be sure your fighting the correct fight!

[Indycars]

Bob came by with a buddy of his that has a 1967 Pontiac GTO, with a slightly modified 455 Pontiac engine,(better edelbrock heads, intake headers and crane cam upgrades, plus a 4.11:1 rear gear ratio,and 4l80e trans, the car had an annoying ignition miss, which was tracked down to fouled spark plugs, that he had only had in the car for about 12,000 miles, but he freely admitted adding several cans of both octane booster and injector clearer to the same tank of gas as he thought when the miss started it might be a partly clogged carburetor.
additives can be useful, but pouring 2 cans of octane booster and two cans of injector cleaner in the same tank of gas is not likely to promote good results.
luckily he was down to a 1/4 tank so after swapping and gaping plugs I had him fill the tank with fresh fuel and the car is back running as it should.

So what do you think the original problem was??? Maybe a fleck of carbon ? Problems rarely fix themselves. I wonder, did they try cleaning or replacing the plug before putting a bunch of additives in the tank?

 

[grumpyvette]

Im not sure of which brands he used but many octane boosters use additives that result in a fine crystal like ash forming on the spark plugs surface thats semi conductive and over time it builds up and effectively shorts out the spark plugs, now this ash tends to burn off if the octane boosters not used repeatedly, but in heavier concentrations it can be a true P.I.T.A.
in his case the plugs looked as if the surface was sugar coated, so it was rather obvious it was a contributing factor to the miss the engine developed.
adding an octane booster with a high concentration of toluene to the fuel is far more effective, and less likely to cause tuning issues

I did a quick search to see if I could locate pictures, read these links
http://www.installuniversity.com/instal ... 072000.htm

http://www.shell.com/home/content/aviat ... 71600.html

related threads

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=613&p=12677&hilit=octane+booster#p12677

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=109

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=773

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=202


BTW if your wondering how a CHEVY 4l80E gets bolted to a PONTIAC ENGINE
http://static.summitracing.com/global/i ... 230001.pdf

 

[Indycars]

Good things to know. I've never read or encountered the crystal structure before.

 

[grumpyvette]

I'M always amazed at guys who overlook checking the simple stuff, frank stopped by with a friend who has a 1967 fair-lane with a 428 ford engine with dual quads that looks fairly close to this picture I found on the internet, except his cars a burgundy color.

they had installed two carbs that were not ideal, but carbs they had gotten locally when the car engine started to act up, he had purchased the car with the engine a while ago that had been modified by a previous owner , and he was clueless as to the extent of the previous modifications

they had spent a couple hours installing the intake manifold and swapping jets on two 470cfm rated Holley carbs they had installed om a swap meet dual quad intake, it was barely running so knowing I'm a big fan of dual quads they decided to come by.
the first obvious issue was the linkage was set up incorrectly and the linkage contacted the air cleaner assembly restricting the movement of the linkage .

heres another fe 390 ford dual quad intake picture

well the first thing I suggested was getting the linkage binding issue resolved and then verifying the ignition timing and fuel pressure, once I checked those it was easily apparent that the float levels were not set correctly.once that was corrected I started checking the linkage which they had set up so both carbs opened exactly at the same time and rate rather than progressively.
BTW THOSE ARE NOT THE IDEAL CARBS
checking that and adjusting the linkage resulted in finding the both the front and rear carbs throttle bores intake gasket was binding the throttle blades , so a trip to the local napa store to get new carb to intake gaskets the gaskets came off and got replaced as they were not correct. once that was fixed its was time to make a test run and it was obvious the jetting was a bit too lean, naturally NAPA didn,t have a large selection of holley jets, so I had to send them out to get several sets, after an hours wait we swapped jets up two sizes and the engine seemed to pick up 50-70 hp and the car idled far smoother, but after a few minutes I found the power brake booster vacuum line leaked, once that was replaced the car ran much better.


related thread
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=444&p=20301&hilit=dual+quads#p20301

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=4010&p=10688&hilit=fairlane#p10688

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=773

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=109

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=4683

 

[grumpyvette]

"HEY GRUMPY? my car started making a faint grinding sound when I back up the car yet no noise in forward gears? and ideas?"

Id be looking at the brakes, u-joints and flex plate or clutch as the most likely sources, it will be reasonably easy to locate the source of the noise if you put the car up on 4 frame support,jack stands or a two post lift and have a friend rotate the tires as you look for the source , he might need to start the car or hit the brakes but with the car up off the tires it should be far easier to locate the noise origin, try to locate the source to the engine,transmission ,drive train, rear differential, brakes, etc. is the source related to the gear the cars in?, tire rotation> in or out of gear? is the noise consistent in forward, reverse? on/off the brakes?

these threads and sub links should help a great deal if you take the effort to read thru them.

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=6669&p=21352#p21352

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ver-looked-390-427-fe-family.4010/#post-10688

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=5893&p=22102&hilit=source+noise#p22102

 

[grumpyvette]

youll either think Im kidding or just wonder at times about how peoples minds work, I get a call yesterday from a neighbors son,
he has a dodge with a fuel injected v6 and he can,t get it started, but after checking a few thing I find, he has fuel pressure and ignition spark and the compressions good, the timings good etc. SO,I start questioning him, I found he had done a tune up, the night before, but after he finished, it ran a bit rough, so he decided to pour in a can of fuel injection cleaner in the fuel tank, and not having any on hand, he sees a full quart of marvel mystery oil on the garage shelf , so reading the instructions, it says cleans fuel injectors, and reading no further than that,he pours that into the fuel tank because it says it can be added to the fuel to help clean injectors, what he over looked was the instructions that said add about 4 ounces to a full fuel tank, our kid here added 32 ounces to a fuel tank with about 2 gallons of fuel in the cars fuel tank at the time, (the fuel gauge was barely above empty) and the result was the car won,t start.
I had him go get 3 five gallon cans of fresh fuel , once the tank was full of fresh fuel it only took some starter fluid to get the cars engine started, once the fuel rails , were being flushed by fresh fuel and the fuel lines were allowed to bye-pass fuel back to the tank,as most efi systems do,it worked, and as a result,the fuel rails were not filled with about 10% oil the car ran ok.

the stuff works fine if you read and follow instructions

 

[Indycars]

Come on now Grumpy, you've got to be making some of this up, are people really that stupid ???

