pistol caliber carbines, useless or practical?

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member





The best defense against evil men,
are good men who are skilled at violence.


you would have a difficult time finding a pistol caliber carbine,

more dependable than a semi auto 9mm uzi clone!
submachine-gun-isolated-on-white-picture-id519802099


https://gunmagwarehouse.com/all-magazines/rifles

I've owned a few, and while they can be fun to play with, they generally do have the option to hold more cartridge capacity,
than a similar caliber typical handgun, and generally being more easily aimed and fired, the MARLIN 44 mag lever action carbine is one pistol caliber carbine I've found very useful
ruger-reintroduces.jpg

and having less penetration than a typical rifle, inside the home,

they may be a good option for home defense , especially by people who generally don't shoot a great deal.
I don't think they are truly practical, personally Id consider them more as expensive toys, other than in the home defense use.

SB-63-SMG-1.jpg

9mm-uzi-on-a-white-background-picture-id1301321009


vs a short barrel rifle UNLESS your dealing with a suppressor, short barrel rifles in carbine calibers ,
are far more practical, but there's obvious over lap, and storing larger volumes of ammo is easier.

or
you really feel having magazines that work in both your handgun or carbine
is a huge advantage.
or

IF you wanted a semi concealable carbine
( THAT usually requires folding stock and shorter barrel,)
than a typical rifle, that significantly increases your longer range accuracy,

and still accepts your handgun magazines.
yeah there are cartridges & calibers like 30 carbine, 5.7/28 ,10mm, 10mm mag, 44 mag, even 41 mag that exist in carbine form
that
approach some rifle power levels, and rifle calibers that blur the line
 
Last edited:





I asked several of my friends , asking them, what weapon they prefer for use if they could grab anything they own,
or would like to own,
in the following circumstances,

its a situation where they are at home, and see a couple armed guys,
WHO ARE obviously intent on violence, rapidly running up to their home, they have

maybe 5-7 seconds, what do they grab?, what do they do?
as they KICK in your front door?

it seems theres a strong trend I did not expect, most of the older guys seemed to want a 12 ga riot gun, semi auto or pump guns,

1301_listing0011.png

with a 7-8 shell capacity, many own that type of gun, and most of the guys have a sling with extra shells on the gun in a closet,
most of the younger guys wanted a handgun with a 15-17 cartridge magazine and an AR15 or AK carbine with a 30 round mag,
M16A1.jpg

I was rather surprised that not a single person suggested a pistol caliber carbine
but keep in mind most of the guys I know are from rural areas, most guys have families ,
and are very familiar with weapon handling,

and live on 5-20 acre lots. this might be a big factor in the choices made.
I can see where a 9mm carbine has advantages in that,
in theory you are less likely to shoot through an attacker,

and have bullets pass through walls behind him,
like a 12 ga with slugs might, or FMJ rounds from an AK.

whats your thought's?

submachine-gun-isolated-on-white-picture-id519802099


something like an UZI or AR/AK may look cool but ID rather have a semi auto 12 ga in the listed confrontation.
 
Last edited:

yeah a 10mm personal defense weapon (carbine) that uses GLOCK 10mm mags and a GLOCK 10mm pistol makes sense,
in that it has considerably more power than a 9mm carbine
but most people will suggest if you want a carbine, just stick to a cartridge like 223, 6.8 SPC . 300 black-out, 7.62/39 etc.

CMMG Banshee Mk10

CMMG Banshee Mk10


Released in 2019, the CMMG Banshee Mk10 is the most AR-like of the 10mm PCCs on this list. Its 8-inch barrel makes it legally classified as a pistol, meaning it could soon be affected by ATF rule changes, but in the meantime, it is still fully legal to mount a pistol brace to one of these to make a very handy little carbine. A CMMG RipBrace is included with each Banshee as well.

While the Banshee Mk10 is the most AR-like on this list, it is still quite different from standard AR-15s and even standard pistol-caliber ARs. The former typically use a type of direct-impingement system, and the latter are usually direct-blowback, but CMMG opted for a different type of action that makes their PCCs stand out above the competition. Called Radial Delayed Blowback, CMMG originally developed the system for their .45 ACP PCCs. It’s now been adapted for 10mm, and the result is a match made in heaven. Even direct-blowback PCCs chambered for 9mm can have a harsh recoil impulse, and their bolts are usually fat and heavy. CMMG’s RDB system not only allows the bolt (and subsequently the whole gun) to be lighter, but also reduces the felt recoil.

