Beehive Springs

[stroker87]

Well I'm going to be swapping cams in the next few weeks and have bin talking to Mr. GrumpyVette (who really isnt grumpy )

He gave me some links to read and in one of them it mentioned the Beehive springs, my heads are setup for 550 lift and the cam I'm leaning has 550 lift so I might swap my springs out for some extra head room not to bind up any thing

Are beehive springs for every one? would I gain any thing by installing them?

This is not a flat out track only truck but it does see the track a good amount, but also see's the street alot too so are they good for the street?

This is a 383 stroker, hydrualic roller, 1.5 RR

 

[grumpyvette]

its foolish to spend cash unless your expenditure gives you positive results, CORRECTLY SELECTED AND INSTALLED,
beehive springs generally add several hundred rpm to your power band, but spending cash to correct problems you don,t have is wasted effort, if the current springs control the valve train well, its an unnecessary extra expense to swap springs,
I suggest trying what you currently have for valve springs if the clearances and load rates match the new cam, you've selected ,before spending the time and effort to swap, to new springs,IF and only IF you run into valve control, clearance or load rate issues will swapping to new springs be necessary, now that's not saying they are or are not superior under some conditions, but verifying your needs before spending over $100 you may not need to spend seems like the smart route..
keep in mind beehive springs will generally remove weight/mass from the valve train as your removing dual springs and replacing them with a single spring and a much smaller and lighter spring retainer, thus changing the inertial loads and valve train harmonics, use of a Single valve spring generates significantly less heat as compared to a dual spring valve train with a damper. Dual springs with a damper will always generate more heat and require a higher spring load rate to to over-come the friction the springs and damper produce , which can easily require an additional 10% higher spring load rates , just to compensate for increased mass and frictional losses. the beehive spring being smaller in diameter requires a smaller and lighter weight retainer,again reducing inertia loads on the valve train. while beehive springs have limitations in the applications they can be used in they also have distinct advantages in many applications, and frequently allow higher rpms with lower load rates thus reducing heat and wear

if you run into clearance issues , during the assembly checking and cam installation, process,getting the correct load rate beehive springs, and smaller matching diam, spring retainers (TITANIUM RETAINERS ARE NICE , DUE TO LIGHTER WEIGHT,BUT EXPENSIVE, IF YOU SHOP AROUND YOU'LL FIND STEEL RETAINERS THAT STILL SAVE SOME WEIGHT) And will most likely be a good idea, but if your not running into problems Id keep the current valve train components

reading thru the sub linked info will give your hundreds of times more info that just glancing thru this post


reading thru the links below is well worth the time and effort

Beehive valve springs have been known in the industry as having a lower mass at the retainer end thus allowing for better valve control. This is only partially the reason for the better valve control. Beehive valve springs are unique when it comes to coil spacing, rate control, and also using a MA wire cross section. Beehive springs benefit from utilizing ovate shaped wire. This wire more effectively distributes the stress over the entire wire area allowing for more complexity within the spring improving the fatigue life of the spring

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=697&p=968#p968

http://www.corvettefever.com/roadtests/ ... index.html

http://www.lunatipower.com/News.aspx?id=9

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=2768&p=7190#p7190

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181&p=2342&hilit=+beehive#p2342

http://www.ovaltracking.com/tech/2006/i ... ive-3.html

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/vo ... index.html

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2007 ... /index.php

http://www.performanceproductreview.com ... eehive.pdf

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/tech/ ... index.html

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/hrdp-1011-what-you-need-to-know-about-valvesprings/


viewtopic.php?f=52&t=282


viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181

 

[stroker87]

Grumpy, I was just thinking ahead for "if" I have to change out my currant springs "or" it would give me a decent amount of HP

The Et's i'm looking for is not going to be easy with this heavy truck and if A few hundred here or there while the engine is apart will get me there I'm all for it, I'm not looking to get in to changing heads or the EFI setup

I have a "few" bucks I can spend for all this since I need to replace the cam I want to put it in the right parts and not just waist it on a upgrade that will really not give me any thing out of it, I guess if it will give me a BANG for the buck I have no problem with it since this truck hits scales at 4200lbs and I need the HP & Tq to move it

 

[grumpyvette]

AS LONG AS the valve train is under control at the max rpm your engine spins, the LOWER the valve spring load rates the LOWER the friction losses tend to be and the LESS heat is generated, so the oil film tends to work better at lubricating the components,so in THEORY the beehive springs, with thier smaller and lighter valve spring retainers , and single spring design vs the multi spring standard springs with the dampers to control harmonics, will allow the engine to produce better horsepower because less power is wasted in overcoming friction and producing heat.
due to the fact that the BEEHIVE spring design is less effected by harmonics so it tends to maintain control without the use of dual or tripple valve springs and dampers all of which generate heat.
most people fail to realize that about 35%-40% of all engine heat generated is due to friction, (mostly valve train and bearing related) not due to combustion and exhaust heat from the fuel burned, which is the other 65%-60%.
if you don,t have constant oil flow to the rockers and valve springs they very quickly over heat and start to gaul or wear rapidly. springs can very quickly loose tension and load consistency.
there are guys that try to restrict oil flow to the valve train to reduce crank windage looses, the correct approach is directing and controlling the oil flow returning to the sump thru use of a crank scrapper and windage screen and possibly redirecting oil to only the front and rear of the block on its return trip to the sump, but restricting oil to the valve train generally causes far more problems than the minor windage loss in hp will ever produce.
read these links

http://www.webcamshafts.com/pages/cam_glossary.html

http://www.strokerengine.com/HeadTech.html

http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles ... index.html

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0 ... index.html

self aligning rockers have ridges to prevent the rocker from moving off the valve stem

http://www.airflowresearch.com/articles ... 7/A-P4.htm

BEEHIVE SPRINGS GIVE A GOOD DEAL MORE ROCKER TO RETAINER CLEARANCE

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181

 

[stroker87]

I know you can't give me a hard number but are they for the guys with the 200k race car looking for every drop of HP or can i see a benift from them? What I mean is are we talking just a few HP or in the 10, 15 to 20HP range? This engine only really sees around 6000 rpms

I could see doing the swap if it was in the 15+ HP gain being it would lower friction and heat too

 

[grumpyvette]

each application will be different so there's no way to know without testing on THAT engine, the BEEHIVE springs if carefully selected and installed generally work great in many applications but they do have rpm limits and load rate limits so they are not available for some applications, I rarely see them used in engines that are designed for over 7000rpm.
on the other hand I frequently see engines with dual springs getting into valve control issues in the 5700rpm-6100rpm range that swapping to the beehive valve springs totally cures, its not uncommon to extent the useful power band on a big block Chevy for example at least 400-500rpm

READ RELATED INFO
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=6198

http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/t ... index.html

http://www.kelford.co.nz/files/Kelford_ ... g_File.pdf