Trickle charger

busterrm

solid fixture here in the forum
Hey Rick(Indycars),
Here is a picture of the plugpack I have, its from an old IBM laptop pc. I am not a electronics kinda guy, so I thought if you looked at the picture you may be able to tell me if its ideal for a trickle charger.
It says the output is 16V - 4.5A, is that too much?
 

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busterrm said:
It says the output is 16V - 4.5A, is that too much?

That's too much if you are wanting trickle charger or battery tender.

The one I'm using is rated at 12VDC & 1 Amp. It actually puts out about 14-15 volts
and .6-.8 amps when charging a battery that already charged. When I connect the
resistor in series, then the current drops to .25 amps.

You need a DMM so you can tell what actually happening with whatever you use. They
can be bought for $20 and up. Just make sure it can measure the amps that you need.

 

You are not going save much money, it's just fun to do if you already have the stuff. You can get a battery tender at Harbor Freight for $10. With a big enough resistor you might make yours work I guess. but you will need a meter.

If you don't have one by the next time we get together, I might have something you could have.

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsea ... ery+tender

I bought this meter for $20 and it can measure up to 10 amps.

http://www.amazon.com/INNOVA-3320-Auto- ... nnova+3320




 

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I have a volt meter, might have to be walked through how to set up the resistor! If I had a resistor that would limit it down to 10% it would be .45 amps
 
okay, here is a picture of it!
 

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looks like it doesn't measure amps, it measures volts and ohms.
the plugpack does measure at 16v though.
 

That doesn't measure current, just voltage AC/DC and resistance. Unless
you want to make a project out of this, just spend $10.

Not sure what resistance you would start with, but I suppose you can measure
the voltage drop across the resistor and calculate the current. You might end
up spending $10 for the different resistors a couple of hours, but you would
learn something.

 
Using Ohm's Law, I think a 50 ohm resister will bring it down to 3.375 amps so a 150 ohm resistor will bring it down to .75 amps.
I can get 6-150 ohm resistors on ebay for $3.80.
 

How many watts can they handle? Probably a 1/4 watt I would guess.

You would need to calculate, but in the article they are using 5 watt resistors. I know
it's possible, but real sure exactly what you are going to need. It does look like you
might need a resistor in parallel and series to get the proper voltage and current going
to the battery.

Wait and see if Bytor or Mathieu respond, they are better at this electrical stuff.
 
Well its not really simple.
And this is not a trickle charger(pulse mode, half wave rectifier charging every half cycle) its more like constant voltage/current
16v-12v = 4volt drop/1amp = 4 ohm.
4V x 1amp=4watt, best to use 6 watt resistor or more
Thats for a charging current of 1 amp on a 12volt battery(in a perfect world)

If the battery is really low, it will output more that 1 amp and burn up.
So worst case scenario if the battery is like 0 volt(shorted inside, or you have a short for whatever reason)
16v/4.5amp=3.55ohm=72watt
Or with our 4 ohm resistor 16/4=4amp=64watt
Am pretty sure the charger has a short circuit protection anyway but this way it will not overload it and cannot damage it.. but the resistor may not be happy.
So your resistor need to be much bigger... around 100 watt otherwise it will smoke up in a short circuit scenario.
You dont want a circuit that will make smoke when the wires are touching? :)
Thats where you want to start fusing the circuit.

To be more realist
Well, a battery should never go below 8 volt(below 8volt SULPHATION start).
so 16volt PS - 8volt battery=8volt drop
8v/4ohm=2amp
8volt x 2amp = 16 watt..
Its a little better but we can see that a 5 watt resistor is still too small anyway.
So adjust for 1 amp at 8 volt battery.
that will be 8 ohm and 8 watt. now a 10 watt resistor could be used but its still a little small. and you get only 500mA on a 12 volt battery(well, its OK for the purpose of this circuit).
But Do Not short the wires or the resistor will blow up ;)
And best to use ROHS resistor or flame retardant stuff.
i like to use resistor wattage = 1.5 time the circuit wattage.

Anyway, short answer is, someone could guesstimate it and do it with a 5ohm 5 watt resistor(well, i dont think they are making 4 or 8 ohm 5-10 watt resistor anyway. just make sure your not shorting the wires and your battery is not too low(ie below 12volt) Or simply use a fuse ~1A ;). There, if your using a battery at 11volt, it will output 1 amp and 5 watt power dissipation for the resistor(or blow the fuse before the resistor blows up, soo.. its not working like we want) because its on the bare limit of the wattahe (too much to be a safe and stable design).. maby use some heat sink on that resistor :) - but i WILL NOT risk it. That can be easily figured out, with the resistor ohm and watt value
problem is more the 16V output of the PS... you may want to regulate or drop it to probably 14.7 volt?? am not sure on that voltage. how much is needed to keep that battery charged?

