.
but at other times I have to shake my head and wonder what they were thinking.
at a recent car show I was looking around and found what looked like a pristine 427 BBC 1967 corvette , it was very impressive , it looked like it was very close to original,
now the car I saw was maroon, and the pictures I posted below are not his car, but the quality was similar, with a black interior .
the guy stated he was a doctor and about my age, and was soon too retire.
,the pictures I post here are not that car, just similar in appearance as I had no camera, at the time!
His corvette, looked very similar to this one, and it had according to the guy I was talking to a 325 hp 396 engine in the car as the car was rebuilt from a rather
badly damaged car that had been stolen and the original drive train was long gone, when he purchased the car from a salvage yard,almost 34 years earlier, and he had lucked out and found and purchased the correct three deuce oval port intake
too build a 400 hp 427, but he had installed a th350 that came from a second donor car at the time he had bought the 395 engine, and in the last 34 years the car had had maybe at the most 100-200 miles a year of drive time.
now I would think that in the last 34 years he could have built a 400 hp 427 long block, or for that mater installed a 572 BBC if he had wanted to, but after talking to the guy he said, he was great at interiors, paint and body work, but he was intimidated by engines and had, had a few buddies he now did not know where to contact any longer, help install the 396 BBC, in the car.
and over the last 34 years he had been too many car shows and won several awards, but he had always wanted to install a L88 or similat LS7 kick butt and take names engine with 500 hp plus, yet he never had the guys to do the engine swap.
I asked him if it was the cost that was the issue and he said no, he had more than a reasonable budget, but after talking to dozens of corvette shops he was convinced it was going to cost him $20 K and months of down time and he had heard so many stories about shops ripping guys off, doing shoddy work and in fact damaging cars that he had just decided to live with the current combo.
I pointed out that there were a few qualified and competent corvette shops in the south florida area, and he could certainly buy or build or have a custom engine built to his ideal specs, and have the engine installed, I even gave him this web sites address and introduced myself and suggested I might be able to help, if he was interested in getting personally involved in the process.
I also suggested he log on, register and look around and decide if that was an option he might want too pursue.
I also pointed out there are several nationally known engine builders, and several local shops with good reputations, who could provide him with exactly what he might want built if he was uncomfortable working on the car himself.
now I know what some of you guys are about to ask, and yeah I suggested I was willing to help if he wanted to buy an engine and swap it in or if he wanted to get his hands a bit oily and learn the details and I'd show him how exactly to build his own engine and install it, but I strongly suggested he at least register on the web site and look around and ask questions.
at the very least he could expand his knowledhge base and become more comfortable around engines and we could certainly use his expertise on body work, interiours, dashes, paint etc. as the quality of the car spoke volumes about his skill in those areas.
I guess we will see what happens

yeah its unfortunately a fact that this hobby is a FINANCIAL, BOTTOMLESS pit ,
for parts and tools required, and every time without fail, if you even begin to think
that you have something working correctly , something either breaks ,
on your car or expensive tools, or you see some vastly better,
stronger or more tech advanced component advertised,
or you find out you could do some job far faster ,
and to much improved specs if you purchased some tools you don,t yet own.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...hine-tools-like-a-mill-lathe.8340/#post-76623

a logical progression and a few thoughts

I constantly get people posting about the mistakes they made or less than ideal choices in component selection they made. in most cases if you ask them several questions you'll rapidly find they either just started out modifying the car they owned without giving the project much thought as to...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

Maniacmechanic1 · Jul 21, 2018

I have always admired the Craftsmanship put into Corvettes stock.

Grown tired of most Corvette owners other than us as a group Grumpy.

Probably because the other half of me is a Pontiac guy.

think thru your goals

grumpyvette

Administrator

philly

solid fixture here in the forum

Indycars

Administrator

philly

solid fixture here in the forum

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.

Indycars

Administrator

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.

a logical progression and a few thoughts

Maniacmechanic1

solid fixture here in the forum