The Mk10 also thankfully utilizes Glock-pattern magazines rather than a proprietary design, so it should be relatively cheap and painless to stack them deep for this gun compared to some other PCCs. Another extremely desirable feature not found on most PCCs is the Banshee’s last-round hold-open system, allowing for magazine changes to be just as fast as on a standard AR-15. As a bonus, the Banshee is available in several different Cerakote color finishes as well.
MSRP: $1,749.95 // cmmg.com

I look at that price and go OUCH!!!



 
Last edited:




submachine-gun-isolated-on-white-picture-id519802099

I've owned, played with and used a bunch of pistol cartridge semi auto carbines, if you're looking for a very dependable home defensive weapon option, or if you're looking for something that looks military and your simply knocking cans around in the local dump or rock quarry,
or punching paper at 25-50 yards at the local range,
I think the UZI clones ,are the best value, as 9mm ammos usually reasonably priced,
and spare UZI mags, are reasonably well made fairly cheap and available,
and they ( uzi carbines like pictured above, and their mags seldom if ever break parts or fail to function,)
that's not true of most other carbines.
if your hunting, get a marlin 357 mag or 44 mag lever action
 
Last edited:
I can't see how you could call any caliber useless, maybe not as good across the whole scale as some others but there is always a tool for the job some tools get used more than others I have a 44 Mag carbine that is a lot more useful than my 45 Colt in basically the same gun
 
Id agree that my marlin 44 mag is far more versatile & useful than a 9mm and a 45 acp carbine I've owned in the past
but the 44 mag is used for hunting, the other carbines were semi auto clones of military sub guns,
which might look neat but are not in my opinion all that useful, for much unless your prime usage is for close room to room,
home defense that might be where a larger capacity semi auto pistol caliber carbine with a 10" barrel might excel
 
Last edited:
Certainly. They are more accurate than pistols of the same caliber, as they have longer barrels, typically a longer sight radius if using irons, and a stock for stabilization. Sometimes they have greater magazine capacity as well.

Further, if you can get a carbine that takes the same magazine as your pistol, that cross-compatibility can be useful as you need carry only one kind of magazine.

They also tend to be smaller and ligher than intermediate carbines like M4s, and certainly less than rifle carbines like the M1A Scout. So if you need more than a pistol but less than a rifle or other kind of carbine, pistol carbines are an excellent choice.

And while bigger and heavier, typically, than submachineguns, they tend to have better range and accuracy.

Pistol carbines are certainly useful.
 
1.jpg


16401.jpg


heres something that might peak some peoples interest
a ruger 20 shot capacity handgun with a 10" barrel,
in caliber 5.7/28 that uses the ruger handgun magazines,
green dot ,lazer optics

that might be a decent personal defensive use option
personally I think adding a folding shoulder stock
and 30 cartridge mags, would improve it as ,
a personal defense weapon about 500%,

71CMkpqHFXL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BTJGR1...=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWxfdGhlbWF0aWM&th=1



but of course the feds would have a shit hemorrhage over that idea
as you potentially about double the lethality and range over a typical 9mm carbine

xmKToNi.png
 
Last edited:

the atf may lose the ability to regulate and tax short barrel rifles and pistol braces
due to constant over reach and constant pushing the rule limits
 


I'm sure you have to be a "GUN GUY" to get the humor,
m
but this is funny
 
338 Spectre

Lilgun IMR4227 AA1680 IMR4198
180g BT OAL 2.15 15g 1680fps 17.5g 1600fps 19g 1560fps
200gHor 14g 1600fps 18g 1550fps 19g 1500fps
225gHor 13g 1360fps 15g 1300fps 17g 1300fps 13gsubsonic
300gSHPBTMK OAL 2.270 9g subsonic 9.5g subsonic 10g subsonic

