Coatings For Titanium Connecting Rods

Discussion in 'Rotating Assemblies' started by Maniacmechanic1, May 9, 2019.

  1. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Got a question today Grumpy for You.
    Ready to move onto the next stage for the Trans Am 455 engine.

    What Coatings are used for Titanium connecting rods on the big end to prevent galling on the side checks against one another ?
    Six Crower Rods have 11 passes 1/4 mile at 900 hp.
    2 are brand new.
    Ready to send them in to Crower and have them inspected.
    New piston pin Ampco Bronze bushings installed.
    Big ends checked out Ok by me and my engine machinist on size.
    Some of the plasma spray was galled.
    Crower Tech said they will re apply the coatings for a nominal fee in $$$.
    Rough quoted but I have it put away $$$$.

    Crower Tech is not sure himself what is used sprayed on.
    Whatever it is its super hard and tough.
    Maybe Chromium Nitrate.
     
  2. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    If no good then I have another full brand new set of Crower Forged Steel rods custom made for me back in 2011.
    Pontiac V8 specs full.
    Rated for at least 1000 Hp @ 8000 rpm.
     
  3. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    I have not ordered the Diamonds yet Grumpy by the way.
    Decided send the To Crower Rods in 1st.
    Just saving up $$$ past 1 month
     
  4. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Ok I just got off the phone with Crower.
    Talked to the actual guy in charge of thier Titanium Connecting Rods.
    Older Gentleman and Super Knowledgeable like Grump.

    The Plasma spray they use is Proprietary.
    Everyone tries to copy it but fails.
    So it's the Best whatever it is.

    Shane I spoke to. He is the Ti Rod Crower guy.

    I asked if ok on the street and small nitrous hits he said just fine.
    They were made for 2000 Hp use my Crower Ti rods with a safety factor of 2:1.
    Failure is actually 4000 Hp.

    I asked about side clearance to use on big ends against the crank.
    He said let the oil flow.
    Would not specify exact.
    Said I will use 1963 SD421 Specs then. Full Drag factory. He said do that.
    .030-.032.

    I ASKED IF TITANIUM DUSTING IS AN ISSUE LIKE C6 ZO6 & ZR1 ....He said no.
    OUR TITANIUM CONNECTING RODS ARE SUPERIOR TO GM.
     
  5. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Box up tonight.
    Send off.
    Going to insure for $10,000.
     
  6. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Last guy did a dry start he said Grumpy.
    Then raced.
    Why engine failed.
     
  7. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    with a good quality oil having a moly content ,
    and proper side clearances,
    I don,t see this as a huge issue
    steel rods don,t seem to have a problem
    theres a constant flow of oil coming off the rod bearings and generally about .001-.0016 side clearance
    bathed in flowing oil
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    https://www.titaniumexposed.com/titanium-connecting-rods.html

    https://www.researchgate.net/public...nts_for_galling_protection_of_titanium_alloys

    http://www.microsurfacecorp.com/ws2...MIo_zHh_6O4gIVxo-zCh0WGAaOEAAYASAAEgJK9vD_BwE

    http://coatingtechnologiesllc.com/2017/11/np3-and-galling-prevention/

    https://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=1219

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-wrist-pins-one-really-over-looked-part.978/

    Diamond-Like-Coating (DLC) are used on some applications
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
  8. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    The last guy even had Titanium wrist pins in that Race Engine Grumpy.
    He blamed it on the Wrist pins failing.
    He was not an engine guy.
    Just owner and driver.
     
  9. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Dug the rods out Grumpy and inspected.
    I bought in 2002.
    Been a long time in the making...
    They are Huge.
    Forgot the massive design.

    Also dug out the single GM factory C6 Z06 Ti Rod.
    Bearing shell intact and on backside dated 7/07 made.
    Scratched with my thumb nail and it's Lead Babbit.
    Not aluminum like 2013 & up.
    My theory right on DC recent.

    Get some pics up after dinner.
     
  10. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

  11. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    So its Two Rods that have moderate to heavy galling on the Plasma spray coating on the Big ends.
    Strange looking coating & hard whatever it is.
     
  12. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Good comparison of the Pontiac V8 Ti rod next to a factory Z06 Corvette Ti Rod & piston.
    The LS Rod is Dinky !
    It went with a horrific Bang on that customer street racing at 170 mph in Chicago at night with 1000 HP supercharged, he said he went sideways at 130 mph !
    How I know titanium connecting rods are super strong. The Rod is near mint yet OK.
     
  13. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Boxed up & ready to ship the 6 Ti rods off to Crower Tomorrow night after work.
    Insure for $10k....wait for the phone call back next coming week.
     
  14. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Just shipped off to Crower the Pontiac V8 Ti. Rods.
    Insured for $10k.
    Costed $135.00.
    $105.00 for $10k declared value !
     
  15. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    The Titanium Rods made it To Crower in Chula Vista San Diego California yesterday.
    Tracked my Rods everyday.
    Actually disappeared for 5 days !
    Waited...
    Signed by receiver at Crower confirmation .
    I was instructed to call the next day after I tracked my Rods making its way to them.
    So Today I will call and get my Quote.
    They have to see the rods in person 1st and inspect check themselves.
    Get no Bill of sales Invoice number till then.

    Stuff you have to through with High end expensive racing parts.
     
  16. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    The guy was short with me today.
    It's Race season....
    If you call Crower just bite your tongue.

    Called back 2 hours later Shane.
    He inspected.
    Quoted me $380.
    Resize the Big ends they always do it to be safe.
    New Ampco Bronze bushings installed in the small end.
    Plasma spray reapplied to the Big End side checks.
    Will be done all shipped out next week.
    Took my credit card number paid for.

    Asked for a Hp Rating.
    Shane has to weigh the rods and get back to me next week.
     
  17. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Still waiting.
    Called today several times.
    Got through.
    Just Strange Grumpy.
    Leaves me uneasy.
    They had better of not Fick up.

    Got on Facebook To Crowers page.
    Lots of complaints Grumpy.
    Bad customer service.
    Don't want to get into details today but it happened to me.

    No matter how much you push Crower cams......
    I am going to call Ron and his Dad Ed Iskenderien 1st.
     
  18. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    no one is PUSHING CROWER cams,
    YES I have used them in many engine builds along with,
    dozens of CRANE and ERSON cams,
    even a few LUNATI and ISKY cams
    I don,t get one cent in commissions or kick-backs,
    if you or anyone else uses any of them,
    I can,t speak for any of them,
    I have zero connections other than as a customer
     
  19. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Yes I know.

    Got Wiz's in customer service if that helps explain to you.
    One Wiz Moron is enough!

    Bruce Crower built a great company !
    Those Titanium Pontiac Rods costed the last owner almost $9,000 cash he told me back in 2002.
    He had a $300,000 1963 Tempest Nostalgia Super Stock Race Car !
     
  20. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    at times you might question the level of sanity if someone puts $300K
    into a race car,

    Knowing without question ,
    that he will be lucky to get 1/8th of the

    investment back in time.

    yes I can see some corporation writing it off as advertising,
    hell a 30 second spot on the super bowl costs millions

    and you can get that advertisement painted on a race car door,
    flashing by the stand and seen by hundreds of thousands of spectators,
    a hundred , 125, or, 250 or more times every race,
    sponsoring a race car.
    and over several races every season for only $300K why not, its a bargain!
    (IF YOU HAVE CASH TO BURN)
     

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