Horsepower chain book

Its a good thing for all us here Grumpy that we have You to explain, answer tough tech questions, and guide.
When an ENGINEER IS REQUIRED to troubleshoot and verify.
Looking forward to reading the new book and trying out the engine simulation software.

Brian R.
 
well the book went out today so Id expect it to show up in a few days
says expect delivery on 4/13/13

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Hey Grump, does that book have a software disc with it that we can install in our computer?
 
The book has got a AUDIO CD that has the guy giving a very brief introduction to the books chapters and PROMOTING the sale of the DYNO SOFTWARE

http://www.auto-ware.com/

http://www.auto-ware.com/software/softwareindex.htm

http://www.auto-ware.com/software/eap/eap.htm

you buy the dyno soft ware here, it costs $459
I purchased the software about 8 years ago and several upgrades since, but it requires an activation code that can only be used once to activate it on a single computer , if you want to load the software on a different computer you need to call them with the serial number and they verify your the original purchaser before giving the new activation code

a typical result shows like this, but to fill out all their requested data to get a printed result takes you a good 20-30 minutes and a bit of research
its not nearly as easy to use as DD2000 but it is more accurate
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My God. $459.00 for the Dyno software CD.
Its worth it for the upper echolon engine builder with a clientel willing to dish out $50k for a top notch national dirt track engine, pro stock racing, ect.
My Desktop Dyno 2000 costed me $15 on ebay.
New and never opened box.

Read the book.
Ask Grumpy questions.
Like that formation better myself.

Brian
 
have you found anything interesting, you want to discuss or can you post questions ?
what did you find in the book that was not explained well and do you think it was worth the cost?
are you likely to buy the software package?
 
grumpyvette said:
have you found anything interesting, you want to discuss or can you post questions ?
what did you find in the book that was not explained well and do you think it was worth the cost?
are you likely to buy the software package?
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Unfortunately, I have only made if half way through the book. Work travel has intervened. It’s an easy read and each of the section describing the ‘Seven Cycles’ presents a good summary and focuses on parameters that make the most impact on performance for each cycle. The premise of the book is that there are seven cycles that an engine goes through each time a cylinder fires, and these have to be optimized individually and with respect to the previous and next cycles in order to get the most performance out of an engine.

The seven cycles are:
- Intake pumping, where the piston going down into the bore creates a vacuum and pumps air/fuel charge into the cylinder.
- Intake ramming, which starts after BDC , where the piston is coming up in the bore and is no longer pumping, but the momentum of the column of air/fuel going through the port allows it to continue to fill the cylinder. The book claims that this is the process which allows very high volumetric efficiencies in some racing engines.
- Compression, which starts when the intake valve closes and the pistons starts compressing the air/fuel mixture.
- Fuel burning and expansion, which starts when the plug fires and continues to TDC and through when the piston is pushed back down the bore.
- Exhaust blowdown, which starts when the exhaust valve opens and the higher pressure in the cylinder blows out through the exhaust valve.
- Exhaust pumping, which starts at BDC of the exhaust stroke, when the piston starts to move up and pump the exhaust out of the cylinder.
- Valve overlap, when the exhaust valve is closing and the intake valve is opening near top dead center.

It seems that the book is actually a reprint, under a different title, of a 2007 book called "Engine Pro - the Book". Being a computer nerd, I find the insight to the formulas the Engine Pro software uses interesting. For example, they describe in detail the formula to calculate dynamic compression based in intake valve closing angle. I can see myself playing around with these formulas in Excel.

I have DynoSim 5 so I wouldn’t be interested in the Engine Pro software.

As far as, is the book worth it? I think so, epically since we split the cost. One of the benefits of the forum..

I should be done with it by next weekend; I’ll get it out to the next guy in the chain.
 

