how to carb an LS series engine

grumpyvette

grumpyvette

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http://www.aera.org/ep/downloads/ep10/E ... _10-19.pdf

http://static.summitracing.com/global/i ... tedvic.pdf

read the links above they hold a great deal of info
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-28097/

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/150 ... yle-block/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-300-120/
HLY-300-120z.jpg


edl-28097_w.jpg


The Edelbrock Super Victor Jr. carbureted
intake manifold P/N 28097 features an
operating range of 3500 – 8000 rpm. This
is a high-rise single plane intake, capable
of supporting over 600 HP. This manifold
accepts a square bore carb. The Super
Victor offers greater air flow potential
than previous LS manifolds. The carb
mount pad is 1.12” taller than the Victor
Jr. LS1, and the port exits have been
increased to1.08” x 2.74”. This manifold
has already been accepted by NASCAR
for use in the Grand National division/
Busch North spec engine series. Carb pad
height is 6.07”.



A SAMPLE BUILD:
AN LS ENGINE WITH
CARB AND COILPACKS
I recently built an LS2 with a carburetor
setup. My build featured a new LS2
(6.0L) aluminum block, purchased
from Scoggin Dickey (a well known
GM performance parts stocking dealer).
The block was then overbored by a
mere 0.005” (to 4.005”), and a Lunati
4.000” stroker crank and Lunati 6.125”
H-beam connecting rods were employed
to achieve a final displacement of 403.13
CID.
The remainder of the build involved
a pair of Trick Flow aluminum heads,
a custom-grind roller cam from Crane
(0.624”valve lift & 256/264 deg.
duration @0.050”), off-the-shelf JE
pistons (our compression ratio was
10.6:1), Harland Sharp aluminum roller
rockers, and the Edelbrock Super Victor
intake manifold and Edelbrock 800 cfm
carb. The ignition consisted of MSD coil
packs, and MSD timing control module.
On the engine dyno, the motor easily
pulled a documented 625.4 HP and 534
ft-lbs of torque without breaking a sweat.
Throttle response was incredibly quick.
The result: a non-computer-controlled
lightweight V8 that can shatter glass
from downtown high-rise office
buildings, and can snap your neck under
wide open throttle. Not bad for “old
school.”

GM Engine Vin Codes
Anyone going out looking for a 4.8L or 5.3L Truck based LS engine that has already been removed from the vehicleBeware, Because unless you can look into the spark plug hole with a scope or little camera to see the top of the piston or insert a wire and run it across the piston surface to feel if it's dished or a flat top It's hard to tell the difference between those two. However if you look for the 8th digit in the VIN It will tell you most everything you need to know.

1999-2006 Trucks, Vans & SUV
4.3L, VIN. X or W(2003+) (8th digit)
6.0L, VIN. U (8th digit), (LQ4) Trucks, Vans and Denali
6.0L, VIN. N (8th digit) (LQ9) Escalades & SS Silverado
4.8L, VIN. V (8th digit)
5.3L, VIN. T (8th digit, opt LM7)
5.3L, VIN. Z (8th digit, opt L59)
5.3L, VIN. B (8th digit, opt L33 05+ HO Aluminum and Iron Block with 243/799 heads)

2007+ Trucks
classic body style, 6.0L, VIN. U (8th digit, opt LQ4), Compressed Natural Gas and Gasoline
classic body style, 6.0L, VIN. N (8th digit, opt LQ9)
classic body style, 4.8L, (VIN. V, 8th digit, opt LR4)
classic body style, 5.3L, VIN. T (8th digit, opt LM7)
classic body style, 5.3L, VIN. Z (8th digit, opt L59)
classic body style, 5.3L, VIN. B (8th digit, opt L33)
classic body style, 4.3L, (VIN. X, 8th digit, opt LU3)

new body style, 5.3L, (VIN. 0, 8th digit, opt LMG)
new body style, 5.3L, (VIN. J, 8th digit, opt LY5)
new body style, 5.3L, (VIN. 3, 8th digit, opt LC9)
new body style, 5.3L, (VIN. M, 8th digit, opt LH6)
new body style, 6.0L, (VIN. Y, 8th digit, opt L76)
new body style, 4.3L, (VIN. X, 8th digit, opt LU3)
new body style, 4.8L, (VIN. C, 8th digit, opt LY2)

