filmjays 454 sbc link

B

bob

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http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... index.html


the only problems I see it the need to buy that aftermarket block or short block assembly and the limited head gasket seal area between the cylinders.
when you look into the cost of the components, and the resulting 600hp, it just seems to me that you could build a big block 540 stroker for a very similar total cost and make even more hp for your money.

http://www.worldcastings.com/prods_pages/101011.htm

ID bet the OHIO CRANK, 620 displacement BBC is competatively priced

http://www.ohiocrank.com/enginespage1.html

or if you really want that 454 sbc, the OHIO CRANK, version at $7k is cheaper than most guys can build one
 
Hey Bob, thanks! :)

Yeah, the fact that it's bored to within an inch of its' life has turned me off.

And now that I know a BBC will fit comfortably in a Z, I'm definitely looking more in that direction. Even just a mild to moderate big block would still be a great base for the inevitable time when even 500hp isn't enough anymore. :D

I had spec'd out a 600hp 383 from another Hot Rod article. But with the induction I'm wanting to use, it would bring the total well over my target budget.
So now, I'm gonna see how well I can utilize the Dart Big-M 400ci, 4.500 bore, splayed-bolt block. The Dart BBC block itself is about $700 cheaper than the World Motown block I chose for that 600 horse 383....and TONS more street friendly potential.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Dart/301/31273444/10002/-1

Though I think I'm just gonna have to bit the bullet and deal with a tad less than what I want, just for sake of the project. I'm to the point now that I just want to have something decent, that runs, and can be built up later. The EFI I'm really wanting to use is in the $5-$6K neighborhood, and that's taking a HUGE bite out of the project budget.

If I'd be more willing to compromise that expensive EFI 'til later, I can have tons more motor within the price range I've set. I'd still like to stay EFI overall, but there are far cheaper options I've overlooked because I really want a particular style.

I like that Ohio Crank 620...but I'd like something that's pump gas capable. I don't want to HAVE to be mixing up stuff to go for a drive. :p
I do like their 550 though.

I also like some of the Nelson motors...http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/new_engines.htm

But, MAN they're high! I wonder if one could be similarly duplicated for less....
 
Wow. That's a good deal. ...and you know how much I like 454's. :)

Kinda kills the whole DIY thing though. :p Plus I'm not a huge fan of the cast components they're using at that power level. ...and the Edelbrock heads...... :evil:

Here's what I've come up with so far...
Block- http://www.jegs.com/i/Dart/301/31273444/10002/-1 $2184

Forged Rotating Assembly- http://www.jegs.com/i/Scat/942/1-42370BI/10002/-1# - $1859 -unless someone can suggest something better. :)

Heads - http://www.jegs.com/i/AFR/033/201080368508/10002/-1# - $3469/pair

Rocker kit - http://www.jegs.com/i/Jesel/549/KSS-187070/10002/-1 - $927

Pushrods - Would really need to be measured first, but want to go with one piece Chromo Comp rods. - allow $260

Lifters - http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp+Cams/249/866-16/10002/-1 -$490

Cam - http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CRN-168601&autoview=sku -$461.
This could be WAY off my mark of drivability. I'd like to keep the max power out of the lower range for street driving, but have it there above 3500. I'd like to add a 100-150 shot of NO2 LATER, but this is a street car first and foremost. I will upgrade to EFI later, but for the sake of getting it done, I'll stick with a single carb motor for now. Ah, compromises. :p

Intake - http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/2927K/10002/-1 - $324
I hate Edelbrock, but this is the intake suggested by AFR...so there it is...I'd still polish and port match it like I love it though. :D

Carb - http://www.jegs.com/i/Holley/510/0-4781SK1/10002/-1 - $638 - Kit w/ braided line and gauge. At least it's not Edelbrock......

Okay....so there it is. I know I haven't listed a lot of the little stuff. Gaskets, seals, fasteners, valve covers, distributor, wires, etc...

But, this list so far brings me to $10,612. Just over the budget, but within acceptable limits. I can tack on another $1000 for the things I haven't listed..Heck, I don't even know that everything I've chosen will play nice together....but that's all part of the learning process. :D And if I lucked out and it does all play nice, I have no idea what kind of power it would make. As far as I know, I might have just spec'd out a nice riding mower engine....or a really expensive hand grenade! hahaha!

Plus, I'm sure I could just buy a crate motor and be done with it. But what fun is that?? Well, that and I can buy the parts a little at a time. Whereas, I'd be hard pressed to plop down $10-$12K for a crate motor.

