400ci small block fuellie heads which cams should be used

Discussion in 'Engine Combos and Dynometer Database' started by Arjen, Apr 29, 2018.

  1. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

    once in a while

    btw I would NEVER reuse the 400 sbc 5.565 rods, they are at least 40 years old,
    have been through unknown millions of stress cycles,
    and are well known to be a rather weak design,
    that was originally designed for a lower to mid rpm torque engine,
    intended mostly for pick-up trucks and luxury cars with automatic transmissions.

    [​IMG]
    you can purchase 5.7" connecting rods that are
    easily over twice as strong as the O.E.M. connecting rods used in a stock 400 sbc
    for LESS,
    than it would cost to rebuild ,resize and add ARP rod bolts to the original rods


    below is only one of several dozen options if your building a performance SBC
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sca-25700716

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
  2. Loves302Chevy

    Loves302Chevy "One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."

    Grumpy is right (as always) Arjen. Step up to a 5.7" connecting rod and you will have many more choices available to you
    and better parts for less cost as a bonus. If you go the floating pin route, you can assemble them yourself also.
    Don't spend more $$$ to buy less.
     
    Arjen likes this.
  3. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    You want 5.700 rods if your going to Rev up the 400.

    6.0 rods fit. Only want to Use Diamond - Ross - JE pistons for them.
     
    Arjen likes this.
  4. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

    you can purchase 5.7" connecting rods that are
    easily over twice as strong as the O.E.M. connecting rods used in a stock 400 sbc
    for LESS,
    than it would cost to rebuild ,resize and add ARP rod bolts to the original rods


    below is only one of several dozen options if your building a performance SBC
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sca-25700716

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
    Arjen likes this.
  5. Arjen

    Arjen Active Member

    so after your fantastic input we have come up with the following parts :

    for the conrods:

    Brand:SCAT Engine Components

    Manufacturer's Part Number:2-ICR5700-7/16

    Part Type:Connecting Rods

    Product Line:Scat Pro Comp I-Beam Connecting Rods

    Summit Racing Part Number:SCA-25700716

    UPC:846091011040

    Connecting Rod Length Center to Center (in): 5.700 in.

    Connecting Rod Beam Style: I-beam

    Connecting Rod Material: Forged 4340 steel

    Connecting Rod Finish: Polished and shot-peened

    Wrist Pin Style: Floating

    Clearanced for Stroker: Yes

    Cap Retention Style: Cap screw

    Connecting Rod Bolt Brand: ARP

    Connecting Rod Bolt Diameter: 7/16 in.

    Connecting Rod Bolt Material: 8740 chromoly steel

    Fastener Yield Strength (psi): 200,000 psi

    Connecting Rod Bolt Head Style: 12-point

    Rod Journal Diameter (in): 2.100 in.

    Big End Bore Diameter (in): 2.2250 in.

    Pin End Bore Diameter: 0.927 in.

    Big End Width (in): 0.940 in.

    for the pistons:

    Brand:Speed Pro

    Manufacturer's Part Number:H615CP30

    Part Type:Pistons

    Product Line:Speed-Pro Hypereutectic Pistons

    Summit Racing Part Number:SLP-H615CP30

    UPC:614046686847

    Bore (in): 4.155 in.

    Bore (mm): 105.537mm

    Piston Style: Dish, with four valve reliefs

    Piston Material: Hypereutectic aluminum

    Compression Distance (in): 1.425 in.

    Piston Head Volume (cc): +12.50cc

    Wrist Pin Style: Press-fit or floating

    Wrist Pin Included: Yes

    Pin Diameter (in): 0.928 in.

    Piston Ring Thickness: 5/64 in. x 5/64 in. x 3/16 in.

    Piston Rings Included: No

    we are getting exited over here!!!
    and then you start asking the students questions like:
    why can't the dynamic comp ratio be to high and how can we solve certain issues with it, like ignition, leaner or richer mixture,....
    all great fun,
    thx again chaps, its greatly apreceated
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    Things you new to consider before buying.

    Your DCR is very low at 6.65, should be shooting for ~ 8.0
    Your quench distance is too larger at .074 inches, should be .040 to .045 inches
    Your deck height at 0.031 ... is this what you actually measured. Normal is .025 inches.

    - You could use a piston with the normal flat top and 4 valve reliefs. Volume of 7cc. More expensive at $340
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-kb125-030/overview/
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-kb139-030/overview/

    You could do something like the following:

    - A gasket that is thinner at .021 inches
    - Piston Head Volume = 7cc
    - A deck height of .025 (This reduces the quench to 0.046 inches, or you could deck the block to between
    0.0 - 0.025 and use a more commonly available head gasket.)
    - Install cam per Edelbrock's suggested 5° advanced
    - See engine #3 below.