5.3L
2003-04 GMC Truck Envoy XL
2003-04 Isuzu Ascender
2003-04 Chevy TrailBlazer EXT (all with VIN "P", 8th digit)
2005-06 (all with VIN "M", 8th digit)
 
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a few ls engine parts

http://sdparts.com/details/scoggin-dick ... r/sd5881-1

http://sdparts.com/details/gm-factory-r ... s/19213580

http://sdparts.com/details/gm-performan ... s/12480030

http://sdparts.com/details/gm-performan ... s/12561166

http://sdparts.com/details/gm-performan ... s/12623967

http://www.trickflow.com/egnsearch.asp? ... wordSearch

http://www.trickflow.com/partdetail.asp ... toview=sku

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new ... -ls1.shtml

http://www.holley.com/300-120.asp

http://www.holley.com/300-113.asp



Everything you ever wanted to know about the LQ4/LQ9 engines!




6000 Vortec 6.0L

LQ4
The Vortec 6000, or LQ4, is a V8 truckengine. It is a bored version of the Vortec 5300. Displacement is 6.0 L (≈366 cu in) from 101.6 mm bore and 92 mm stroke. It is an iron/aluminum (2000 model year engines had cast iron heads) design and produces 300 horsepower (220 kW) to 325 horsepower (242 kW) and 360 lb•ft (488 N•m) to 370 lb•ft (502 N•m). LQ4s are built in Romulus, Michigan and Silao, Mexico.

LQ4 applications:

Chevrolet Express/GMC Savana
Chevrolet Silverado 2500 Pickup, 3500 Pickup, Crew Cab, and Chassis Cab/GMC Sierra 2500 HD Pickup and Crew Cab, C3, Denali, and 3500 Pickup and Chassis Cab, 1500HD Crew Cab
Chevrolet Suburban/GMC Yukon XL Denali
Hummer H2 SUT
GMC Yukon Denali

LQ9
The Vortec HO 6000 or VortecMAX is a special high-output version of the Vortec 6000 V8 truck engine originally designed for Cadillac. This engine was introduced in other truck lines as VortecMAX for 2006. It features high-compression (10:1) flat-top pistons for an extra 10 hp (7.5 kW) and 10 ft•lbf (14 N•m), bringing output to 345 hp (257 kW) and 380 ft•lb (515 N•m). LQ9s are built only in Romulus, Michigan. GM also listed it as based on LS architecture.[1]

LQ9 Applications:

2002-2006 Cadillac Escalade
2002-2006 Cadillac Escalade EXT
2003-2006 Cadillac Escalade ESV
2003-2007 Chevrolet Silverado SS
2004-2005 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra Vortec HO Edition Only [Badging on truck]
2006-2007 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra VortecMAX Option



The 99-00 6.0L had the longer rear main flange on the crank. It was 1.25 inches thick. They also came with Iron Heads. in 01- up the swithched to the standard more common crank flange thickness which measures .857 at the rear main flange area. They used a spacer between the crank flange and fly wheel to compensate for the extra thickness need to get the fly wheel to bolt up with the 4L80E Torque converter. As a result the Bolts are also longer... 01 6.0L was also the first year for the Aluminum Heads on the 6.0L
The camshaft is the same in the LQ4 and LQ9. It has same part number on it.... The diffrence is the pistons and rods... The LQ4 which is pretty standard for the truck line up has a slight dish in it while the LQ9 has a flat top piston... The LQ9 is ussually found in the High end caddy SUV, SS Truck, and the VHO optioned crew cabs
Now in the first designLQ9 piston I believe they used a standard LS1 rod with a pressed pin. They Later (04 LQ9) switched to the beffier LS2 rod with a Floating pin flat top piston.

Yes the LQ9 piston Is the same flat top piston used in the LS2. They have a floating Pin. The conecting rods are also the same.

The difference In power comes from the added compression and the factory programing. The LQ9 is tuned for more performance with the bump in compression.
Factory camshaft part numbers
The 99-00 LQ4 6.0L used the 12560967 - this is also used in the 5.3L
The 01-up LQ4 6.0L used the 12561721
The 02-up LQ9 6.0L also used the 12561721

Factory Camshaft specs are:
12560967 191/190 duration at .050 0.457/0.466 lift on a 114 Lobe center
12561721 196/207 duration at .050 0.467/0.479 lift on a 116 Lobe center
Now to adress the 5.3/4.8 Since it was mentioned also...