So what do you guys think? Where did I go wrong? or right? What would you change? add? Remember...I'm learning still. :)

Thanks,
 
the listed combo above will be a decent combo,but heres some things to think about.....IF YOUR GOING TO SPEND THAT MUCH MONEY ON THE PROJECT YOU MAY AS WELL GO TOTALLY NUTS.......build a dream combo with almost unlimited hp/tq......yeah, crazy, and youll need a full roll cage evetually......
but if the 600hp crate engine is not enought.......and
if you stick with the 540 DISPLACEMENT BIG BLOCK, with that
4.5" bore x 4.25" stroke=540 displacement youve listed the parts for...well, just, keep in mind its very little extra work to install a 4.375" or 4.5" stroker crank and boost displacement at this point, example
4.5" bore and 4.5" stroke will provide a 572 displacement, and DISPLACEMENT INCREASEs are usually a very relieable way to increase hp

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... N-16510-16

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... &N=700+115

these are BOTH much better/more durable lifters

and on as 540 BBC that will evenually use nitrous and EFI

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show ... vl=2&prt=5


this will probably be a better cam, (wider LCA, and more durration, both should help results)
but youll want to have a bit more compression in the rotating assembly, probably 10.5:1, as youll bleed off cylinder pressure at low rpms


both these companys have sales at this time

http://www.ohiocrank.com/chevbb_rotate.html

http://www.dougherbert.com/

Id at least discuss a 4.5" stroker kit with a 10.5:1-11:1 cpr with that crane cam with the suppliers below, remember the extra displacement negates alot of the effects of the larger cam, making it act much milder.
and youll be over the 800hp level with a decent nitrous system on a 572 big block.

it costs nothing to get advice from several sources at this point, but increased displacement if the cost is almost identical is almost a total no-brainer in my opinion, since youve got a block designed to handle the stroke clearance and stress levels and your cost will be very similar or identical , (Id build a 572) talk to CRANE CAMS,OHIO CRANK ETC>

but ID point out that i would think seriously about just asking OHIO CRANK to build you a 10.7:1 cpr version of that basic engine combo versus building it your self, theres alot of machine work costs and little bits of knowledge involved best left to the pros rather than to be stumbled into as a first timer , big block assembler and when your spending that kind of cash youll be smarter to have them do it!
IVE got the skills experiance and tools and ID strongly suggest having them build it for my own use as I know from experiance that the costs will be lower and the quality will be decent

YEAH! ID probably take it all apart and check everything...but thats just me, IM sure it would be fine
 
Yeah, I've been awake all night thinking about it all. :p Sick, I know. But, I couldn't sleep.

I came up with pretty much the same thing you just stated. If I'm at the point of spending this much $$$, then I might as well go whole hog.

And right before I started spec'ing out a 1000hp monster, I realized I'm totally insane and getting WAY off track.
Hence my post down in the Lounge. I've got so caught up and excited about building a nice engine, that I was setting myself up to get in way over my head.
I remember reading a thread not too long ago about "when is enough, enough?"
I'm not trying to set the streets on fire...I'll save that for another project later on down the road when I've got more experience under my belt.
And I really don't think this is the project to be building a 10 second car.

This project needs to retain some level of class and not go all balls to the wall, hair on fire, horsepower kickassedness.

You've posted a TON of great info in here. I know of nowhere else I can go and just get specs and part numbers to put together a really nice motor on my own time.

I think I can just pick any one of the combos you've listed already and would be perfectly happy.

...and I think my hp dreams are just a little too ambitious for my skills right now. I've realized that I could easily have a nice 400hp motor, be able to get that EFI I've got my eye on, and STILL be under budget. And that's a GREAT thing.

I will hand it to you in creating this forum. It's got all the right info. The nice motor builds...AND the, for lack of a better word, wisdom, to keep the eye on the big picture. No...I think wisdom about sums it up. :D

Thanks,
 
Oh...and just out of curiosity...what kind of power you think that combo I put together would be making? :)
 
just for giggles

my softwares wild guess places your 540 at 670ft lbs and 612 hp
vs
my softwares wild guess places my 572 at 720ft lbs and 660 hp BEFORE the nitrous, and 1100ft lbs/800hp plus with a 250 nitrous plate
but with a much broader tq curve, even off nitrous (which the combos designed for)


both combos should be killer in a datsun (Z) under 3000lbs
 
grumpyvette said:
just for giggles

my softwares wild guess places your 540 at 670ft lbs and 612 hp
vs
my softwares wild guess places my 572 at 720ft lbs and 660 hp BEFORE the nitrous, and 1100ft lbs/800hp plus with a 250 nitrous plate
but with a much broader tq curve, even off nitrous (which the combos designed for)


both combos should be killer in a datsun (Z) under 3000lbs
Click to expand...

