valve springs

hi grumpy, im rebuilding a 350 , im checking the valve spring for squareness, it seems all the springs that I have checked, are not fully square, I have not done all of them yet, they are used , im taking the heads apart and checking condition of valve ,seats, springs, guides. But the question I have is ,is there any tolerance allowed for spring squareness, they are not fully square all around. there is some gap on top of spring against a square edge? thanks
 
if you could post clear pictures it would be really helpful, to understand exactly what your referring to, it would also be useful to know what cam and lifters and rockers , retainers etc. your intending to use

valve springs are not square, they need to sit on a cup shim and use an upper retainer with keepers
ID prefer to use the hardened steel, cup style, valve spring seats, rather than the inner spring diam. style spring seats, if I have the room with the proper machine work of course.
but those are mostly used with single springs , the inner spring diam. seats
valvespringseats.png

are frequently used with dual valve springs and a damper, so you will be using the matched components depending on existing clearances

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once installed the valve spring max length is the installed height,
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max lift is installed height minus .060 minus coil bind
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viewtopic.php?f=52&t=553&p=744&hilit=rocker+studs#p744

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http://www.summitracing.com/search/...d-length-checkers?autoview=SKU&ibanner=SREPD5
Proform Pushrod Length Checkers 66789 SBC 3/8" rocker studs

Proform Pushrod Length Checkers 66790 SBC 7/16" rocker studs

Proform Pushrod Length Checkers 66806 BBC 7/16" rocker studs


READ THESE LINKS


http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...per-valve-spring-seats-shims.1005/#post-15534

https://www.pspring.com/products/engine-valve-springs/




http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... ewall.html
 
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heres some pictures of the spring, im using a stock camshaft, stock rocker arms, stock retainers, this is an oem rebuild. stock cam lift,
thanks
 

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sorry but I can,t tell a thing from those blurry photos

heres a link to decent stock valve spring replacements
if your current valve springs are of un-known age or condition Id suggest you replace them and check clearances carefully.
old weak valve springs can cause problems and tend to limit the engine rpm potential and durability, valve springs get weaker with use and age, after about 6 years most are noticeably less resilient and lose load pressure, costing the engine hundreds of rpms in upper rpm valve control


They are a direct drop-in replacement for most small block Chevrolet applications. These springs will provide more open and closed pressure to maintain proper valve train stability on high performance cams. Valve spring maximum lift is 0.525". Be sure to check for proper retainer , seal, and guide clearance before installation on all valve springs! AND READ THRU THE LINKS PROVIDED EARLIER

https://sdparts.com/details/scoggin-dic ... ter/sd1004

BETTER BUT STILL CHEAP SPRINGS
http://store.procompelectronics.com/p-1 ... of-16.aspx
but your likely to need machine work to get the proper clearances
clear.jpg


Is coil bind height and open height the same thing? The springs I'm wanting to go with have an installed height of 1.940 and open height of 1.250. With .600 exhaust lift, does that give me .090 before coil bind?

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installed height is open height, the springs set up to provide a minimal resistance before it can be compressed further, the cam card below may help
crane110921.jpg

notice the listed info
cranesp1.png

A BIT OF QUICK RESEARCH


Crane Cams#271-99846-16
Single Valve Springs
Outside Diameter: 1.255"
Inside Diameter: .870
Seat Pressure: 125 LBS @ 1.800"
Open Pressure: 383 LBS @ 1.200
Coil Bind: 1.100"
Rate (LBS/IN.): 428
Max Lift: .640
Set of 16

http://www.jegs.com/i/Crane-Cams/271/99846-16/10002/-1


notice the coil bind height PLUS, approximately the .090 is the listed max lift, and the max lift on the cam or open height is a bit less.
engines require clearances to work correctly and with valve springs having a bit of extra clearance helps durability, this is generally one reason WHY cams are sold with a strongly suggested set of load rates and clearances so they can operate under know and expected stress levels they were designed for
 
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Valve spring squareness question. I have been tracking down a tick at idle. It's intermittent and I can hear it the loudest on the #7 exhaust manifold runner. I moved the spring, retainer/rotator to the #5 exhaust and the noise moved. I suspected maybe a noisy rotator but then I started looking at the spring. I pulled the #1, #3 and #5 exhaust springs and components for a compression. The only thing I can see that is different is the spring squareness measurement using this method.
valvespringseats.png

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The spring in question measures right at .0625" at the top while the others are under .020"...
I cant seem to find a specific spec for this measurement but it seem 1/16" is the max you want.