.338 Spectre All loads for Sierra 300 SMK seated to 2.31
POWDER GRAIN fill (%) vel (fps) Pmax (psi)
SF-033 fl 15.7253 110.0000 1209.8833 37249.3673
Norma 200 14.8072 106.0000 1191.5980 37500.0725
Nitrochemie A/S 0300 14.9191 104.0000 1188.8549 37500.0725
Alliant Reloder-10x 14.7069 105.0000 1187.4710 37500.0725
ADI AR 2207 13.6127 101.0000 1186.5617 37500.0725
Alliant Reloder- 7 13.2004 96.0000 1171.1048 37500.0725
Vihtavuori N120 13.5799 103.0000 1169.9223 37500.0725
Ramshot X-Terminator 15.5541 107.0000 1164.1276 37500.0725
SNPE Vectan SP 10 15.8336 106.0000 1160.0624 37500.0725
Lovex D073 16.0545 109.0000 1159.5380 37500.0725
PB Clermont PCL 508 15.8553 106.0000 1159.4201 37500.0725
Hodgdon H322 15.1771 108.0000 1152.1367 37500.0725
ADI AR 2219 15.1771 105.0000 1152.1367 37500.0725
Vihtavuori N130 14.6739 108.0000 1152.0124 37500.0725
IMR 4198 13.2671 103.0000 1146.4895 37500.0725
Hodgdon H335 16.4310 108.0000 1144.1138 37500.0725
Hodgdon H4227 11.8880 95.0000 1139.3656 37500.0725
Accurate No.2230 16.3945 110.0000 1139.0381 37000.6668
Alliant Reloder-12 15.6918 110.0000 1129.8651 36262.6052
Accurate No.1680 13.4545 90.0000 1129.8276 37500.0725
ADI AR 2210 15.1769 105.0000 1129.0726 37500.0725
Accurate 2200 14.3909 98.0000 1126.9798 37500.0725
IMR 4227 11.9973 95.0000 1125.6502 37500.0725
ADI BM2 15.2348 102.0000 1124.6741 37500.0725
Hodgdon Benchmark 15.2234 110.0000 1121.3465 37264.4574
Winchester 748 16.5618 110.0000 1120.8245 36047.8387
Ramshot TAC 16.1435 110.0000 1114.2720 35137.6206
Somchem S321 16.3945 110.0000 1110.7778 34086.2150
Hodgdon H4198 13.2205 102.0000 1109.0717 37500.0725
PB Clermont PCL 507 16.0599 110.0000 1104.4439 34324.7724
Hodgdon BL-C2 16.7290 110.0000 1103.4826 33614.5811
Vihtavuori N133 14.7216 110.0000 1101.8043 34208.5716
Somchem S265 11.6267 91.0000 1101.5230 37500.0725
Rottweil R901 14.9725 110.0000 1100.8536 31516.4414
Accurate No.2460 16.2272 110.0000 1095.3435 31832.5725
ADI AR 2206H 15.3907 110.0000 1089.1029 36674.1449
Accurate XMR 2015 14.3870 110.0000 1086.7708 29604.0464
ADI AR 2206 15.2234 110.0000 1078.1347 35017.6254
Lovex S060 15.0561 110.0000 1076.2912 33831.1799
Hodgdon H4895 15.2234 110.0000 1076.1347 35425.7928
Accurate No.2520 16.3945 110.0000 1069.6101 29911.6863
Hodgdon VARGET 15.4744 110.0000 1064.1723 32911.4338
Somchem S335 15.0561 110.0000 1060.8009 29856.8945
Norma 202 15.1398 110.0000 1058.7476 29095.6724
IMR 3031 14.7216 110.0000 1052.3384 28198.3402
SNPE Vectan SP 9 15.8926 110.0000 1049.8522 30843.0265
Norma 201 15.1398 110.0000 1044.1933 28169.2068
Vihtavuori N540 16.0599 110.0000 1043.8302 30852.2622
Somchem S341 16.3945 110.0000 1041.5608 31634.1595
ADI AR 2208 15.4744 110.0000 1039.8799 31296.1043
Rottweil R902 15.1398 110.0000 1037.5083 27782.2093
PB Clermont PCL 516 16.3945 110.0000 1032.5479 31030.1975
IMR 4320 15.6417 110.0000 1031.4350 31333.2445
IMR 4895 15.0561 110.0000 1029.6232 30338.0296
Vihtavuori N140 15.0896 110.0000 1027.5132 28158.2028
IMR 4064 15.0561 110.0000 1017.0665 29106.5857
Raufoss RA11 15.3907 110.0000 1006.8119 26789.5486
Alliant Reloder-15 15.3907 110.0000 1006.8119 26789.5486
Norma 203B 15.3907 110.0000 1000.3833 26190.1154
Vihtavuori N135 14.7216 110.0000 1000.1104 25180.4014
Vihtavuori N150 15.2234 110.0000 996.0065 25582.6070
Accurate XMR 2495 14.7216 110.0000 989.4726 20912.0436
SNPE Vectan Sp 7 16.4781 110.0000 988.5276 27136.8824