WOW! :shock: I think I did pretty good for not knowing wth I'm really doing. :) Though that 572 is QUITE a bit nicer. That's right at the Copperhead 572 that we had in the Trucks shop. But that was prepped by Rousch...and would've been right at $20K. Actually, if I remember correctly...the Copperhead only had 620hp and 700 ft/lbs before the juice. That motor was what GM ended up spec'ing the retail "Street" version as...it was serial #00001 of the 572's. #00002 went in a 72 Pro Street Nova. Also by Rousch. And that one ended up being the GM spec for the race 572. ....a little 572 insider history. :D

Though, I think I'm gonna be toning my requirements down 100hp or so...
I think I'd kill myself with something like that in a Z. :twisted:

Thanks for all your help. I'm sure it won't be the last I need. But I appreciate the efforts. I owe ya.

-Jay

oh...and DROOOOOOL!!!!
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?Pa ... dID=246819
 
Okay...I'll keep my rantings in here for now....

So, I'm a sucker for ebay. Yeah, I DO know that a lot of people dump their junk on there. But, if you know how to use ebay and how to recognize the shills, then it's all good.
I've never had any problems on ebay in the last 8 years or so...and I'm still at 100% feedback.

So anyway...in my quest for a "budget" big block (I use the term "budget" very loosely.), I've come across an auction for a lot of 38 BBC pistons in varying sizes.

It includes...
(16) CP 4.560 bore with a very small (approx. .035") dome, for tall deck (10.200") with 6.385 rod and 4.250 stroke.

(14) JE SRP 4.530 bore flat tops, for short deck (9.800") with 6.135 rod and 4.000 stroke.

(8) JE 4.530 bore inverted dome, for short deck (9.800") with 6.135 rod and 4.000 stroke.

There's no reserve on the auction, and if I play my cards right, I can probably get them all for less than $100 including shipping. What do you guys think? Surely they ALL can't be bad. I'd hope the dished pistons would be best since I'm hoping to snag a couple used Dodge/Cummins turbos to slap in there.

I'm trying to go as cheap as possible on everything since I've recently decided to forgo the expensive 280/GTO conversion and cut my teeth on one of those infamous low-buck rat rod style builds. :D
 
IF your sure what your getting theres some great deals to be had......theres also a risk!
but at that price its probably a decent gamble
 
grumpyvette said:
IF your sure what your getting theres some great deals to be had......theres also a risk!
but at that price its probably a decent gamble
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I asked for a used parts guide.

On used pistons, I'm not so sure of what to look for or ask about.

Ring lands? Skirts? ?????
 
clear detailed pictures of each part would be a huge help
and you are aware that a standard 454 block can,t be bored to 4.560 bore right?

btw look at the swap shop for a new area you requested to post links to deals
 
Here's a link to the auction...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... otohosting

Some of those pistons look pretty rough at first glance though.
IF I were to get them, I was hoping to use the 4.53 dished pistons.

And no...I wasn't aware that a stock block couldn't be bored to a 4.56.

See? That's why you're the man...and I always check in here first! :mrgreen:

I'm trying to do this build as cheaply as humanly possible....so if I f** something up, I'm not too worried about it. Whereas, I'd probably be pretty pi**ed off if I were to ruin a nice $10,000+ motor.
One thing is certain though...it's gotta be a BBC.
High performance isn't really a major goal for this one. Running and drivable is the main goal. I just want to go BBC to get the most power out of it I can without it being insanely built (no replacement for displacement, right? :) )...and the sound. There's not much as cool as a big block with open headers. I just want to build it and get it running. IF it makes gobs of power...cool. If not...that's okay too.
But, EVERYTHING is coming from a junkyard or ebay. I'm trying my best to not buy anything new...except maybe the gaskets and wiring harness ...I just have a phobia about old wiring. But I can pick up a brand new 11 circuit rod harness for $100.
But, the goal is to keep the entire project under $5000...or at least as close as I can get it. About the only frill I see me putting in it MIGHT be A/C. But with only 11 circuits, I'm sure I'll have to compromise something, somewhere.
 
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