For $196 you can get both, the book and software. The same price as just the software.

http://www.mcssl.com/SecureCart/ViewCar ... 78e&bhcp=1

This product is based on the physics behind Quarter jr's "Engine Pro" software. If you don't already own "Engine Pro", I would like to make you an offer, for today only, to include the software. "Engine Pro" is normally $199 and is currently on sale for $149. But, if you buy everything today, I will include the software for $99 - making the total price $196 - Click here to purchase this package now! If you want just the Book and CD, click the "Add To Cart" button above.
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bytor said:
I mailed the book to the next guy today, USPS tracking# 9505521419623119000647
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great! what was your most important impression gained from reading thru, the books contents?

Do you think it changed or altered your outlook or way of looking at components you might want to use or selecting components?

have you gotten a better understanding of how each choice might effect the other parts selected/

did you get the feeling you might have been previously over looking any areas?
 
I just finished reading it Grumpy! I did not fully understand all the math and formulas, but there are sections I like called practical advice, and has a areas where it has "Features that affect each of the 7 processes!", then it has " Engine Performance Issues", each having good information. I am going to do some typing and put some of the info into a file for my future use. Once I do that I will send it on to the next guy on the list.
 
I agree with Busterrm, the practical advice and final chapter information was good. In the final chapter he discusses the primary indicators in estimating performance. Like, "The number one most important process for predicting an engine's RPM and HP is the intake pumping process." AND "Once the overall engine bore and stroke have been set, selecting and measuring the intake flow bench data is the most critical item and the number one predictor of overall engine performance"

Response to Gruumpy’s questions:
What was your most important impression gained from reading thru, the books contents?
I liked how the book focused on the areas that contribute most to increasing performance. At the end of each of the 7 process walkthrough, I liked the ‘practical advice’ summary.

Do you think it changed or altered your outlook or way of looking at components you might want to use or selecting components?
When I get time, I want to go back and run my setup through the formulas explained in the book.

Have you gotten a better understanding of how each choice might affect the other parts selected?
This read was helpful and gave me a different way to look at things. Without the knowledge gained from the forum, I think this book would be tough to comprehend.

Did you get the feeling you might have been previously overlooking any areas?
Not really, I think it would have helped me focus on the most important process and elements that provide the most performance gain.
 
well, as each new person on the list,I included in the book receives and reads thru the book, then adds their input ,once they read thru the book, I bet we will get a few more discussions and questions.
personally I think the books main goal was to promote the software dyno sales.
 
grumpyvette said:
well, as each new person on the list,I included in the book receives and reads thru the book, then adds their input ,once they read thru the book, I bet we will get a few more discussions and questions.
personally I think the books main goal was to promote the software dyno sales.
Click to expand...
I agree Grumpy, it does mention the software on a large scale. But as the intro says, the book was written to actually describe how the software development occured.
I did notice a few formulas and worked them out and according to the formulas, not real world, I figured out that 350s and 383s would benefit from no larger than a 1.94 intake valve. But like I said that is a formula and not the seat of your pants dyno each of us hotrodders have built in.
Another formula I looked at gave me a estimation that we (hotrodders) should also be running a little larger exhaust valve when using the larger intake valves. I did a estimation with 2.05 intake valves and it turned out that a 1.65 or 1.70 exhaust valve would supposedly work better. Especially in big block combos, the way I understood it a larger exhaust valve would promote a faster "Exhaust Blowdown" process and would give less or no leftover exhaust gases to promote a cleaner and fresher Air/Fuel mix going in the next cycle.
 
The option of swapping to the larger exhaust valve is frequently over looked or ignored and its use is not always required or beneficial, in most street cars with restrictive exhaust systems,but it can be very useful on some combos, especially in my experience, with combos like a big block with stack injection, and open tuned headers, running a high compression ratio like 13.7:1 with a tight LSA cam timing, as the greater exhaust flow inertia helps the headers scavenge the cylinders better.
when I built my second 496 big block, I started with bare open chamber ,extensively ported heads, I had a choice between the then standard 1.88" and 1.94" exhaust valves, on the advise of a couple machinists I trusted , and after a long talk with the tech guys at CROWER CAMS who sold me the stack injection, I went with the larger valve size and a tight LSA (very similar to the crower 01339 thats now made on a 110 LSA, but I had mine ground on a 105 LSA)
to use on a 13.7:1 compression 496 with crower injectors, I had it installed in a 3100 lb camaro with a tip off fiberglass front cap, and a dana rear differential, tubed rear, 31" tall slicks, 4.88:1 rear gear, I was very pleased with the results

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0 ... to_06.html

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article ... gines.aspx

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article ... pdate.aspx

http://www.aera.org/engine-professional ... echnology/

http://www.precisionenginetech.com/tech ... ns-part-2/
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Crower_Injectors.jpg
 
Busterrm, any more thoughts on the book?