Rottweil R907 16.0599 110.0000 986.2501 28310.9614
Hodgdon H414 16.5618 110.0000 971.4510 27912.2344
SNPE Vectan SP 11 15.8926 110.0000 967.1077 25665.1486
Accurate No.2700 16.2272 110.0000 948.1654 27339.1262
Ramshot BigGame 15.4744 110.0000 940.0182 23768.0071
Accurate XMR 4064 14.8888 110.0000 928.2914 18919.2537
Vihtavuori N550 16.0599 110.0000 927.0563 23076.7225
Winchester 760 16.2272 110.0000 917.6492 24126.4814
Norma 203 old 15.0561 110.0000 909.0269 20404.8064
Rottweil R903 15.0561 110.0000 907.6219 20446.2821
Ramshot Hunter 16.3945 110.0000 895.7681 22838.3200
Hodgdon H380 15.8926 110.0000 892.1423 22095.1555
IMR 4350 15.2234 110.0000 885.1074 21902.5179
Hodgdon H4350 15.5580 110.0000 865.0469 22228.9716
Norma 204 15.7253 110.0000 861.6721 21777.1375
ADI AR 2209 15.8089 110.0000 856.4171 22051.5068
Rottweil R904 15.3907 110.0000 848.4992 21021.6282
Raufoss RA4 15.3907 110.0000 840.8667 20384.3791
IMR 4831 15.3405 110.0000 817.6968 17890.7377
Accurate XMR 4350 15.3907 110.0000 816.1340 17736.1012
Somchem S365 15.3071 110.0000 815.1840 17949.5543
Alliant Reloder-19 15.2234 110.0000 812.6820 18426.8401
Vihtavuori N160 15.3740 110.0000 803.5972 18823.9383
Lovex S070 15.1398 110.0000 796.7553 16496.1073
ADI AR 2213 15.9762 110.0000 795.5199 19579.8713
Somchem S385 15.6417 110.0000 784.2010 16968.1013
Vihtavuori N560 16.0599 110.0000 774.3800 17569.5412
Hodgdon H4831 SC 15.8926 110.0000 765.5970 18213.1370
IMR 7828 SSC 15.8089 110.0000 765.3255 17980.9849
Winchester WXR 15.8089 110.0000 764.9255 16647.3018
Alliant Reloder-22 15.5580 110.0000 754.9781 16129.7504
Raufoss RA15 15.5580 110.0000 754.9781 16129.7504
Norma MRP 15.8926 110.0000 750.3815 16096.4370
Rottweil R905 15.3907 110.0000 748.8830 16189.2918
Vihtavuori N165 15.3907 110.0000 742.7452 16000.5318
IMR 7828 15.2234 110.0000 734.7010 16100.2539
Accurate MAGPRO 16.3108 110.0000 720.3080 15526.7348
Alliant Reloder-25 15.3071 110.0000 701.6910 14009.4377
ADI AP 2214 15.9762 110.0000 698.7178 15772.9581
Accurate XMR 3100 15.3907 110.0000 697.2759 13476.0937
Hodgdon H1000 15.8424 110.0000 690.0774 15293.6269
Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 16.4781 110.0000 679.6623 15087.5747
PB Clermont PCL 517 16.4279 110.0000 676.5860 14913.2929
Hodgdon Retumbo 15.4744 110.0000 662.7740 12771.9571
Norma MRP 2 15.3907 110.0000 651.3958 12299.1836
Vihtavuori N170 15.4744 110.0000 637.2204 11992.0586
Vihtavuori 24N41 16.3945 110.0000 619.6830 12749.5752
ADI AR 2218 16.3945 110.0000 596.3405 11967.0625
Hodgdon H870 16.0599 110.0000 582.3849 10590.9736
Hodgdon 50BMG 15.7253 110.0000 575.5736 10738.0510
NC A3502 ,test only 15.0561 110.0000 539.0099 9946.5623
PB Clermont PCL 513/520 15.7253 110.0000 535.5082 9218.9357
Accurate No.8700 16.0599 110.0000 535.2130 9696.6415
TLP A 502(RH) ,test only 15.0561 110.0000 523.8523 9198.8639
Vihtavuori 20N29 16.5618 110.0000 514.7003 9057.3864
V1734 7-multiperf ,test only 15.0561 110.0000 401.4451 6488.1833
I have only shot a few through my 338 so takes these for what they are worth and work up ect ect ect....


above some load data for the 338 spectra cartridge
I found posted elsewhere that is hard to find for a suppressed carbine
 
Last edited:





keep in mind most pistol caliber carbines are limited to well under 150 yards in effective range
many would be at best marginal for anything but small game
 
Last edited:
Back
Top