Could this be contributing to my tick??

It's a little hard to see the gap difference at the top in the following pictures

.0625" at the top between the spring and the straight edge.
IMG_2585.JPG

.020" or less.....
IMG_2586.JPG

THESE LINKS MAY ALSO PROVE TO BE USEFUL


viewtopic.php?f=52&t=7716&p=29813#p29813

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=528&p=46440&hilit=shims#p46440

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=903&p=12435&hilit=valve+spring+compressor#p12435

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=2787&p=7220&hilit=valve+spring+compressor#p7220
valve spring compressors
the valve spring compressor design you use and the use of a large strong magnet can significantly reduce the tendency of those little S.O.B,s from poping off to parts unknown
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http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DCA
$12 or so spent on a decent magnet placed next to the valve keepers during the removal process tends to significantly reduce the chances of lost valve keepers
valve spring compressors
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the valve spring compressor design you use and the use of a large strong magnet can significantly reduce the tendency of those little S.O.B,s from poping off to parts unknown, having the correct tools helps a great deal
DCAL.jpg

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DCA
$12 or so spent on a decent magnet placed next to the valve keepers during the removal process tends to significantly reduce the chances of lost valve keepers

valve spring compressors
this cheap type is well known for loosing valve keepers unless a strong magnets used
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http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/62371/10002/-1
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first Id like too say GREAT JOB , WHY? well I see so many times guys never bother to check a darn thing until its obviously a part that totally failed in service, and catching this early probably prevented a far more expensive repair.
any time you find an inconsistency in the valve train components, dimensionally.
it generally indicates either wear or something that's just not right in the valve train.
Id suspect that the valve spring thats not sitting square is loosing its tension, so I'd have all the valve springs tested or replaced.
I know Ive always wanted to buy a decent valve spring test tool, as its a P.I.T.A. to take the springs you want tested to a local machine shop and pay to have the springs load rates checked and trust the guy whose doing the testing both gets it done correctly and bothers to separate the springs into different boxes . labeled with the load rates,if he finds some that do not show the correct load rates,thus in many cases guys just replace all the suspected springs after finding a couple they don,t think are correct.

I buy most of my replacement valve springs from these guys
http://www.racingsprings.com/
(866) 799-9417
http://www.racingsprings.com/Staff
heres their ph#
Toll Free (866) 799-9417
I always just order the springs retainers valve locks and spring seats as a package deal (NOT CHEAP BUT EVERYTHING WORKS AND FITS) then you just need shims under the valve spring seats occasionally to get the correct installed height
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ting-up-the-valve-train.181/page-2#post-54091

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66776/overview/


PRO-66776_xl.jpg


http://www.racingsprings.com/1300-Series-/1300-Series-/sku/33

http://www.racingsprings.com/1500-series/sku/34

good quality valve springs are fairly expensive, youll generally pay $250-$450 for decent valve springs and many guys start looking for far cheaper imported sets, that are of lower quality, at bargain prices, the problem is that you generally find a set, and comparing the price it makes it hard for some guys to remember YOU GENERALLY GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR AND THERE'S A DARN GOOD REASON THE IMPORTED PARTS ARE CHEAPER
 
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^ 110% accurate... you really do get what you pay for. that doesnt mean that every motor needs a jesel shaft mounted rocker system or a belt drive timing set.... but buying good quality replacement parts that are suitable for YOUR application can make all the difference in the world.
 
Good info, thanks guys. The engine "TPI L98" is bone stock and I assume these are the original 1987 springs. At 28 years old and 50K miles on the engine do you think this is normal wear? I'm gone pick up a replacement spring and see if that changes anything.

I still cant seem to find a GM small block spec. on valve spring squareness. The service C4 manual dosent mention it ether.
 