Nothing stop it from overcharging/overvoltage ruining the battery at 16volt?,
I guess someone could use some serie diode to create a voltage drop(to about 14.7Volt??) or ALOT better a zener diode and use a power transistor so you don't have to source a high wattage diode and resistor and it vill be voltage regulated and can easilly include current sensing/protection. Thats a big change in the design, but can be done with very little component.

Another way is using a voltage regulator and power transistor. so its at the correct voltage(whatever the input voltage is), and the current is also regulated.
Much more simple, part are harder to source when building from scratch. But at this point, probably less hassle to buy one..

EDIT: if you want to measure the maximum output current of your PS,
Just use a big wattage low value resistor between + and - and measure the voltage drop accross it and use the ohm law. ;)
But be carefull, it should have a short circuit protection/over current.. but maby not, so you dont want to ruin it.
Measuring the maximum output current will probably prove to be useless since you want to design a circuit that will not overload the 4.5amp limit of your PS in all case anyway.
 
This could be easy as using a lm7812(12v regulator, 1amp~ with short circuit protection and thermal protection) voltage regulator using 3 diode in serie with the ground terminal to raise it to 2.1volt.
So the 12 volt + the 2.1 add to a 14.2 charging voltage(or make it adjustable with a switch across the diodes) could do it with just resistor too, at the expense of more idle current from the circuit.
Then using one of the short circuit/current limit protection exemple from the 7812 datasheet(could make it adjustable with a potentiometer). This will allow more output current if needed.
http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datashe ... 9144_1.pdf
p25 fig 13.

and add some amp/volt meter and leds if you want fancy.
it could work up to about 35v dc in, could accept ac volt input too if you add a rectifier/diodes.

+ a diode in the output, so the circuit is not discharging the battery when its not plugged in or if there is a power outage.
 

Ok, but this was easy just a couple of hours ago. Is this all based on busterrm
power supply rated at 16v - 4.5 amp???

Can you draw a circuit diagram with part numbers and maybe an estimated total
price?

I've been using a 12v, 1 amp wall wort with a 3-5 ohm resistor in series
and getting a .25 amp charge rate. I don't trust it for more than about 12 hours,
but sometimes I forget about it and it will be 36 hours before I get back to
checking the voltage. So far so good.

 
Indycars said:

Ok, but this was easy just a couple of hours ago. Is this all based on busterrm
power supply rated at 16v - 4.5 amp???

Can you draw a circuit diagram with part numbers and maybe an estimated total
price?

I've been using a 12v, 1 amp wall wort with a 3-5 ohm resistor in series
and getting a .25 amp charge rate. I don't trust it for more than about 12 hours,
but sometimes I forget about it and it will be 36 hours before I get back to
checking the voltage. So far so good.

look at this page 24 figure 8.
http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datashe ... 9144_1.pdf
Could be simple as that + a few diode in serie with the GND terminal (pin 2) to set the charging voltage a little higher that 12v. and a diode in serie with the output between pin3 to battery.

EDIT:
yes it will work with anything between 14 and 35 vold DC.
There is many way to do it, especially with short circuit protection, current limit.
Can add a short circuit led + reset button. or page 25 fig 13 on the pdf above.

edit2:
It got more complicated because he is using a 16 volt wall wart. not a 12v one putting out about 13-14 volt(in an ideal world like in the first link on page 1, hes not lucky as much as you are lol) dont want the battery gassing/boiling.
normal charging is 13.2-14.4 volt
MAX 13.2volt for continuous charging.
Also about your wall wart. how much volt its putting out? at 12.1volt a battery is only 50%charged. 11.7v = 0%, 12.66v = 100%
and over 13.2 or 13.2-14.4 if not continuously charging its already too much lol
 
Yes, i could probably make a schematic, diagram or layout, with parts list + price. I may need the help of Bytor to make it better and confirm am correct(i dont have the parts at home to test the circuit and am pretty sure he have some interesting input for developping the idea)
i like to get my stuff from mouser.com

I have everything at home to make custom PCB too :).
 
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