why not a short 6.135 rod 496?

grumpyvette

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Staff member
why not a short 6.135 rod BIG BLOCK 496?
READ THIS LINK ALSO
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=5328&p=15876&hilit=balancing#p15876

I get this question frequently from guys wanting to keep cost down in building a stroker 454 BIG BLOCK CHEVY engine, especially once they realize that its about the same as building a big block version of the 350-to-383 SMALL BLOCK stroker concept,and because they want to keep cost down,they want to reuse as many stock 454 components as they can, but the fact is that theres several reasons its not usually a good idea,yes adding a 1/4" stroker crank to the stock 4" 454 stroke making it a 4.25" stroke is a fairly effective way to both increase displacement and with the correct pistons increase compression with a smaller piston dome than a 454 with its stock 4" stroke could use.
one of my most common builds is designed for a street driven muscle car and its based on a 10.2:1 compression 489 -496 displacement big block engine, the heads intake and cam choices depend a good deal on the application of course, but a upper engine kit like this, trickflow linked below or one of the brodix combos
http://www.brodix.com/heads/topendcombos.php

http://www.trickflow.com/partdetail.asp ... toview=sku
tfs-k413-580-560.jpg


a rotating assembly like this
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-1-42360-60/
sca-1-40005bl.jpg

intake like this makes a good basic package
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-7561/

edl-7561.jpg


While planing the build, you may want to look into an INTERNALLY BALANCED 496 STROKER CRANK AND ROTATING ASSEMBLY, the larger counter weights the 6.385 rods allow generally do allow either crank balance method to be selected, but youll need to swap to a 427 internally balanced damper and flywheel if you use an internally balanced rotating assembly, which at first seems like an additional expense until you find most tracks will only allow SFI certified dampers and flywheels in most serious race classes and a blow proof bell housing so youll be buying new parts in most cases and an internally balanced rotating assembly tends to run smoother and put less strain on rods and bearings
having larger counter weights tends to make it far less expensive to balance a rotating assembly compared to using Mallory metal inserts
but keep in mind rod and rod bolt strength are critical and those BIG BLOCK PISTONS AND RODS tend to be heavy.

(1) first many if not all 3/8" rod bolt stock big block rods are not nearly as strong as the aftermarket 7/16" rod bolt forged 4340 steel rods
(2) next, the aftermarket 6.385" rods with the 7/16" rod bolts tend to both be less expensive that reusing the stock rods (remember the rod reconditioning, re-balancing,new rod bolts and polishing costs money) and give more counter weight to piston skirt clearance, making it much cheaper to balance the rotating assembly and giving you a marginal better rod to stroke ratio
(3) longer rods will use a piston with a shorter deck to pin height which tend to be lighter weight, and the difference in rod length doesn,t weight as much as the weight savings in piston mass.
(4)longer rods tend to have a bit less cylinder wall to piston drag as the thrust angle on the power strokes a bit better, yes its only a degree or so but over hundreds of thousands of revolutions it tends to reduce wear with a longer rod length
(5) but the main factor is that the longer 6.385" rods allow larger crankshaft counter weights that make balancing the rotating assembly easier to do and usually far less expensive

0704ch_07_z+chevy_big_block+.jpg

SHOP CAREFULLY THERE ARE COMPLETE BALANCED ROTATING ASSEMBLY'S AVAILABLE
0704ch_10_z+chevy_big_block+.jpg

rectangle head ports work best on high rpm combos with high compression (10.5:1 and higher) and cams with over about 250 duration
0704ch_11_z+chevy_big_block+.jpg

oval head ports work best onmid rpm combos with under 10:1 compression and cams with under about 240 duration
0704ch_14_z+chevy_big_block+.jpg

obviously the piston pin rides higher in a piston with a longer rod
0704ch_15_z+chevy_big_block+.jpg

good rods come in several lengths
0704ch_17_z+chevy_big_block+.jpg

LATE ONE PIECE SEAL CRANK LEFT, EARLY TWO PIECE REAR SEAL CRANK RIGHT, most aftermarket blocks are designed for early style cranks

