TRW L2209AF & L2210AF SB Chevy 302 piston specs

Loves302Chevy

Loves302Chevy

"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
I'm looking for the effective dome volume(s) for these pistons. Mine are .020" over.
They were L2210s that I had .193" machined off the .435" dome. That came directly
from TRW over 20 years ago - right off the prints. That was supposed to make the
2210 12.5:1 piston into the 2209 11:1 piston.

I thought it was about 11 cc for the 2209, but I just used Rick's DCR calculator and got
an SCR of 14.29, DCR of 11.89, and Cranking Pressure of 272. Something is wrong.
 
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Take a look on Summit Racing Mike.
Type in the TRW Number.
TRW Was taken over by Sealed Power around 2000-2001.
I know a few Vintage TRW Pontiac piston designs are made by Sealed Power yet.
 
Many Vintage TRW Racing pistons are Gone...At least for Pontiac from 20 years ago.
 
Ricks Calculator is accurate to a point.
Seems to work best with Street Performance engines.
I noticed huge discrepancies with Large Overlap Real long duration cams.
I compared to My Pontiac HO Racing Engine Calculators.
 
Its Best to test your Cranking Cylinder pressure .
Use a Good engine compression guage.
I have a Snap On. But any brand will work.
160-165 psi is 87 octane.
175-185 is 91 octane.
190-195 is 93 octane.
I got these numbers from old Vintage Hotrod articles 1999-2003 online.
I had to Dig Deep.

195-210 is really pushing it on 93 octane.
Must use every Trick...EFI Territory .
And likely unable to run full ignition advance 28-39 degrees BTDC.

My Olds 425 tested at 180-185 psi cranking pressure .
 
All online calculators are Algorithm programs .
What the Formula is for many is a Mystery .
Grumpy found one for Dynamic compression in the past for me.
 
87vette81big said:
Should be LF2210.
Click to expand...
No. I have the number correct. Stamped right in the piston. Actually some are overstamped -
they stamped the 10 over the 09. The Sealed Power / Speed Pro pistons are not
the same as the TRWs. But I will look.
Summit sucks - I'm tired of typing in house numbers.
And DAMN, I SEE you really DO have a photographic memory.
 
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Brand: Speed Pro
Manufacturer's Part Number: L2210AF30
Part Type: Pistons
Product Line: Speed-Pro Forged Pistons
Summit Racing Part Number: SLP-L2210AF30
Bore (in): 4.030 in.
Bore (mm): 102.362mm
Piston Style: Dome, with two valve reliefs
Piston Material: Forged aluminum
Compression Distance (in): 1.805 in.
Dome Height (in): 0.430 in.
Piston Head Volume (cc): -15.20cc
Wrist Pin Style: Press-fit or floating
Pin Diameter (in): 0.927 in.
Piston Ring Thickness: 1/16 in. x 1/16 in. x 1/8 in.
Quantity: Sold as a set of 8.
SLP-L2210AF_ml.jpg
So for the 12.5:1 piston, .060 over is 15.4cc, .030 over is 15.2cc, so I can assume 15.1cc for .020 over.
If about 4cc was removed from that dome, then I should have about 11cc.

The cam below is a Crower SOLID FT oval track cam.
Crower 00350.png

302 Cam Degree Calculator.png
302 DCR.png

What am I doing wrong Rick? Engine 3 (yellow)

Also, here are the ACTUAL results of my compression test.

2) 165# 4) 153# 6) 152# 8) 158#

1) 159# 3) 160# 5) 153# 7) 162#

From what Brian said above (160-165 psi is 87 octane), I can run this engine on 87 octane.
 
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They are just guidelines Mike.
Keep that in mind.
There is another factor not taken into account .
The VE or Volumetric Efficiency of the Engine.
And VE does vary per engine.
 
It's the approximate IVC that you are using, better to calculate when you
can. This changed the IVC from your 57° to 61° ABDC.

Love_IVC_Crower00350.PNG

You can find this calculator on the 2nd tab called "IVC Angle Calc - 2".
LoveDCRwCrower00350.PNG
 
HOLY CRAP! That's amazing - only 4 degrees made that much of a difference?
But those new numbers are almost exactly what I expected.

So the 61 is from the cam being 4 degrees advanced (57 + 4), correct?
 