Well, at least now he has the cleanest injectors in the state!

 

[grumpyvette]

Come on now Grumpy, you've got to be making some of this up, are people really that stupid ???

Well, at least now he has the cleanest injectors in the state!

I think MOST of us have less than brilliant moments,think back to your own and your friends past adventures, and while that might not be the smartest move I remember back when I was his age and thats a MINOR screw up compared to some I was involved with, so yeah we all learn from mistakes , and Im just glad I could help , and it was easily fixed.
around my neighborhood all the gear-head kids know that if they get into serious trouble with a car build they can at least stop by and ask advice, and the wifes long ago concluded that young guys knocking on the door and asking for . "GRUMPY " is hardly a rare occurance.

if your friends were like mine back in the 1960s-1980s the phrase,s
"spring bind, and valve to piston clearance".
or " phrases like
"just pick the next larger duration cam in the catalog"
bring back a few less than brilliant but memorable decisions

 

[87vette81big]

Pretty good stuff I skim read through & read your links of my personal interest Grumpy.

 

[Loves302Chevy]

Good stories. We've all been there.

 

[Grumpy]

one of the local guys with a 1967 fairlane and a 390 ford, with dual quads stopped by today,
the engine would barely run, plenty of black exhaust smoke.
it turned out too be the same issue my brother-in-law was dealing with....
A bit of experience, diagnostic skills,
a simple fix, after checking things over,
two o-rings and things were back to functioning correctly

I recently was asked to rebuild a holley carb that flooded almost instantly on starting the car,
you could not adjust the float level in the fuel bowl.
a quick check on the carb function resulted in finding a couple rather degraded o-rings,
replacing those o-rings resulted in a fully functional carb ,
that he previously assumed was well worn junk that would need too be replace
at times having an assortment of various lower cost o-rings,
on the shelf is a great time and money saver

https://www.harborfreight.com/205-piece-hnbr-o-ring-kit-67644.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/397-piece-metric-o-ring-assortment-67580.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/382-piece-o-ring-assortment-67554.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/225-piece-metric-nitrile-o-ring-assortment-67609.html

https://www.summitracing.com/search?SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=6-522


https://www.holley.com/products/fue...s_and_components/needle_and_seats/parts/6-522

https://behrents.com/parts/holley-needle-and-seat-assembly-6-522.asp

https://www.holley.com/products/gaskets/carburetor_gaskets/parts/26-37

http://www.getfast1.com/PER-385-10-...arburetor-Carb-AED-BG-Demon-Quick_p_4655.html

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-108-200/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-37-1537/overview/

Holley 6-522 Viton Inlet Needle
($20-$30 a pair depending on source new)

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...obvious-but-obviously-is-not.8485/#post-86400

 

[johnnmo]

35 years ago, my accountant asked me to come over and get my taxes.
He showed me his car project. 67 mustang fastback. It needed a lot of body work. It needed an engine.
One of his customers 'built' a 302. The pan was off and so were the heads. all 8 pistons in backwards, 6 or 7 of one design with 1 or 2 a different. 7 rods that looked the same with an odd one. One had 2 nuts on one bolt.
He claimed it was balanced and capable of 500 hp.
I refused to get involved. I think he is still mad at me!
When I asked what his budget was, he didn't want to spend more than $2500.
Needed body work, paint, tires, wheels, interior, engine, trans work. And most likely about $ 10,000 more one NEVER sees.
And he most likely wanted to do it in trade for services.
Lets see, he plugs numbers into his computer, prints out my papers, 1 Hour? I work 2000 hours and he would be unhappy.
Glad I walked on it.

 

[Grumpy]

having had several projects started and left in my hands over the decades
yeah! Ive had far more than my share of bottomless pit auto related projects, dumped in my lap and ,
invariably, they snow ball, and get RAPIDLY MORE COMPLICATED AND EXPENSIVE,
GUYS see some car show where a piece of crap cars transformed into a show room spectacular,
in 30 minutes and expect you do do something similar with a near zero budget and without them lifting a finger...
the cars owners can,t comprehend how complicated,
and time consuming things really are,
and car owners don,t understand why you can,t simply bolt it together,
and drive the car.....the financing and owners interest lags and the project stalls,
you know its turning into a pile of crap,
unless it gets serious time and cash into the project,
and its ALWAYS YOUR FAULT,that theres no progress made on their car...
they rapidly and invariably have zero interest in working on,
or providing parts or finances too advance the project...
AND YOU ARE ALWAYS EXPECTED TO ... FIX IT!
Id call him up and present him with the options,
or if he does not want to finish the project,explain the options , you
just pull the parts you can resell, and/or tell him either you pay for the parts,
and get your butt over here every week, to work on the car..
or you drop it off at his home,and/or sell it to get what you can out of the project,
or you re-title it in your name , get a mechanics lean on an abandoned car,
and finish it the way that you want it done

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

Race Car Fabrication work is like that.
But it's good money when they do pay.
The true drag racers pay.