sfund.jpg


p140811_image_large.jpg


CHEVY: Rotating Assemblies SCAT LISTS
CHEVY BIG BLOCK 4340 FORGED ROTATING ASSEMBLIES
CHEVY 454 BIG-BLOCK 2-PC REAR SEAL 454 MAIN, 4340 FORGED CRANKS, H-BEAM RODS WITH 7/16" CAP SCREWS
CI Crank Rod Piston Boresize Type 58cc 64cc 70cc Inclcrp Inclcrprb Compl
460 4-454-4000-6135 2-454-6135-2200 FORGED 4.280 FLAT 8.9 8.4 8.2 1-42005-1 1-42005 1-42005BE
460 4-454-4000-6135 2-454-6135-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 FLAT 8.9 8.4 8.2 1-42010-1 1-42010 1-42010BE
460 4-454-4000-6135 2-454-6135-2200 FORGED 4.280 DOME 13.7 12.8 11.9 1-42055-1 1-42055 1-42055BE
460 4-454-4000-6135 2-454-6135-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 DOME 13.7 12.8 11.9 1-42060-1 1-42060 1-42060BE
460 4-454-4000-6385 2-454-6385-2200 FORGED 4.280 FLAT 8.9 8.4 8.2 1-42105-1 1-42105 1-42105BI
460 4-454-4000-6385 2-454-6385-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 FLAT 8.9 8.4 8.2 1-42110-1 1-42110 1-42110BI
460 4-454-4000-6385 2-454-6385-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 DOME 14.0 12.7 11.7 1-42160-1 1-42160 1-42160BI
489 4-454-4250-6135 2-454-6135-2200 FORGED 4.280 FLAT 9.4 9.0 8.6 1-42255-1 1-42255 1-42255BE
489 4-454-4250-6135 2-454-6135-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 FLAT 9.4 9.0 8.6 1-42257-1 1-42257 1-42257BE
489 4-454-4250-6135 2-454-6135-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 DOME 10.5 10.0 9.5 1-42260-1 1-42260 1-42260BE
489 4-454-4250-6385 2-454-6385-2200 FORGED 4.280 FLAT 8.9 8.5 8.2 1-42305-1 1-42305 1-42305BI
489 4-454-4250-6385 2-454-6385-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 FLAT 9.4 9.0 8.6 1-42310-1 1-42310 1-42310BI
489 4-454-4250-6385 2-454-6385-2200 FORGED 4.280 DOME 10.8 10.2 9.7 1-42355-1 1-42355 1-42355BI
489 4-454-4250-6385 2-454-6385-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 DOME 10.7 10.2 9.7 1-42360-1 1-42360 1-42360BI

CHEVY 540 BIG-BLOCK 2-PC REAR SEAL, 9.780 SHORT DECK 454 MAIN, 4340 FORGED CRANKS, H-BEAM RODS WITH 7/16" CAP SCREWS
CI Crank Rod Piston Boresize Type 58cc 64cc 70cc Inclcrp Inclcrprb Compl
540 4-454-4250-6385 2-454-6385-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.500 FLAT 9.8 9.4 9.0 1-42370-1 1-42370 1-42370BI
540 4-454-4250-6385 2-454-6385-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.500 DISH 8.7 8.4 8.2 1-42375-1 1-42375 1-42375BI
540 4-454-4250-6385 2-454-6385-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.500 DOME 14.8 13.5 12.27 1-42380-1 1-42380
1-42380BI
CHEVY 454 BIG-BLOCK 2-PC REAR SEAL, 10.200 TALL DECK 454 MAIN, 4340 FORGED CRANKS, H-BEAM RODS WITH 7/16" CAP SCREWS
CI Crank Rod Piston Boresize Type 58cc 64cc 70cc Inclcrp Inclcrprb Compl
572 4-454-4500-6535 2-454-6535-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.500 FLAT 10.0 9.7 9.4 1-42385-1 1-42385 1-42385BI
572 4-454-4500-6535 2-454-6535-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.500 DISH 8.8 8.5 8.2 1-42390-1 1-42390 1-42390BI
572 4-454-4500-6535 2-454-6535-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.500 DOME 15.5 13.1 12.2 1-42392-1 1-42392 1-42392BI
598 4-454-4500-6535 2-454-6700-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.600 FLAT 10.0 9.7 9.4 1-42395-1 1-42395 1-42395BI
598 4-454-4500-6535 2-454-6700-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.600 DOME 15.5 13.1 12.2 1-42397-1 1-42397 1-42397BI
CHEVY 454 BIG-BLOCK 1-PC REAR SEAL 454 MAIN, 4340 FORGED CRANKS, H-BEAM RODS WITH 7/16" CAP SCREWS
CI Crank Rod Piston Boresize Type 58cc 64cc 70cc Inclcrp Inclcrprb Compl
489 4-454-4250-6385-L 2-454-6385-2200 FORGED 4.280 FLAT 8.7 8.4 8.0 1-42405-1 1-42405 1-42405BI
489 4-454-4250-6385-L 2-454-6385-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 FLAT 9.4 9.0 8.6 1-42410-1 1-42410 1-42410BI