They can be bored from the stock 5.3L/4.8L 3.779 (96mm) to Factory LS1 3.898 (99mm) bore in some cases up to 3.905. It is however recomended that you have the block sonic checked First before trying to go that far. Some blocks may have casting flaws or core shift issues that may not allow that much of an over bore...

Now in some very early cases there were 5.3/4.8 blocks that were cast with a large 6.0 above the 5.3/4.8 These blocks are few and far between but can be bored to the stock 6.0L 4.00 bore (101mm). There is not a whole lot of info out there on them as they seem to be hard to find.

So now you ask whats the diff between a 4.8L and 5.3L and why do they use the same block???

They use the same Bore but a 4.8L has a shorter stroke with a longer rod.
LR4 4.8L=3.267 (83mm) Stroke with 6.275 rod
LM4/LM7 5.3L=3.662 (92mm) stroke with 6.098 rod
LQ4/LQ9 6.0L=3.662 (92mm) stroke with 6.098 rod

As far as the 5.3L and 4.8L piston go a 4.8 is a flat top piston and the 5.3L is dished....

Can you use a 4.8L piston with the 5.3L Internals???? Of course you can!!!

Infact GM has already done just that with the L33 option 5.3L engine...


4.8 Specs
4.8 stroke: 3.268
4.8 rod : 6.275
4.8 deck height: 9.240

5.3 Specs
5.3 stroke:3.622
5.3 rod: 6.098
5.3 deck height: 9.240

Now do the math: the centerline of the cank is half the stroke of couse and the deck height is measured of the centerline of the crank.

5.3 Stroke 3.622/2 = 1.811
4.8 Stroke 3.268/2 = 1.634

5.3:
1.811 + 6.098 = 7.909
9.240 - 7.909 = 1.331 Pin Height

4.8:
1.634 + 6.275 = 7.909
9.240 - 7.909 = 1.331 Pin Height
 
BigChevy said:
My Buddy recently started a project and was in need of an LQ4 engine from a junkyard and after looking in hundreds of engine compartments and getting discouraged we did some Research and found an easy way to find one and tell them apart.

The LQ4 has a lower compression ratio which is better for a forced induction application.

Anyhow I found an easy way to determine if the engine is an LQ4 or an LQ9 by just looking at the Vin#


2004-2007 Chevrolet GM 364 6.0L OHV V8 VORTEC ENGINE
Vin "U". LQ4 Engines.
*2004-2007 Chevrolet Express
*2004-2007 GMC Savanna
*2004-2007 Chevrolet Silverado
*2004-2007 GMC Sierra
*2004-2007 Chevrolet Suburban
*2004-2007 GMC Yukon

2002-2006 Chevrolet GM 364 6.0L OHV V8 VORTEC ENGINE
Covers Vin "N" LQ9 Engines
*2002-2006 Cadillac Escalade
*2002-2006 Chevrolet Silverado
*2002-2006 GMC Sierra

this engine may have come in different years as well but you may not be able to locate them thru the vin like we did.

I hope this helps those of you who are looking for one of these and good hunting.
Click to expand...
 
Please forgive the ignorant question, but does a carb/s system work better now? Better reliability? I know it can look old school but is that look really worth all the work and expense? It looks like the intake air is the hot air from the engine bay - isn't that going backwards? I just don't get it?
 
like almost every other potential change you might make theres ways to duct cool outside airflow into the engine compartment to the carb or efi to limit the engine heat it absorbs in transit, your options are very limited if your looking at "over the counter options" but if you get a bit creative, and can fabricate ,and don,t mind actually thinking about what will be required and how to go about building it, especially if you can weld and form metal your options are vastly improved

related threads and links
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=8961&p=31945&hilit=corvette+hood+duct#p31945

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=444&p=35375&hilit=+dual+quads#p35375
 

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I don't get it either, I've been looking at these carb systems for LSx motors for 10 years and fail to see the point, it's cheaper, with better driveability and cold starting as well as mpg, with the efi, with power numbers roughly the same if the comparable performance components are used. I just don't see it.
 