    FP02_DCR_Changes.JPG
     
    Arjen likes this.
  7. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

    thats helpful and useful info, he can use!
    thanks RICK!

    btw theres a good deal of info in these threads that will be similar to and useful with a 400 build,
    we try hard to give you all the info required to avoid problems,
    and have an exceptional engine...
    but it takes a bit of reading..asking questions,
    and not skipping sub links


    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-the-rabbit-hole-with-alice.10933/#post-66925


    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bits-of-383-info.38/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/tbucket-engine-project-dart-shp.3814/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/what-to-look-for-in-a-good-engine-combo.9930/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/383-information-overload.11137/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/forged-or-not.13226/#post-69018

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/snap-ring-pliers.11029/#post-48839

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/piston-related-info.110/#post-31943

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/piston-suppliers.2208/#post-19329

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/piston-coating-deburring.4516/#post-16280

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/interesting-406-sbc.10152/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/406-dyno.9530/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ectly-and-get-it-to-last-cam-install-info.90/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/valve-train-clearances-and-problems.528/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...e-springs-and-setting-up-the-valve-train.181/

    READ THESE THREAD's
    and don,t skip the sub linked info
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/engine-balancing.3900/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/engine-balancing.3900/#post-57940

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...t-don-t-destroy-your-budget.10958/#post-48174

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...g-and-installing-connecting-rods-pistons.247/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-rods-from-pressed-to-full-float-pins.6909/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-piston-pin-height-compression-height.5064/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...tion-of-crank-durring-short-blk-assembly.852/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/balance-damper-question.10462/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-and-basic-piston-ring-info-youll-need.509/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/piston-to-bore-clearance.4630/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...guess-on-clearances-and-journal-surface.9955/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/obtaining-desired-clearances.4324/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/engine-block-cylinder-wall-thickness.976/
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018 at 9:17 AM
    Arjen likes this.
  8. Arjen

    Arjen Active Member

  9. Arjen

    Arjen Active Member

    Right.

    Just bought 3 sets of pistons as well , (thank you rick!)
    5.7" Long conrods
    The above mentionned camshaft.
    I have ordered all the piston types previously mentioned as well .
    This to be used as didactic material when the students have to defend their final work at uni later next month.

    More to come

    Arjen
     
  10. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    Lordy, how many sets of pistons did you order?

    What's a "uni" ???
     
  11. Arjen

    Arjen Active Member

    University...
    And 3 sets.
    If the engine is " to hot" for road use ( we aren't holligans) then there is place for something a bit slower....
    More to come
     
  12. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    The pistons I suggested will have less tendency for detonation, since the piston has a larger flat
    surface that matches the head giving more turbulence.
     
    Arjen likes this.
  13. Arjen

    Arjen Active Member

    Yep and that's not all of it.
    Been asking my students what else influences detonation....
    They still got to do a lot off research....
    I am sure they can all find it here.
    And that's what I told them....
    But they are still young and stubern....
     
  14. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

    have the students register and ask questions if they need too!

    don,t get over whelmed, make a list and test adjust correct or replace each problem,
    and check it off the list then move to the next issue,
    its a finite list and theres not a damn thing on it you can,t accomplish,
    with a bit of research, a few questions and this web-sites help
    (a few tools the right attitude and a thick stack of cash would also be useful of course):D:rolleyes:
    detonation related


    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ow-to-reduce-its-likely-hood.9816/#post-40651

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/detonation-damage.2883/#post-31942

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...temps-detonation-resistance.12842/#post-66647

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/build-a-knock-detector.14441/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/dynamic-vs-static-compression.727/#post-7096

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/what-kills-o2-sensors.3049/#post-51439

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/unwanted-engine-bay-heat.12186/#post-59087

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/the-knock-sensor-and-how-it-works.5372/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-octane-for-compression-ratio.2718/#post-7057

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...knock-sensor-and-related-info.3515/#post-9266

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/timing-v-a-f-ratio.5034/#post-14217

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/air-fuel-meters-and-tuning.268/#post-18465
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018 at 8:53 AM
  15. Arjen

    Arjen Active Member

    Been going on to them about for ages...
    They do read a lot of it though!
    And I keep asking them questions about what the difference is between all the parts suggested and the consequences..
    But they are young....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2018 at 8:34 AM
  16. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

    well, any more changes? the project has a good deal of potential,
    I'm looking forward to see how its all coming together and helping avoid
    & fixing potential issues that always tend to come up, in any build.
    as with most engine builds its the attention to the seemingly minor details, that get put into the process, that all add up and combined result in a above average result.

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/porting-can-help.462/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/port-speeds-and-area.333/#post-72826

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...olishing-combustion-chambers.2630/#post-13145

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/ccing-my-heads.14187/#post-71987

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-by-step-guide-with-pictures.5378/#post-71848

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...needs-clean-up-equalization.12474/#post-62647

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-tools-abrasives-sources.10683/#post-46209

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...at-angles-and-air-flow.8460/page-2#post-32923

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...orting-tips-by-smokey-yunick.4222/#post-11120

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/multi-angle-valve-job-related.3143/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/valve-train-clearances-and-problems.528/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-steam-holes-posted-by-dennyw.2991/#post-7851

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...cking-blocks-heads-for-cracks.3363/#post-8862

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/how-to-lap-valve-seats.1159/#post-2362

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...e-springs-and-setting-up-the-valve-train.181/
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018 at 12:34 PM
  17. Arjen

    Arjen Active Member

    Parts are on their way!
    Block and heads painted in Chevy orange
     
  18. Arjen

    Arjen Active Member

    Crank is being magna fluxed
     
  19. Arjen

    Arjen Active Member

    The pics are on my Facebook page....
    Ariejean
     
  20. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

    3/4 quarters of the older guys , on most web sites, (this one also)
    either don,t have a face book page ,
    and/or are totally clueless how to find those pictures if you don,t post a direct link.
    yeah! I,m well aware most 7 -8 year olds live on facebook,
    but most of my generation, and a bunch more people than you may imagine,
    have not and probably won,t bother learning how.
     

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