489 4-454-4250-6135-L 2-454-6135-2200 FORGED 4.280 FLAT 9.4 9.0 8.6 1-42450-1 1-42450 1-42450BE
489 4-454-4250-6135-L 2-454-6135-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 FLAT 9.4 9.0 8.6 1-42452-1 1-42452 1-42452BE
489 4-454-4250-6135-L 2-454-6135-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 DOME 10.5 10.0 9.5 1-42454-1 1-42454 1-42454BE
489 4-454-4250-6385-L 2-454-6385-2200 FORGED 4.280 DOME 10.5 10.0 9.5 1-42455-1 1-42455 1-42455BI
489 4-454-4250-6385-L 2-454-6385-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 DOME 10.7 10.2 9.7 1-42460-1 1-42460
1-42460BI
540 4-454-4250-6385-L 2-454-6385-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.500 FLAT 10.2 9.8 9.4 1-42500-1 1-42500 1-42500BI
540 4-454-4250-6385-L 2-454-6385-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.500 DOME 10.8 10.3 9.9 1-42505-1 1-42505 1-42505BI
540 4-454-4250-6385-L 2-454-6385-2200 PREMIUM FORGED 4.500 DISH 9.8 9.4 9.0 1-42510-1 1-42510 1-42510BI




CHEVY: Rotating Assemblies
CHEVY BIG BLOCK SERIES 9000 ROTATING ASSEMBLIES
CHEVY 454 BIG-BLOCK 2-PC REAR SEAL 454 MAIN, SERIES 9000 CAST CRANKS, I-BEAM RODS WITH 7/16" CAP SCREWS
CI Crank Rod Piston Boresize Type 58cc 64cc 70cc Inclcrp Inclcrprb Compl
460 9-10454 2-ICR6135-7/16 FORGED 4.280 FLAT 8.9 8.4 8.2 1-92250-1 1-92250 1-92250BE
460 9-10454 2-ICR6135-7/16 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 FLAT 8.9 8.4 8.2 1-92252-1 1-92252 1-92252BE
460 9-10454 2-ICR6135-7/16 HYPEREUTECTIC 4.280 DOME 13.7 12.8 11.9 1-92254-1 1-92254 1-92254BE
460 9-10454 2-ICR6135-7/16 FORGED 4.280 DOME 13.7 12.8 11.9 1-92256-1 1-92256 1-92256BE
460 9-10454 2-ICR6135-7/16 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 DOME 13.7 12.8 11.9 1-92258-1 1-92258 1-92258BE
460 9-10454 2-ICR6385-7/16 FORGED 4.280 FLAT 8.9 8.4 8.2 1-92260-1 1-92260 1-92260BE
460 9-10454 2-ICR6385-7/16 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 FLAT 8.9 8.4 8.2 1-92262-1 1-92262 1-92262BE
460 9-10454 2-ICR6385-7/16 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 DOME 14.0 12.7 11.7 1-92264-1 1-92264 1-92264BE
CHEVY 454 BIG-BLOCK 1-PC REAR SEAL 454 MAIN, SERIES 9000 CAST CRANKS, I-BEAM RODS WITH 7/16" CAP SCREWS
CI Crank Rod Piston Boresize Type 58cc 64cc 70cc Inclcrp Inclcrprb Compl
460 9-10454L 2-ICR6135-7/16 FORGED 4.280 FLAT 8.9 8.4 8.2 1-92400-1 1-92400 1-92400BE
460 9-10454L 2-ICR6135-7/16 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 FLAT 8.9 8.4 8.2 1-92402-1 1-92402 1-92402BE
460 9-10454L 2-ICR6135-7/16 FORGED 4.280 DOME 13.7 12.8 11.9 1-92404-1 1-92404 1-92404BE
460 9-10454L 2-ICR6135-7/16 FORGED 4.280 DOME 13.7 12.8 11.9 1-92406-1 1-92406 1-92406BE
460 9-10454L 2-ICR6135-7/16 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 DOME 13.7 12.8 11.9 1-92408-1 1-92408 1-92408BE
460 9-10454L 2-ICR6385-7/16 FORGED 4.280 FLAT 8.9 8.4 8.2 1-92410-1 1-92410 1-92410BE
460 9-10454L 2-ICR6385-7/16 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 FLAT 8.9 8.4 8.2 1-92412-1 1-92412 1-92412BE
460 9-10454L 2-ICR6385-7/16 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 DOME 14.0 12.7 11.7 1-92414-1 1-92414 1-92414BE
CHEVY 454 BIG-BLOCK 2-PC REAR SEAL 454 MAIN, SERIES 9000 CAST CRANKS, I-BEAM RODS WITH 7/16" CAP SCREWS
CI Crank Rod Piston Boresize Type 58cc 64cc 70cc Inclcrp Inclcrprb Compl
489 9-454-4250-6135 2-ICR6135-7/16 FORGED 4.280 FLAT 9.4 9.0 8.6 1-91350-1 1-91350 1-91350BE
489 9-454-4250-6135 2-ICR6135-7/16 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 FLAT 9.4 9.0 8.6 1-91360-1 1-91360 1-91360BE
489 9-454-4250-6135 2-ICR6135-7/16 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 DOME 10.5 10.0 9.5 1-91460-1 1-91460 1-91460BE
489 9-454-4250-6385 2-ICR6385-7/16 FORGED 4.280 FLAT 9.4 9.0 8.6 1-91505-1 1-91505 1-91505BI
489 9-454-4250-6385 2-ICR6385-7/16 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 FLAT 9.4 9.0 8.6 1-91510-1 1-91510 1-91510BI
489 9-454-4250-6385 2-ICR6385-7/16 FORGED 4.280 DOME 10.7 10.2 9.7 1-91605-1 1-91605 1-91605BI
489 9-454-4250-6385 2-ICR6385-7/16 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 DOME 10.7 10.2 9.7 1-91610-1 1-91610 1-91610BI

