Hello from Indy!!


I have to wonder if this can be done for $2000. To get the compression needed with 76cc heads
(I'm guessing on chamber size) domed pistons will be required. There is not enough material
on the block and heads for milling to get that compression.

To get near the 10.5 ratio, I had to change the piston from a flat top (+5cc) to a domed
piston (-10cc), that's a 15cc change in the combustion chamber volume. To help compression
you could go with a stroker crank like in the 2nd engine example, but the only thing I found
at Summit for roughly $200 was 3.75" stroke cast steel crankshaft. Now you will have to keep
an eye on the mean piston speed if you are going to use the available RPM with that
camshaft of 6800. But if Monsolo2 doesn't expect to ever get close to the maximum RPM, then.....

Note: I used 75cc in the examples so that a clean up cut could be taken to make sure the
heads are flat.





 

Attachments

  • PistonSpeed01.JPG
    PistonSpeed01.JPG
    132.7 KB · Views: 437
  • Monsolo_DCR.JPG
    Monsolo_DCR.JPG
    78.4 KB · Views: 437
keep in mind that if he were to go to a 383 stroker kit it would add a good deal more cost and complexity to the rebuild, but it would also effectively add 30-40 ft lbs of torque and lower the power band about 400rpm with that cam, now you don,t need to reve the engine nearly that high,even if you have the capacity, I know from experience that cam, in a 10.5:1 cpr 350 pulls well in a light car from about 3200rpm up to easily 6500rpm and higher, (4000fpm in piston speed is not exceeded at 6500rpm in a 350 SBC)but theres no need to spin the engine past that, or even past 6000rpm so hypereutectic pistons would work and keep the cost lower provided he keeps the rpm levels reasonable, which should not be a problem with an auto trans as most shift well under 6000rpm, yes youll need to verify the piston dome will work with the heads used and yes youll need to check valve train and piston to valve clearances.
looking at the application and stated goals I don,t see where use of the hypereutectic pistons would be a liability , as long as the engines used as a cruiser and seldom exceeds 6000-6500rpm with that stock 3.48" stroke,and having built similar combos in the past I would only suggest being very sure the quench was correct, you keep the Fuel/Air ratio near 12.7:1 as that tends to make good power and reduce the engines tendency to get into detonation,and you set the ignition timing curve to stay well out of detonation, Id a;lso suggest premium octane fuel, a good oil and trans cooler and a 180f t-stat, with a large radiator ,no piston likes detonation but hypereutectics don,t last long if subjected to it.


UEM-9905HCKTM030.jpg

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UEM-9905HCKTM030/

READ THESE LINKS

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=399

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181
 

I suppose a milder camshaft would also work, but he did want that lopey idle. Nothing seems to stop us from want our cake and eating it to. :D
 
Indycars and Grumpy, thanks for all the analysis work! I greatly appreciate it. Let me get the engine apart and take some measurements of the bore and the heads to see what's already been done. When Jim gave it to me, he told me he thought he remembered the guy saying it had a compression ratio over 10 already. So, this engine might already have been worked over. From what I've read about this series of blocks, they're popular because of the meat they have since they were used for 302's, 327's, and 350's. I guess they're strong blocks. If I find out it's already been worked over, that could bode well for us IF the heads are still flat and the bores are in good shape. I'd probably just clean it up and put the necessary new components back into it and let it go. If there are problems, then I'll see what the machine shop recommends and go from there.

I guess without knowing what's truly in it, I'm just guessing at this point. But ultimately this engine build is more to educate my boys than it is to generate massive power. Even if all we can afford to do is a basic rebuild with stock parts, that's still perfect for us. If we can do a bit here and there to make it sound good and burn the tires, then cool!

One thing is for certain, though... you guys know your stuff and thanks for your input! I'll feed info back as we tear into it this weekend...
 
Hey I have a set of iron EQ heads that are 67 cc chambers, good set of heads, 2.02/1.6 valves. Friend and I built them to put on a circle track stock car, but the sanctioning body would not allow us to run them because the valves were too big. They have about five hrs of actual running time on the engine. Send me a message monsolo2 if your interested.
 
Well, we worked a little bit this weekend on the SBC and got the heads torn down. Turns out the heads are 3932441's which, from I've been reading on various sites, are good for about 9.8:1 max depending on what pistons are used. Everyone I'm talking to says to find a pair of Vortec heads... well, I found a pair on Craigslist that are available for $125 off of a 2004 2500 van. I'm having the guy check the casting numbers because I have no idea if they'll work on this block or not. Question: will any 350 SBC head work on any 350 SBC block? More specifically, what are the odds of Vortec heads from a 2004 engine working with my 1969-era block?
 
STANDARD OEM vortec heads have approximately a 170cc port volume and are designed to maximize torque in a 350 at about 4500rpm, they ARE generally slightly better than the older fuelie heads but there are much better heads currently available.
Theres no question that the standard vortec head flows better at near 230cfm than the previous fuelie and corvette heads that flowed less than 210cfm in stock form
but theres a dozen or more aftermarket heads that flow well in excess of 250-280cfm, at reasonable valve lift ranges


a couple hours spent reading links could save you a ton of money and work

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... eads1.html

http://www.ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos1.html

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=519
Look thru the combos in the links and notice that as long as the components selected remain fairly well matched, the higher the head flow rates and the larger the displacement and the higher the compression ratio, and with a matching cam timing, the better the power curve ,that results

http://www.profilerperformance.com/raci ... -23-degree

http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/5089/10002/-1

http://www.racingheadservice.com/Cylind ... minum.aspx

http://www.dartheads.com/products/cylin ... heads.html

http://www.jegs.com/i/Brodix/158/1021001/10002/-1

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-30400002/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-5073/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-60719/

you might want to read thru these links, a couple hours reading could save you a good deal of time and money

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5364

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5129

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=389

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=5521

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2099&p=17024&hilit=fuelie+heads#p17024

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=731&p=1539&hilit=machining+vortec#p1539

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=401&p=6078&hilit=machining+vortec#p6078

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=6175&p=19304&hilit=machining+vortec#p19304

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=529&p=657&hilit=machining+vortec#p657

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=266&p=321&hilit=machining+vortec#p321
 
Thanks, Grumpy! I WILL be reading those links, especially now since I've gone through two people on Craigslist both of whom claimed to have 350 Vortec heads, when in reality they were both 305 Vortec heads after cross-checking the casting numbers! Idiots!!

Anyway, I'll go through your links and become more educated...
 
monsolo2 said:
We're going to weld-up our own box-steel frame and buy a salvaged-title C4 Corvette for the
Dana 44 rear-end and front suspension.
Went back to the start of your thread and was refreshing my memory about your project
when I noticed that you are planning on building your frame. Do you have an idea what size
tubing/wall thickness you will be using?

 
Indycars, we have a set of plans that call for either 1.5"x3" or 2"x3" 11-ga steel box-tubing. I'll probably go with the 2"x3"...
 
monsolo2 said:
Indycars, we have a set of plans that call for either 1.5"x3" or 2"x3" 11-ga steel box-tubing. I'll probably go with the 2"x3"...

Ok good, just was checking to make sure you were going to use something strong enough. Lots of
people seem to like the 2 x 3", with a wall thickness of 3/16". Guess it all depends on what you
might do way out there in the future for an engine, if you do something really wild.

If you haven't found this forum yet you will find lots of good help here:

http://www.tbucketeers.com/

 
Back
Top