ANYTIME YOU GET TOTALLY UNEXPECTED RESULTS,
IN A CALCULATION RETRY IT WITH SEVERAL DIFFERENT.
BUT SIMILAR FORMULAS OR CALCULATOR LINKS try this also
06CheckingPiston.jpg

07CheckingPiston.jpg


http://www.wallaceracing.com/dynamic-cr.php

http://www.pcengines.com.au/calculators/Calculate%20dynamic%20Comp%20Ratio.htm

http://cochise.uia.net/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html

http://www.steigerperformance.com/products/sp90005.html

https://www.uempistons.com/index.php?main_page=calculators&zenid=1e826335bfac0f356463eabed4958558

http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced Engine Tuning/Static vs Dynamic.html

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/cam-tech-c.htm


TRUE_piston3_ANI.gif

notice how the longer crank stroke effects the piston stroke distance in the bore, both at the lower and upper end of the cylinder
5.7" rod piston
https://www.uempistons.com/index.php?ma ... cts_id=149


6" rod piston
https://www.uempistons.com/index.php?ma ... cts_id=416
 
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Loves302Chevy said:
So the 61 is from the cam being 4 degrees advanced (57 + 4), correct?
Click to expand...
No..... you said in your post with the text description (at the bottom) "Straight Up",
that mean 0° advance. Maybe you meant to say "Dot-To-Dot". Look at the first
graphic in my post above and you will see where I put zero degrees in the calculator
for the "Advance/Retard" field.

Again that calculator is in the same file as the DCR calculator, it's on the 2nd tab at
the bottom. There shouldn't be any cam card that does not have the IVC (seat to seat
timing) or at least the info needed to calculate the IVC. I prefer not to estimate a value
that can be easily obtained.
 
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Grumpy said:
ANYTIME YOU GET TOTALLY UNEXPECTED RESULTS,
IN A CALCULATION RETRY IT WITH SEVERAL DIFFERENT.
BUT SIMILAR FORMULAS OR CALCULATOR LINKS
Click to expand...
I have a feeling that Rick's calculator is probably more complete and accurate than any others.
Rick is a perfectionist, but so am I. If anyone can find a flaw in his program, it is ME.
Just like with any other program, you have to know how to correctly use it.

Grumpy, only 4 degrees changed the expected numbers from TOTALLY OUT IN LEFT FIELD
to more of what I expected. I'm having a bit of a hard time believing this. Can this be attributed
to the short 3.00" stroke of this engine?
I know you don't agree with my cam selection, but do you think I should retard it?
I installed it as per the cam card, and I believe Crower made it that way to boost the torque
of this short stroke engine. Crower's description:
Crower #00350 SOLID Flat Tappet cam
Broad power band Short oval profile Heavy car
Advertised Duration 268/274 238/244 @.050
.497/.503 lift (1.5) .530/.537 (1.6) 107 LSA 57 degrees overlap
rpm range 2000-6000 in a 350/400 redline 7000
 
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Indycars said:
you said in your post with the text description (at the bottom) "Straight Up",
that mean 0° advance. Maybe you meant to say "Dot-To-Dot". Look at the first
graphic in my post above and you will see where I put zero degrees in the calculator
for the "Advance/Retard" field.
Click to expand...
Yes Rick. The camshaft is installed dot-to-dot, but has 4 degrees of advance ground into it
(107 lobe separation installed at 103 degrees). Please correct me if I'm not understanding this -
I really want to get it right. How do I correctly reflect this using your DCR calculator?
 
Indycars said:
index.php
Click to expand...
I think I see a potential problem Rick. By the cam card, LOBE SEPARATION is 107 - correct.
But shouldn't INTAKE CENTERLINE be entered as 103 and EXHAUST CENTERLINE be 111?
I'm going to play with your calculator now.
 
302 IVC Angle.png
OK Rick. With 4 degrees of ADVANCE entered, INTAKE CENTERLINE is now correct at 103,
and EXHAUST CENTERLINE is 111, as I expected. But that makes the IVC 57 again, which
agrees with the Wallace calculator, and the rest of the numbers do also.
Loves302Chevy said:
index.php
Click to expand...

Which brings me back to the CRAZY SCR, DCR, & Cranking Compression numbers.
 
Loves302Chevy said:
Grumpy, only 4 degrees changed the expected numbers from TOTALLY OUT IN LEFT FIELD
to more of what I expected. I'm having a bit of a hard time believing this. Can this be attributed
to the short 3.00" stroke of this engine?
Click to expand...
If we were talking about an IVC that was close to 0° BDC, then the effects
would be very small, but were talking about 61° ABDC. At that position in
the crank rotation the piston is moving alot for every degree of rotation and
therefore it's displacing a lot more volume then it does at BDC for every
degree rotation.
 
Loves302Chevy said:
OK Rick. With 4 degrees of ADVANCE entered, INTAKE CENTERLINE is now correct at 103,
and EXHAUST CENTERLINE is 111, as I expected. But that makes the IVC 57 again, which
agrees with the Wallace calculator, and the rest of the numbers do also.
Click to expand...
It is what it is!!!

To run that Crower 00350 camshaft on pump gas, you will have to retard the
timing to near zero. Or make changes elsewhere to adjust the compression
ratio. It's always a compromise!
 
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