One of the calculations from the book I have been playing around with is the OptCam. Based on bore, stroke, CR and RPMTQ your supposed get an indication of the right intake can duration @ 0.050 you should use. I used the variables for my build and it calculated out to 256 @ 0.050. When planning my build using desktop dyno and Grumpy's famous cam sizing chart, an intake duration of 233 @ 0.050 was the sweet spot recommendation. Now I have not gone back and double checked my math but it seems off a bit. Here’s the section from the book.



One of the other comments I found interesting was in the Friction chapter. In the recommendations section it talks about "switching the alternator field off at full throttle." Grumpy, whats your thoughts on this advice?

Links:
http://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=101/prd101.htm
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Wiring/Part2/
 

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OK the key here thats obvious is that were talking about a MAX potential power range and your use of 14.7:1 compression , and trying to maximize the TORQUE CURVE at 6000RPM , all thats correct for a race engine, but far higher in the rpm band than any street driven car engine would be using. keep in mind max realistic durability would be near 4200 feet per minute in piston speed and you would not want to reach 4500 feet per minute for more than a few seconds if you wanted the engine to last very long even with good aftermarket components, in most cases the torque peak on a race engines going to fall about 800rpm-1500rpm lower than the power peak and you don,t want to exceed the piston speed limitations.
with a 3.625 stroke your looking at a 6000rpm torque peak and about a 7000rpm power peak where a 14.7:1 compression engine would use a cam with near 270 duration, and a cam LSA in the 106- 108degree range


HERES THAT INFO YOU PLACED A LINK TOO!
How can I make "Free" horsepower?


There are several ways of making free horsepower on most older cars. When an alternator "energizes" and begins charging, it loads down and can suck up about 10 to 12 horsepower. Don't believe me? Fine. Just listen to your engine lug down 50 to 100 RPM when you hook-up some jumper cables to jump start a friend with a dead battery. That my friend's is the alternator lugging the engine down under a load. Justhow much power do you think it takes to force an engine to drop in idle 100 RPM? If you are racing at night with your headlights on or your battery is a little low... then your engine is being put through the same "load" as you're racing down the track. You can gain this HP back by simply installing a switch in the "field" wire to shut it off. The field supplies the alternator with electricity which energizes it, or basically, "turns it on". Alternators need electricity to work, unlike old generators, so if you don't allow this field wire to energize the alternator then you have gained a few more ponies. To do this though, you MUST turn the engine off first and make sure the key is off when the alternator kill switch is turned off, otherwise the alternator will NOT "de-energize" if the engne is already running. Once the engine's running and you want to re-energize the alternator, simply flip the switch while you're driving and it instantly turns-on. Now, a BIG down side to this is if you have a high energy ignition system, ESPECIALLY something like an MSD box! Those boxes need full power to function properly. If you try this alternator trick when you have anything other than an old points type ignition system you'll end up LOSING power because the poor ignition system isn't going to like it. The battery alone is barely enough to run an MSD sustem. You REALLY need the additional current and voltage from the charging system if you are running one of those. I said this was free horsepower, I didn't say it woud be a great idea for all vehicles :)

Indexing your spark plugs is another way of gaining you a few extra horsepower. The object is to get the gap of the plug facing the intake valve, or at least facing the open area of the cylinder. If a spark plug's ground strap is facing the intake valve or the cylinder, it kind of blocks the flame travel, which impairs the burn path thus causing a loss in power. It can be a 6 - 8 horsepower difference in some engines by indexing the plugs.