I think its simply that use of carbs allow the old school look, and many of the older guys feel intimidated by computer controls and are hesitant to place any faith in reliance on sensors and injectors etc.
I understand both the more modern point of view and that of the older guys ..simply because theres still deep bloody visible scratch marks in the shop floor concrete where I was reluctantly dragged kicking and screaming into the world of EFI, MPFI computers and sensor controls, and only grudgingly eventually was forced into seeing some of the advantages,the more modern computer controlled fuel injection systems potentially had over the the older more familiar and comfortable world I grew up in , populated with carbs and mechanical fuel injection... I'm still amazed at the younger guys who depend almost totally on trouble codes and sensor data, who ignore basics like reading plugs,taking a compression test,doing a leak-down test, guys who don,t use a multi meter or use of a vacuum gauge, or a timing light or an infrared temp gun to verify what the engines doing, and guys that think that theres only one way to adjust valves or set an ignition or gap plugs
 
I was like you, hated the idea of efi, but reality set in about 20 years ago and I gave up and got on the train. :mrgreen:
 
theres power to be had from going carb on the ls... dependent mostly on the intake runner design more so than the fact that its carbed. as for why people wanna do it... well no high-pressure pumps, fuel return lines, fuel tank swaps--and no huge complicated piles of wiring, sensors, and electronic control units but yea as a stock upgrade the carb motors typically make 10 percent more hp to the wheels than a stock efi setup... but check this out...


http://www.superchevy.com/technical/eng ... ewall.html


when compared to a performance ls intake then the inverse is true. i can only imagine the difference between the single plane carb intake and the holley hi-ram being much like the difference between a single plane and tunnel ram on any car. efi or carb
 
If your serious drag racing , NMCA, CARBURATOR IS WAY TO GO NORMALLY ASPIRATED.
TAKE A HAND FABRICATED SHEET METAL EFI INTAKE THAT COSTS $5-10K TO MATCH POWER A RACING GRADE 4-BBL CARB CAN DELIVER.
650-1400 HP
 
i hear ya, and with SBC gen 1 and BBC youre right... but i just dont see a significant number of people building all out naturally aspirated gen iii/iv motors. everyone just throws a turbo on it or runs 500hp worth of nitrous or puts a blower or any combination of the 3. there are some race classes designed to allow small block chevy LS to compete in naturally aspirated trim but i havent really seen much movement in that direction when i walk through the pits or the street races.
 
I am leaning more & more toward Turbos these days Phil.
For simplicity & reliabilty. They just work.
No blown off supercharger belt.
Big Centrifugal blowes take up alot of room.
Service maintence headache.
Surprised really more LS Carb engines not more popular.
Gives a guy best if both. High tech longblock.
Old school simplicity.
 
how much power are you realistically looking to make? whats the budget look like? most good combos down here production motors with ported heads and intakes are between 450-550rwhp depending on displacement and cam. afermarket heads and valvetrain with a single plane or hi-ram setup you can push that further with some RPMs. run e-85 and go further still. stroker motors make more torque but the difference between an ls3 that you can get which is already 6.2L (basically a 383) and a 408 (6.6L) is negligible. LS7 would be nice but many many racers cracked the sleeves in that block and gone with a stroked out GM lsx block 454 or similar aftermarket blocks
 
Its pretty easy to push past 800 HP mark with Turbos today on a production Pontiac V8.
Stock cranks good to 800 HP.
455, 428, 400 blocks good to maybe 900 Hp.
Just I never pushed them that far up Phil.
Its hearsay on durability that high.
Could take it or blow apart.
Guys that have been sucessfull longterm I have witnessef use Billet Crower Cranks. $5k.
Indian Adventures block $5lk
Race aluminum heads $5-10k.
You get the picture.....$$$$&$$.
700 HP maybe.
 
The strongest factory blocks made were the 1963-65 389 .
Sonic check all at .300-.400 wall thickness.
Guys with Nitro drag rails & Pontiac V8 power use them old 389's.
They take it.
I have a 1964 389 put away. Took apart. Good shape.

I like 455 street torque.
 
Arniew Beswick told me a few tricks he used.
Nitro supercharged 421 power.
 
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