CHEVY 454 BIG-BLOCK 1-PC REAR SEAL 454 MAIN, SERIES 9000 CAST CRANKS, I-BEAM RODS WITH 7/16" CAP SCREWS
CI Crank Rod Piston Boresize Type 58cc 64cc 70cc Inclcrp Inclcrprb Compl
489 9-454-4250-6135-L 2-ICR6135-7/16 FORGED 4.280 FLAT 9.4 9.0 8.6 1-91650-1 1-91650 1-91650BE
489 9-454-4250-6135-L 2-ICR6135-7/16 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 FLAT 9.4 9.0 8.6 1-91655-1 1-91655 1-91655BE
489 9-454-4250-6135-L 2-ICR6135-7/16 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 DOME 10.5 10.0 9.5 1-91710-1 1-91710 1-91710BE
489 9-454-4250-6135-L 2-ICR6385-7/16 FORGED 4.280 FLAT 8.7 8.4 8.0 1-91755-1 1-91755 1-91755BE
489 9-454-4250-6135-L 2-ICR6385-7/16 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 FLAT 9.4 9.0 8.6 1-91760-1 1-91760 1-91760BE
489 9-454-4250-6135-L 2-ICR6385-7/16 FORGED 4.280 DOME 10.5 10.0 9.5 1-91805-1 1-91805 1-91805BE
489 9-454-4250-6135-L 2-ICR6385-7/16 PREMIUM FORGED 4.280 DOME 10.7 10.2 9.7 1-91810-1 1-91810 1-91810BE
540 9-454-4250-6135-L 2-ICR6385-7/16 PREMIUM FORGED 4.500 FLAT 10.2 9.8 9.4 1-91900-1 1-91900 1-91900BE
540 9-454-4250-6135-L 2-ICR6385-7/16 PREMIUM FORGED 4.030 DOME 15.2 13.7 12.5 1-91905-1 1-91905 1-91905BE
540 9-454-4250-6135-L 2-ICR6385-7/16 PREMIUM FORGED 4.500 DISH 9.8 9.4 9.0 1-91910-1 1-91910 1-91910BE


here is a few other builds, and related, linked info.
info you should read as it provides a good bit of very useful info as to your engine potential

just keep in mind bragging rights on impressive peak horse power might sound good, but having a dependable low maintenance combo that runs decent, and won,t require constant and expensive maintenance and parts replacement, designed to run in the 2500rpm-5000rpm range on the street is FAR more important, on any street driven cars engine.
and if set up in the correct car with decent tires and suspension easily get the car into the low 11 second to mid 10 second range (mostly dependent on weight and traction
.


http://maliburacing.com/patrick_budd_article.htm

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=5123

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=5530

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/eng ... ewall.html

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0 ... ewall.html

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/tech/ ... ewall.html

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=1420

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3153

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=189

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=916

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=1433

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=1432&p=3182#p3182

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=170
 
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