Don't run a high volume oil pump. Most street and street / strip guys believe you just HAVE to run a high volume oil pump. The reality is, you don't! Standard oil pumps pump plenty of oil and have plenty of pressure to support most mild performance engines up to 6,000 RPM. By installing a high volume oil pump you increase the drag on the engine while it is trying to turn that pump to push that additional oil which robs you of power you didn't need to lose.

Another way to gain a substantial amount of power is to remove your power steering pump and convert your car over to manual steering. I don't recommend this for daily drivers because the steering will become harder. Power steering pumps can easily suck-up 20 to 30 horsepower. Don't believe me? Turn your steering wheel a little, side to side, while your engine is idling and hear the idle drop a hundred or so RPM. How much horsepower do you think it takes to lug your engine down that far? Yeah... about 20 or 30. So you say you aren't "steering" while you're driving down the drag strip? Well, every time your car gets squirrelly off the line, you have to "correct" it by steering, and there went 20 to 30 horsepower. If your car doesn't get squirrelly, maybe you should call us and order a BAD-ASS Engine and then you’ll be fish tailing! LOL

Another way of gaining about 8 to 10 HP is by draining about 1 quart of oil out of your oil pan. Most cranks dip into the oil pretty deeply and that‘s why windage trays work so well and get you more power at RPM. They keep the oil away from the crank which makes less drag. When the engine is full of oil, it is like wading through knee deep water. Try to run while in knee deep water. It isn’t that easy because of the drag the water puts on your body. When you drain out 1 quart, this makes the crank less deep in the oil as it spins. It’s now like walking in ankle deep water. Try to run now, it’s a LOT easier than it was when it was knee deep, right? Well the same principals are at work here as well and will make you free power. Switching to a slightly thinner oil is another way of gaining power. This puts less drag on the crank as it dips through it in the pan as well as makes the oil pump spin easier and much more free which in turn, takes less power to spin. Only do the power steering belt trick and these two oil tricks at your own risk. If you crash because you couldn’t steer because your steering was too hard while the belt was off, that is your fault, not ours. If you wipe-out your engine because you drained too much oil out or ran too thin of an oil to keep your engine protected, that is on you and not us. If you don’t know exactly what you are doing, don’t do it!"


keep in mind ALL OF THIS this advice seems to be directed at use of a drag race engine, NOT a road race or street driven combo and certainly not daily transportation, or an engine running pump octane gas limitations, in that limited context, the info may be valid. Yes with a drag race engine , where your under high rpm stress for only a few second and reducing the drag on the engine could potentially give you a few hundredths of a second advantage. on most performance street engine builds youll be trying to maximize the torque curve and ideally maximize the power curve in the rpm band youll actually use on the street, making a 4000rpm-5000rpm torque peak and a 5500rpm-6000rpm power peak on a 383-406 SBC, or a 454-496 BBC much more realistic
 
Is it possible to build a SBC based engine with a Real Flat Power Band with 400 Ft/lbs minium, peak torque around 550 Ft/lbs, able to Rev to 7k safely, Hp of 500-550 peak number,pump gas burning 93 octane Shell brand gasoline, large budget of $10-15k ? Normally aspirated.
I know you have devoted much research to Induction systems, Header design, and engine design parameters Grumpy.
Ram induction tuning would be a key dedign factor.
I call it Finate Amplitude Waves at work for You.

Thinking of the 1990-96 ZR-1 16 Plenum Runner,32 valve DOHC engine.
Usable power started at 2,000 rpms & could wind out to 7k rpms.
11.0:1 static compression ratio.
Power rated at 375-405 Hp.
Some claimed 400 Ft/lbs @ 2,000rpms only.
91-93 pump octane burning.
Not much today against a new C 6 ZR1 supercharged 638 Hp Vette.
But C4 ZR-1 engine very unique and had a seemingly steller intake mainfold design 2- stage split runner layout.
Looked always killer too.

Any thoughts ever trying to build a similar intake Grumpy for a sbc or BBC ?
 
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