ALWAYS ASK THE CAM MANUFACTURER WHAT VALVE SPRINGS SHOULD BE USED< AND INSTALL SPECS WITH ANY CAM PURCHASED,

index.php

AS a GENERAL rule any spring thats more than 1/16" out of square
(thats a distance of .062) in the diagram posted above, is something best use to fill a dumpster


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Lunati Part # 73043

1.266 OUTSIDE DIAMETER---1.750 INSTALLED HEIGHT---MAXIMUM LIFT .630---SINGLE SPRING WITH DAMPER. CAN BE USED AS A SOLID LIFT OR HYDRAULIC FLAT TAPPET ALSO
spring pressures are 108lbs seat / 339lbs open
steel spring seat cups, placed under the valve spring protect the aluminum heads , other wise the vibrating spring base eats into the head surface, shims under the steel spring seat allow you to get the correct installed compressed height

read all links and sub links

http://www.jegs.com/p/COMP-Cams/Comp-Cams-Spring-Seat-Guide-Cutters/773415/10002/-1

http://www.zippersperformance.com/valve-spring-seat-guide-machining-tools.html

http://www.compcams.com/Pages/415/truth-about-valve-springs.aspx

http://www.supercarsunlimited.com/info/tech/springs/springs.htm

https://www.motorstate.com/mobileapp/techValveSpringBasics.html

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STEEL VALVE SPRING SEAT CUPS ARE MANDATORY TO PREVENT VALVE SPRINGS DAMAGING ALUMINUM HEADS
(in some cases shims will be needed to get the correct valve spring compressed height)
If more than one is used, the thickest shim goes on top next to the spring base!
seal3.jpg


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http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ting-up-the-valve-train.181/page-2#post-19783
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lun-73943k1/overview/

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/vemp-0208-upgrading-cylinder-heads-l98-chevrolet-corvette-motor/
 
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Update, replaced the spring and rotator in question with a new ones. The tick is gone and things are much quieter. I got 4 new springs and none of them are perfectly straight. I believe this is because of how they are made. Having said this, none of them were anywhere near 0.0625" out of whack.

I suppose the 1/16" figure could be far enough out of squareness to cause the valve stem, spring or valve head it self to make a racket.

I only replaced the one spring and rotator. I'm going to drop by the local machine shop and have them check the old spring pressures out. The strange thing is these heads were rebuilt almost a year and half ago so you would imagine they checked the springs. Don't know.

Or, maybe the rotator is at fault.
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I could not detect any difference in feel or sound between the one on question and the others when I had them out of the engine. Not sure whats inside the rotator but it kinda feels like a bearing of some sort. I marked all the rotators and they were all rotating the valves at idle normally prior to dissembling anything.

I will run things as if for a bit them maybe pop the old rotation back on to confirm the culprit.
 
While not relevant in any way... :p I went to check bytor's profile to see if he had done a 383 build thread and the internet was trying to send me a message...... weird..o_O ha!

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lots of knowledge there... i check back through things ive read here often as they come up in conversatio i say "oh shit i read that on grumpys before" and go look it up
 
I watched that video, and my first thought was......
hey I'm a tool junky, so what will this new tool do for me?
great, she has a rocker and she is depressing a valve spring and it reads 100 psi?
NOW what?

what does that tell her?
how far was the valve spring depressed too read 100 psi? if the valve retainer moved with that tool on the rocker at 100 psi, then thats a ROUGH guide to finding valve seat pressure
what she has there is a tool that might easily be used to locate a cracked or broken valve spring,
but not much else in the way of useful data, could be found with it, so what good is it? you could most likely do that the old way with a quick push down on each valve spring retainer with an educated/ experienced thumb!
it sure looks like these gals were selected because they look good in a video, and they probably had a 3 minute long ..Q-card based education on what to say and do, for the VIDEO.....if it was my choice and looking at the tools vs what they do for me I'm rather inclined to spend $515 and get something REALLY USEFUL

$220 for this
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-67597/overview/
pro-67597_cp.jpg


$268 for this
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66774/overview/
pro-66774_5_w.jpg


$515 for this
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66776/overview/
PRO-66776_xl.jpg


PROFORM's new billet aluminum 1000 lb digital bench top spring tester is the most accurate way to check spring pressure. Check springs up to 1.5" in diameter and 3 7/8" in height. Digital display reads in 1 lb (0.5 kg) increments, and has a back lighting feature. Peak hold and automatic shutoff are other included features. Search part number 66776 at ProformParts.com for more information.


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66776
 
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